Have Action Themes Become Extreme?

[vexorian]

As a kid I grew up playing jewels like mortal kombat and doom (in which I didn't know the zombies were zombies, they looked like just soldiers to me). Piracy is the ruler in here so ratings are non-existent. I have not ever killed, smuggled, beaten, taken drugs, drank alcohol or anything. I do not have violent thoughts coming periodically to my mind. I mean really...

And that's just video games. Actual toys with weapons and violent suggestions have been around for ages. Take classic LEGO castle, what do you think the axes and bows were going to be used for?

[PMJ]

I think that Action Themes are definitely more "extreme". I don't have any of the old sets, but I have looked at them on Brickset, and they are more "classical" and have more of a "Towny" feel to them. But as the world changes, many things do, too. Like what Capt.JohnPaul said, a lot of kids (and by kids, I mean 10 years old and younger) are playing more and more violent games, i.e. HALO, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Left 4 Dead, etc. The children are being "desensitized" as all they do are violent videogames, and when real bad things do happen, they either don't care, or think "oh, darn (or swear word of their choice from any of the games I've mentioned...) I wish that could happen in (insert game title)..."

Woah woah woah! Now as a huge fan of Halo, I must say it is NOT random shooting. It has an extremely complex storyline.

[Algernon]

I think that Action Themes are definitely more "extreme". I don't have any of the old sets, but I have looked at them on Brickset, and they are more "classical" and have more of a "Towny" feel to them. But as the world changes, many things do, too. Like what Capt.JohnPaul said, a lot of kids (and by kids, I mean 10 years old and younger) are playing more and more violent games, i.e. HALO, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Left 4 Dead, etc. The children are being "desensitized" as all they do are violent videogames, and when real bad things do happen, they either don't care, or think "oh, darn (or swear word of their choice from any of the games I've mentioned...) I wish that could happen in (insert game title)..."

What kind of kids have you been talking to?

[WesternOutlaw]

I would like to point out that this topic was not meant to discuss the violence level of LEGO themes, but rather the question of LEGO Action themes replacing quality design with fling and flash (sharks with lasers - missiles on motorcycles, high speed, explosions, that sort of "Extreme" action/appeal.

[lightningtiger]

The question is when did sets` headed down this path, it's not new and not limitted to action themes, but castle, space even pirates - they are all full of adventure and more so danger, now with danger - well that's know as extreme these days. With the latest theme, World Racers, it's all dangerous, involing tnt and missiles - boys seem to like dangerous things - knights duelling to the death, someone walking the plank or battling an alien race - is that not extreme too ?

I'm a conformist! everyone !

[hewkii9]

LEGO Action themes replacing quality design with fling and flash

Can good design and flashy appeal not coexist? World Racers is a lazy and unimaginative theme, yes, but I'm going to bring up Dino Attack again. That was the definition of flashy - mercenaries fighting dinosaurs! but it still had solid designs, like the helicopter set.

[blueandwhite]

It's pretty apparent that LEGO has figured out what many AFOLs refuse to acknowledge; most kids can't build that well. I remember the days when LEGO sets used to include photographs of alternate models. Collecting sets was as much about getting bricks as it was about getting a final model. Today sets emphasize play features. It doesn't matter which theme your interested in, building has taken a back seat to those play features. This makes perfect sense when you consider that a large percentage of the target audience never could build that well to begin with (now or in the 80s).

This has very little to do with violence IMO. The 'action' elements in today's sets are tame by most standards. Today's sets are no more violent than G.I. Joe or Transformers were in the 1980s. What has changed is that kids today don't have the same attention spans simply because there are more activities to compete with their time (videogames, internet, phones, etc.). Sets need an instant 'wow' factor to woo potential buyers. There's nothing to say that these sets can't be MOCed into other things, however that is no longer the focus. No big deal really.

[Peppermint_M]

Well, my laptop dies and I miss all this interesting discussion!

If you'd notice my very "I'm new" thread you'll see that my top three favourite themes were Action themes.

And now: Since Time began, stories have always had a good and an evil. The listeners/readers needed someone to root for and someone to boo. There were scenes of darring do and evil schemes. As civilisation progressed, these stories kept their basic tropes no matter how much the medium evolved, nor the new media that became availiable.

Lego Action Themes provide these tropes for fans of Lego and to enthrall children with their exciting features.

Those first themes you cited are more Town than Action. They are mundane, they happen for real and are not so exciting (extreme) to attract the lovers of adventure and imagination. Now, I am by no means disrespecting town/city or its fans. But Action themes provides an exciting backdrop with elements rooted in reality but with features from fiction to grab your attention and run wild with your imagination.

I guess this is why I like it so much

[WesternOutlaw]

Definitely Pep. I love action themes too. Please don't get me wrong. In fact, I love Action and Adventure themes and own quite a few, including a few of the Agent sets. At the same time, I judge sets on the quality of their design. What really got me thinking about this topic is the new World Racers 8864 Desert of Destruction set, especially the Team Truck. I'm looking at this truck which reminds me of Island Xtreme Stunts 6739 Truck and Stunts Trike (from 2002 - which I own). I think the design could be a lot better and more realistic.

I think World Racers and Agents are outstanding theme ideas, a most interesting concept by LEGO. Playmobil had a similar Racers theme. I'm not sold on the new sets though, because of their design. I sometimes judge a set on how well it would look in a City layout with a train passing by it (although I realize that this isn't always fair). A set doesn't have to go with City to be a well designed set.

I picked up Snake Canyon last night. Personally, I think it's the best set of the World Racers theme. I love the lime green dirt bike that goes with my City Camper.

[Aanchir]

Definitely Pep. I love action themes too. Please don't get me wrong. In fact, I love Action and Adventure themes and own quite a few, including a few of the Agent sets. At the same time, I judge sets on the quality of their design. What really got me thinking about this topic is the new World Racers 8864 Desert of Destruction set, especially the Team Truck. I'm looking at this truck which reminds me of Island Xtreme Stunts 6739 Truck and Stunts Trike (from 2002 - which I own). I think the design could be a lot better and more realistic.

I think World Racers and Agents are outstanding theme ideas, a most interesting concept by LEGO. Playmobil had a similar Racers theme. I'm not sold on the new sets though, because of their design. I sometimes judge a set on how well it would look in a City layout with a train passing by it (although I realize that this isn't always fair). A set doesn't have to go with City to be a well designed set.

I picked up Snake Canyon last night. Personally, I think it's the best set of the World Racers theme. I love the lime green dirt bike that goes with my City Camper.

Glad to hear I interpreted your feelings on modern sets wrong. The way you talked about quality being sacrificed for extreme action made you sound kind of like some sort of "prophet of creative doom", so I hope my posts weren't too harsh.

But yeah, considering that LEGO Island Extreme Stunts was eight years ago, and that we've had various quality action themes in the meantime like Atlantis, Dino Attack, and Agents, I don't think you could consider the World Racers truck (which I agree is hideous) a part of some continuing trend, or even LEGO going back to old and unfortunate design choices. Rather, it's just a set where LEGO struggled to cram a lot of content into a set of a purchasable price. And the design suffers for it.

The set actually reminds me of a cruddier version of the 8634 Mobile Command Center from Agents, in trying to cram a lot of content into a 90-dollar set. But as you said, its major flaw is using a lot of large Technic panels where the Agents truck used System detail pieces. The Agents truck had almost 200 more pieces than the World Racers flagship set, and that's just one of the reasons why the set suffers.

But take a look at the other World Racers sets. Despite its cartooniness, Blizzard's Peak has a pretty snazzy design. Jagged Jaws Reef and Wreckage Road both have fairly nice designs, and besides one of the boat hulls in Jagged Jaws Reef and the starting line in Wreckage Road, neither set seems to rely on large specialized molds. Only Gator Swamp uses a particularly specialized piece where a lot of smaller pieces would have sufficed, and a lot of smaller pieces would certainly have driven the price up in place of the large hollow dinghy it currently uses.

Fact is, there will always be good sets and there will always be bad sets. Things are sort of in flux. But as I said, kids haven't changed that much over the years, and LEGO remains above all else a building toy. If kids aren't satisfied with the actual process of building the sets, then LEGO's going to go down the tubes, so they stay true to their mission of creating a high-quality toy.

[brickzone]

It's pretty apparent that LEGO has figured out what many AFOLs refuse to acknowledge; most kids can't build that well. I remember the days when LEGO sets used to include photographs of alternate models. Collecting sets was as much about getting bricks as it was about getting a final model. Today sets emphasize play features. It doesn't matter which theme your interested in, building has taken a back seat to those play features. This makes perfect sense when you consider that a large percentage of the target audience never could build that well to begin with (now or in the 80s).

This has very little to do with violence IMO. The 'action' elements in today's sets are tame by most standards. Today's sets are no more violent than G.I. Joe or Transformers were in the 1980s. What has changed is that kids today don't have the same attention spans simply because there are more activities to compete with their time (videogames, internet, phones, etc.). Sets need an instant 'wow' factor to woo potential buyers. There's nothing to say that these sets can't be MOCed into other things, however that is no longer the focus. No big deal really.

I don't think I so much agree. I think Lego has always clicked best with kids of a particular mindset (who *can* build) but now Lego can have much broader appeal (like Playmobil or better in playability yet still bricks to build with). I don't think Lego has become poorer for the "builder" kids, indeed I think in many ways due to the more realistic sets, the parts actually offer far more building options. Yet due to things like "modular" builds (start by modifying existing sets) kids who are builders are eased into it and not stumped by all the plethora of parts.

I sincerely believe Lego is better than ever in most ways now - and that the small dip in brick quality is *more* than made up for by the relative cheapness of Lego now (and more bricks and big parts *as well* as a load of smaller ones!)

[legitimatealex]

I sincerely believe Lego is better than ever in most ways now - and that the small dip in brick quality is *more* than made up for by the relative cheapness of Lego now (and more bricks and big parts *as well* as a load of smaller ones!)

The thread is about to go off on another tangent with this post, I'm sure of it.

[WesternOutlaw]

The thread is about to go off on another tangent with this post, I'm sure of it.

Why not help it stay on topic then.

[BrickClick]

Yes they have.

But I think thats a good thing.

I prefer the new action packed unrealistic stuff to 4 wide cars driving across bridges and calling it ''action''

Really though I think that action themes have come on a lot and I prefer the new sets to the old ones

[WesternOutlaw]

I think that part of the issue with many action themes now, especially World Racers, is that they're mostly vehicle themes. Many could benefit by having a bridge, some landscaping, a burning/exploded building, or some kind of structure included (even a baseplate).

[BrickClick]

I think that part of the issue with many action themes now, especially World Racers, is that they're mostly vehicle themes. Many could benefit by having a bridge, some landscaping, a burning/exploded building, or some kind of structure included (even a baseplate).

I agree with that!

I just mean that the old sets didn't really have any ''action'' at all.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Woah woah woah! Now as a huge fan of Halo, I must say it is NOT random shooting. It has an extremely complex storyline.

Yes, the humans are defending themselves.

What kind of kids have you been talking to?

Well, since we're brothers, I would know. It's scary having some 4 or 5 year old boy just run up to you in a hotel with no shirt on and talk about all the violent games he plays and the kind of movies he watches. And here is a reply to the reply you made to my comment. I do agree the games like HALO and Rainbow 6 and things like that are fun. But why do we have 4, 5, and 6 year olds playing these games were you kill and do painful things to people, run over people in cars, etc.

I don't see what 6-year olds playing video games has to do with LEGO putting revolvers and lasers in their sets. What video games companies put in their games is up to them, and there are ratings for that. It's up to the parents, responsible or not to decide what is acceptable for their child. But if you mean playing games with LEGO, I don't think LEGO is responsible for influencing people to jack cars and shoot innocents. Most of the violence is against creatures, and judging by the animated movies on the websites, such as having a Rock Monster eat a sulfur crystal and burp, I don't think they mean any harm. None of the weapons are intricate, none really going above or beyond a revolver chamber or trigger. The only real intricacy on a weapon are the gatling guns and silencers, but really, few children view them any different as laser guns. Those that do are inevitable- one child will always be differently influenced than the next. Having weapons on a set doesn't necessarily support that. The gatling guns were from Exo-Force, where humans fought robots. Sure, a child could bring in a city worker from his Garage set and bust a cap in his ABS, but LEGO didn't include anything like that in the initial set to support anything like that. The silencer is on the new Slave I set, on Boba Fett's gun, where they are simply trying to have movie accuracy over violence. The Star Wars sets initially have higher age levels than the City sets.

Regardless of the argument, I still agree with your video game comments- I don't like the idea of adults jumping the ratings systems. They should read the M's and the T's as something their children shouldn't play. I'm just trying to say that LEGO is and always will be for a universal audience, to imagine whatever they'd like. Even if a child views something as a violent weapon, LEGO cannot be held responsible. Thankfully, if a children is able to be creative through playing with LEGO, the company can be held responsible.

I was just saying to all the people that don't understand what's going on. At my school, it is disturbing what everyone talks about. I DON'T think LEGO influenced this violence.

[WesternOutlaw]

I just mean that the old sets didn't really have any ''action'' at all.

I think that's a matter of perspective. I realize that I'm probably way outnumbered in terms of my personal view (being a Classic Town fan here in the Action forum), but one of my favorite sets is Amazon Crossing (a bridge with a 4-stud wide ATV - it even had suspension), as well the entire Outback theme. I think these sets paved the way to themes like Adventurers and Indiana Jones, far from the armed and oversized vehicle sets of Action themes now. That's not to say I don't like the newer Action themes, because I do.

I think ZO6 said it best earlier: the Town/Adventure sub-themes (like Divers among a few of them) were more about exploration. Exploration leads to Action and Adventure as well.

Are sets like this one (in concept) much different than Action themes now:

I was just saying to all the people that don't understand what's going on.

I said this a few times before, but I wasn't trying to get into the violence of toys with this topic. I think this is an entirely different topic of its own.

[BrickClick]

I'm actually going to agree with you there The Brickster.

It depends on what your perspective of ''action'' some poeple may say that its exploration and adventure and some may say its just stuff blowing up

And while I respect your decision I have to say that i agree with the latter

I must say though that the outback theme was great though

[WesternOutlaw]

It's funny. As I look back at some of these Town Adventure sets, like this one for instance:

I'm reminded of seeing them in the stores thinking, how unrealistic is that? Now as I look at them, I wish I had picked them up, admiring the action that they offered.

[Aanchir]

It's funny. As I look back at some of these Town Adventure sets, like this one for instance:

I'm reminded of seeing them in the stores thinking, how unrealistic is that? Now as I look at them, I wish I had picked them up, admiring the action that they offered.

Take it from someone who did have that set-- it wasn't really all that fun compared to today's action themes. The vehicles have no character-- they're just extreme for the sake of being extreme, which I don't find all that impressive. The action features-- for instance, the rockslide feature and the rickety bridge with a turntable on one end-- weren't entertaining for very long, compared to (for instance) the action features of 8633 Speedboat Rescue. And I'm not just talking the cliche flick-fires and net shooter, either-- I'm talking about the sub that detaches from the boat with a flick of a switch, and the jet-ski that bursts out from inside the pier when you press a button.

Note also that it's an example of an action theme set that does have a little bit of environment detail-- in this case, the pier. Other Agents sets like 8632 Swamp Raid or 8637 Volcano Base are almost purely about environments, and sets like 8634 Turbocar Chase, 8969 4-Wheeling Pursuit, and 8971 Aerial Defense Unit all had landscape details to accompany the vehicles which were the theme's focus. Same applies for Atlantis sets. Really, of the sets I remember seeing mentioned in this topic, only Dino Attack and World Racers focused exclusively on vehicles.

Overall, I didn't like the adventure themes that were town offshoots all that much. Favorite action themes from my childhood included Adventurers (although I never really collected any of the sets but the desert ones) and Aquazone. These themes were indeed a lot less realistic than the town offshoots, but they were more exciting. Divers kind of came close, but didn't really have much else going for it. More recent favorites, as I've stated, include Agents, Power Miners, and Atlantis.

I still love some of the town offshoot sets for their nostalgic value, such as 6665 River Runners, which, if memory serves, was my very first set. But Extreme Team and Outback, although I was happy to buy some of the sets, certainly don't hold any special place in my heart, and they're not the sort of sets I'd like LEGO to return to.

[ZO6]

I personally think the Extreme Team theme offered quite a lot of fun and action. What I appreciate the most is that the theme never had to resort to violence. Here you have these four daredevils - racing cars, flying planes, and going on expeditions up at some mountains.

For me, the standout set in the theme was the Extreme Team Challenge. While TLC has released many versions of drag racers or other vehicles/planes, the concept of a set combining many high adrenaline recreational activities into one playset is fairly unique. Here you have a lovely baseplate with some structures on it, a handful of different vehicles, and your four team members out for a good time. Now, I'm sure next to Agents chasing down evil villains, or massive and heavily armed vehicles blasting each other as they race through a desert, the idea of some daredevils out camping might seem kind of lame. Because of a relatively low piece count, no structure or vehicle in the Extreme Team Challenge is particularly impressive, however they all have a purpose and are fully playable. It's the set as a whole that really delivers to offer a good time - using the little buggy with the spring suspension and driving over the bridge, having someone climb the mountain while the raft goes along the river and causes a land slide, the tired daredevil retiring to his tent only to have the floor collapse from under him.

Again, the Extreme Team was about offering lots of fun and playability in the form of adventure and taking risks. Obviously weapons and violence have an undeniable presence in modern society, but it's always nice when action and excitement can come from something other than guns going off or good guys vs. bad guys.

Note: I really just wanted to add that I have nothing against modern action themes, but they just simply don't appeal to me as much. This is coming from someone, who depending on their mood would consider the Adventurers to be their favorite theme. Meaning - I've got a soft spot for sets with baseplates, I like plentiful traps (especially those that are more complex), and I fully admit to having a great time setting up different scenarios of play to act out.

Finally, and most importantly, I think that it is essential to not only have the Town/City themes and the crazy explosion packed actions themes, but to also have something in between the two.

[Aanchir]

I personally think the Extreme Team theme offered quite a lot of fun and action. What I appreciate the most is that the theme never had to resort to violence. Here you have these four daredevils - racing cars, flying planes, and going on expeditions up at some mountains.

For me, the standout set in the theme was the Extreme Team Challenge. While TLC has released many versions of drag racers or other vehicles/planes, the concept of a set combining many high adrenaline recreational activities into one playset is fairly unique. Here you have a lovely baseplate with some structures on it, a handful of different vehicles, and your four team members out for a good time. Now, I'm sure next to Agents chasing down evil villains, or massive and heavily armed vehicles blasting each other as they race through a desert, the idea of some daredevils out camping might seem kind of lame. Because of a relatively low piece count, no structure or vehicle in the Extreme Team Challenge is particularly impressive, however they all have a purpose and are fully playable. It's the set as a whole that really delivers to offer a good time - using the little buggy with the spring suspension and driving over the bridge, having someone climb the mountain while the raft goes along the river and causes a land slide, the tired daredevil retiring to his tent only to have the floor collapse from under him.

Again, the Extreme Team was about offering lots of fun and playability in the form of adventure and taking risks. Obviously weapons and violence have an undeniable presence in modern society, but it's always nice when action and excitement can come from something other than guns going off or good guys vs. bad guys.

Note: I really just wanted to add that I have nothing against modern action themes, but they just simply don't appeal to me as much. This is coming from someone, who depending on their mood would consider the Adventurers to be their favorite theme. Meaning - I've got a soft spot for sets with baseplates, I like plentiful traps (especially those that are more complex), and I fully admit to having a great time setting up different scenarios of play to act out.

Finally, and most importantly, I think that it is essential to not only have the Town/City themes and the crazy explosion packed actions themes, but to also have something in between the two.

Hey-- I respect that. But frankly, Extreme Team just never felt like it was pulled off too well. The four main characters are daredevils. You never get the idea that they're in actual danger while doing this sort of stuff-- this is where they live, and what they do. I, too, respect non-violent themes, but in all honesty Extreme Team never felt like much was at stake.

Contrast that with the City theme. Even in that, what do the firefighters do? They fight fires. If they don't do it right, people could be hurt, buildings could be destroyed, etc. There's actual risks that drive the conflict, even though there's no need for violence. Same with the Coast Guard sets-- they're actually doing something to help people who would otherwise be in danger. It's a lot more exciting than Extreme Team, which as I said was extreme for no reason other than for the sake of looking cool. Heck, the Res Q theme, a city subtheme itself, predated Extreme Team, and I found a lot more enjoyment in that theme because of its dire atmosphere. There was something meaningful driving the action.

This isn't to say I disliked Extreme Team sets at the time (it was a theme that I enjoyed for its radical, rebellious image), but I have few fond memories of the sets, and the sets were basically forgotten when newer, more exciting themes like Alpha Team and Star Wars rolled along.

[KotZ]

For me, I prefer Agents, Adventurers/Orient Expedition, and Alpha Team. Agents and Alpha Team were more of the same, but they still were a load of fun, to me. Alpha Team was just your straight up action fights with interesting vehicles, but Agents soared. They had a tongue-in-cheek style with their vehicles and buildings, and a lot of references to 007. BreakJaw= Jaws?? Inferno=Blofeld?? Sharks= Austin Powers????..... i know many have pointed out these references, but I felt the need to.

Adventurers allowed kids to "see the world" and go on different "adventurers" and was really based in history. Just look at the structures, or the Marco Polo idea for OE.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

For me, I prefer Agents, Adventurers/Orient Expedition, and Alpha Team. Agents and Alpha Team were more of the same, but they still were a load of fun, to me. Alpha Team was just your straight up action fights with interesting vehicles, but Agents soared. They had a tongue-in-cheek style with their vehicles and buildings, and a lot of references to 007. BreakJaw= Jaws?? Inferno=Blofeld?? Sharks= Austin Powers????..... i know many have pointed out these references, but I felt the need to.

Adventurers allowed kids to "see the world" and go on different "adventurers" and was really based in history. Just look at the structures, or the Marco Polo idea for OE.

Don't forget crocodiles in the Swamp Raid set and in 007 (I think live and let die) 007 was being fed to crocodiles in a swamp and he escaped.