Has TLG ever borrowed ideas from AFOLs?

[Superkalle]

We all know many AFOLs borrow ideas from official Lego sets, but how is the other way around? Are there examples when TLG has used specific and clearly identifiable designs or techniques from an AFOLs MOC? As a backgrounder, here's a quoute from TLG that I copied from the official LEGO.com forum:

Every year we receive hundreds of thoughtful and imaginative LEGO suggestions from both adults and children. However, it is necessary for us to have a policy in place which prohibits any acceptance of such ideas by us, however unkind this may seem. One of the reasons for this policy relates to the long time- period needed by our product development team to plan, research and develop new products. [probably around 2 years, my comment]. During this time period, a consumer may submit a similar idea for a new item to our Company, and therefore, believe the new product is due to his or her idea. To avoid confusion with regard to the idea, we must politely decline all outside ideas.

I guess this is a fair policy. TLG would end up in an unmanageable situation if they "borrowed" ideas from outside the company. But even so, does anyone know of examples when TLG has used designs that are so unique that its unambiguous they must have come from outside the company?

[blueandwhite]

Well, LEGO has collaborated directly with fans to produce sets such as Dan Siskand's Blacksmith Shop 3739 and Erik Brok's Market Street 10190. Other sets have certainly borrowed from AFOLs in more remote ways. The Medieval Market Village certainly shares more than a few similarities with it's precursor the 3739 for example. We also have the ambassador program where fan input has been gathered and shared with the LEGO group over the past several years. If LEGO does decide to borrow an idea, they generally go to great lengths to collaborate with the originator. LEGO has also introduced new elements that were previously only available through fan groups like Brick Forge. The cow, the pig and the new bucket helm are great examples of elements which have previously been available through small fan groups. LEGO's versions are often similar but not identical to the fan molds. It's almost certain that LEGO has made an effort to make their molds sufficiently unique to avoid copyright infringement. In many ways, this isn't unlike other clone brands that have their own slight varriations on the minifig. In other cases the similarities are just too remote. An AFOL may claim to have produced a similar MOC prior to LEGO releasing a set, however the changes are likely significant enough to avoid any copyright infringement. In other situations, similarities are likely coincidential.

[BobaFett2]

Well, LEGO has collaborated directly with fans to produce sets such as Dan Siskand's Blacksmith Shop 3739 and Erik Brok's Market Street 10190. Other sets have certainly borrowed from AFOLs in more remote ways. The Medieval Market Village certainly shares more than a few similarities with it's precursor the 3739 for example. We also have the ambassador program where fan input has been gathered and shared with the LEGO group over the past several years. If LEGO does decide to borrow an idea, they generally go to great lengths to collaborate with the originator. LEGO has also introduced new elements that were previously only available through fan groups like Brick Forge. The cow, the pig and the new bucket helm are great examples of elements which have previously been available through small fan groups. LEGO's versions are often similar but not identical to the fan molds. It's almost certain that LEGO has made an effort to make their molds sufficiently unique to avoid copyright infringement. In many ways, this isn't unlike other clone brands that have their own slight varriations on the minifig. In other cases the similarities are just too remote. An AFOL may claim to have produced a similar MOC prior to LEGO releasing a set, however the changes are likely significant enough to avoid any copyright infringement. In other situations, similarities are likely coincidential.

Yes, this is true but a thing to add. Also, like the Market Street, a few other sets created in lego Digital Designer were released together in large packages, them being

• *

="http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/10191_Star_Justice"]10191*10192*10200*10183*5524*5526

There may be another item or two that belongs on this list.

In addition, there was a My Own Train site in 2003 which allowed fans to create and buy LEGO Trains. Some of these became official sets.

[Superkalle]

I wasn't really refereering to those designs where there was official co-operation with AFOLS, or borrowing from previous LEGO sets. I meant more when TLG have used very distinctive techniques/designs that and AFOL had come up with years before.

[BobaFett2]

I wasn't really refereering to those designs where there was official co-operation with AFOLS, or borrowing from previous LEGO sets. I meant more when TLG have used very distinctive techniques/designs that and AFOL had come up with years before.

I know one, or at least a supposed one. The Spartan from Minifigure Series 2 is supposed to use parts created by Brickforge.

[Milan]

What about using this idea from Thomas Avery about driving the (Excavator) tracks with motors located in the superstructure, through the turntable using driving rings:

New Lego 8043 Excavator seems to have very similar solution:

[Aanchir]

I know one, or at least a supposed one. The Spartan from Minifigure Series 2 is supposed to use parts created by Brickforge.

No, it uses parts similar to those created by Brickforge. It's not like Brickforge was the original designer of Spartan-style armor-- it was designed several hundred years ago and is pretty much in the public domain.

Of course, I've heard rumors that the prelim version might have used Brickforge parts as placeholders, but that doesn't at all mean that Brickforge parts will appear in the final set, or even that LEGO got the idea of such armor from Brickforge. Lord knows Spartans have risen to prominence in the public sphere of knowledge in recent years *cough300cough*, so there's no need to give Brickforge all the credit for bringing that into the spotlight.

Anyway, I haven't been around long enough to know which ideas came from AFOLs and which came from LEGO themselves, but I know for certain that LEGO's been innovating themselves for many years with models like those in the Minilands at LEGOLAND parks. So I'd be very surprised if LEGO for any reason had to use AFOL techniques, when they've got such a gold mine of their own techniques to draw from.

[vexorian]

This would be something TLG would avoid doing intentionally It is fairy possible they would do something that is similar to a MoC without being aware of it though.

[Eilif]

In addition, there was a My Own Train site in 2003 which allowed fans to create and buy LEGO Trains. Some of these became official sets.

This should be clarified. Designs created on LDD and submitted to the my trains site/page did NOT become official sets. The Hobby Train box set included online instructions for 40 different train cars. These designs were created by a group of AFOL's who were pre-selected by LEGO. They designed the cars and LEGO refined them for inclusion in the set.

As to TLG "unofficially" borrowing designs from AFOL's, my personal belief is that it happens from time to time. However, for reasons of liability, copyright, etc, LEGO will never acknowledge any influence by a fan if they did not specifically contract with a fan for a product, design, etc. It makes alot of sense from a legal perspective.

[AndyC]

I think thats deeply unlikely. For every set in existence, I'd imagine TLG has hundreds of documents detailing every step of it's inception, from preliminary drawings right through to the various reworked designs. The chances of anything going through that whole process and even vaguely resembling an AFOL design are rather unlikely. Maybe some tiny detail or construction technique, but even then I suspect it's far more common the other way around.

[Eilif]

I should have been more clear. I was referring to sections of sets, not entire designs. Based on the presentation that LEGO designer Jamie Berard gave on the development of LEGO sets, the process is quite a bit more free-form than you suggest. More than enough room in the process for subassemblies, techniques and other AFOL-originating ideas to be incorporated into LEGO's designs without needing to credit the creator. Personally I think that's ok. I've heard AFOL's argue and make claims is about "who-invented-what-technique" and belive me, it is really is quite pathetic to witness.

However, if you look at the UCS Millenium Falcon and the PepaQuin model that was built before the UCS version you start to wonder if LEGO did "borrow" an AFOL design, how much could they get away with?

[Chris Phipson]

As a matter of fact, I know of an incident where this exact thing happened. My friend, Arthur Gugick built THE Taj Mahal back in 2005. He did a few revisions on it and it was even the center piece of the Australian movie "Taj" (seriously, check it out, very cool stuff).

Here's the link to his original work put out LONG before TLG did.

http://mocpages.com/moc.php/10280

I've talked to him about this and let's just say, he's not too happy with the whole situation. There's a lot more background in to this story but I don't know all the details off the top of my head. So rather than speculate, I'll just say that yes, what you're asking about HAS happened.

EDIT: Also, be sure to check though the entire folder there to see all the different versions he did. This is an issue that is very personal to Arthur and the more people that see this, the better.

~ Chris.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Chris Phipson

[Siegfried]

As a matter of fact, I know of an incident where this exact thing happened. My friend, Arthur Gugick built THE Taj Mahal back in 2005. He did a few revisions on it and it was even the center piece of the Australian movie "Taj" (seriously, check it out, very cool stuff).

You know, I was going to reply and say that it's nothing like the TLG one, but I checked just to be sure and... There is a lot in common, I have to say. I think (ignoring the pool) the official is superior but still, it does make me wonder.

[Chris Phipson]

...but still, it does make me wonder.

Yeap, it really does. Take a look at these two pics that I dug up. The first is one of Arthurs versions

http://mocpages.com/image_zoom.php?mocid=5...466_DISPLAY.jpg

Then here's the one from TLG

http://www.brickset.com/detail/?set=10189-1

Spooky ain't it?

[Space2310]

I seriously can't find the similarities between both builds. Sure, it is the Taj Mahal, but the building techniques are quite different.

[FelixTheCat]

It's lego. There are limits. There is always the possibility of 2 different minds coming up with a similar idea without any influence from each other.

As for the Taj Mahal issue, both parties were attempting to create a perfect replica of a famous building, of course they're going to look similar and have similar elements.

Whinging about TLG stealing designs is a classic case of biting the hand that feeds you. Any AFOL doing so should have their collection confiscated and donated to needy children or something. If you want to keep an idea original, don't tell anyone about it.

[Aanchir]

Now here's something I just thought of that could be considered an example of this. The Raid VPR set from this year's Space Police line is based on the popularity of Vic Viper MOCs (even though it doesn't use typical Vic Viper building techniques). This was confirmed by the designer on Flickr (can't find the image right now, but it's there).

But "borrowing" in that sense is only natural. If something's popular, after all, oftentimes AFOLs want LEGO to take inspiration from those ideas, and LEGO has good reason to do so. It's good business, after all, to cash in on such interests when they present themselves.

[sparkart]

...Take a look at these two pics that I dug up. The first is one of Arthurs versions

http://mocpages.com/image_zoom.php?mocid=5...466_DISPLAY.jpg

Then here's the one from TLG

http://www.brickset.com/detail/?set=10189-1

Spooky ain't it?

I don't think it's spooky at all, because both build-ups attempt to model the same subject. When playing with LEGO, I often find an "enabler", a piece or group of pieces on which, surprisingly or not, the model's success relies upon. There's only so many ways to put the bricks together, so with the number of people playing with LEGO, there's going to be commonality and coincidence.

Just today, while I was mulling entering my Battle Droid and STAP into the LDD competition, I happened upon a MOC that was similar enough in scale and technique that I wondered how this guy ever saw my design. Of course, he didn't see mine, I didn't see his, we just happened upon the same pieces that made it work.

"He didn't see mine, I didn't see his" Whoa. Take that out of context, and that's a bit embarrassing to say.

[LegoDad42]

One of the LEGO Master Builders, Adam on this YouTube LEGO TV Video explains(briefly) the inspirations and build of the Ultimate Collector's Imperial Shuttle. He took, with permission, some build technique's/features of Polish builder (and his friend apparently)DMAC. Here's the link to the YouTube Video...

And here's another link to DMAC's BrickShelf page with details of the Imperial Shuttle Adam and TLG got ideas from... dmac's Imperial Shuttle

You can compare and contrast. One thing to note... dmac's incorporating the landing gear into his model is much better than the separate piece used in the official model. But Adam's model IMHO, is more refined overall.

Edited June 21, 2010 by LegoDad42

[Zerobricks]

Seems like TLG copyed a vast amount of the model. At least dmac will get some recognition

[mortenm]

well i dont know if it was a coincidence, but when i was a little boy :D and got my XXX my father came width an extraordinary cool idea: A tank for compressed air!

at the time he worked as a welder on an oil-rig in the north sea and made a small air tank in metal (i still have it), that i could use with my pneumatics. i even remember i build a special valve so the compressor went off, when the pressure in the tank was heigh enough.

i thought it was a great piece for my lego-model, so i wrote a letter to lego (i'm from denmark, so the letter wouldnt go that far ;)) where i described my fathers creation, and drawed it, so they could se dimensions etc.

they replied that they couldnt use the idea (exactly as explained earlier in this thread), but after some time (i dont remember how long) the first model with an airtank hit the market (Submarine 8250) - my father and I agreed that they stold our idea! :)

as i said, i dont know if it was a coincidence, but if it was, it was a funny one :)

sorry for the lack of english-skills

//mortenm