Hello AFOLs

I was wondering how much the collecting/building habits of AFOL depend on the Lego themes of focus.

I noticed that when talking with other AFOL I tend to assume they most commonly live their Lego hobby as follows, depending on the theme:

Castle: medium or large MOCs (buildings), big MOC layouts, or army-building

Pirates: medium or large MOCs (buildings and ships), big MOC layouts, or army-building

City: medium or large MOCs (buildings and vehicles), but layouts with official sets

Trains: locomotive and wagon MOCs, big MOC layouts with both MOC and official trains

Space: small to huge MOCs (spaceships)

StarWars: collecting official sets, or army-building

The interesting difference (if my feelings are not too wrong) is that I rarely see AFOL using the official sets when making Castle or Pirates layouts: they tend to be entirely original. Instead, most City layouts have several official sets and sometimes they are completely made of them with almost no MOCs. Trains layout are more varied: some use official trains but MOC the rest, some MOC everything, and some other just design the track and use almost only official sets.

Collecting some old or special sets for display is a common habit for everyone, but in case of StarWars (and pirates ships) it is a major part of the hobby. Particularly, it seems to me that in the StarWars case this is basically the main part of the hobby.

Army-building is another fairly common AFOL hobby, limited to Castle, Pirates and StarWars. As far as I know basically nobody builds armies of City or Space other than StarWars.

Obviously there is variations, I'm just thinking of the most stereotypical habits of AFOLs. I guess if you look around you can find for example AFOLs who build space buildings and stations, but they are much less than Lego space fans who build spaceships and other vehicles.

But please let us know what are your own AFOL habits and approach to the hobby, and if it varies from theme to theme

Interesting topic!

For me, it's mostly Town/City and the sets tend to be in a layout and either setup as original sets or tweaked original sets. Sometimes the tweaks are so a particular set will fit in a specific space or sometimes because I think of small improvements to the original. Like I say, Town/City is my main focus but not my only focus; if I break it down the same as you it looks like this:

Castle: Official sets and small army building - The castles are often used to create an "old town" within a City/Town layout

Pirates: Same as Castle

City: Official sets or minor variations of these. Occasional MOCs

Trains: Same as City and usually integrated into a Town/city layout

Space: Just official sets although they get built very, very rarely.

StarWars: Official sets only and displayed on shelves as individual models

Technic/Model Team/Creator Vehicles: Rarely built and then displayed as individual models on shelves

Creator buildings: Official sets and usually integrated into a Town/city layout

Cheers

Rog

Edited January 10, 201015 yr by rriggs

I agree it is an interesting topic, we are all different, so our approaches to Lego can also differ.

For me City is MOC central for me, while Castle, Pirates and Star Wars/Clone Wars are generally official sets.

True I do build armies for Star Wars and Castle, why not you get to play war with your kid(s) if you want.

I'm not a fan of just building something that can not be played with, but some people just love building and displaying, yep we are all different.

Cool topic. I have the attention span of a butterfly in a flowerbed when it comes to Lego but I MOC everything, I buy for MOCing and I MOC any size I have the parts and space for. I don't like to build armies as I prefer unique figures. I buy some of all themes for their parts and figures.

Thats about all I can say about it.

There are as many different ways for AFOLs to deal with their hobby as there are AFOLs, so generalisations are always tricky.

Take City for instance. Many of the cities I see on eurobricks indeed involve a mix of MOCs and sets, but I know plenty of city builders -myself included- whose layouts consist exclusively of MOCs, although somebody might try to slip a copy of Cafe Corner in there somewhere

Cafe corner sets are great, but it's far more fun to build your own and there's little pride in showing something that in principle could have been built by a ten-year old. Similarly, LEGO has done a great job with their vehicle designs in the last few years -their trucks in particular- but I like to give my vehicles something a bit extra. Official sets tend to be a bit too toy-like for my tastes.

You mention army building and that this is mainly confined to the castle, Star Wars and Pirates themes and not to city. Of course, LEGO don't have a contemporary military line and city and military somehwo don't really mix, but there are thousands of people who build modern military stuff. Check out the flickr military lego group for instance. Full of tanks, jeeps, helicopters and planes, but also more spacy stuff such as mechs.

Cheers,

Ralph

there's little pride in showing something that in principle could have been built by a ten-year old

That's a little unfair. You are correct that "in principle" a ten year old could assemble the standard sets and create a layout but that does not mean that there's little pride in doing so. If a ten year old can fish, can play football and can use a computer (to levels better than some adults) does that mean that anglers, amateur sportsmen and computer enthusiasts have little pride in what they do?

I am sure that those of us that include standard models in a layout build the sets to a higher standard and with greater attention to detail and precision than "a ten year old". Furthermore, the amount of planning, time, dedication, enthusiasm and, of course, money that goes into such a layout should not be underestimated.

Cheers

Rog

Edited January 10, 201015 yr by rriggs

Interesting observations. I like to vary my theme for MOCing, partly to keep my interest, and also partly to make best use of my Lego (I find that in general, the useful parts for MOCing often come from the same theme of sets - and I tend to buy sets I like in most themes). I don't do large scale dioramas or anything, but that is due to a lack of space as much as anything else (I probably would have enough relevant Lego for a city or castle diorama especially, but possibly even 90s-style space, and yes, I would incorporate some of the sets I like more). The Winter Village and the Mediaeval Village I collaborated on were the largest scenes I've put together (although the latter had no landscaping).

I think incorporating official sets is partly due to the Lego catalogues we all remember that showed the sets off in a busy environment we couldn't hope as kids to recreate with our meagre Lego. It really brings the official sets to live to have them in a custom scene, and many of them even if simplistic or toy-like, are well designed and have a charming "look". Actually I think at times the simplistic look is really nice, and it is hard to acheive in one's own creations (I do sometimes strive for it to make my models look "official"). As much as I appreciate the incredible creations some post online, I do think it is also impressive when people manage a "set-like" model that is polished and doesn't look like a kid's creation! Importantly models like this can often be acheived with more limited parts.

Interesting topic. I myself am building a castle army and occasional castle moc. But I think that the interest in different themes is to some extent an age thing. I dont collect starwars or bionicle simply because there is no nostalgia attached to them, they were introduced when i was "too old" to play with lego (I'm 32 now).

I would guess that the older you get, the more you moc. No wonder the greatest number of mocs are town, pirates, and castle. All of which was introduced at least twenty years ago, making the nostalgia-fans at least around thirty years old. Has anyone ever seen a huge bionicle moc made by a middle-aged person?

Now a city army, that I would like to see, hundreds of identical minifigs with suits and briefcases sitting in a long row of small cars. I think I would call it the "commuter horde".

Not started my city yet but it will be mainly MOCs with occasional original models (Such as Cafe Corner & GG if I can find them!)

That's a little unfair. You are correct that "in principle" a ten year old could assemble the standard sets and create a layout but that does not mean that there's little pride in doing so. If a ten year old can fish, can play football and can use a computer (to levels better than some adults) does that mean that anglers, amateur sportsmen and computer enthusiasts have little pride in what they do?

I am sure that those of us that include standard models in a layout build the sets to a higher standard and with greater attention to detail and precision than "a ten year old". Furthermore, the amount of planning, time, dedication, enthusiasm and, of course, money that goes into such a layout should not be underestimated.

Cheers

Rog

I don't see how you can build a standard model to a higher standard. If it's built to a higher standard, it's not a standard model any more!

The fact that somebody else might be able to do it better doesn't mean you can't enjoy it too, of course, but there's little pride in building stuff from instructions for me personally. For me this hobby is almost completely about building MOCs. I love to design and build things myself and to reach a standard that few people reach -let alone ten year olds. That gives me the most pleasure and satisfaction. A layout that consists of sets, in my opinion, is also not particularly interesting to look at, no matter how much money and enthusiasm has been spent on getting them all together.

No offence, but it's like comparing an original painting to painting by numbers.

Cheers,

Ralph

I don't see how you can build a standard model to a higher standard. If it's built to a higher standard, it's not a standard model any more!

It's about the time and care that it put into assembling the set; all the pieces properly put together (no cracks or wonky bits), how well the stickers are put on, the attention to detail in the layout itself, etc. A lot of planning and thought can go into a good layout made up of standard sets and all that planning and thought is what produces an end result to be proud of.

No offence, but it's like comparing an original painting to painting by numbers.

You say no offence and follow it with a blatantly derogatory statement. Elitism and snobbery are not nice traits.

Cheers

Rog

Edited January 10, 201015 yr by rriggs

This is a nice discovery, and for the most part I agree with your generalization, but I've seen a few Space Armies that I am rather jealous of to say the least.

Castle; I love the figs, but don't have enough to build an army, and I'd love to build a huge castle moc, but don't have enough grey.

Pirates; I don't really do much aside from the occasional vignette in this theme.

City; I don't do anything with city, but I love that new city guy with the space symbol on his shirt, if only he came in an impulse set, whats that? He does!?

Space; my sick army of spyrius will cream yours!! Unfortunately thats not much to brag about; I like building small ships, but intend to build a large one someday. I also like using the new official SP sets in a diarama form, but haveing a small army of snake figures, sorta makes it alittle more unreaalistic. I also build ground bases, including the biggest moc I ever built (it was spyrius )

Star-Wars is usually left to my brother, but I often use the pieces in space Mocs

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Don't want to offend anyone. In my opinion, moc and collecting official sets are two different hobbies (very closely related however). It's like comparing amateur painter and art collector.

I see myself as both.

Edited January 10, 201015 yr by lisqr

It's about the time and care that it put into assembling the set; all the pieces properly put together (no cracks or wonky bits), how well the stickers are put on, the attention to detail in the layout itself, etc. A lot of planning and thought can go into a good layout made up of standard sets and all that planning and thought is what produces an end result to be proud of.

You say no offence and follow it with a blatantly derogatory statement. Elitism and snobbery are not nice traits.

Cheers

Rog

I wrote 'no offence' because it is not my intention to offend you. However, following the instructions is like painting by numbers. If you consider that a derogatory remark, perhaps you yourself are being snobbish towards people who paint by numbers. Don't people who've made something that way have a reason to be proud of their work too? The end result can look really nice, it takes a lot of time and effort and it takes skill to stay between the lines.

I'm sure that arranging the various models and creating little scenes with sets is a creative process and I don't think any less of you for doing that using sets. If that's what you like to do, then so be it and I don't want to take away of the fun you have in doing it. It's just not what I like to do. I did build the cafe corner sets and kept them around for a bit because they are nice, but ultimately I buy them for the parts. I too have the fun of arranging everything and of creating scenes and getting everything looking nice together, but in addition I have the fun of fiddling around getting a car to looks just so or of constructing a particular building.

I'll give you an example. In October last year I was one of the contributors to Bricksboro Beach. It was a collaborative project, building an American city in the style of Miami Beach, full of art-deco buildings. It was displayed at a LEGO show in Swindon. Eleven people worked on it for months. I built most of the cars, several boats, the seaplane, a hotel, a classic American diner and a few smaller buildings. Everything on there was an original creation. The display was the centrepiece of the exhibition and the audience loved it -children and parents alike. The level of detail, the colours, the architecture and the size of it all just blew them away. No matter how creative you are in arranging them, you just can't do that with sets. That's what I enjoy.

To each their own.

Cheers,

Ralph

Edited January 10, 201015 yr by Ralph_S

Ralph_S:

I understand the point you are making (but I don't think it needs to be made in such a manner, or even made at all in such a thread), but I don't think you quite appreciate why people would include ordinary Lego sets in a custom scene. My Winter Village for example although with some MOCs I am quite proud of (Norman Church and the Village Station) is entirely complemented by the use of the modified Town Hall (from Town Plan), Emerald Night and Winter Toy Shop, and indeed their traits are amplified by the setting also. I absolutely consider this to involve artistic design, and it is not on a level of "painting by numbers".

Don't want to offend anyone. In my opinion, moc and collecting official sets are two different hobbies (very closely related however). It's like comparing amateur painter and art collector.

I see myself as both.

I think this is a great way of viewing things. As an AFOL I see myself as both a collector and an amateur builder and take pride in doing both things for a different set of reasons. I agree with Ralph that set collecting is very much like painting by numbers; it's an activity where you follow a set of instructions carefully to yield a desired result. The process itself yields a great deal of satisfaction. I have all of the CC series sets and my UCS Falcon built and displayed.

MOCing is a very different animal. The satisfaction one gets from building a MOC is quite distinct in my experience. For me the greatest aspect of MOCing is knowing that the end result is yours and yours alone. You can take great pride knowing that what you've built is as unique as your own fingerprint. While many AFOLs undoubtedly have UCS Falcons and Corner Cafes proudly displayed at the centre of their collections, a MOC is unique, one-of-a-kind creation that you can take pride in designing and displaying. Even if your MOC isn't as complex as some sets, it is yours and nobody else's.

I use my Pirate and Castle collection to MOC, wargame and roleplay.

I "army build" and MOC with my Zombies and Survivors. (Town)

I hope to do comics/movies with both collections eventually.

If you consider that a derogatory remark, perhaps you yourself are being snobbish towards people who paint by numbers.

It was you who made the comparison, not me. I simply used your example to support my argument.

Don't people who've made something that way have a reason to be proud of their work too? The end result can look really nice, it takes a lot of time and effort

Isn't that exactly the point I was trying to make in the first place? Read your words exactly as they are typed above and apply that to building Lego models to original designs.

Over the years I have built many, many more MOCs than I have original sets. Some of them good, many of them poor. I now focus largely on collecting and spent many months separating my childhood collection of elements back into the orginal sets and then locating missing pieces on the internet to complete them as necessary. I still do build MOCs and modify sets as part of their integration into layouts.

Your comparison of amateur painters and art collectors is a very valid one. I agree with this and think it's a very good metaphor. I still take umbrage with some of your other comments and your belittling of the Lego "art collectors". This is a very specifically AFOL discussion and comparing the hobbies of adults with the activities of ten year olds is simply offensive.

Cheers

Rog

Ralph_S:

I understand the point you are making (but I don't think it needs to be made in such a manner, or even made at all in such a thread), but I don't think you quite appreciate why people would include ordinary Lego sets in a custom scene. My Winter Village for example although with some MOCs I am quite proud of (Norman Church and the Village Station) is entirely complemented by the use of the modified Town Hall (from Town Plan), Emerald Night and Winter Toy Shop, and indeed their traits are amplified by the setting also. I absolutely consider this to involve artistic design, and it is not on a level of "painting by numbers".

This was in the original post

"City: medium or large MOCs (buildings and vehicles), but layouts with official sets"

There are no official sets in my layouts and the ones that we build with the Brickish Association tend to have very few if any as well. When I mentioned ten year olds and painting by numbers I was specifically referring to building sets according to their instructions. I personally don't find that challenging or particularly interesting. Of course you can use sets in your layouts if you want to or do creative things with your sets, but I get much more satisfaction designing and building something myself. That was the only point I wanted to make and is very much on topic. I was talking about my preferences, without trying to put anybody or anything down. Unfortunately Rog interpreted it differently.

edit:

It was you who made the comparison, not me. I simply used your example to support my argument.

Isn't that exactly the point I was trying to make in the first place? Read your words exactly as they are typed above and apply that to building Lego models to original designs.

Over the years I have built many, many more MOCs than I have original sets. Some of them good, many of them poor. I now focus largely on collecting and spent many months separating my childhood collection of elements back into the orginal sets and then locating missing pieces on the internet to complete them as necessary. I still do build MOCs and modify sets as part of their integration into layouts.

Your comparison of amateur painters and art collectors is a very valid one. I agree with this and think it's a very good metaphor. I still take umbrage with some of your other comments and your belittling of the Lego "art collectors". This is a very specifically AFOL discussion and comparing the hobbies of adults with the activities of ten year olds is simply offensive.

Rog,

You are blowing an off-hand remark about ten year olds completely out of proportion. A ten-year old can build a set. That's a fact. For me LEGO is mainly about building things and building something that a ten year old can build simply doesn't interest me. For me the fun lies in the challenge of building my own stuff. That doesn't mean that I somehow feel that you are childish if you do enjoy building from instructions, because you like what the set looks like, because it's relaxing, because it brings back childhood memories or for whatever other reason. When I compared building sets following instructions to painting by numbers I was trying to find a metaphor about how the two things are different. It wasn't about one thing being better than the other, although you interpreted it that way.

If you enjoy collecting and building sets and enjoy adding them to your layout, by all means have fun. This is supposed to be a hobby, after all. We're not all the same, but I'm a fellow AFOL. I too play with a kids toy. I'm not attacking what you do. I'm just explaining why I myself prefer to do something else. You are reading something in my words that just isn't there.

I'll try another metaphor that hopefully doesn't offend you: you enjoy making a meal using sauce from a package, I enjoy making my own sauce.

The comparison of amateur painters and art collectors wasn't mine, by the way.

Cheers,

Ralph

Edited January 10, 201015 yr by Ralph_S

I have to agree with Ralph here. Building official sets is nice, but its been designed by someone else and not you, so surely you would feel more pride and achievement if you built something stunning that was all your own design. I havnt got any official sets still assembled, because theres so much more possibilities and things to build with the pieces. Lego sets are generally aimed at the younger generation, so the sets do have more of a 'toy' look. I prefer a more realistic look, and would rather build my own designs. In my opinion, Lego just supplys the bricks, the rest is all down to your own creative imagination!

Dear Ralph_S,

if you would make an instruction of your MOCs a ten year old would be able to build them as well.

I like collecting and MOCing and I find certain sets aesthetically pleasing.

I like building a MOC and putting a set together.

I see no harm in putting them in a layout as they are recognizable to people, just as a famous building is.

just as long as they are in a comparable scale.

For me your argument can be extended a bit like this:

"When you're building a representation of an object, that is not admirable, since you are creating a mere copy."

Be it from instructions, photos, or having the object itself.

You are not the original inventor/ architect, but merely a copy cat building a scale model.

But, that could be said of all MOCs of existing cars, plains, buildings, etc. as well.

So, I see no harm in using sets in layouts since I enjoy rebuilding real life object, sets and stuff that is popping up in my head.

Plus, it takes a lot of time, space, devotion, money and patience to build up and maintain a descent size collection.

Kind regards,

Teddy

Some AFOLs *are* snobbish about official sets, and are MOC purists who look down a little on people who enjoy official sets on their own terms. I am not accusing anyone in this thread, but this is definitely an attitude I've encountered before. Personally I love official sets as much as I love making my own creations, and I am not much of a vehicle builder, so if I want a little car or truck I'd much rather use a well-designed official model than waste time building something less than satisfactory.

As for Cafe Corner - I don't see why including this set in an otherwise MOC layout would contaminate it in any way - really, I'd include it as an homage to the amazing set that kickstarted the whole trend for large scale, beautifully designed buildings. To be honest it still stands head and shoulders above a lot of MOCs I see

In the end, I like a mix - I see nothing wrong with admitting that LEGO designers can do some things better than me. Part of the joy of putting together a layout can be enhancing or improving official sets (eg, I always replace the cone and 1x1 round plate flowers on Creator houses with more classic foliage like proper flowers and trees as I find them more visually appealing).

I think whether you include official sets in your layouts is often a matter of the style of your layout than anything else.

For example, I strive for my layouts to be '80's classic town eske. What that means is that for a rubbish truck, I use 6693, or a slightly modified 6693, or a heavily modified 7991. The reason being of course that 7991 is out of scale. I could build my own rubbish truck from scratch, and in due course probably will, but prefer to have a complete town in the meantime.

So, basically, I start of with a collection of official sets, and tweak them as time goes on to be scale appropriate and more moc-ish. While I like the scale and style of layouts like Brickboro beach mentioned in an earlier post, at this time that is not feasible for me.

As for the creativity of building a layout with standard sets, I regard this a little like a DJ creating a song from existing samples. There is still talent involved in the implementation.

For Castle/Pirate layouts, I tend to moc more.

I also often build a theme of original sets to 'celebrate' and have these on the bookshelf in my foyer. At the moment I have all the Blacktron2 sets on that shelf. It acts as a great conversation starter with visitors and allows me to build some of the sets on a regular basis. I probably chnage the display every month or two.

Dear Ralph_S,

if you would make an instruction of your MOCs a ten year old would be able to build them as well.

(...)

For me your argument can be extended a bit like this:

"When you're building a representation of an object, that is not admirable, since you are creating a mere copy."

Be it from instructions, photos, or having the object itself.

You are not the original inventor/ architect, but merely a copy cat building a scale model.

But, that could be said of all MOCs of existing cars, plains, buildings, etc. as well.

(...)

That makes very little sense. Your reasoning is tantamount to saying that anybody who paints portraits is a copycat because he or she paints portraits of real people.

Of course I don't design the actual car (at least not usually), but it's me who turns its shape into something built out of LEGO and that is a challenge. The model represents a real object, but it is my representation and as such it is an original. Whether somebody else could copy that interpretation -if I were to provide the means for them to do so- has no relevance for whether I enjoy the process of designing it in the first place. BTW, my buildings might be inspired by the style of real buildings I know or pictures that I've seen, but they are my designs. I am the architect.

In any case, I was merely explaining why I enjoy doing what I do rather than building sets. If somebody else rather builds their own fantasy MOCs because real-life objects really aren't all that interesting to them, then best of luck to them. However, I somehow suspect that city isn't really their theme.

As for Cafe Corner - I don't see why including this set in an otherwise MOC layout would contaminate it in any way - really, I'd include it as an homage to the amazing set that kickstarted the whole trend for large scale, beautifully designed buildings. To be honest it still stands head and shoulders above a lot of MOCs I see

It is a lovely set. Wonderfully designed with nice colours and great parts. Back when I only had only two cafe corner MOCs myself, I too used to have them sitting on a shelf with the actual set. My main reason for not liking it included in layouts -certainly not public ones- are threefold:

-the first reason is something I am no longer going to elaborate on, because I already feel as though I'm repeating myself and it is getting boring.

-the second reason is that it's been done to death.

-the third is that its style doesn't always agree with the style that I and the other builders I collaborate with are going for. It would have looked very much out of place in Bricksboro Beach for instance.

Cheers,

Ralph

Edited January 11, 201015 yr by Ralph_S

I collect Star Wars sets and I put them on display. I like both the minifigs and the ship in the sets. I am not much of a moc'er because I dont have a lot of time to start and finish and while I have quite a lot of parts I have pretty basic parts. I am pretty focused on just Star Wars but I would like to get into modular building and buy those sets and have ago at making my own in the style.