Quality competitor to Lego...

[vexorian]

Ahem: The very first Lego brick was the exact same, but shaved off to European measures (Metric, old chap, not Blighty's Imperial measures) no tubes, no little extra lines inside. Just the exact same brick. TLG admitted as much in a 1983 court case (they were suing the pants of Tyco, a brand making very high quality bricks) it wasn't until much later that they developed the brick we know and love today. Check the Lego book (if you have it) and you'll see the patent of all the other sorts of connection they could think of. Not mindless propaganda, just uncomfortable truths.

But hey, even if the first brick they made was hollow, the one with cylinders is still LEGO's invention and it came after plenty of research and wondering around. And when it was invented, it started the history.

I don't think I would switch unless someone achieved *all* these and for significantly lower cost than Lego (I wouldn't switch just to save a euro or two). Which quite frankly, I think is not improbable but rather impossible.

It seems so scarily plausible though that LEGO would just keep dropping their standards until they reach megabloks level but just - as they do now- forget to lower the price

[samurai-turtle]

I don't think I would jump ship now. That is like switching guns in a fire fight and the other gun only has one bullet, when the previous gun I had a truck load of bullets.

I do have experience with other brands of bricks. The first one is a Mega Blocks rocket set my mom bought, like a curious kid I tried them with my LEGO bricks and they did not grip together at all. I even remember asking my mom why she bought the set, I got the typical cost answer. The second one is some sort of bigger brick (my mom bought, again) with tabs on the sides (I wish I could remember the name of them). I did like those you could make a OK snake or similar animal with those bricks.

I do have older K'NEX, if that would count. It started by getting a small set for a present, then I end up buying a big set. But that was pretty much the end of that. I guess I got plenty of them and I just wanted ideas/instructions for the rest of them.

[badboytje88]

I'm very tempted to buy slubal at the moment, the quality isn't too bad and they do have some very nice minifig hairpieces. Plus it is cheap as cowdung!

[CP5670]

I think it would have to achieve more than just "better quality" for me to switch. There's much more to Lego's success - versatility of even special parts, interconnectedness of measurements and types of connection, and then there's the style and design of sets, minifigs and the aesthetics of the parts.

You don't necessarily need to "switch" though. You can just buy both, as long as you stick to Lego-compatible clones. As I said earlier, mixing Lego with good clone bricks is not really any different from mixing 90s Lego with modern Lego.

Edit: I actually wish a company would dare competing with LEGO on quality and start shipping quality like what we had on the 90s. Not because I want to leave LEGO for that company but because I want LEGO to improve. I can't picture any other way for LEGO to actually care about quality the way I'd like them to care. LEGO has certainly been slacking off in terms of quality for too long due to the lack of serious competition in these regards, I don't think LEGO would ever charge 20 USD for five minifigs made in China with plastic of so bad quality that they look lime-ish instead of yellow if they had a true competitor.

Good point. There was a time when TLG pursued quality for its own sake, but the company's attitude towards that has changed. Today they will only do that if it helps their profits, and that will only happen if they face competition and consumers become more demanding about quality.

[gladiator]

Interesting Topic !

I love lego and forget the rest Why ?

1. Brand Image. As collector, I am very pride with this brand.

2. Money. I spent much money for lego in recent years... thanks, I dont want to do the same for any brands competitor.

If lego no longer exist at any reason , there will be the end of my collections.

I dont care with the quality issue, and I want to be "purist" collector.

[Brick & Mortimer]

I will stick to Lego; brand loyalty, image etc...

On the other hand, purely speaking supply and demand, a competitor of Lego wouldn't be bad.

TLC virtualy has a monopoly, which is never a healthy situation.

I'm very tempted to buy slubal at the moment...

What's that? It sounds like something from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

[legotrainfan]

I think I'd give up my LEGO hobby completely. I don't want to mix my LEGO stuff with bricks from another manufacturer...... yeees, I know what has been written here! I've read that it would be the same as mixing LEGO bricks from the 90s with LEGO elements from now. For me there's still a difference; or so I simply believe.

Quality has been an issue for a while. TLC takes criticism seriously.... or do they just pretend to take it seriously? I have no idea! We all know that colour problems have been around for some years now with new issues coming up all the time. So why has TLC not tackled this problem successfully? Are they letting us down? I'm pretty surprised that TLC has not been able to solve colour problems and other quality issues satisfactorily.

[Rick]

Interesting question that really got me thinking. It made me realize that - probably - one of the main reasons I'm hooked on Lego right now because I grew up with it, the nostalgia factor, and the quality image that it had/has (save this discussion for the quality thread). In one of the first post Svelte pretty much sums up the main reasons I'd also have for sticking with Lego. For me all things Lego are relative to the minifig, so that's a very important point. Furthermore, I wouldn't want to have two toy collections And it would be separate collections because I wouldn't think of mixing them.

You don't necessarily need to "switch" though. You can just buy both, as long as you stick to Lego-compatible clones. As I said earlier, mixing Lego with good clone bricks is not really any different from mixing 90s Lego with modern Lego.

I don't mix my AFOL collection with my childhood (1980s) collection either...

[Dannylonglegs]

Personally right now I say I'll never switch, but that's also what I said about 4th addition in DnD, and the Bley in Lego, but I switched for both.

I doubt that a good replacement will show up though.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Eilif]

If a competitor came out with a LEGO compatible brand that had the same or nearly the same quality of product and designs as LEGO at a lower cost, I'd definitely acquire some of that brand as well. I don't think anything could happen to make me give up my beloved LEGO though.

In fact that brand already exists, but is unattainable for me right now. If I could get Oxford bricks (a korean brand) here in the USA without haveing to pay so much shipping as to make them more expensive than LEGO, I'd buy them right now. I am thoroughly impressed with Oxfords designs, and all reports are that their quality is up to LEGO standards (unlike the sluban brand that copies Oxford designs in China and exports them under a number of brand names).

[vexorian]

holy feck:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?...p;mode=threaded

The minifigs actually look better than what we've seen in the collectable minifigs previews... The plastic does not seem to have that awful transluscency from clone plastic. And that design is very nice, sounds like something I would not hesitate to put on display, if that is notoriously cheaper than LEGO I will really try to find it (I am so away of Denmark , the US and Korea that shipping/import costs are probably the same...)

[Peppermint_M]

I have to say, the only brand to have "translucent" plastic is Best Lock, all the rest would be on a par with Lego, if not for the waxy look to some.

[vexorian]

I have to say, the only brand to have "translucent" plastic is Best Lock, all the rest would be on a par with Lego, if not for the waxy look to some.

I just had to deal with tons of megabloks bricks and they look quite far from LEGO quality to me, it was very easy to sort them out of the bunch of plenty of bricks with system and bloks. Then there are the n Chinese clones which maybe are the same brand using different names but it is just terrible.

Edited March 1, 2010 by vexorian

[Peppermint_M]

Older megablocks are prone to "sugaring" (my term, edges go lighter, smoother and have a granular quality) at the edges, I haven't had the new ones long enough to test. These blocks also are lighter coloured than Lego. Current bricks have a much more vibrant colouring.

Old best-lock, while incompatible with Lego looks just like it did as new.

Old Lego looks icky due to UV ageing and "eroded" edges. Sometimes I am guilty of having to double check they aren't clone...

Tyco looks as good as new Lego, I have a job telling them apart (minus the logo check).

Sluban is of lesser quality to Lego and Tyco, is on par with Mega and better than Best Lock.

Best-Lock has a bit of translucency, has a cheaper finish and can spring apart. They certainly look cheaper.

I will sort out a comparison shot when it isn't 22:40 GMT.

[blueandwhite]

Personally, even if a competitor came along with a product of comprable quality, I wouldn't shift my loyalty away from LEGO. As far as I see it, that's a surefire way to jeopardize the brand that I know and love. I appreciate that there is probably a market for such a product, but I am not a fan of building blocks; I'm a fan of LEGO. Clones have no place in my collection irrespective of their quality.

I'll leave the clones to Peppermint M and others .

[Extreme Sadness.]

I would never betray Lego by switching to another brand!I'm disgusted by the very Idea of it!Plus there probably will never be a clone brand that can even comprehend hoping that it would possibly be better than Lego.

Lego all the way, baby!

-ES-

[Golbolco]

I would buy both at the same time, though more lego then that brand.

[Front]

Putting building bricks together from two different manufactures are in my view problematic.

When you e.g. put a 2x4 brick on top of another 2x4 brick, both pieces deform. That deformation is more or less elastic and not plastic, i.e. when you separate the bricks again, the deformation will be gone and the original shape is restored. But to ensure this functionality, the bricks has to be designed and manufactured to certain dimensions with quite tight tolerances. If you start putting bricks together from different manufacturers, the gripping forces and the deformations are suddenly dependent on two different designs of dimensions and tolerances. The chances that one brick will make another deform, not with elastic deformation but plastic deformation, though mis-shaping the element for good, is so much higher. In other cases pieces may break more frequent, because a piece from another manufacturer, made with slightly different dimensions, may strain the pieces more than they were ever designed for. Will you call the costumer service and complain that the bricks are failing because you mixed them with another brand ?

[CP5670]

I have to say, the only brand to have "translucent" plastic is Best Lock, all the rest would be on a par with Lego, if not for the waxy look to some.

The only major clone I've seen in person is Megabloks, which look highly translucent to me, but I'm picky. Some types of 2007-08 Lego are about the same.

When you e.g. put a 2x4 brick on top of another 2x4 brick, both pieces deform. That deformation is more or less elastic and not plastic, i.e. when you separate the bricks again, the deformation will be gone and the original shape is restored. But to ensure this functionality, the bricks has to be designed and manufactured to certain dimensions with quite tight tolerances. If you start putting bricks together from different manufacturers, the gripping forces and the deformations are suddenly dependent on two different designs of dimensions and tolerances. The chances that one brick will make another deform, not with elastic deformation but plastic deformation, though mis-shaping the element for good, is so much higher. In other cases pieces may break more frequent, because a piece from another manufacturer, made with slightly different dimensions, may strain the pieces more than they were ever designed for. Will you call the costumer service and complain that the bricks are failing because you mixed them with another brand ?

This all assumes that the dimensions of Lego pieces are held to tighter tolerances than any of the clones, which is not really true these days. It has been mentioned around here that some Lego pieces have their studs or stud receptacles offset to such an extent that the differences are visible to the naked eye. I have a number of 1-wide plates like this in my collection.

You also have to separate Lego pieces in the right way, and if you don't do it right it is easy to permanently deform even pieces that are manufactured perfectly. In fact, the Lego brick separator makes this kind of deformation particularly common, as I described here.

Edited March 3, 2010 by CP5670

[Front]

This all assumes that the dimensions of Lego pieces are held to tighter tolerances than any of the clones, which is not really true these days.

First off, yes there are Lego bricks that has been put into boxes that never should have reached one. They should have been recycled.

Secondly, it is just not only a matter of tolerances, it is also a matter of the mean dimension measured on large batch of parts. Be my guest to name a clone brand that works better as a system of building bricks than Lego, because they are engineered better and manufactured better. If you think some other company currently are making building bricks with a better functionality because of less variation (tighter tolerances), I think you are far from reality.

Now someone in this thread claims that another brand makes bricks to just the same standard. Please try and make a large-scale structure like an extreme high tower or similar, which has been done with Lego bricks. See how it fit.

....edit....

And btw. my post did only talk about mixing bricks from two different companies. That will always result in a larger variation, hurting the functionality and possibly damaging bricks from either company.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Front

[CP5670]

First off, yes there are Lego bricks that has been put into boxes that never should have reached one. They should have been recycled.

Secondly, it is just not only a matter of tolerances, it is also a matter of the mean dimension measured on large batch of parts. Be my guest to name a clone brand that works better as a system of building bricks than Lego, because they are engineered better and manufactured better. If you think some other company currently are making building bricks with a better functionality because of less variation (tighter tolerances), I think you are far from reality.

Now someone in this thread claims that another brand makes bricks to just the same standard. Please try and make a large-scale structure like an extreme high tower or similar, which has been done with Lego bricks. See how it fit.

I don't know of any current clone that is actually superior to Lego, which is why my collection is still 99.999% Lego. What I'm saying is that it is possible for such a clone to exist in theory. It would not have been possible if Lego's tolerances had always been where they should be.

Oxford is supposed to be one of the best clones, and although I haven't seen them in person, they may be at least comparable to Lego in this respect. Maybe someone who has those sets could tell us more.

[Fugazi]

First off, yes there are Lego bricks that has been put into boxes that never should have reached one. They should have been recycled.

Secondly, it is just not only a matter of tolerances, it is also a matter of the mean dimension measured on large batch of parts. Be my guest to name a clone brand that works better as a system of building bricks than Lego, because they are engineered better and manufactured better. If you think some other company currently are making building bricks with a better functionality because of less variation (tighter tolerances), I think you are far from reality.

Now someone in this thread claims that another brand makes bricks to just the same standard. Please try and make a large-scale structure like an extreme high tower or similar, which has been done with Lego bricks. See how it fit.

Actually I'd love to see some objective comparisons between LEGO and clone brands here on this board! I'm sure we can think of many (non-destructive!) tests to decide whether the clones are good enough to replace Lego. But are there any owners here of sufficient amounts of clone bricks to put them to the test?

[Front]

It would be very cool if we could have reviews of other brands. I thought they were supposed to be in the Community section of the forums, but I looked yesterday and found none. I haven't seen the Oxford sets or touched their bricks, and I don't think I even saw them at Nurnberg Toy Fair last year. It might be because they actually copy the design of Lego sets. But I did get my hand on bricks from other manufacturers, and these were of poor quality. They were European brands.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Front

[Eilif]

Clone reviews:

There have been quite a few over the years. Do a search for Oxford, Enlighten, or Best Lock and you'll turn up a few. If you want a more reviews, check out the bloks forum http://bloks.hyperboards.com/index.php Not alot of direct comparisions, but definitely a good resource for the clone-curious.

Brick deformation:

Worrying about this gets a bit to far out of the range of "fun" for me. I've mixed clones and LEGO's at various times, and have never had any obvious brick deformation. Yes, if the dimensions were way off, it could be a problem, but these are plastic bricks and they have alot of "give". Furthermore, I'm certainly not going to start worrying about the way I disassemble LEGO. Teeth, fingernails, brick separators, gutar picks, I use them all. I like playing with LEGO, the less rules the better.

Translucence:

I agree with peppermint on most of her brick comparisons, but I have to say that I have seen some translucence in Megablocks. It's not alot, but it's often there. Some of the best things about LEGO are the heavy pigmentation, which makes them quite opaque, and the glossyness of the brick, which gives them that shine that makes it easy to separate them from Megabloks. Other companies sometimes (though rarely)match this. An example of this would be Tyco, which is why it's so hard to tell Tyco red and yellow bricks from their LEGO counterparts of the same era.

[Peppermint_M]

An example of this would be Tyco, which is why it's so hard to tell Tyco red and yellow bricks from their LEGO counterparts of the same era.

I had so much trouble with the yellow bricks! The only ones I noticed were the half brick hight dimensioned ones, the regular sized ones were so similar.

And Front? I have done loads of reviews, there all down in community. I shall have to add a link to the clone index in my signature...

As for the comparisons? Sorry, I have been having camera issues and life-stress so I haven't got around to it yet. I promise to get something done soon