No weaponry and violence in City sets?!

[Lyichir]

I grew up with toy and real guns. After 40 years, I have yet to shoot another living creature. There are millions more like me. Make that billions.

Now, with your thoughts, tlg should stop making starwars and other violent licensed sets. a gun is a gun, plastic or real and just about every starwars mini fig comes with a gun. I see no difference between a make believe war that took place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away and a cop chasing a yellow mini fig through a swamp.

And yes kids should be tought that cops have real wepons and will use them. Every year you hear about some kid pointing a toy/bb gun at a cop and the cop shoots them. But nothing i say here will change anyone's opinion.

There is no real need for this tread. It will only turn into a flame war and get shut down like 100% of all the other we need army set treads ever made

The problem with including guns in sets isn't necessarily that people who play with them will grow up to be violent. The problem is that it makes sets less appealing to people for whom that kind of realistic, modern violence hits close to home. The United States has a huge problem with gun violence. Parents who have lost family members to gun violence are not necessarily going to be keen on getting their children a Lego set depicting an actual shootout between criminals and police. Meanwhile, other countries have different scenarios—for instance, in England, Scotland, and Wales, police typically don't even carry firearms, and as such buyers there might consider Lego City Police carrying guns to be unrealistic (or at least, less relatable).

Now, one might argue that a few lost sales from those customers might not be that big a deal in the long run. But consider this—how many sales do you think Lego City loses due to the lack of firearms? I can't really picture any scenario where a buyer would look at a Lego City set and think "I would buy this set if only it had guns, but since it doesn't, I'll pass." By omitting guns from Lego City, Lego avoids controversy that could lose them customers, while there's not much potential benefit to be gained by including them.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Lyichir

[xboxtravis7992]

I vote No to armed Lego City cops. It is a nice break from more violent themes. And if I do want something more dark... I have enough Star Wars guns to arm my Lego Police Force of 4 outstanding cops! Yeah I have only four Lego cops... I have more Galidor sets then I have cops !?

But I wouldn't mind Lego guns in a City set if it was something like "Skeet Shooting Range Adventure." That is gun use in a non-violent way.

[Legocitycustoms]

Besides, Lego cops don't need guns. They can simply overwhelm the bad guys through sheer force of numbers. There's one cop for every two or three citizens!!

I lolled so hard....

[Meisterschnorrer]

I´ve voted no.

Lego City needs no weapons!

In my Lego City everything is fine.....in Germany we say "Friede, Freude, Eierkuchen", what means: "Peace, Happyness and Pancake"

[Kaanere]

Could this be the first lego City gun?

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=16499

There is people that say that it is a baton, but look at how it is holded...

[lightningtiger]

Could this be the first lego City gun?

http://www.eurobrick...attach_id=16499

There is people that say that it is a baton, but look at how it is holded...

Nightstick really, but it's Lego call it what you imagination will.

Only thing missing was a riot shield, then we can totally say baton/nightstick.

[neonic]

Pretty funny topic I think.

- Pirates have swords and boats loaded with cannons

- Star Wars stuff is full of laser guns

- and those medieval ... those knights are not really sweaties either with their swords, war hammers, sphere's, big catapults ...

So ... don't know what's wrong to give a cop a gun?

Think just a gun is harmless, but thinks like tanks, bombs and sort of stuff goes too far.

And if it's all violet or not ... 'normal' kids should know the difference between fantasy and real. Otherwise they are pretty screwed up in their head.

I played cowboy when I was a kid, with fake guns, played games like Unreal, Quake and Carmageddon. And I don't kill people or run them over with my car

This, for example, is what my 7y-o daughter made (OK, after watching Daddy play a lot of Doom):

So old an already a twisted mind (just kidding)

(Reminds me that I had to order some of those skeletons and skulls for my moc)

Edited December 19, 2015 by neonic

[Richard Dower]

i voted no, TLG would take alot of flack from certain groups if they included weapons as these are toys intended for young children.

it is not worth the PR headache it would create.....

[El Garfio]

i voted no, TLG would take alot of flack from certain groups if they included weapons as these are toys intended for young children.

it is not worth the PR headache it would create.....

Ok, from now star wars sets without weapons: no more blasters, light sabers, laser/ions canons,... No swords on pirates, knights, Lotr, ninja go,... No muskets on Victorian soldiers. No guns. From now, The Lone Ranger has to chase the bad boys using only a lantern and a walki

[JanetVanD]

It would have to be a "no" for me. In fact, I'd prefer less weaponry in the other themes too. (That doesn't stop me buying them, though!)

[ShaydDeGrai]

I'm gonna go with "no". They have unarmed police to deal with non-violent offenders and if things get out of had they can just get on the radio to call the Theme Dispatcher and have them send in Ultra Agents or the Avengers as a sort of uber-SWAT team.

In real life I'm not "anti-gun" (within reason). While I don't own one, I've handled firearms, gone target shooting, have a good friend who is a nationally ranked marksman, etc. so I appreciate that there is the potential for a "teachable moment" by introducing armed police, etc. to CIty kits, but it's not up to LEGO to decide when (or if) that lesson should be given. That's something each parent needs to decide for themselves and their family; by "bundling" weapons with one of the few lines that _doesn't_ have weapons, TLG would be forcing an agenda by making the question inescapable.

So I'm fine with keeping the out-of-the-box City themed sets weapon/violence free. It's like a "G" rated movie in the US; Grandma doesn't need to preview it to make sure it doesn't have any potentially objectionable material before putting it in front of her grandchild. If you want to add guns and SWAT teams and National Guardsmen to quell the rioters in _your_ city to make it more realistic, that's fine and it's easy to do, but as a marketing device, especially at this time of year, I think there's a certain wisdom to the idea of having a Theme you can point a non-AFOL gift-giver toward and say, "any of these would be a great gift for your grandchild," without having to worry about the individual family's take on guns, or violent play, or religion, or gay rights, or excessive move/TV tie-ins, etc.

[Legogal]

I like Shay's response. We need a safe theme like City where grandparents do not have to worry about too many weapons in sets they may want to give junior and his sister Juniorette. All kids will make up guns of some sort to play with, but selling City sets without them is a real plus for parents. While my young son did enjoy his pirate, SW and cavalry sets, he played the most with his City sets. That made Mom very happy! We are not saying that TLG should not make these other themes, just that it is nice to have a line that does not include guns. Let's show our children and grandchildren that they can have plenty of fun without shooting up each other.

[BrickAddict90]

I'm certainly not anti-gun; I own several firearms in real life and go to the nearby shooting range on a monthly basis. However, it is somewhat strange seeing one in a City set. As far as I'm aware, this has never happened before in any other City set. Especially considering the crooks still have just their crowbars and dynamite, and not guns themselves. One of my favorite themes is Western, and it was great seeing all the rifles and pistols in those sets as it helps with the realism of days in the American West. It's great seeing blaster pistols and lightsabers in Star Wars sets, and swords and bows in Castle sets, etc. These weapons have always been present in those particular themes.

I still have this set on my "to buy" list, but I probably won't include the gun in my city layout (as Lego City is the only gun-free zone that has ever worked as such). But I will admit, it is very strange, odd and out of place seeing a gun in a City set. We could all be wrong and it could really be something else entirely however.

[Aanchir]

And if it's all violet or not ... 'normal' kids should know the difference between fantasy and real. Otherwise they are pretty screwed up in their head.

I played cowboy when I was a kid, with fake guns, played games like Unreal, Quake and Carmageddon. And I don't kill people or run them over with my car

Kids generally DO understand the difference between fantasy and reality, but that's precisely why guns in LEGO City are more of a problem than guns in historical, sci-fi, or fantasy themes. LEGO City and LEGO Friends are supposed to represent the world kids actually live in, not fictional worlds or our world from another point in time. Dangers in LEGO City are more immediate and real than dangers in LEGO Ninjago or LEGO Star Wars or LEGO Castle. Most kids never have to worry about being attacked with a katana or a laser cannon or a battle axe, but deaths from guns, both intentional and accidental, are incredibly common in many countries in the present day.

LEGO City tends to omit many types of scary situations, not just guns. Fires for LEGO City firefighters to put out are usually trash fires, warehouse fires, or fires at abandoned buildings, not (populated) house fires, plane crashes, or car accidents. Ambulance and hospital patients or people rescued at sea never have conspicuous wounds. The scariest things you'll find in LEGO City are dangerous animals like crocodiles, sharks, or bears, and those are clearly deemed kid-appropriate even for preschoolers, since they appear even in the LEGO Duplo theme!

[El Garfio]

Being a victim of a crock could be also traumatic for a kid and there are a lot of people that live in insecure zones in where they can be assaulted, robbed, kidnapped, raped,...

And having policemen armed with a lantern and a walkie-talkie chasing crocks that have dynamite, knives, axes, saws, crowbars,.... don't help to give kids the sensation of being safe. And could give kids a biased explanation of why bad boys ever win.

No weapons? OK, but not crock also and less in the high percentage (there are more crocks than citizens in every year city sets new releases).

And no weapons in any LEGO Themes. If we want a non violence toy is not acceptable claim a naif happy people city on where all is awesome and accepting, acclaiming and buying licensed or old ages themes full of weapons and justify them because they are based on fantasy stories that happen a long time ago or far, far away.

Only creator, basic (buckets of bricks) and naif themes like Friends or Princesses are acceptable for LEGO from now.

[Aanchir]

Being a victim of a crock could be also traumatic for a kid and there are a lot of people that live in insecure zones in where they can be assaulted, robbed, kidnapped, raped,...

And having policemen armed with a lantern and a walkie-talkie chasing crocks that have dynamite, knives, axes, saws, crowbars,.... don't help to give kids the sensation of being safe. And could give kids a biased explanation of why bad boys ever win.

No weapons? OK, but not crock also and less in the high percentage (there are more crocks than citizens in every year city sets new releases).

And no weapons in any LEGO Themes. If we want a non violence toy is not acceptable claim a naif happy people city on where all is awesome and accepting, acclaiming and buying licensed or old ages themes full of weapons and justify them because they are based on fantasy stories that happen a long time ago or far, far away.

Only creator, basic (buckets of bricks) and naif themes like Friends or Princesses are acceptable for LEGO from now.

This has gotta be the least coherent post I've seen in this topic so far. It's like watching a car crash.

Not all LEGO sets are aimed at the same audience, nor do they all have the same tone. I don't think anybody would argue that LEGO Duplo should be as violent as LEGO Star Wars, so as thick as you're pretending to be in this post, I'm guessing you DO understand that LEGO can have both violent and non-violent themes without contradicting itself. City just happens to be a non-violent theme. Could that change? Maybe! But it doesn't HAVE to change just because other themes like LEGO Ninjago or LEGO Star Wars are more violent. LEGO has every right to decide how violent each of their individual themes should be without declaring all violence off-limits in all themes.

Your bit about crooks is irrelevant. LEGO City crooks don't carry weapons of any kind, so I don't see why LEGO City police need to carry weapons either. In LEGO City, a crowbar is a tool (as it was INVENTED to be) not a weapon. Pretty much all crimes depicted in LEGO City sets are non-violent crimes like theft and trespassing.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Aanchir

[CrispyBassist]

The cars in England have wheels, even though the cops don't have guns. I think since at heard it's aimed at children the guns are not needed in the City theme.

[El Garfio]

The "no weapons for city because it's for kids" is not a valid argument because ninjago, TMNT, Chima are also for kids and have weapons.

I think all the themes are made by the same brand (TLG). Coherence is not selling salads and high calory burguers, neither selling light soda and hypersugared milkshakes. Neither giving money to save the whales and using plumbed paint or contaminate the rivers.

If you want your brand to be associated with not violence you have to be coherent and don't sale toys with weapons. If you don't care violence of weapons in licensed, historic o futurist themes, don't send messages of having violence free toys.

Samples of Junior sets with weapons

Due to it, it's parents responsibility decide what they want to teach their kids. Enviroment and education received is what going to drive kids playing. If kids want weapons on LEGO city they are going to make them with a piece of plastic and if kids don't want weapons they are going to take them appart from the plot of their playing even if they are playing with star wars, pirates, chima, ninjago, knights sets.

[CrispyBassist]

Sometimes, not enough.

...

Ha! Alright, points for that one!

[Aanchir]

The "no weapons for city because it's for kids" is not a valid argument because ninjago, TMNT, Chima are also for kids and have weapons.

I think all the themes are made by the same brand (TLG). Coherence is not selling salads and high calory burguers, neither selling light soda and hypersugared milkshakes. Neither giving money to save the whales and using plumbed paint or contaminate the rivers.

If you want your brand to be associated with not violence you have to be coherent and don't sale toys with weapons. If you don't care violence of weapons in licensed, historic o futurist themes, don't send messages of having violence free toys.

Here's the issue though. This is not a matter of whether violence is inappropriate for kids or inappropriate for the LEGO brand. It's about whether violence is inappropriate for specific lines of LEGO products. Arguing that if some themes have weapons, all themes should have weapons is like arguing that because some themes have action figure sets, all themes should have action figure sets. Or that because some themes have TV shows, all themes should have TV shows. It ignores the differences between themes and assumes that LEGO is being hypocritical unless they use the same strategy with every single one of their product lines. When really, a strategy that is effective for one theme might not be as effective for different themes.

There are plenty of food companies that DO offer both healthy and unhealthy food options. There's nothing remotely contradictory about having both healthy and unhealthy options, just as there's nothing contradictory about LEGO having both violent themes and non-violent themes. The whole point of having options is that they're different from one another, even if they come from the same source. If I owned a pharmaceutical company and I sold drugs for treating low blood pressure and drugs for treating high blood pressure, that wouldn't make me a hypocrite. It would just mean I was selling different products to satisfy different needs. Same goes for selling toys that depict violence and toys that don't depict violence.

LEGO does not pretend that all their toys are violence-free. They used to, back in the days of classic space when they liked to say that all those aggressive, glowing, forward-facing antenna pieces were "radar arrays" and "sensors", but nowadays they are much more honest about the fact that conflict play is a natural part of childhood development, and that many LEGO toys include conflict play. That doesn't mean they can't have standards about what level of violence is appropriate for what themes, and how close to reality that violence should be.

Samples of Junior sets with weapons

http://images.bricks...pg?201404040702

http://images.bricks...pg?201404080234

https://pbs.twimg.co...ZZoUsAU4PW-.jpg

Yep, there are Duplo Castle and Pirates sets with weapons too. Nobody's disputing that. However, none of the Duplo or Juniors sets with weapons are based on the real, modern-day world. A kid who understands the difference between fantasy and reality is not going to be worried about a medieval knight or an old-timey pirate or a magical ninja or a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle killing their family, but the possibility of a criminal or a police officer killing their family is an extremely frightening reality in many countries, so LEGO can't just treat lethal, real-world, modern-day violence like a fun play scenario for kids.

[xboxtravis7992]

^ I like the idea someone mentioned that Lego themes inherently have "ratings." City being a G rating, Ninjago and Ultra Agents more in a PG, and Bionicle, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and other themes as PG-13. Despite being a gun owner myself; I don't bat an eye at Lego City lacking weapons, it fits the rating. For example I would be shocked to see an armed Police officer on Sesame Street, and shocked to see an unarmed one in Batman's Gotham City.

[dr_spock]

Here's LEGO's response in a Gizmodo article from a few years ago:

Why did they changed the founders rule to never make gun like elements?

The company still has a no gun policy when it comes to realistic or military play scenarios. However, in order to stay true to the strong licensed properties we incorporate to the Lego portfolio, we need to stay true to those properties and sometimes that involves including weapons. In our own play themes, some element of good vs. bad conflict is typically considered to provide for role play opportunities. In those instances, the setting is very clearly a fantasy world.