Batman Films Discussion

[JimBee]

I think that it was definitely a hallucination. If Ra's was there in real life, he couldn't just disappear like that.

But he was under so much stress at the time, at first I thought it was Bruce remembering clips of the past three months. I didn't think Ra's actually "disappeared".

[Leo604]

I think Ra's' immortality is sort of ambiguous in this case. I personally think he sort of survived as a spirit, and appeared to Bruce as an apparition or something. However, Talia also said to Batman that she was there to avenge her father, so his death is also entirely possible.

The first is more likely in my opinion, since it's doubtful Bruce would have been able to deduce Ra's as the mercenary on his own after being beaten up and dropped in the bottom of a big pit.

[General Magma]

I think Ra's' immortality is sort of ambiguous in this case. I personally think he sort of survived as a spirit, and appeared to Bruce as an apparition or something. However, Talia also said to Batman that she was there to avenge her father, so his death is also entirely possible.

The first is more likely in my opinion, since it's doubtful Bruce would have been able to deduce Ra's as the mercenary on his own after being beaten up and dropped in the bottom of a big pit.

It was either a dream or a vision. I doubt they're going to throw a spirit into a film that's supposed to be realistic.

[def]

def: Have you ever watched The Dark Knight? I can see the whole premise as being flawed if you didn't watch TDK first, but otherwise it makes perfect sense. 

He didn't take the hiatus simply because of Rachel, but also Harvey Dent. Additionally, he took the blame for Dent's crimes (5 murders, two of lthem cops), making him an outlaw. The police would be chasing him during every single second he was out as Batman. Batman wasn't needed enough until Bane arrived. 

However, the fact that Bruce Wayne became a recluse was due to extreme grief. He had believed that Rachel would wait for him, and she died. He didn't know how to cope. I can understand if you didn't like that, but I thought it worked perfectly.

I'd say TDKR trumps The Amazing Spiderman.

I saw it, but I don't think it explains why he became a recluse. There are story points which apparently make sense in the Nolan-verse, but really, they make no sense in a Batman story. That includes the disappearance of Batman. It's just not how the character works. I look forward to the next movies, and hopefully the director doesn't think they're better than the comics and insist that everything is "real." I'd much rather see the video games Arkham Asylum and Arkham City used as models. They are truer to the characters and fun.

The reviews for this are about 80% love, and 20% hate, and I think I just fall into that second category. Of the trilogy, I think Batman Begins is my favorite, but I won't be rewatching them all to make that call.

[Scorpiox]

I personally loved TDKR, but that's just me. Bane wasn't as far from his comic counterpart as one would think, with being born in a prison and escaping being the foundations that regular Bane is built upon.

I was surprised at the very end when Batman didn't actually die. I was pretty sure that he was killed in the explosion, but then a friend pointed out that those mechanics with Fox were talking about how Bruce Wayne had fitted an autopilot to the BAT. And that the end scene with Alfred wasn't just a hallucination.

Also, I know it isn't going to happen, but it'd be really nice if Nolan finished his film series with a 'Robin' movie.

def: I don't think that Christopher Nolan thinks he is 'better than the comics' by trying to make Batman fit in a modern world. He wanted to make a more realistic version of the main characters so that they wouldn't look out of place in a very realistic world. A large majority of people who watch the film are not comic fans, so a 9ft venom enduced Mexican wrestler type doesn't have the same appeal as a tall and dark evil man with a scary voice. Don't get me wrong, I love the classic Bane, but he wouldn't have fit into the film as well. It seems that a lot of people who disliked the film are true comic fans. Maybe that is because the characters and themes are different to how they are normally portrayed in Batman, which doesn't seem to sit well with those who have been raised with specific inclanations that Nolan is going against.

In reference to your other point: Yeah, I'd love it if the next Batman film series uses designs from the Rocksteady games, maybe it's time for less-known villains like Clayface and Zsasz to get some cinematic attention. Now that would be exciting.

On another note: I took my mother to see the film yesterday, but she said it was 'too anarchic' for her liking.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Scorpiox

[Jimbobulus]

The prison wasn't Arkham, it was The Pit, Nolan's realistic, non-fantasy version of the Lazarus Pit.

In that case I don't have a problem with it

[def]

def: I don't think that Christopher Nolan thinks he is 'better than the comics' by trying to make Batman fit in a modern world. He wanted to make a more realistic version of the main characters so that they wouldn't look out of place in a very realistic world. A large majority of people who watch the film are not comic fans, so a 9ft venom enduced Mexican wrestler type doesn't have the same appeal as a tall and dark evil man with a scary voice.

<snip>

The thing is, the whole movie was not 'real'... Not in a 'movies aren't real' way, but in the 'planes can't steal other planes in the sky' or 'you can't punch a man's vertebrae back into his spine and have him walk later' way. So, ultimately, I would have rather seen Killer Croc make an appearance, or anyone else that was ruled out based on Nolan's vision of 'real'.

As for the comics fans, it's true, the average person isn't a reader. But, I think the current boom of movies is somewhat based on the large number of animated shows based on these characters from the 90's (Batman, X-Men, Spider-Man, and Iron Man being the main ones) which did mine the comics successfully, so there is a mass audience with an appetite for strange comic ideas. And I think the success of the more comic book faithful films of the last few years is an example of that.

I really do have the feeling that Nolan feels above the material. I like his movies, Inception and Memento in particular, and I really liked Batman Begins. I just don't care for his "rules" for the Nolan Batman-verse. I look forward to the next reinvention of the character on film

On another note: I took my mother to see the film yesterday, but she said it was 'too anarchic' for her liking.

I wouldn't have done that Maybe when I was in high school I would have. The last movie I tried to watch with my mom was Rushmore, which she turned off 30 minutes in for being weird. She would have just said no to Batman. Your mom watched it with you because she loves you

Now that I saw it, I can follow up on the podcasts I listen to, which are all weighing in on it this week. The aintitcool megablocks on poptards (link for good geeky podcast:http://www.poptardsgo.com/?p=3902) all liked it, with a lot of criticisms which almost sounded like they didn't. On the Slate Culture Gabfest, all were pretty tired out from it, which was close to my feelings on it. I'll check out the Filmspotting review tomorrow.

The movie is a major cultural point, so it is getting coverage from all points, and at the very least, I'm glad to be caught up to the conversation On another note, I saw a really nice looking girl on the street today with nerd-chic glasses and a loose T-shirt with a Batman logo on it. It's amazing how this character has traveled the world.

[JimBee]

In reference to your other point: Yeah, I'd love it if the next Batman film series uses designs from the Rocksteady games, maybe it's time for less-known villains like Clayface and Zsasz to get some cinematic attention. Now that would be exciting.

Actually Zsasz made a small appearance in Begins. He worked for Falconi and was defended in court by Crane.

[has a differing opinion]

There are story points which apparently make sense in the Nolan-verse, but really, they make no sense in a Batman story. That includes the disappearance of Batman. It's just not how the character works.

To be fair, that's what happened in the dark knight returns.

At least, I think... Batman did disappear in that...

Edited July 27, 2012 by has a differing opinion

[Spider-Man]

I agree with def in the sense that I wish they did stick to the comics more. I think people would definitely have been up for seeing some of the less "real" things in the movie. Superheroes to begin with aren't "real" (as much as I would love them to be ) so I think in attempt to make Batman "real" he kind of loses the feel of a superhero to begin with. I came out of the movie feeling like I watched an action movie rather than a superhero movie if that makes sense?

[The Blue Brick]

TDKR was a great movie IMO. I rate the trilogy as BB as first, TDKR as second, and TDK as third. I never really enjoyed Batman Begins the first time I saw it, but after watching TDKR, it made me appreciate it a lot more. A lot of people I know were hating on TDKR as it didn't have the joker in it. I was quite glad he wasn't in in. I thought Bane did an excellent job and his presence was just amazing. For example, he wouldn't even be in a room, and yet I still felt the fear that the people were feeling in the film. He did an awesome job playing the character. I do agree that the film did have some plot holes, but didn't really mind as I still loved it. Anne Hathaway was amazing as Catwomen. I loved her.

I also noticed some easter eggs in the film.

Commissioner Gordon refers to Killer Croc with asking about giant alligators in the sewers.

Also,during the stock market scene, Bane is wearing a red motorcycle helmet, which refers to Red Hood.

One that I didn't notice, but my friend did was during the stadium scene, where a fan has a poster with the Robin 'R'.

Overall, the movie was great and I hope Nolan changes his mind and continues with more movies.

[Sam892]

TDKR was a great movie IMO. I rate the trilogy as BB as first, TDKR as second, and TDK as third. I never really enjoyed Batman Begins the first time I saw it, but after watching TDKR, it made me appreciate it a lot more. A lot of people I know were hating on TDKR as it didn't have the joker in it. I was quite glad he wasn't in in. I thought Bane did an excellent job and his presence was just amazing. For example, he wouldn't even be in a room, and yet I still felt the fear that the people were feeling in the film. He did an awesome job playing the character. I do agree that the film did have some plot holes, but didn't really mind as I still loved it. Anne Hathaway was amazing as Catwomen. I loved her.

I also noticed some easter eggs in the film.

Commissioner Gordon refers to Killer Croc with asking about giant alligators in the sewers.

Also,during the stock market scene, Bane is wearing a red motorcycle helmet, which refers to Red Hood.

One that I didn't notice, but my friend did was during the stadium scene, where a fan has a poster with the Robin 'R'.

Overall, the movie was great and I hope Nolan changes his mind and continues with more movies.

I agree not only did TDKR not need the Joker to be a good film but I also feel that after Ledger's death it would have been inappropriate to have cast someone else after the great performance he did. However one of the biggest problems I have with the trilogy was Two-face. I felt that although Aaron Eckhart did a great job I felt that the character was very rushed I would have preferred that Harvey Dent was included in Batman Begins or that becomes Two-face at the end of TDK and is then one of the main Villians in the next film. I understand the whole point of Two face in the trilogy and how relevant he is but to me there wasn't enough screen time for what is arguably one of Batman's iconic foes. I know that my changes would have changed the story drastically but I felt he was short changed and today still has recieved the live action film treatment he deserves. I also feel that there wasn't enough reason for him to become the villain, there wasn't much physiological problems like there is in the comics or TV series. It's just my girlfriends dead and I'm scarred well time to kill people.

[The Blue Brick]

I agree not only did TDKR not need the Joker to be a good film but I also feel that after Ledger's death it would have been inappropriate to have cast someone else after the great performance he did. However one of the biggest problems I have with the trilogy was Two-face. I felt that although Aaron Eckhart did a great job I felt that the character was very rushed I would have preferred that Harvey Dent was included in Batman Begins or that becomes Two-face at the end of TDK and is then one of the main Villians in the next film. I understand the whole point of Two face in the trilogy and how relevant he is but to me there wasn't enough screen time for what is arguably one of Batman's iconic foes. I know that my changes would have changed the story drastically but I felt he was short changed and today still has recieved the live action film treatment he deserves. I also feel that there wasn't enough reason for him to become the villain, there wasn't much physiological problems like there is in the comics or TV series. It's just my girlfriends dead and I'm scarred well time to kill people.

I totally agree with you about Two-Face. I feel as he was short lived and should have been in the third film. However, like you said, there wasn't really a point for him to become a villain and the fact I feel the film would have been to cluttered with another character.

[Leo604]

I totally agree with you about Two-Face. I feel as he was short lived and should have been in the third film. However, like you said, there wasn't really a point for him to become a villain and the fact I feel the film would have been to cluttered with another character.

[spoiler

Even if they wanted to, with the whole situation regarding the Joker pushing Dent over the edge, there wouldn't have been a way to keep him alive while not ripping Gotham apart.

Thinking back, I wish Alfred had come back at some point during the fight to assist Batman even a little bit; while Michael Caine's performance was phenomenal, he exited the movie way too early and returned a bit late.

[Mr Man]

Thinking back, I wish Alfred had come back at some point during the fight to assist Batman even a little bit; while Michael Caine's performance was phenomenal, he exited the movie way too early and returned a bit late.

I got the feeling, after the reveal about Talia, that Bane is the 'Alfred' to her. And that Alfred would kill Bane.

[Leo604]

I got the feeling, after the reveal about Talia, that Bane is the 'Alfred' to her. And that Alfred would kill Bane.

Who knows, maybe in a deleted scene it was Alfred who saved Batman instead of Catwoman.

With a cane or something.

[Mr Man]

Who knows, maybe in a deleted scene it was Alfred who saved Batman instead of Catwoman.

With a cane or something.

Or with the golf club he hit the LOF member with in BB.

[Leo604]

Or with the golf club he hit the LOF member with in BB.

But then he'll be wondering whether Bane's a member of the fire brigade.

Not that there was any fire around, but still. A very moving and emotional performance.

[sharky]

I agree with def in the sense that I wish they did stick to the comics more. I think people would definitely have been up for seeing some of the less "real" things in the movie. Superheroes to begin with aren't "real" (as much as I would love them to be ) so I think in attempt to make Batman "real" he kind of loses the feel of a superhero to begin with. I came out of the movie feeling like I watched an action movie rather than a superhero movie if that makes sense?

That makes sense to me. I think it's a reason why I seem to enjoy these movies more than what would be considered a typical superhero movie. I was never much of a comic reader as the stories didn't seem all that compelling to me especially if they were too fantastic. Batman seemed to be a bit more grounded as far as he doesn't have actual superpowers like superman or maybe the X-men. Ditto for Iron Man. Even though they are science fiction the attempt to be somewhat grounded in reality makes the story more believable to me and therefore more interesting.

[Fives]

I just found this interesting bit from the TDKR novelization, which makes a reference to the fate of the Joker.

“Now that the Dent Act had made it all but impossible for the city’s criminals to cop an insanity plea, it (Blackgate Prison) had replaced Arkham Asylum as a preferred location for imprisoning both convicted and suspected felons. The worst of the worst were sent here, except for the Joker, who, rumor had it, was locked away as Arkham’s sole remaining inmate. Or perhaps he had escaped. Nobody was really sure. Not even Selina.”

Edited July 29, 2012 by Fives

[Sam892]

I just found this interesting bit from the TDKR novelization, which makes a reference to the fate of the Joker.

“Now that the Dent Act had made it all but impossible for the city’s criminals to cop an insanity plea, it (Blackgate Prison) had replaced Arkham Asylum as a preferred location for imprisoning both convicted and suspected felons. The worst of the worst were sent here, except for the Joker, who, rumor had it, was locked away as Arkham’s sole remaining inmate. Or perhaps he had escaped. Nobody was really sure. Not even Selina.”

That's quite cool. I wondered what happened to joker during the whole takeover. Nice to see its still a mystery what exactly happens to him but at least we know he could be still out there waiting for the right moment to cause chaos. Makes you feel sorry for Gotham.

[greeny]

Commissioner Gordon refers to Killer Croc with asking about giant alligators in the sewers.

Also,during the stock market scene, Bane is wearing a red motorcycle helmet, which refers to Red Hood.

One that I didn't notice, but my friend did was during the stadium scene, where a fan has a poster with the Robin 'R'.

Overall, the movie was great and I hope Nolan changes his mind and continues with more movies.

I'm sorry, but I belive the 'R' was a prop one of the extra's managed to sneak in

Killer Croc was in the animated film 'Batman: Gotham Knight' which takes place between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

I saw the film again, and I don't know which Batwing Lucius was checking in the ending montage, since the one Batman was flying was blown up by a nuke

[Clone OPatra]

I saw the film again, and I don't know which Batwing Lucius was checking in the ending montage, since the one Batman was flying was blown up by a nuke

There were more than one - the one Lucius was originally showing Bruce was the one that he also was looking at in the end, and he had gotten a second black one to give to Bruce. (What doesn't make sense is why Bruce would've fixed both of them, because he clearly took his black one back to the Batcave and we never see him go back to Wayne Enterprises, but a lot of details like that in the film don't really add up and I don't think it matters that much.)

[purpleparadox]

I saw the film again, and I don't know which Batwing Lucius was checking in the ending montage, since the one Batman was flying was blown up by a nuke

There were more than one - the one Lucius was originally showing Bruce was the one that he also was looking at in the end, and he had gotten a second black one to give to Bruce. (What doesn't make sense is why Bruce would've fixed both of them, because he clearly took his black one back to the Batcave and we never see him go back to Wayne Enterprises, but a lot of details like that in the film don't really add up and I don't think it matters that much.)

I think the reason Bruce fixed both of them was to let Lucius Fox know that he had survived. Bruce had been dropping hints to the people who knew he was Batman (fixed Batsignal for Gordon, led Blake to the Batcave, went to café in Paris for Alfred). Fixing the autopilot in both of them was his hint to Lucius Fox.

[jimmycarry]

Guy's I'm big fan of Batman. I have watched all three movies of its series. Recently i have seen The Dark Knight Rises. Which looks really nice to me. I like it so much and soon i will watch it again....