2010 Train Sets

[cagri]

LEGO now admits that the Train theme is for adults, then why did they get rid of 9V Trains? Does LEGO even think before they do something?

If I remember right, it all started with a broken mold for the 9V tracks. It turned out to be too expensive to replace it and keep producing old rails. They switched to all plastic ones for cheaper sets.

[The Green Brick Giant]

If I remember right, it all started with a broken mold for the 9V tracks. It turned out to be too expensive to replace it and keep producing old rails. They switched to all plastic ones for cheaper sets.

But that's just a LEGO lie.

The tracks are cheaper now because there are no metal pieces, however the mold is the same. Plus it's not any cheaper when it's still $16 for 8 pieces of straight track. Nothing became cheaper, all LEGO did was piss off AFOLs, and chrildren can't afford the trains.

[DaCheese]

I apologise for constantly bringing this up, but if Lego want better sales from Trains products, they need to push them a bit more. Expand the range and actually market it. Like I've also said before, with enough parts in the box a single kit could allow several coach types to be built for the Emerald Night. I'm sure a lot of people would consider the models available in such a kit to be "very specific and appealing" as Jamie put it, and taking a purely selfish viewpoint I'd happily sacrifice a Star Wars model for this. After all, we were given what is I'm led to believe the most powerful Lego locomotive for years and years...but nothing for it to pull.

I could of course build my own coaches and this has crossed my mind. Unfortunately the rarest parts used for the coach, such as the windows, aren't available on DesignbyMe in the more common colours, let alone brown chocolate and tan cream! I realise I could use BrickLink, but don't really want to do so. It doesn't make sense for me to buy several more complete 10194 boxes either. This is probably what Lego want us to do but who really wants or has space for another four or so identical engines?

[jonwil]

In addition to the cost savings of plastic track vs metal track, the other reason for the switch to battery powered trains is that there are safety issues (either real or perceived by parents) for toys that plug into the wall for smaller kids so by being battery powered it allows them to market to younger kids than is the case for trains that plug into the wall

[Matt Dawson]

Lego trains have never sold well - and it's not Lego Company's fault (though tbf it partly is - see later in post). Neither is it the AFOLs.

It's the retailers, who insist on never purchasing ANY train sets or wagons - many people would buy them because there isn't any other MOVING item in the City range (i.e. moves on it's own).

It doesn't help that Lego left the train line to rot like old wagons, then blame US (not the country) for poor sales! Look at the 1991 era - plenty of seperate wagons, track etc. to keep adults and child alike buying to expand their collection - "We can buy Timmy a train set for christmas and then he can buy extra wagons or track when he wants - and we can buy him them for his birthday too". Not any more.

Lego needs to realise that AFOLs WILL buy the 'kiddies' sets - because they SHOULD be cheap enough for us to buy, then customise. That's what being a AFOL is partly about - buying a set then detailing it/tweaking it so it'll look/perform better.

[moratjon]

The Lego company needs to market Lego train sets beyond simply the online Lego store if it wants to make any headway in sales. I'm sure you've all spoken to many people over the years, including model train fans, who've expressed surprise that Lego even made train sets - and that was when the train sets were at their height! With the Lego exclusives tucked away on the shop website or marketed only to the pre-existing toy shop outlets, no wonder no-one is buying them! It's inevitable that the line will die out if they continue to force customers to do all the hard work. I'd love to buy more carriages for Emerald Night!

[Davey]

But that's just a LEGO lie.

The tracks are cheaper now because there are no metal pieces, however the mold is the same. Plus it's not any cheaper when it's still $16 for 8 pieces of straight track. Nothing became cheaper, all LEGO did was piss off AFOLs, and chrildren can't afford the trains.

Actually...it's not a lie. It's just slightly incorrect. The actual issue was not the mold that molded the plastic portion of the track. It was the machine that crimped the metal rails to the plastic track. That was the machine that broke and the one that was deemed to expensive to fix.

Now, as for the new sets. We know they will be PF as the RC line has been discontinued. As to whether they will use gearing (ala Emerald Night) or the PF Train motor remains to be seen. Either way, I would urge all of you to support the line regardless. You have to look at the Train sets as a 'box of elements'. I recently purchased the RC Cargo Train because it came with a number of rare elements in rare colors that are useful for building trains. I built the set per the instructions, played with it a bit to see what it was like, and now I will be tearing it down and MOC-ing it. For me....that's what LEGO Trains are about. The MOC are (90% of the time) going to be way cooler than what LEGO produces. That's what made the Hobby Train so awesome! It was a box of 'train specific' elements for MOC-ing.

As for people not wanting to buy multiple Emerald Night's to get additional coaches. Why is this??? The price/element ratio for that set is <$0.10/piece and it comes with almost exclusively rare colors!!! What other set gives you that much Dark Green???? Plus...you get MORE STEAM WHEELS. I bought five or six of the Emerald Night, built one engine, four coaches, and parted the rest into my collection. My wife is now using a lot of the pieces in her MOC's to add a splash of rare color. Yes, I know to get a train with an engine and five coaches, you will spend $500...but look at how expensive model railroading is. We actually get off pretty cheap.

Finally, I'm going to rant a bit here regarding the LEGO Train Community. I said this to the round-table at Brickworld and I will say it here. I love you guys and you're all my friends...but 9V is dead and it's not coming back. Deal with it. Move on. No amount of complaining or pining for it will bring it back. If you want to stay all 9V on your layout...by all means do it, but understand it will be expensive and you are running a system no longer supported. If you're just getting into trains, I suggest you jump in to PF with both feet. There is a LOT of flexibility in that system if we all start being creative. I guess I'm just tired of the community bashing LEGO for making a decision that helped them remain profitable in a time when they were in financial turmoil. It was something that had to be done. Yes, I miss the 9V stuff...but aside from the motor and track...everything else is the same with PF trains. And we've demonstrated that the new PF trains can EASILY pull as much (actually MORE) than the old 9V system if the train is designed properly. The system isn't as bad as everyone thinks.

LEGO Trains will always be a small portion of TLG's business. I'd love to see them grow in popularity, but I'm being realistic. It's up to us in the Train community to take the elements that LEGO gives us and build the amazing creations we desire.

I'll name drop here a little: John Neal, Cale Leiphart, Tony Sava, Mark Bellis, Swoofty, Scott Wardlaw, Brian Williams, Holger Matthes, Tim Gould, and others I'm forgetting. All of these people are pushing the boundaries of LEGO Trains without needing sets to necessarily be released. They are all building amazing MOC's that are an inspiration to the community.

Check out the Flickr LEGO Train Pool...you won't be sorry. Do we really need sets? No...I think we just need elements and a good dose of creativity.

-Dave

[eti]

I just can't really believe that separate passenger cars aren't profitable. They tend to be very expensive seenig the number of parts (not so many) and special parts (just the train bottom, couplings and wheels - for the rest it's bricks, doors and windows...) that are needed for it. Even if retailers tend to not put them on the shelves, they would do great with online sales (hey, it would be nice to find a train car coupon in a complete train set!) and they would make great value packs (and retailers do put value pack on the shelves - or rather, on the ground because they won't fit the shelves...)

[Cooper]

As for people not wanting to buy multiple Emerald Night's to get additional coaches. Why is this??? The price/element ratio for that set is <$0.10/piece and it comes with almost exclusively rare colors!!! What other set gives you that much Dark Green???? Plus...you get MORE STEAM WHEELS. I bought five or six of the Emerald Night, built one engine, four coaches, and parted the rest into my collection.

I'm in agreement with most of what you have posted above (I came in with PF, so I don't have experience with the 9V part).

I did want to specifically comment on your point about the Emerald Night. I completely agree. It's actually a good deal especially when you start looking at it as $100 worth of directly applicable train parts (8 sets of train wheels, 4 flanged and 2 blind drivers, 6 train wheels, 5 regular buffers, 10 large tan train windows and glass, 4 small tan train windows and glass, a bunch of light grey curved slopes, and that's even before you get to the dark green and dark brown elements). Honestly, not a bad deal for parts that are all completely useful for train MOCs. I have purchased at least a few extra EN sets as parts packs. Between that and hitting up bricklink to purchase more EN parts, I now have a complete PF based train that I'm really pleased with (for one it actually looks like a train, unlike the EN).

That said, I understand that buying multiple $100 sets is not a very realistic option for the KFOLs out there that are train fans (or would be if it were a little more approachable from a cost perspective for their non-AFOL parents). Hopefully these 2010 offerings will help address that.

[Davey]

I'm in agreement with most of what you have posted above (I came in with PF, so I don't have experience with the 9V part).

That said, I understand that buying multiple $100 sets is not a very realistic option for the KFOLs out there that are train fans (or would be if it were a little more approachable from a cost perspective for their non-AFOL parents). Hopefully these 2010 offerings will help address that.

Cooper:

Yes! I agree 100%. I was looking at it more from an AFOL stand-point, but agree that the KFOL's do kinda get the 'short end of the stick' with the EN. But as you say, I imagine the 2010 sets will address this and bridge the gap (so-to-speak).

-Dave

p.s. Your cab-forward train and coaches are absolutely GORGEOUS!!!! I them! Excellent work there.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Cyclone Breezerider

[Duq]

I don't see why LEGO needs a "limited number of sets" they make like 3 times as many things now than 15 years ago. Just make a few LEGO.com exclusive sets and shut the hell up.

Exactly. You don't know. There's more to it than just 'add another set to the range'. There's all sorts of overhead costs and marketing reasons behind those decisions that we here on the outside have no idea about.

In addition to the cost savings of plastic track vs metal track, the other reason for the switch to battery powered trains is that there are safety issues (either real or perceived by parents) for toys that plug into the wall for smaller kids so by being battery powered it allows them to market to younger kids than is the case for trains that plug into the wall

Almost correct. It's not about perceived safety issues, it's safety rules (US as far as I know). But you're right about being able to market to younger kids with the batteries.

<rant>

Phew. Good to see someone with a bit of common sense...

;-)

Now for some cold hard facts. Yes, Lego trains are cool and every kid should have one. Now think back to your childhood. How many of your friends had Lego? How many of them had a Lego train? How many of them had more than one? For those of you that are old enough now answer the same questions for your childs friends. Get the point?

Lego are obviously marketing trains at two different groups now: children and adults. The RC trains (a passenger train and a freight train) were aimed at children, the Emerald Night is aimed at adults. There's no way they can do two systems so for the adults there's two options: no trains or battery trains. Like Cyclone said: 9V is gone and it ain't comin' back.

Finally, Lego may be a family-friendly, family-owned business that we all love, but it's still a business, not a charity. If you want Lego to continue producing AFOL train sets there's only one way to convince them and that's by using your wallet. Even if the Emerald Night is not the train you always dreamed of, buy one. If you can afford it, buy two. If you want a longer train, buy three (and if you don't know what to do with the extra engines just put them on Bricklink).

[jonwil]

I'm in agreement with most of what you have posted above (I came in with PF, so I don't have experience with the 9V part).

I did want to specifically comment on your point about the Emerald Night. I completely agree. It's actually a good deal especially when you start looking at it as $100 worth of directly applicable train parts (8 sets of train wheels, 4 flanged and 2 blind drivers, 6 train wheels, 5 regular buffers, 10 large tan train windows and glass, 4 small tan train windows and glass, a bunch of light grey curved slopes, and that's even before you get to the dark green and dark brown elements). Honestly, not a bad deal for parts that are all completely useful for train MOCs. I have purchased at least a few extra EN sets as parts packs. Between that and hitting up bricklink to purchase more EN parts, I now have a complete PF based train that I'm really pleased with (for one it actually looks like a train, unlike the EN).

That said, I understand that buying multiple $100 sets is not a very realistic option for the KFOLs out there that are train fans (or would be if it were a little more approachable from a cost perspective for their non-AFOL parents). Hopefully these 2010 offerings will help address that.

I concur, the Emerald Night is the BEST train set ever IMO and I hope that by buying one I have helped ensure that its not the last AFOL train set LEGO produces.

[Svelte]

I concur, the Emerald Night is the BEST train set ever IMO and I hope that by buying one I have helped ensure that its not the last AFOL train set LEGO produces.

Yes. I loved the old 10173 Holiday Train, for example, which was one of the more recent Trains aimed at AFOLS, but it's looking very rough around the edges compared to the sleek and superior Emerald Night

[Piranha]

The Lego company needs to market Lego train sets beyond simply the online Lego store if it wants to make any headway in sales.

Very True!! They need to expand from beyond LSAH and LEGO Stores. This is something that has become new as I think 10 years ago or so LEGO Trains could be found at any Retail Shop (Target, Walmart), This would drive up sales as Trains are now easir to find for the average person who walks into the LEGO isle and says "Oh a LEGO Train" "Cool". Over having to look online and make inquires to whether or not LEGO even makes trains! Sure its easy for us because we know everything about everything when it comes to LEGO

A branching out to all stores would be a smart move for LEGO to do, for Trains.

Also consider selling the PF at LEGO store in a pack for trains or include them in the set, or invent a new way

[The Green Brick Giant]

Very True!! They need to expand from beyond LSAH and LEGO Stores. This is something that has become new as I think 10 years ago or so LEGO Trains could be found at any Retail Shop (Target, Walmart),

I bought my first LEGO Train in 2003. It was that ugly blue, white, and black set from 1999 I think. I hate the set. However it was $50, plus $10 for shipping and $3 for tax... BS tax...

So year LEGO Trains need to make a come back to stores.

[gambort]

If I remember right, it all started with a broken mold for the 9V tracks. It turned out to be too expensive to replace it and keep producing old rails. They switched to all plastic ones for cheaper sets.

That isn't quite true but the basic idea is right. Decisions had to be made about continuing to manufacture metal tracks given an increase in cose. The modern track is, in fact, about one quarter of the price of what metal track would have been had it been continued.

But that's just a LEGO lie.

The tracks are cheaper now because there are no metal pieces, however the mold is the same. Plus it's not any cheaper when it's still $16 for 8 pieces of straight track. Nothing became cheaper, all LEGO did was piss off AFOLs, and chrildren can't afford the trains.

Being condescending and wrong at the same time isn't a good look. It is clear to anyone who bothers to look that the track moulds are quite different. The metal goes over a skinnier rail, the joins at the end are fiddly and it is generally different in various ways. It is also obvious that it is much more expensive to make.

Tim

PS. Page 3 of this thread has many pleasing comments. Thanks to all the people that can see that creativity is alive and well in PFS trains and that dealing with the change is the best way forward.

[Helmantel]

Does anybody know if the current RC trains have been succesful? Here in Sweden, the bigger shops usually have them.

Who knows, if the new trains are a success, there may be all kinds of nice extras for it (cars, goods stations etc.). I think that the last time Lego offered a lot of train stuff in the early 2000's (Train shed, MOT line, etc.) also coincided with the financial trouble of the company. I don't know if poor train sales were a big part of the problem, but they probably weren't the money making line. That may explain the reluctance of introducing new train sets.

It would be nice to see what the new trains will look like. Hopefully it's appealling to adults too. After all, it's much easier to convince parents to buy a train if they like it as much as their kids :)

[Siegfried]

-snip-

I couldn't pick a part to focus on so I'll just snip the lot! All I can say is that I agree 100%!

I did a test with the EN and I ran out of cars!

The

in that link is great too!

[Thrawnseg]

Very True!! They need to expand from beyond LSAH and LEGO Stores. This is something that has become new as I think 10 years ago or so LEGO Trains could be found at any Retail Shop (Target, Walmart), This would drive up sales as Trains are now easir to find for the average person who walks into the LEGO isle and says "Oh a LEGO Train" "Cool". Over having to look online and make inquires to whether or not LEGO even makes trains! Sure its easy for us because we know everything about everything when it comes to LEGO

In the US, LEGO trains are in the big stores such Toy R US. They sell out quickly though, so you can never find them. :(

[Davey]

In the US, LEGO trains are in the big stores such Toy R US. They sell out quickly though, so you can never find them. :(

I was just going to mention this! A couple weeks back I was at TRU and purchased the R/C Cargo Train with a 20%-off coupon. At the time, they had 5 or 6 of this set sitting on the shelf. When I went back this past Friday, they were all sold out. So, they aren't lasting more than 1-2 weeks on the shelves. That bodes well for the upcoming sets I imagine.

-Dave

[brickzone]

The two RC Train sets are always kept fully stocked* at Smyth's Toys here in Ireland, and they also had the straights/curves and crossover points set. I'd really like to get the Goods train despite being less than enthusiastic about the RC battery box - but I prefer to spend the €100+ amounts on Lego exclusives (this year I also had to skip Trolls Mountain Fortress and the Indy Temple of Doom set). I did buy my RC track for holiday/hobby trains at Smyth's.

Not exactly related to System trains, but at least here in Ireland, Duplo trains seem to sell well, probably led by Thomas the Tank Engine. Art & Hobby restock Duplo trains pretty frequently*. So presumably kids are interested in trains in a general sense.

*Smyth's operates warehouse style toy stores, and they tend to keep the shelves full - so it is only extremely fast sellers you maybe sometimes see depleted stock (often restocked if you go back the next day).

*Art & Hobby are a chain of small mall/highstreet retail outlets, and the Lego is periodically restocked and presumably moved/distributed between stores. Stocks of Lego/Duplo get quite depleted most months at my local outlet, so you can tell preferences fairly well by what stays for months while other sets disappear in days.

[Klaus-Dieter]

Thank you very much for this information, AllanSmith!

I'm no moderator but I think we should get back to the topic, guys!

There are several forums which do discuss 9V-RC-PF - but this topic is for the news on the upcoming train sets, isn't it?!

Although I regrettably haven't seen any pictures of the new train sets I'm very optimistic that they'll be much better than the last wave - simply because the most of the City sets since last year have been amazing.

I could well imagine the new passenger train being similar to the classic Metroliner (hopefully with train doors, too) and the train station similar to either the classic train station from 1990 or to the Grand Central Station.

That we'll get a train level crossing is imo a clear sign that TLG has the aim to expand the Trains theme more than they did with the last one.

Do you think that the level crossing will be a hard to find set (like the last level crossing)?

As for the demand on single train cars: I could well imagine TLG changing their mind if next year's train sets sell very well. Since then they would surely release some more train sets in 2011 - and since these surely will not be again complete trains but some train structures we would get single (cargo) train cars anyway. Let's hope!

Klaus-Dieter

Edited December 14, 2009 by Klaus-Dieter

[Duq]

One train picture for next year has leaked:

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Cardman/...597-600x360.jpg

Shame about the drivers. I was hoping Lego would start producing them in red...

Edited December 14, 2009 by Svelte
Confidential pic removed

[Svelte]

One train picture for next year has leaked:

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Cardman/...597-600x360.jpg

Shame about the drivers. I was hoping Lego would start producing them in red...

Do NOT post confidential/ prelim pics directly.

You can link to them, but not post them.

Thanks!

[Rick]

One train picture for next year has leaked:

If I recall correctly, pictures with a 'confidential' stamp aren't allowed here on EB. You may link to the picture however.

edit: too late Swift Svelte beat me to it...

Edited December 14, 2009 by Rick