Why do Star Wars fans hate Star Trek so much?

[Big Cam]

Man I love topics like this one. From the above sampling of posts, and with the exception of 2, I think a majority of TRUE Star Wars AFOL'ers enjoy the Final Frontier from cockpit of the Millennium Falcon... or the bridge of a Star Destroyer as in my case! The two exception, one embracing the science of Roddenberry, the other not so much... Still, this leaves a clear consensus, in my opinion, that this stereotype is much to do about nothing. The latest installment of Star Trek left me bereft of only one thing... More! My only complaint... being that they should have gone small screen after relaunching the franchise. I stated this first, because I eat, breath, and spout Star Wars metaphors all the live long day. Heck... I am also a die hard Firefly and Battlestar nut... LOTR and Legend of the Seeker.

I think to understand the rift that may appear to be between these two giants of the Galaxy, one needs to acknowledge there greatest differences. Star Trek embraces a "scientific" aspect. Roddenberry sought to expand our personal knowledge, while incorporating his own type of moral motifs. Lucas embraced the legendary, more fanciful aspect, while presenting them in a space opera format. George's newer films focus more heavily on equipment, warfare, and back-story than on the mythos of a bygone Jedi order. Still, a much richer story theme inspired from myths and moralities from the past is presented between those giant letter scrawls. I guess... For me at least, the escape has become the more meaningful muse, as the sciences can only ever be as good as the scientist whom discover them... Some theories die a "vi-o-lent deth", some go on to change our understanding of the cosmos... I happen to be a big proponent of the ion drive technologies NASA and other space agencies are developing for perhaps, one day, leave on our own sojourns towards galactic epics.

Where you talking about my post number 2?? Or just 2 posts in general?

I love Star Wars, and just mildly appreciate Star Trek.

[The Crazy One]

Star Trek in my opinion is awful. I respected the latest film, but anything before that just doesn't have the same quality of SW.

[Batbrick]

Star Trek in my opinion is awful. I respected the latest film, but anything before that just doesn't have the same quality of SW.

I think you underestimate just how pulpy StarWars is. For one, it is one of the most unoriginal movies there is in terms of story and characters, even for its time. It has some awkward dialogue in places, and don't get me started on that Leia twist, yeah right Lucas, I'm sure you had that planned all along. Not to mention the massive amount of coincidences.

I'm not bashing Star Wars, I love it, it's so good because it does all the retro style and all the cliches so well, it is almost the perfect pulp film. All I'm saying is that while Star Wars may be great, let's not look at it through rose-tinted glasses here, it's not entirely original.

Batbrick Away!

[Tereglith]

If you're looking at SW from a storyline point of view, Lucas deliberately took EVERY STINKIN' MYTHIC ARCHETYPE OUT THERE and mashed them all together. Where SW's originality comes in is the idea of a "used universe". Before Star Wars came along, popular (And I use popular the same way as Popular Mechanics) science fiction amounted to, well, ST:TOS, which is all clean lines, shiny spaceships, and blocky, un-messed up tricorders. Really, the reason that everyone liked Star Wars was because of the greebles, and because of how unoriginal the storyline was. Luke, Obi-wan, Han, Chewie, R2, Vader, Palpatine, Yoda, all of them are ripped right off of a list of character archetypes and put into a science fiction story. And the reason that those characters and events are archetypes is because that basic storyline is so appealing.

I myself like both Star Trek and Star Wars very much (despite the fact that ST:TOS had no special effects budget whatsoever, and even despite the fact that Jake Lloyd can't act worth a pile of Bantha poodoo). But it's in very different ways. ST is hard SF, complete with ideas and science. SW is a self-professed science fantasy, which has the sole purpose of making the ancient archetypes appealing to the modern viewer. And lightsaber fights are totall kick-megablocks.

(If anyone would like me to, I can ramble on about archetypes all day. I have the curse of being the son of two English teachers)

EDIT: I forgot to add. I utterly hate and despise SW:CW with a passion. I hate it more than 4Juniors sets. I hate it more than Megablocks. I even hate it a bit more than clone brands. It's just... geurgh......

Also, the new Star Trek movie was actually Star Wars, complete with blasters, a bar full of aliens, nonsensical relationships, a farmboy protagonist without a father, a giant ship that can destroy planets, an encounter with an awful creature on an ice planet, and gaping plot holes.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Tereglith

[M. Lupin]

I dislike both, but hate Star Trek slightly more. It's mainly the fact that it's a TV show that there's way to many episodes of. Nothing ever happens in TV shows that have 10+* seasons, IMO. I haven't seen of very large amount of Star Trek eps, so I could be wrong. I've watched the latest Star Trek movie and am watching the Clones Wars. Off topic, but the few Doctor Who episodes I've seen I like.

I'm not much of a sci-fi guy at all. In general, I like to watch a few episodes of those TV shows that have been going on forever and stop, with a few exceptions

*I know that most of the series aren't 10 seasons long, but in total there's a million+.

[The Crazy One]

I think you underestimate just how pulpy StarWars is. For one, it is one of the most unoriginal movies there is in terms of story and characters, even for its time. It has some awkward dialogue in places, and don't get me started on that Leia twist, yeah right Lucas, I'm sure you had that planned all along. Not to mention the massive amount of coincidences.

I'm not bashing Star Wars, I love it, it's so good because it does all the retro style and all the cliches so well, it is almost the perfect pulp film. All I'm saying is that while Star Wars may be great, let's not look at it through rose-tinted glasses here, it's not entirely original.

Batbrick Away!

I wasn't having a go at ST's story, just that's it doesn't have that epicness factor that SW does.

[Batbrick]

I wasn't having a go at ST's story, just that's it doesn't have that epicness factor that SW does.

I'd say personally that epicness is a pretty poor scaling system. Firefly is considered on of the best sci-fi anything out there, and the only epicness it has is in the movie, and even then it doesn't reach the scale of Star Wars. If you're going for epicness the recent Doctor Who finale had the destruction of all reality imminent, but the story was a mess, deus ex machinas were present everywhere, characters appeared for no reason, plotholes abound and bad characterisation was at a critical level.

Blade Runner is another movie that is considered a sci-fi classic, even a masterpiece, there's not much "epicness" in that either.

And total agreement Tereglith, I could rant on for centuries about all the archetypes Star Wars used. Even Vader, considered one of the greatest villains of all time, is pretty standard as a character, and the prequel trilogy fails to develop him.

And although all those other things were much like Star Wars, I would very much argue against the planet destroying ship and blasters, they're both staples of science fiction that existed before and after Star Wars, it'd be like claiming Mission Impossible was a ripoff of James Bond because they both had top secret spy missions and pistols.

Batbrick Away!

[5150 Lego]

You are in fact doing just what you said. Generalizing.

All Star Wars fans don't hate Star Trek, you are just feeding the stereotype which adds fuel to this imaginary fire.

I watched Star Trek for years as a kid and then ten years later I discovered Star Wars, there is still a place in my hear for Star Trek, but the new stuff just isn't as good as the Next Generation was IMO.

It's thoughts like this and discussions started like this that just keep this stereotype going.

Hmm... Hate is a pretty strong word. So i wouldn't use that to describe the feeling some SW fans have towards ST. But I'd have to disagree with Big Cam in the way many SW fans feel about ST in general. After a weekend of visiting comic book stores in an effort to find anime comic books for my niece, I've found that many of the "hard core" SW fans seem to have a dislike for Roddenberry's universe. I'm not saying that all do, but it seemed that every time there we ran into a SW fan, they were trying in one way or another to prove that there universe was super to the other. Funny thing is they couldn't give any legitimate reason why one was better than the other.

But I don't see why Star Wars fans would hate Star Trek fans when Star Wars has a much bigger fanbase. There have been 726 Star Trek episodes and they are obviously running out of ideas. But there has been 7 movies and few series. Star Wars has much more room and chance to make some Episodes and Series about past wars, e.g. Mandalorian Wars, Great Sith War.

I think one of the main reasons SW is getting a bigger fan base is they still have the enterst of kids. I believe that both are running out of idea's. There's only so many "Star Wars" you can have. Even if you change species and planets. But for kids, especially ones that are not familiar with the original movies, its much easier to grab there attention. Like you said, ST has always been more of an adult sci-fi than SW ever was. Without any stores to interest a younger audience it will continue to be overshadowed.

I think you underestimate just how pulpy StarWars is. For one, it is one of the most unoriginal movies there is in terms of story and characters, even for its time. It has some awkward dialogue in places, and don't get me started on that Leia twist, yeah right Lucas, I'm sure you had that planned all along. Not to mention the massive amount of coincidences.

Batbrick Away!

I think the main thing that made SW as popular as it was, was the animation; Or lack-there-of. Using real models and costumes added to the realism and the whole look and feel was decades ahead of its time. This is proven when the "prequel"moves came out. Heck, even more so when the original trilogy was re-released with Jabba the hut and his gang in full animation. Looked incredibly fake and really took away from one of the things that made film as good as they were.. As you pointed out, the story/plot/dialogue were all unoriginal, so when the realism of the ships and alien characters were lost to CGI, SW 1,2,and 3 were just run of the mill Sci-fi movies that were nothing special.

I'd say personally that epicness is a pretty poor scaling system. Batbrick Away!

I'd agree with this. Especially when "epicness" is pretty subjective.

[Forresto]

personally I love both sides. To me I go to Star Wars for the action andd plots, and to Star Trek usually for it's more "intelligent" sci-fi. Not to say Star Wars is unintelligent it's just has more action and Trek relies more on the sciences and stories it has. Long live TrekKies and Warsies

[JimBee]

I love Star Wars, I've probably watched the movies about 20 times each, but I certainly don't hate Star Trek. In all honesty, I've only seen a bit of an old movie and the trailers from the new one, and all other info that I know about it is from what I hear. I'm renting the new one when it's out on DVD though.

I would've tried to see some old episodes or movies, but the thing that I think scared me off was the special effects. Seeing a stop-motion action scene of an alien stiff... too retro for me.

I think I might be one of the few who likes SW, and really hates Star Trek. IMO, it is too Sci-Fi-ish.

I just think in the series they really over do all the technical talk. I don't understand what an inter-steller-romula-drive is! But yeh, the latest movie and the Next Generation series were both good. The ones in between, not so.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Don't even start- SW has plenty of nerd Sci-Fi talk.

"I don't want this to turn into another wild bantha chase"

"Master, the hyperdrive reactor is leaking, so we must land on Tatooine to refuel!" "But the Hutts are gangsters!"

"Parsec... Lightspeed... AT-TE...."

Now since you know what these mean, they aren't strange, but a person who's never/ barely seen SW will probably have the same reaction that you did with ST.

[The Crazy One]

I'd say personally that epicness is a pretty poor scaling system.

Okay, firstly, I wasn't comparing Star Wars with anything else, other than Star Trek.

I didn't say that Star Wars was better that Bladerunner, Doctor Who, Firefly etc. because of it's epicness, I was saying I prefer Star Wars the Star Trek, because Star Wars is epic.

I actually love Doctor Who and Firefly ( not to sure about Blade Runner ), but I would never say they are better or worse that Star Wars, as Star Wars isn't about one person time travelling, the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek isn't as vast, and that is the topic title isn't it?

Also, Star Wars may not be original, but it was one of the most visually changing films of it's time, Star Trek never had such an impact.

[Batbrick]

Okay, firstly, I wasn't comparing Star Wars with anything else, other than Star Trek.

See, I think I understand that oyu just didn't voice yourself very well before. Instead of saying "In my opinion Star trek is awful" you must have really meant "I can't watch Star Trek", since by your own admission your opinion is based on preference as opposed to objective assessment which I thought you were employing by calling Star Trek "awful".

If this is true my apologies, as I thought you were attacking a show for the sole reason of not measuring up to another with different appeals, when (atleast I think) you meant that it was unwatchable to you by matter of Star Wars being more "your thing", hence why comparisons with other sci-fi shows/films was unnecessary.

Boy I hope this was true or I'm gonna feel quite embarrassed.

Batbrick Away!

[hollisbrick]

"In my opinion" I think ST is lame, and also really nerdy..

Yet I think that SW is one of the coolest things ever...

Maybe it's just me

[Batbrick]

"In my opinion" I think ST is lame, and also really nerdy..

Yet I think that SW is one of the coolest things ever...

Maybe it's just me

Ha, hypocritical humour; I love the self-confessed irony of a big Star Wars fan thinking Star Trek is nerdy

Personally, I think Firefly is better than both of them.

Batbrick Away!

[The Crazy One]

See, I think I understand that oyu just didn't voice yourself very well before. Instead of saying "In my opinion Star trek is awful" you must have really meant "I can't watch Star Trek", since by your own admission your opinion is based on preference as opposed to objective assessment which I thought you were employing by calling Star Trek "awful".

If this is true my apologies, as I thought you were attacking a show for the sole reason of not measuring up to another with different appeals, when (atleast I think) you meant that it was unwatchable to you by matter of Star Wars being more "your thing", hence why comparisons with other sci-fi shows/films was unnecessary.

Boy I hope this was true or I'm gonna feel quite embarrassed.

Batbrick Away!

No need to apologise my friend, I was unclear.

[Lego Wargammer]

Anyone here seen the movie "Fan Boys"

one of the subplots fit in with the OP in this thread pretty well.

[hollisbrick]

Ha, hypocritical humour; I love the self-confessed irony of a big Star Wars fan thinking Star Trek is nerdy

Personally, I think Firefly is better than both of them.

Batbrick Away!

Ahaha yeehh...

[RepublicForces]

I think I might be one of the few who likes SW, and really hates Star Trek. IMO, it is too Sci-Fi-ish.

Amen!

[CommanderFox]

Well I personally don't like ST so Ive not really bothered to ever watch it.

I think SW is better! ST just is, as some have said to Sci-Fi-ish imo.

just my thoughts though...

CommanderFox

Edited November 24, 2009 by CommanderFox

[Ras 74]

I am one of those who always make fun of ST people and pretend to dislike people who thinks ST is good.

The truth is that I hardly have no idea what it is all about, and have hardly seen anything of it.

The things I have seen have not really got me interested to see more of it. But I have said to my self that

I really will give it a fair shot just to see if I can like it or not. It will never grow on me as SW has done and

be a part of me as SW has done eighter. Even if I could enjoy ST one universe is enough for me.

I have seen Firefly and Battlestar, and I do like those shows as well, but it really is SW all the way for me.

[Hovertron]

I think the debate originated simply due to the similar names: STAR Trek, STAR Wars. It's fanboy nature to compare something so similar. Another factor would be the contrasting views the two fandoms show in regard to space. In the 60s, the future in space was viewed as clean and sterile, as portrayed in Star Trek. Star Wars came along and changed that with its grungy ships and all-around dirty atmosphere. It changed the view of the future, as shown by many films that followed. The rivalry built upon itself, eventually becoming what it is today.

Personally, I love both. I was raised on The Next Generation, and I loved Star Wars as a kid. Liking one doesn't mean you have to dislike the other, despite stereotypes.

[legomucsles]

Actually i never liked Star Trek but loved the movie.The reason is probally that they want to stay loyal to Star Wars.

[def]

Born in 1975, I hated Star Trek. I loved loved loved Star Wars. I saw Star Trek 2 in the theater, around age 7, and it was just too young. An age 11 birthday party showing of Star Trek 1 didn't help things. By the late 80's I could get into Star Trek:TNG, but grudgingly.

As lots on this thread ask, do Star Wars fans hate Star Trek, much less so much? I don't think so. In the 30 years since Star Wars came out, most of the Star Wars fanboys grew up and it stopped being an either/or thing. At least it did for me, and I was the most serious fanboy of all the people I know.

[Henning M.]

Hi

In my humble oppinion the two series are very different and targeted at completely different audiences. Nevertheless I like both for giving a lot of inspiration to layouts and MOC's. It is funny that as far as I can see /read none have made a refference to Battlestar Galactica? It is very corny in my oppinion but also give thought for some very interresting MOC's.

As I am new here I hope that i do not step on anybody's toes, with this comment.

Best regards Henning M.

[legotrainfan]

I was first acquainted with Star Trek by watching the Original Series. As a little boy, I sometimes found them quite scary. *lol* Later I got in touch with The Next Generation and Star Wars. I never liked Star Wars so much, because I didn't understand them. These were the movies with Harrision Ford and I had no idea what they were all about. The Stars Wars movies that were filmed later interested me much more; they made me understand everything, especially the episode in which Anakin turns into Darth Vader. The movies with Portman and Christensen starring in them changed my opinion.

Anyway, Star Wars is a fairy tale. Just think of the beginning: In a faraway galaxy long before our time. (Don't criticise me for not mentioning the exact quote. I'm not being precise now, I know.) It is like saying once upon a time. It's all as it is in a fairy tale, especially Darth Vader who even does something good at the end and helps Luke.

Star Trek wants to depict the future and not the past. It wants to depict a future in which there are no wars on Earth anymore and governments have moved closely together to build space ships for space exploration. This starting point is very idealistic. It tells people that they can hope for a brighter future. This theme plays with people's hopes. There are no conflicts on our planet any more.

Summarising, there are two different approaches: sci-fi fairy tale set in the past vs. idealistic sci-fi future. These are two opposing poles. You'd remain on the surface of the problem if you simply said both was science fiction.

As for my part, I like both but would go for Star Trek if I had to choose. This is because of my childhood memories: I didn't understand SW too well without the newer films.

It is funny that as far as I can see /read none have made a refference to Battlestar Galactica?

While I was reading several posts in this thread, I was thinking of Babylon 5 all the time. No one has thought of Babylon 5 in this discussion. I have watched some episodes of it, but it couldn't consistently appeal to me. But it wasn't bad either. Battlestar Galactica is also sci-fi that I enjoy. Talking as if SW and ST are the only and only good sci-fi shows is a pity.