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Posted

Now that the comic strip affair has been blown well out of proportions several new themes emerge. The Christian - Muslim conflict that has been fought harder and harder each day for the past year which has now resulted in the burning of a Danish Embassy - a war between shia and sunni muslims for surpreme religious power and the fact that this is being fought all over the Middle East convinces me that most of the rioting the last 48 hours has little or nothing to do with those stupid drawings. It seems that most of this is internal politics and the excuse for show of force has been the comic strip... Man the World is stupid at times...

In Denmark the representative of the Muslims Abu Laban has said that we should sort this out through diplomacy and then he went on the Arabic TV channel Al-Jaazera and said that anyone fighting to protect the prophet and anyone boycotting Denmark is well liked by the Danish Muslims - how reckless can one man get? - This resulted in some people saying that he should be show out of Denmark and this lead to the lie that Denmark was rounding up the Muslims here and putting them on airplanes... A rumor they truly believe in the Middle East - I just can't see how this will end...

KimT

Posted
Now that the comic strip affair has been blown well out of proportions several new themes emerge. The Christian - Muslim conflict that has been fought harder and harder each day for the past year which has now resulted in the burning of a Danish Embassy - a war between shia and sunni muslims for surpreme religious power and the fact that this is being fought all over the Middle East convinces me that most of the rioting the last 48 hours has little or nothing to do with those stupid drawings. It seems that most of this is internal politics and the excuse for show of force has been the comic strip... Man the World is stupid at times...

In Denmark the representative of the Muslims Abu Laban has said that we should sort this out through diplomacy and then he went on the Arabic TV channel Al-Jaazera and said that anyone fighting to protect the prophet and anyone boycotting Denmark is well liked by the Danish Muslims - how reckless can one man get? - This resulted in some people saying that he should be show out of Denmark and this lead to the lie that Denmark was rounding up the Muslims here and putting them on airplanes... A rumor they truly believe in the Middle East - I just can't see how this will end...

KimT

i think at least Belgium and Denmark have exactly the same problem: the quality of the imams in our country. i don't know how this works in Denmark, but our imams aren't trained for the job in Belgium but in their country of origine, and very often they're not even allowed to preach in their native country because they're too radical. So what do they do? they come to europe and start preaching here, since there's no policy, nor control on these matters, they can more or less continue to distribute their radical ideas. we had, and probably still have, a major problem with a few imams in Brussels. they seem to recruit young muslims to go and fight in Iraq. a few months back, one of the suicide attacks in Iraq was performed by a Belgian muslim woman... since then our secret service is really keeping an eye on what's going on in these brussels mosks, but the matter is very sensitive because muslims don't want to be seen as terrorists or potential terrorists. So now politicians are saying that we need to train the imams ourselves and make sure they're not of the radical type, but integrated elements of Belgian society.

we don't have fight between christian reps and muslim reps. in fact, even tho most people aren't practicing christians anymore, they all have great respect for our chief cardinal Danneels who more than once said that Islam still needs to go thu a fase of "Enlightement", meaning, Islam still has to catch up with modern sociey. Christianitity has done that during the last 50 years or so, at least in Western Europe, Islam is still miles away... Once again Danneels showed that he's one of the smartest people in Belgium...

Posted
Middle East - I just can't see how this will end...

KimT

It ends like this http://hem.passagen.se/replikant/nuclear_holocaust.JPG

Or like this. http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/000Ima...termath6024.jpg

Doesn't matter whether we are talking about now, or about 3000 years ago. It is the nature of humans to destroy themselves due to inability to compromise, greed, stupidity, and lust for power. Civilization is only a thin veneer, underneath which our essential inhumanity is always present.

Religion is a two edged sword. On the good side - it teaches that certain destructive and selfish behaviours are "bad", and that other useful behaviours are "good", and in doing so promotes human survival and growth.

On the bad side, there is an unavoidable tendency of believers to believe that only their religion is right. Those that do not share your beliefs are "wrong", eventually to be "converted". When it is apparent that they cannot be converted, either they have to be destroyed, or tolerated. Tolerance does not appear to be a prominent element of human nature, or of most religious teachings. Hatred and jealousy are all too easily manipulated by the intolerance to serve their ends.

It appeared that humanism (modern humanism) was replacing Christian Humanism in Europe and much of North America, i.e. that they were becoming post-religious as has been said. That was the hope for a better future for humanity. However, this certainly has not occurred in other major religions and seems to be backsliding in the United States, where creationism is back on schoolbooks, and major public figures proclaim that they believe in salvation through the apocalypse.

Interestingly, it seems that in both Muslim and Christian worlds the hard core fanatics are a minority, yet they seem able to carry power beyond their numbers because of their willingness to go to any length to support their beliefs, while the moderates are busy with their good lives, families, secular ambitions, and do not have the will to stand up and form an opposition which would surely win if mobilized.

Oh well, gotta end this ramble, kids want to play

Posted

I agree that the main problem with the Muslims is that they haven't had their "Reformation" as we did back in 1530 with Luther - the separation of religion and politics. But that doesn't seem to matter right now. What they need is education and freedom of speech including non-government-controlled media - that would help alot. Also we have the same imam issue here in Denmark. The imams are mostly sent from different muslim countries to guide their fellows in Denmark - thus they do not know anyting on Danish politics or common courtesy.

I hope it all ends well - God - Allah - Jahve aren't they all the same? We have a Jesus the Muslims calls him Jussef. We call him the son of God and they say he is "only" a prophet. Stupid is a stupid does!

KimT

Posted

Okay, someone got this a little wrong from the start of the thread; Its satire drawings and pictures were talking about NOT a comic strip! Another piece of evidence of CNN's suckiness!

Also, flag burning is laughable. A flag is just a piece of textile with a pattern. Oh my! The nice pattern is destroyed! :ohmy:

I was actually thinking of doing a short film called "Lets piss everyone off" were I burn all the flags of the world for fun... A flag is just a useless symbol for a piece of earth anyways, just to make a destinction between us and them.

These news has been raging on for like weeks now, and I as a swede find them not very intimidating since we have nothing to do with it even as it rages against us and propaganda that says that muslims are frowned upon here daily and satires like the ones mentioned... All that is crap and one that believes in it is an idiot- thats about it.

Now, Islam is a religion much like our own, though its still on reformated and the middle east has so bad communication systems that american news in comparison can be seen as accurate.

Im totally against that they let them be posted, since pictures of holy individuals are not allowed and Islam is like Judeism was before- a target for hatred, but I must say the entire protest raids has been laughable. A good person would take the excuse given and go on (like the swedish muslims has, but its becoming something more hilarious than something to be taken seriously.

Terrorists arent Muslims, they are people who think they are, killing one self for a false goal is ridiculed in the Coran so I dont see their goal...

People also mess up local traditions with the actual religion, too. Thats why we got this wierd westernese demonized version in our heads.

We shouldnt react; if they cant even see the difference between a Norwegian minister and the Chief-director of Jyllands Posten they are completely out of reach. If they continue take more and more propaganda they'll be even more of a laughing stock... Theyll know soon enough.

Dont fear terrorists- there is a larger chance that you get run over by a car.

Finally, I must say its fun to see something so small can make a such a large crater. Now, lets make fun with Jesus and the Pope...

...Oh, already overdone. :tongue:

Enough already, lets get buildin' with the bricks again, shall we?

Posted

1) burning a flag is far more than burning a piece of textile. A flag is a symbol of what you are, what you've accomplished as a people in a collective, a society. it's what you stand for. that's why we're using flags for all sorts of ceremonies. they may be meaningless to you, but a huge majority can't live without them...

2) i think this case clearly shows what happens if a meaningless event like printing drawings in a danish newspaper, falls into the hands of people with hidden agendas. you can't help but wonder why the danish imams decided to take these drawings with them to the Middle East, causing the misery to start...

It was extremely stupid to take the drawings to the Middle east and the export the danish problem of integration to a region that is already saturated by extremism in every possible field. I hope some one is taking steps to do something against this person. another problem with the islam is that, unlike christianity, it's not cetralised, there's no hierarchy, there's no counterpoint to the catholic pope for instance. There's no over all structure or institution that western governments can talk to. that puts these imams in a very sensitive situation, unfortunately, several can't seem to live up to that resposability...

Posted
1) burning a flag is far more than burning a piece of textile. A flag is a symbol of what you are, what you've accomplished as a people in a collective, a society. it's what you stand for. that's why we're using flags for all sorts of ceremonies. they may be meaningless to you, but a huge majority can't live without them...

I think that it has to do with people having the large problem of the entire "us against them" thing that made people talk different languanges and wanted to keep themselves different to not be like "the scum on the other side", strong nationality means fanaticism, as we've seen in a numerous of cases including the (in no specific order) Third Reich, Soviet (though it failed to some extent), the US under the cold war, The british empire and now this situation, though its much larger than just a country this time.

So, technically burning flags means removing the bonds. I cant see any other logical explaination. ;)

But I agree on you fully on point 2, of what seems to be a popular claim is that they spread with email and then the news rapidly began to grow. If I remember right, they were published back in the autnumn of 2005, so news go quite slow down there, or it just took time for the imams in denmark, not sure which.

Posted

Burning a flag IS something. I don't know about other flags, but the Danish flag is really old and there's even a legend about how we got it whilst fighting in the Baltic countries. So it really pisses of a lot of people here. Also I've just heard on BBC that someone shot a catholic priest in Tyrkey as he was leaving his church - this may or may not have anything to do with the comics. Also yesterday angry Iraqies attacked and tried to beat up Danish soldiers in Iraq as they were handing out Red Cross supplies.

As for the burning of embassies in Syria and Libya it has been confirmed that nearly 80 of the 200 arrested rioters in Libya were from Syria - guess it's all about politics between Syria and Libya now :dry:

KimT

Posted
Burning a flag IS something. I don't know about other flags, but the Danish flag is really old and there's even a legend about how we got it whilst fighting in the Baltic countries. So it really pisses of a lot of people here. Also I've just heard on BBC that someone shot a catholic priest in Tyrkey as he was leaving his church - this may or may not have anything to do with the comics. Also yesterday angry Iraqies attacked and tried to beat up Danish soldiers in Iraq as they were handing out Red Cross supplies.

As for the burning of embassies in Syria and Libya it has been confirmed that nearly 80 of the 200 arrested rioters in Libya were from Syria - guess it's all about politics between Syria and Libya now :dry:

KimT

it seems afghan radicals are using the drawings now to incite more riots and hate against the UN troops who are stationed there. Like the mess in Syria it's all about politics. these afghan radicals have been trying to start "a second iraq" in Afghanistan for the last couple of months. i think they're encouraged by the results of that type of war in Iraq, so now they're trying to export that concept to Afghanistan... It's a pitty, because the west was really getting somewhere in afghanistan, even tho the road is still very long... let's just hope the people there will remember the good work of the troops when they hear from these drawings...

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