Star Wars: The Clone Wars: season 3 discussion

[Darth Jar Jar]

I just noticed something Nahdar Vebb is talking to Anakin in heros on both sides,so this must be a prequel to lair off grievous but ahsoka has grown a bit and changed out fit

Edited November 22, 2010 by Darth Jar Jar

[commanderneyo]

I just noticed something Nahdar Vebb is talking to Anakin in heros on both sides,so this must be a prequel to lair off grievous but ahsoka has grown a bit and changed out fit

That's not Vebb it is a Jedi Called Eekar Oki who appeared briefly in Grievous Intrigue. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eekar_Oki

[sok117]

I just noticed something Nahdar Vebb is talking to Anakin in heros on both sides,so this must be a prequel to lair off grievous but ahsoka has grown a bit and changed out fit

Looked lke Vebb to me, and Oncanda Far was in this episode as well putting it before senate murders.

[ADHO15]

Considering that Padme and Bail are the targets, I'd say not.

Thanks for another predictable episode, CW team!

Farr too. It looks like a good action-packed episode.

What do you want them to do? We know what's going to happen to these characters, so they can either do failed attempts or successful assassinations of new, single-episode characters. 'Senate Murders' tried to spice things up with the killing of a known character, but I recall that was disliked too.

Looked lke Vebb to me, and Oncanda Far was in this episode as well putting it before senate murders.

commanderneyo's right, it's Eekar Oki. The colouring is completely different to Vebb. And we know this episode comes between 'Heroes on Both Sides' and 'Senate Murders'.

Edited November 22, 2010 by ADHO15

[Forresto]

Yeah! Cantina band senators! or as they are really called, Bith senators!

Nope not Farr, he was to purple while Farr was more Ackbar like. Also in the episode commentary by Filoni, it seems like this episode precedes next week's episode which continues in Senate Murders. Think of it as a three parter with us already seeing the final one as senate Murders.

1st part: Heroes on Both Sides

2nd part: Pursuit of Peace

3rd part: Senate Murders

[The Legonater]

Considering that Padme and Bail are the targets, I'd say not.

Thanks for another predictable episode, CW team!

Still, it would be interesting to watch. Although it's hard to say if Bail and Padme are the only targets are not- this could be like a amped up version of Senater Murders.

[Corvus]

Got around to seeing the new episode...

-The opening debate is amusing. A massive Republic, spanning thousands of worlds and systems, is unable to fund a relatively small war. The war has only been running a few years now, and with 1.2 million clones? The Grand Army must be expensive, in that case. I know growing and training clones for ten years must be expensive, as well as providing them with the most advanced vehicles and starships in the galaxy. However, compared to the sheer size of the Republic, this must be a drop in the bucket. Coruscant alone has roughly a trillion inhabitants. Coruscant alone might be able to pay for the war. The Republic must have insanely low taxes or an incredibly terrible budget.

-Ahsoka's comment about Padme 'getting along well' with Anakin was hilarious.

-I'm not sure why Grievous has to give a briefing/pep talk to a bunch of droids.

-I love the ship that brought Ahsoka and Padme to Raxus.

-It's interesting just how ignorant of her own side Mina Bonteri is. This is probably similar to the majority of the Seperatist population. While there may be some good politicians who wanted to get away from the Republic (which is clearly corrupt), most are in there for their own interests. It's amazing how Mina hasn't noticed this. Perhaps she's too angry at the Republic for her husband's death (it was a neat detail specifically mentioning clones as the killers).

-Poor Commander Fox. Stuck checking identities for maintenance droids. What a good use of all that training...yup.

-The demolition droids were awesome.

What's all this talk about a romantic relationship between Ahsoka and Lux? Aside from giving each other attracted looks, I didn't see anything happening between the two of them beyond a general friendship. And I don't think we'll be seeing the Bonteris again, so there's no chance for them to get more serious.

He was definitely ogling her.

[sok117]

He was definitely ogling her.

Oh yeah, no question. Ashoka should have said "Is that a lightsaber in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"

[The Legonater]

-The opening debate is amusing. A massive Republic, spanning thousands of worlds and systems, is unable to fund a relatively small war. The war has only been running a few years now, and with 1.2 million clones? The Grand Army must be expensive, in that case. I know growing and training clones for ten years must be expensive, as well as providing them with the most advanced vehicles and starships in the galaxy. However, compared to the sheer size of the Republic, this must be a drop in the bucket. Coruscant alone has roughly a trillion inhabitants. Coruscant alone might be able to pay for the war. The Republic must have insanely low taxes or an incredibly terrible budget.

This is a quesion somewhat answere din EU. For one, Palps is stealing money for his secret army when he swaps to the Empire. Also, the fact the Republic spanning thousand of worlds is part of the reason they can't fund a war- which, mind you, isn't really small.

Edited November 23, 2010 by The Legonater

[DarthSion]

Oh another episode with senators.

Why is it not on this weekend?.

[Forresto]

-The opening debate is amusing. A massive Republic, spanning thousands of worlds and systems, is unable to fund a relatively small war. The war has only been running a few years now, and with 1.2 million clones? The Grand Army must be expensive, in that case. I know growing and training clones for ten years must be expensive, as well as providing them with the most advanced vehicles and starships in the galaxy. However, compared to the sheer size of the Republic, this must be a drop in the bucket. Coruscant alone has roughly a trillion inhabitants. Coruscant alone might be able to pay for the war. The Republic must have insanely low taxes or an incredibly terrible budget.

-It's interesting just how ignorant of her own side Mina Bonteri is. This is probably similar to the majority of the Seperatist population. While there may be some good politicians who wanted to get away from the Republic (which is clearly corrupt), most are in there for their own interests. It's amazing how Mina hasn't noticed this. Perhaps she's too angry at the Republic for her husband's death (it was a neat detail specifically mentioning clones as the killers).

Let me argue your two points if you'll let me BTW I don't mean to sound rude if it seems that way.

1) Yes they don't cover this much in the show or any of the film but the GAR is expensive. The Republic commando books cover this pretty well and talks about how the war is funded (especially book 3). One Venator costs at the least a billion credits, considering how large it is and the technology inside it. Now if the Republic has hundreds of venators in it's fleets then thats trillions of credits there. Now each star fighter probably costs several million credits a piece and the Republic has lots and lots of them. They seem to lose both venators and smaller ships at an exponential rate which requires them to be constantly manufacturing more of them. You need workers to build new ones and you have to pay them. Then you need lots and lots of fuel to power the ships so they can actually move, and to fuel a ship. Then you need to take in for account that they will need to have bases outfitted with places to supply this fuel. If you have to build star bases those themselves would cost a small fortune, maybe several billion credits a pop. Then you need to train clones and other personnel to crew the ship. They will need food and lots of it because ships that large will have large complements. Starfighters need bombs and torpedoes so each one would probably cost several thousand. This is only money the navy would need allocated to it.

The ground forces need armor, guns, ammunition which would cost well into the billions for an army of 1.5 million troops. These troops need tanks and other support vehicles and considering that the Republic uses a large range of vehicles, this would cost billions. These vehicles would get destroyed in battle and then they would need to manufacture new ones. I honestly don't think I need to go on and that said, the grand army of the republic would cost quadrillions of credits. Pile that on top of everything else a civilization as large as the Republic needs to use for regular things and it's pretty easy to see why they would be going bankrupt.

2) I know what your saying here, I do. However I personally think that it wasn't that she was unaware of the separatist's leaders being bad people but that they were better then the corrupt Republic leaders. Remember, Count Dooku has been preaching that the sith have taken control of the Republic and that they need to leave the Republic. It's really the Republic that's pressing the war. Besides Palpatine is the true evil one of them all, and even Yoda doesn't realize it until it's too late. We know from watching as an audience of what the Count's done, but maybe the Separatist senate doesn't. We've always been treated to the Republic side of things and seeing the Seps as bad guys. I think the point was that only some of the seppies (Grievous, Dooku, Ventress) were bad but that the Seps were'nt evil or bad. The Seps see the Republic as the Republic sees the seps.

Sorry for my nerdage

[JimBee]

I still don't get why this is a prequel episode, yet the characters look different. Nothing can be perfect, but I wish they would've waited to redesign the characters until they were done with screwing with the timeline.

Why is it not on this weekend?.

Thanksgiving. And before you go on a rant about it being an American holiday, remember that it's an American cartoon airing on an American channel.

[Corvus]

Let me argue your two points if you'll let me BTW I don't mean to sound rude if it seems that way.

Not at all, not at all.

1) Yes they don't cover this much in the show or any of the film but the GAR is expensive. The Republic commando books cover this pretty well and talks about how the war is funded (especially book 3). One Venator costs at the least a billion credits, considering how large it is and the technology inside it. Now if the Republic has hundreds of venators in it's fleets then thats trillions of credits there. Now each star fighter probably costs several million credits a piece and the Republic has lots and lots of them. They seem to lose both venators and smaller ships at an exponential rate which requires them to be constantly manufacturing more of them. You need workers to build new ones and you have to pay them. Then you need lots and lots of fuel to power the ships so they can actually move, and to fuel a ship. Then you need to take in for account that they will need to have bases outfitted with places to supply this fuel. If you have to build star bases those themselves would cost a small fortune, maybe several billion credits a pop. Then you need to train clones and other personnel to crew the ship. They will need food and lots of it because ships that large will have large complements. Starfighters need bombs and torpedoes so each one would probably cost several thousand. This is only money the navy would need allocated to it.

The ground forces need armor, guns, ammunition which would cost well into the billions for an army of 1.5 million troops. These troops need tanks and other support vehicles and considering that the Republic uses a large range of vehicles, this would cost billions. These vehicles would get destroyed in battle and then they would need to manufacture new ones. I honestly don't think I need to go on and that said, the grand army of the republic would cost quadrillions of credits. Pile that on top of everything else a civilization as large as the Republic needs to use for regular things and it's pretty easy to see why they would be going bankrupt.

Let's put the size of the army in perspective. The U.S. military is estimated to spend roughly $692 billion for 2010. And this is all spent on 1.5 million troops. This is all coming from a country with about 307 million people in it, plus or minus some non-taxpayers. Our current military budget is about 10% or so of our national GNP. It rose to about 40% during WWII. I'm going to use some very vague numbers here, so bear with me- this is going to be an incredibly rough(and bad?) example of what the Republic might be capable of. Let's use the amount of money the U.S. is presumed to have spent by the end of 2010- $692 billion. This is coming from a country of 307 million people. Let's roughly scale that up to the population of Coruscant- that's like multiplying the U.S. population by 3,300(rounded). If we scale the military budget up, too, we get: $2,300,000,000,000,000. That's right: 2.3 quadrillion. According to Wookiepedia, a Venator costs 59 million credits. That makes 389 million Venators. There aren't enough clones in the GAR to operate on this many Venators! So, let's see how many Venators we can reasonably use with the size of the GAR, 1.5 million troops. The crew is 7,400, with enough room for 2,000 extra troops. We'll make an assumption that a number of crew is civilian- let's say, oh, 5,000. So, we'll make room for 4,400 clones on each Venator. That makes for enough clones to operate 341 Venators. The cost of 341 Venators drops us $20 billion, which leaves, oh, $2.9997 quadrillion left for military purposes. There's no need to calculate the cost of starfighters (300+), tanks(24), and gunships(40)- because it's nothing compared to the sheer amount of money that could be there.

Now, there is going to be a massive difference between our military and the Republic's- the costs of transportation, for one, are going to be astronomical (pun intended...). Look what happened to the British- it was incredibly difficult for them to maintain a war overseas. The same with the U.S. Obviously, the same for the Republic fighting on many, many fronts the Galaxy over. However, this is still nothing, compared to the taxpayer money available. And don't forget, we still have 500 or so other planets in the Republic- not nearly as huge as Coruscant, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if we could double the $2.3 quadrillion we already have.

Of course, this doesn't quite fit perfectly. How much can the Republic afford to put to it's military? We don't know. It must be expensive to run a Republic of that size. Neither do Credit or Dollar fit together perfectly- I've just put them equal to each other for now, but I've heard all sorts of currency conversions- from a credit being equal to a dollar, to five dollars, up to 10 dollars.

Tell me if my math is wrong. I don't work in mathematics or economics, nor do I use such big numbers so often.

2) I know what your saying here, I do. However I personally think that it wasn't that she was unaware of the separatist's leaders being bad people but that they were better then the corrupt Republic leaders. Remember, Count Dooku has been preaching that the sith have taken control of the Republic and that they need to leave the Republic. It's really the Republic that's pressing the war. Besides Palpatine is the true evil one of them all, and even Yoda doesn't realize it until it's too late. We know from watching as an audience of what the Count's done, but maybe the Separatist senate doesn't. We've always been treated to the Republic side of things and seeing the Seps as bad guys. I think the point was that only some of the seppies (Grievous, Dooku, Ventress) were bad but that the Seps were'nt evil or bad. The Seps see the Republic as the Republic sees the seps.

Sorry for my nerdage

This is very fuzzy. We don't know much about Mina. However, it seems to me that Dooku is portrayed as a saint in the CIS. It seems to me that citizens on both sides are being told lies about their own leaders, but the CIS has the short end of the stick.

Sorry for my nerdage, as well.

[ADHO15]

Nope not Farr, he was to purple while Farr was more Ackbar like.

What does this mean?

Still, it would be interesting to watch. Although it's hard to say if Bail and Padme are the only targets are not- this could be like a amped up version of Senater Murders.

As I said, Onaconda Farr as well. You can clearly see him being attacked 18 seconds into the video.

I still don't get why this is a prequel episode, yet the characters look different. Nothing can be perfect, but I wish they would've waited to redesign the characters until they were done with screwing with the timeline.

However, I do believe none of the redesigned characters featured in Senate Murders, so there's nothing wrong with the costume change. I've not checked the episode itself, but the Appearances say that the Jedi and Palpatine aren't there.

None of the senators changed their wardrobe, so there's nothing out of place.

[DarthSion]

I still don't get why this is a prequel episode, yet the characters look different. Nothing can be perfect, but I wish they would've waited to redesign the characters until they were done with screwing with the timeline.

Thanksgiving. And before you go on a rant about it being an American holiday, remember that it's an American cartoon airing on an American channel.

Yet they air that sissy football.

Any word on when they air the night sisters story

[General Magma]

Yet they air that sissy football.

Any word on when they air the night sisters story

Well, I believe the two are about the same (in the Opress story, the nightsisters do appear), so that would be January the 7th.

So that's still quite some time away from now. But I'm looking forward to it.

~ General Magma

[JimBee]

Of course, this doesn't quite fit perfectly. How much can the Republic afford to put to it's military? We don't know. It must be expensive to run a Republic of that size. Neither do Credit or Dollar fit together perfectly- I've just put them equal to each other for now, but I've heard all sorts of currency conversions- from a credit being equal to a dollar, to five dollars, up to 10 dollars.

What? How can anyone even begin to compare the currencies of a real world with that of a fictional? Who says SW credits are even closely proportional to the U.S. dollar?

In any case, it does make sense. The only thing that's strange is that the SW galaxy consists of... well there's not a number that I know that I could put here. Let's just say Coruscant has quadrillions upon quadrillions of people (assuming it's roughly the size of Earth), and that's covering the whole planet, plus building up, and digging under. Then multiply that number by a few thousand worlds (I know, not all are as populated as Coruscant). Not even two million clones to protect that many people? Let alone fight against a droid army that should be considerably larger considering they're produced by the thousands in factories, non-stop.

Well, I guess that much of SWU cannot be made sense of. Including money, armies, and diplomatic policies.

Yet they air that sissy football.

Do I even bother?

[Professor Flitwick]

Do I even bother?

Maybe DarthSion would be slightly more inclined to enjoy football if a team were sponsored by The Force Unleashed; it's the only thing he seems to like.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Professor Flitwick

[DarthSion]

Oh no 1.7.11 rats, and I am going to be out in the sticks.

Yeah i figured the Savaage was tied to the night sisters.

I meant to ask, what was with that thing in the preview clip where it looked, well like Shang Tsung soul suck.

Better not go on about 300 pound whales in padding.

[commdr_neyo]

I don't believe this one hasn't been linked yet.
The fact that this episode will include Selkath is awesome!
I've liked those creatures since they were in KOTOR!

[General Magma]

*snip*

I don't believe this one hasn't been linked yet.

The fact that this episode will include Selkath is awesome!

I've liked those creatures since they were in KOTOR!

Selkath? I've seen that video before, but I haven't noticed the Selkath! That's awesome.

They were one of my favorite species from KOTOR, so it's nice to see them back here again.

~ General Magma

[XimenaPaulina]

Well, I believe the two are about the same (in the Opress story, the nightsisters do appear), so that would be January the 7th.

So that's still quite some time away from now. But I'm looking forward to it.

It looks like they are connected, and probably Ventress' story. Has this been pointed out before?

During the Clone Wars, Asajj Ventress found disfavor with Count Dooku and fled to her home planet of Dathomir. She then planned to get Dooku an apprentice that she would secretly control. Dooku soon visited the planet and met an intermediary, the Dathomiri witch, Mother Talzin, who introduced him to Opress. The warrior was said to be related to Zabrak Sith Lord Darth Maul which was something Dooku couldn't resist.

From Savage Oppress' wiki page

Edited November 28, 2010 by KielDaMan

[General Magma]

It looks like they are connected, and probably Ventress' story. Has this been pointed out before?

From Savage Oppress' wiki page

Uh oh. This leads me to believe that Savage Opress is Asajj Ventress in disguise.

But why does Dooku want to kill her, as seen in those trailers?

~ General Magma

[XimenaPaulina]

Uh oh. This leads me to believe that Savage Opress is Asajj Ventress in disguise.

But why does Dooku want to kill her, as seen in those trailers?

It looks like it will be that way. My first impression of Savage is that he's a ruthless brute mercenary that is easily manipulable by someone as cunning as Ventress.

Regarding Ventress, by the description that "Asajj Ventress found disfavor with Count Dooku", maybe Dooku just saw her as a failure who's not deserving to be his apprentice and he finally gave up on her, leading him to look for another apprentice, and Savage's supposed ties with former Sith Darth Maul is just "too much for Dooku to resist".

[Corvus]

Regarding Ventress, by the description that "Asajj Ventress found disfavor with Count Dooku", maybe Dooku just saw her as a failure who's not deserving to be his apprentice and he finally gave up on her,

If we're going by that logic, then Grievous ought to have been killed off in the first season.