Buy V9 or wait for the new sets?

[segambit]

Well RC isnt a option since its only has 2 trains.

V9 is very expensive, but so is the new powertrains i guess?

What would you do if you didnt have any trains: Buy used V9 or wait for the new trains?

Cheers

[Killerrabbit]

Well RC isnt a option since its only has 2 trains.

V9 is very expensive, but so is the new powertrains i guess?

What would you do if you didnt have any trains: Buy used V9 or wait for the new trains?

Cheers

Very easy decision: Both! ;)

[segambit]

Very easy decision: Both! ;)

But then you have to have 2 diffrent tracks, doesnt feel like a great start ;)?

Edit. Stupid question. But if i buy a V9 kit i only need extra motor to build a second train correct? (Looks alot more easy then the PF if so...)

Edited January 19, 2010 by segambit

[Legoist]

It's a tough decision. I think TLG has had the target of making PF a long-lasting power system, especially since it can be used to motorize and electrify anything Lego, and not just trains. Having one only system of motors, lights, sensors etc. is a great thing. With this in mind, we can hope that PF will last at least 10 years, but if they manage to update/replace individual elements of the system without breaking compatibility, it might even last indefinitely.

But we don't know... we can't be sure that it will remain financially convenient, it's not impossible that TLG will have to ditch PF in a few years and start again.

Personally I am delaying the decision. Since I don't have the space for a train layout at home, I'm just trying to use my diminutive time available to build the trains themselves and not the track, therefore currently I prefer to buy/build unmotorized locomotives.

Ultimately, I think one big thing for future Lego trains will be remote (wireless) powering, but unfortunately I understand that this technology is still in its infancy, and nobody knows if it'll take 5 or 50 years to become commercially available.

But then you have to have 2 diffrent tracks, doesnt feel like a great start ;)?

I guess that PF (or any other battery-based) trains would run on 9V rails with no problems (unless there's some grip problem) so you could buy 9V tracks and have both 9V, RC, and PF trains running on it. 9V tracks are more expensive, but you can't do the opposite (you can't use 9V trains on tracks that aren't 9V).

[peterab]

Well RC isnt a option since its only has 2 trains.

V9 is very expensive, but so is the new powertrains i guess?

What would you do if you didnt have any trains: Buy used V9 or wait for the new trains?

Cheers

The new trains will also only have two trains, probably for the next few years at least.

9V is expensive, and will probably only get worse, as there seems to be an active collectors market for them.

The RC trains although they use different technology than the new trains, are very similar, in that they both use batteries and an IR remote. They also run on the same track.

I have 4.5V, 12V, 9V, RC and PF trains, but I have very little 9V because they were supersceded when I got back into LEGO. I dont regret buying the RC train I have because its a nice train, and the fact that it has different electronics wont stop it from being used with the new trains. I also look forward to the new trains.

If I remember correctly you want to buy the train for your son. I dont think there is a clear best solution, so the answer depends more on you than on what's available. I'm sure your son will enjoy whatever you choose, as all the available trains are OK. I'd probably wait for the new trains, but if your son wants one right now then the RC trains are also good, and wont be useless once the new system comes in, in fact having a mix of both RC and PF will allow more trains to be run at the same time. If you really like the 9V trains, they are also very popular but are a dead end so you should only buy them if you are happy with the extra expense and greater difficulty in expanding them.

[segambit]

yeah its for my son. But then again, i play ALOT with him. So its for me also i guess :)

I got him the Emerald Night and its fun, but without the track its not to much to play with. I didnt like him to have a motor, but he really likes on. And i think he can handle it (He got a thomas train with motor and that works fine)

About the price. Is V9 really that more expensive?

Motor for emerald night is very very pricy. So i guess the new trains will cost 160-200 Euro?

For exampel a 4511 kit costs belove 100 euro (Sure not great looking train, but 1 kit will give me a good start for tracks+motor.) + a more expensive 4512 is about 200 Euro (same as new train). That would give me all track i need + 2 trains for about 300 Euro. + i think there is less expensive kits then the 4512 out there correct? Great train like 10133 costs about 100 dollar (Without motor)

[no_skill]

If you think Train is something you will get into and a theme you may ultimately follow, I recommend going with PF and start collecting as new sets come out. It is very hard not to get hooked on Train! 9V is just too expensive now, especially if you don't already have something significant to build upon. I keep watching the price of 9V straight track climb and climb. The 9V sets are none too cheep either.

The initial buy in for either is significant, but in the present climate, I think that expansion is (and will continue to be) much easier with non-electric (PF) systems.

Given the pics of the soon-to-be released PF Trains, it appears that LEGO is taking their development seriously...hopefully that will continue.

[segambit]

If you think Train is something you will get into and a theme you may ultimately follow, I recommend going with PF and start collecting as new sets come out. It is very hard not to get hooked on Train! 9V is just too expensive now, especially if you don't already have something significant to build upon. I keep watching the price of 9V straight track climb and climb. The 9V sets are none too cheep either.

The initial buy in for either is significant, but in the present climate, I think that expansion is (and will continue to be) much easier with non-electric (PF) systems.

Given the pics of the soon-to-be released PF Trains, it appears that LEGO is taking their development seriously...hopefully that will continue.

But will there really be that many PF trains? the RC sets been out for years correct?

Right now buying used V9 is alot cheaper then buying motors for PF (If not the sets change that)

[peterab]

About the price. Is V9 really that more expensive?

Motor for emerald night is very very pricy. So i guess the new trains will cost 160-200 Euro?

For exampel a 4511 kit costs belove 100 euro (Sure not great looking train, but 1 kit will give me a good start for tracks+motor.) + a more expensive 4512 is about 200 Euro (same as new train). That would give me all track i need + 2 trains for about 300 Euro. + i think there is less expensive kits then the 4512 out there correct? Great train like 10133 costs about 100 dollar (Without motor)

I think the nicer 9V trains are more expensive, such as 4563 or 4564, which I feel is sort of equivalent to the current cargo train, and I hope the new trains. Added to that you will probably only get the 9V second hand for a reasonable price, whereas RC or PF will be new. I guess the less expensive ones are also the ones most people consider to be the less desireable ones.

The Emerald Night complete kit is expensive, but if you use just the XL motor and the normal PF battery box (not the rechargable one) it can be made to run quite cheaply, add the remote control and IR receiver for extra control.

Whichever system you choose you will be able to use the unpowered trains like 10133 if you want. 9V, PF and RC, and it looks like the new trains all have a bogie style motor you could fit.

I'm not going to try to guess what the price of the new trains will be. If you want to make a real comparison you'll have to wait, though if you feel the 9V is the way to go, I'd buy now and don't wait, as its unlikely to get any cheaper by waiting.

[no_skill]

But will there really be that many PF trains?

That is the big unknown. I really hate one-generation-only releases. It seems LEGO has invested much in PF, accross many different lines. I want to think that is a good indicator that it will be around for a while (but unfortunetly I too am not certain).

Right now buying used V9 is alot cheaper then buying motors for PF (If not the sets change that)

The rechargable battery box is the big expense for PF, yes? Track for 9V. If you will be acquiring 9V sets, you will be left with an abundance of curved track, and little straight. So, I guess the type of layout you desire may factor into your decision.

A battery box can be swapped out from PF in much the same way the motor can be switched out in 9V. The prelim pics of the upcoming PF trains lead me to believe the rechargable battery will be included; your Emerald Night can be retrofitted with the battery. XL motors are really not that expensive. Neither are IR receivers. Perhaps the best solution is wait until good information is out regarding the pricing of the new PF sets. (Hard prices aren't leaked yet, are they?) Given the high element count, perhaps the Emerald Night's cost is not the best thing to base 2010 pricing expectations upon (wishful thinking).

In my opinion, 4561 is a good starter 9V that can still be found at a reasonable price. It was a gift for my son 9 years ago and got me into the genre. 16 curved and only 2 straight track, by the way. Again, expansion is where things become problematic.

If I could easily pick-up a few 9V sets where I am, I would; but I already have a foundation with 9V. Most of the 9V sets I'm interested in acquiring at this point are quite collectable and expensive. I'm hoping the messages from LEGO are valid, and the future (at least for a few generations) really is in PF.

I can only speak for myself. Seeing the prelim pictures of the 2010 sets and the Emerald Night, if I were getting in from the ground floor, I personally would go PF.

[segambit]

I think the nicer 9V trains are more expensive, such as 4563 or 4564, which I feel is sort of equivalent to the current cargo train, and I hope the new trains. Added to that you will probably only get the 9V second hand for a reasonable price, whereas RC or PF will be new. I guess the less expensive ones are also the ones most people consider to be the less desireable ones.

The Emerald Night complete kit is expensive, but if you use just the XL motor and the normal PF battery box (not the rechargable one) it can be made to run quite cheaply, add the remote control and IR receiver for extra control.

Whichever system you choose you will be able to use the unpowered trains like 10133 if you want. 9V, PF and RC, and it looks like the new trains all have a bogie style motor you could fit.

I'm not going to try to guess what the price of the new trains will be. If you want to make a real comparison you'll have to wait, though if you feel the 9V is the way to go, I'd buy now and don't wait, as its unlikely to get any cheaper by waiting.

How much work is it to use the PF on 10133 and trains like that? It will be same cost as for emerald night for every train you put it on, and on V9 its only 1 motor, correct?

So you can use the 8881 with 6 AA batterys and skip bot the 8887+8878?

Sure its very handy with rechargeable batterys, but i got tons of AA that can be charged.

if so its only 8882(or that smaller one)+8884+8881 for the extra trains? if so its not that bad.

[segambit]

How much work is it to use the PF on 10133 and trains like that? It will be same cost as for emerald night for every train you put it on, and on V9 its only 1 motor, correct?

So you can use the 8881 with 6 AA batterys and skip bot the 8887+8878?

Sure its very handy with rechargeable batterys, but i got tons of AA that can be charged.

if so its only 8882(or that smaller one)+8884+8881 for the extra trains? if so its not that bad.

Guess it looks like this with the 6AA batterys, wow it looks bad:

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=3941157

[segambit]

Alot posts from me right now, sorry.

But i trying to figure out exactly what i need.

If i go for V9 i guess i only need:

V9 Tracks

V9 motor (10153 ??)

Wagon Plate to build train ok

V9 adapter (Really cheap right now)

And i'm ready to go?

Of course i cant use the emerald night, but it would be great to buy 2-3 motors and build all trains with my son insted of buying expensive batteryspacks (I guess i can use more then 1 train on a V9 track, correct?)

[ThomasB]

Hi,

very good to have a new "enthusiast" on train tech.

I would just and simple say, buy whatever you can afford!

I will in the near future add pf and "only" plastic track to my 9v track setup.

I recommend some Lego Sets like 10183 and "my own train", even if its used.

And, first of all, buy it soon and let the fire burn!

Thomas

[segambit]

Hi,

very good to have a new "enthusiast" on train tech.

I would just and simple say, buy whatever you can afford!

I will in the near future add pf and "only" plastic track to my 9v track setup.

I recommend some Lego Sets like 10183 and "my own train", even if its used.

And, first of all, buy it soon and let the fire burn!

Thomas

Thanks Thomas.

Is my list of V9 stuff correct? Or do i need to add anything to make the trains moving...?

[no_skill]

Is my list of V9 stuff correct? Or do i need to add anything to make the trains moving...?

segambit,

To run 9V you will need a speed regulator

a power adapter

track contacts

9V motor

and 9V track

Frequently the speed regulator, power adapter, and track contacts are sold as a bundle, but make sure if you are buying sight unseen.

Trains are awesome! Sounds like you are already hooked, it'll only get worse!

[peterab]

Guess it looks like this with the 6AA batterys, wow it looks bad:

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=3941157

Yeah, that does look ugly, but is in principal the cheap way of doing things.

Others have hidden the large battery box inside a carriage such as this (it also has motors and an IR receiver in it but you get the idea).

Edited January 20, 2010 by peterab

[peterab]

Thanks Thomas.

Is my list of V9 stuff correct? Or do i need to add anything to make the trains moving...?

Your list is correct for one train, to get two trains to move independantly at the same time, you need all of that again (since you seem to be comparing with buying multiple rechargable PF batteries). If you buy two 9V train sets you will almost certainly need to buy at least a few more straight tracks, which are getting rare and expensive, so one oval can go around the other.

[AndyC]

Things to consider:

• Powered track, used by 9V, is unlikey to come back. This means its only ever going to get harder and more expensive to find.
  
• Even if PF was phased out at some point in the future, it's likely that its successor would use the same track. We've already seen this with RC. Investment in unpowered track, which is already cheaper, is probably better long term.
  
• Complex layouts are more difficult with 9V track. You have to prevent shorts and lots of consideration needs to go into the geometry of the layout. PF tracks can be laid out any way you can think of without worry and it's easy to "fix" geometry problems with bits of the smaller flex track. From a kids aspect, it's easier to play with.
  

As great as 9V was in the day, that day has passed. Starting a 9V collection now as a way of getting in to Lego trains is probably as inadvisable as trying to start with a 12V collection. I think waiting for the new sets and seeing what happens with the power supplies there is your best bet - it's either going to mean the current rechargable unit gets cheaper or TLG are introducing a smaller AA battery unit that's easier to fit into trains. Either way is probably going to be a good thing.

[segambit]

Your list is correct for one train, to get two trains to move independantly at the same time, you need all of that again (since you seem to be comparing with buying multiple rechargable PF batteries). If you buy two 9V train sets you will almost certainly need to buy at least a few more straight tracks, which are getting rare and expensive, so one oval can go around the other.

So i need 1 speed regulator + power cable +track contacts for every train running?

Edited January 20, 2010 by segambit

[peterab]

So i need 1 speed regulator + power cable +track contacts for every train running?

If you want them to run at different speeds or to stop them individually, yes. They need each to have thier own electrical circuit to be independant.

[segambit]

If you want them to run at different speeds or to stop them individually, yes. They need each to have thier own electrical circuit to be independant.

Ok, i guess 2 is what we need.

I read alot posts now about V9 and PF. And to me it feels like the V9 is more kid friendly?

Why? Well beacuse my son can more or less build what ever he likes on the V9 motor and have it running (If i'm correct;)) and with the PF he need to place batterypacks/cables/motors.

However the V9 track doesnt feel kid friendly at all (Since you cant build it anyway you like) I'm not sure however if this is a problem or not?

[johanby]

Is there a certain reason why the acronym V9 is used? AFAIK, it is only when talking about money one puts the unit before the value, i.e. £4.

[peterab]

Ok, i guess 2 is what we need.

I read alot posts now about V9 and PF. And to me it feels like the V9 is more kid friendly?

Why? Well beacuse my son can more or less build what ever he likes on the V9 motor and have it running (If i'm correct;)) and with the PF he need to place batterypacks/cables/motors.

However the V9 track doesnt feel kid friendly at all (Since you cant build it anyway you like) I'm not sure however if this is a problem or not?

As you say each has its disadvantages. I'd say a lot depends on the age of the kid. Teaching a kid about short circuits may be hard but teaching them not to make reversing loops might be easier, though sometimes they can be subtle. At least the short circuit protection in the 9V controller is pretty good as far as I know, so while the trains wont run, a short circuit wont damage anything.

To build a working RC/PF train only requires a motor just like the 9V one and a battery box so I think this is simple enough for kids. I dont think adding in the IR reciever and controller are much of a jump except for the youngest kids.

I guess I'd sum it up as a simple 9V track will be the simplest, however will get a bit more complicated if you want to run more than one train, or have fancy trackwork. An RC/PF setup will be slightly more complicated at first, but follows the same pattern with each train so doesn't get any more complicated.

[segambit]

As you say each has its disadvantages. I'd say a lot depends on the age of the kid. Teaching a kid about short circuits may be hard but teaching them not to make reversing loops might be easier, though sometimes they can be subtle. At least the short circuit protection in the 9V controller is pretty good as far as I know, so while the trains wont run, a short circuit wont damage anything.

To build a working RC/PF train only requires a motor just like the 9V one and a battery box so I think this is simple enough for kids. I dont think adding in the IR reciever and controller are much of a jump except for the youngest kids.

I guess I'd sum it up as a simple 9V track will be the simplest, however will get a bit more complicated if you want to run more than one train, or have fancy trackwork. An RC/PF setup will be slightly more complicated at first, but follows the same pattern with each train so doesn't get any more complicated.

PF only offers the Technic gearing motor correct? I think the V9 motor with wheels look very easy for a kid to build on.