Yuppley Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Unwanted elements? I can soo imagine a girl with a moustache, beard, and scars... or maybe not. Quote
WesternOutlaw Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 I believe in a very free market when it comes to corporations, and as part of this, toy companies should be allowed to make what they think will sell (but I do believe in corporate responsibility). For example, Playmobil is one of few toy companies that make Christian toys (like Noah's Arc, Christmas/nativity sets, and angels). I applaud a company that does this against pressure to be "politically correct" and not offend anyone. As indicated, I believe Lego has done research and proven that female mini-figs aren't too popular with 10 year old boys (or age group they market too). It's not discriminatory, but a marketing decision that makes sense. Now that I'm older and wiser, I would probably agree with you that I'd like to see more female figs in sets (mainly for my train/city displays) where groups of different people look good. I'm still not particularly fond of the pink bricks in Paradisia, but I like some of the sets (like Dolphin Point lighthouse). In any case, these are toys we're talking about and when I hear the word discrimination used because Lego doesn't make more female figs for a predominantly male market, I have to disagree. I completely agree with you in regard to the use of yellow faces though. Not only for the reasons you mentioned, but I think they look better than flesh colored. But the different faces (beards, female lips, etc. add a nice degree of detail that I do like). Quote
snefroe Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 I believe in a very free market when it comes to corporations, and as part of this, toy companies should be allowed to make what they think will sell (but I do believe in corporate responsibility). For example, Playmobil is one of few toy companies that make Christian toys (like Noah's Arc, Christmas/nativity sets, and angels). I applaud a company that does this against pressure to be "politically correct" and not offend anyone. As indicated, I believe Lego has done research and proven that female mini-figs aren't too popular with 10 year old boys (or age group they market too). It's not discriminatory, but a marketing decision that makes sense. Now that I'm older and wiser, I would probably agree with you that I'd like to see more female figs in sets (mainly for my train/city displays) where groups of different people look good. I'm still not particularly fond of the pink bricks in Paradisia, but I like some of the sets (like Dolphin Point lighthouse). In any case, these are toys we're talking about and when I hear the word discrimination used because Lego doesn't make more female figs for a predominantly male market, I have to disagree. I completely agree with you in regard to the use of yellow faces though. Not only for the reasons you mentioned, but I think they look better than flesh colored. But the different faces (beards, female lips, etc. add a nice degree of detail that I do like). i don't think producing a christian product has anything to do with being responsable as a company toward society. Playmobil produces these christian sets because they want to make money on sentiment and religion, like so many other companies. nothing more 1) i'd like to see that research report that states it's good for business NOT to produce girls and women. After all, the argument here is that boys prefer to play with male MF's, that doesn't prohibit lego from producing sets with male and female MF's... I don't believe sales will decrease because of a female MF in a set. especially with lego, where all MF-parts can easily be replaced. so the argument is rubbish! 2) but even if there's a commercial argument, i still think lego has a social obligation not to create artificial worlds based on "gender discrimination". sure it's not real discrimination, because we're not talking about real people, but the decision not to create female city MF's clearly exclude women from getting a job as construction worker, police officer, firefighter,... in the lego city. I think our minister for "equal opportunities between the sexes" would not be very happy with that. If they're just following commercial arguments, i'd say they're cowards... I'd say they ignore their responsabilities towards society... There's clearly a smell of sexism here... or at least a lack of courage... 3) i'm also wondering what the implications are in regard to the views and opinions of the boys that grow up with this type of lego world. Does this stimulate the view that only men deserve a good position in society? I'd like to know if there's an answer to this question in that research report as well. Quote
ImperialJohn Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 It all comes down to marketing! What sells - what dosn't. I tried to tell the designers to build/promote/sell city houses! And they would love to. But marketing said - no market :| Quote
WesternOutlaw Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 i don't think producing a christian product has anything to do with being responsable as a company toward society. Playmobil produces these christian sets because they want to make money on sentiment and religion, like so many other companies. nothing more I think you misunderstood my point here. I'm not saying that Playmobil is more responsible because they make Christian toys. I'm saying that I believe that a free market allows companies to make products that they think will sell. Playmobil is pursuing a market "niche" despite efforts to be "politically correct" and not show or talk about religion. In any case, let me ask you this question. Did you play with female Lego mini-figs or other female action figures when you were a little boy? If so, you were probably the exception. If not, you were a typical boy. Legos are in fact a predominantly male toy, and I can understand not having numerous female mini-figs in their sets. I don't think this discussion is an argument over equality for women and what positions/jobs women deserve in society; I simply see it as what little boys like to play with. Nothing more, nothing less, not discrimination, not opression, not sexism, not equal opportunity, etc. These are toys and children; and fortunately, children don't think of this, they just want to play and have fun. Quote
xwingyoda Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 All those long posts just for asking tLC for some hotties :P At least we'll have a spandex Catwoman hehe ;) *yoda* Quote
alexGS Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I'd like a few of her. *satis* Which probably gives rise to another viewpoint! LEGO is 'damned if they do and damned if they don't', in the sense that if they make hot-looking minifigs, that will be seen as 'exploiting' or 'stereotyping'! Someone will be saying that the only purpose of the 'girl' is a good-looking addition... I'm not saying they're right of course, but it must be hard for TLG not to put a foot wrong sometimes. Incidentally I recently noticed that there were no females in the Technic figures, either. Hello, by the way, I'm Alex and this is my first post here! I had a large-ish town layout 1984-94, not many sets after '91 though - mostly Technic - and a month or so back I decided to start collecting 12v train stuff again. Although I'm now 26, I don't see this as a reason not to get hold of those train sets I always wanted :) I live in Hamilton, New Zealand, and at the moment I work at a museum doing audiovisual installation/exhibitions construction etc. -Alex Quote
ApophisV Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I personally am really happy about some good looking females! For Bikini-Leia I already have seen so many cool uses and I think Catwoman will add perfectly! Actually I can see already a MOC involving Leia, Catwoman, a cellar room... erm... nevermind... :-$ Quote
xwingyoda Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Actually I can see already a MOC involving Leia, Catwoman, a cellar room... erm... nevermind... :-$ Hummm, a mud wrestling vig X-D :-P Can't wait ;-) ! *yoda* Quote
captaintau Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Interesting. Blends in with my posts on the Hospital thread. I think we could take this too seriously. Yeah, there's a question of sexism in not having female firefighters, police officers (note the gender neutrality in modern titles) and train drivers. But LEGO is a simple product, mainly intended for children. As I said in the hospital thread, I think for children you have to conform to a degree of stereotyping for children's sake. Bear in mind this is coming from a Nurse who happens to be a bloke. BTW, my other half is a land and building surveyor (a lady in a traditionally male-dominated profession). We're gonna have confused kids! My issue with the hospital was that you expect a Nurse in a hospital. Children would. And I want to see my professional represented. A Peeron search suggests there's never been a LEGO Nurse. What will be interesting is to see if LEGO alter with gender-roles in society. Did you know that 55% of new medical practioners ("Doctors") are female and the number of men Nursing is also rising exponentially (20% of new student Nurses are blokes). I have to say, these are 2002 figures, from when I graduated. They'd been on the increase for years and statistical extrapolation suggests that in there will be more men nursing than women in about 20 years (and won't the NHS be better off for it!). I have no idea how many police officers are ladies at the moment, but that seems to be increasing. The numbers of ladies in the building trade (like surveyors) is also increasing. When you can't (yet) do headwear over hair, occupations and genders will, I think, have to be more simply set by LEGO design. Maybe this is a new task for LEGO designers for future years: hair with studs. Yeah, we could probably do with more FFs (not MFs). Certainly Star Wars could do with more Leia's, Padme's and a Mon Mothma and Aayla Secura. And Batman could do with Batgirl (though its already got Catwoman and Poison Ivy - that's pretty good going). More ladies in towns etc. But as I say, lets not take it too seriously. And we already have ethnic MFs - Mace Windu! Quote
snefroe Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 lego has had several sets with female nurses or doctors in the past: 6309;6301;606-1;6629-1; 6380;6364;6523 the position of lego to build a lego society with lego sets but with as few women as possible for commercial reasons shouldn't be accepted at all. they should even be condemned for it by women's organisations. No doubt, some bad press would do far more about this then yet another topic on EB, unfortunately... giving children certain "stereotypes" like nurse-woman, surveyor-man is in my point of view completely unnecessary.in fact, it's the other way around: we need to teach our children that everybody (male-female; black-white) is equal and has the right to take on any education he/she wants. the fact that we still have these stereotypical elements in our society is badly enough! Quote
xenologer Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 We indeed do need female MFs !!!! (unless you're recreating a SF style :D :P ).One good point is that a classic smiling female MF is included in the new Deluxe Starter Set :oD Lets hop its a trend there !!!! Check the set here !! *yoda* Looks like she comes with 2 boyfriends. lucky girl... ;-) well.... its a good way to get a femfig.... but the 2 to 1 ratio is still unfair that particular set is not availble in my country, at my local TRU tho I did see similar 'basic buckets' the 10$ one came with 1 male minifig, the 20$ one had 1 male and 1 female. outnumbered, and more expensive :-( P.S. I was looking through peeron.com for female minifig heads availability, and ran into this. Woman's Football Team 6 femfigs in one set! Now where can I get one.... Quote
Echo Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 P.S. I was looking through peeron.com for female minifig heads availability, and ran into this.Woman's Football Team 6 femfigs in one set! Now where can I get one.... Bricklink search results. Pretty cheap. Quote
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