LEGO Collectable Minifigures Series 3 discussion

[vexorian]

Do we even have confirmation that the cyborg has a Blactron B?

If he did, just think about Wrench (I think that is his name). One of the alien minifigs in the last wave of Space police 3. Tons of old timers like me, got that set because Wrench clearly had a blacktron uniform. But I think tons of new fans still liked the set because Wrench was a cool alien and the ship it comes with is very cool.

In the case of a cyborg with a Blacktron B in the torso. It is the same. Kids will like a cyborg/space pirate fig/whatever. But old space fans will also dig the fact that the character seems to be a Blacktron officer. Everybody wins.

And no, it is not because he is recognizable or not. Blacktron 1-2 never looked like that minifig, so it does not work that way...

My rule is: You get what you get and you don't through a fit.

Just kidding, but remember: these are just toys. You don't need to hoard them for selling or a moc.

Anyway, why would you spend more than two dollars on one of the minifigs? Remember, when they first release, you have to be one of the first there to get the one you want: by picking a random bag.

If I want the cyborg (and I do). I will have to buy at least 20 of these figure bags on average before getting it. That's 40 USD on a single minifig. On average, most people will be spending a lot more than 2 USD on the figs. I do not mind doing such a hunt or search, but I do mind if the hunt and search is for a low quality minifig. It would make the whole thing pointless.

Oh they are just toys but that does not mean I should accept a low quality product. They may be just toys, but my money is still my money, so I should not go around wasting it on low quality plastic.

There is a reason why LEGO puts these in random bags so you don't hoard them or sell them.

lol. Seriously. If anything putting them in random bags promotes hoarding them and selling them.

Time for another rule: Finders keepers losers weepers

I am happy that there will be no barcodes on these packets.

So moral is: You spend money once to get one that is completly random, and after you open it, you don't cry

ONTO the plastic:

So I should spend my money and shut up about the quality? What if the minifig comes without a piece ? (like happened with some reports) Just shut up and accept what I got? What if the plastic is so bad that it breaks or splits after any use? I should just be happy I spent 2 USD on a minifig that didn't last hours?

Half the worlds toys and machines are made in China.

I don't care if it is made in China. I do care if the printing is horribly off (making the fig useless for displays) or if the plastic looks awful (again, making the fig useless for display) or if the colors are so off I cannot combine the fig's accessories with other stuff (making the fig useless for MoCing) or if the legs are too loose (making the fig useless for playing).

Edited September 24, 2010 by vexorian

[Aanchir]

If I want the cyborg (and I do). I will have to buy at least 20 of these figure bags on average before getting it. That's 40 USD on a single minifig. On average, most people will be spending a lot more than 2 USD on the figs. I do not mind doing such a hunt or search, but I do mind if the hunt and search is for a low quality minifig. It would make the whole thing pointless.

Correction: That's 40 USD on 20 minifigures of equal value. If you can't learn to appreciate them then don't buy more than you want. Or, for that matter, don't buy any at all and just wait for LEGO to put a just-as-appealing design in a regular set (which is certain to happen in due time). It's not like by not getting a cyborg you've lost anything. Rather, it's just a fig you don't have, and frankly, there will always be figs you don't have.

Oh they are just toys but that does not mean I should accept a low quality product. They may be just toys, but my money is still my money, so I should not go around wasting it on low quality plastic.

As I said, my figs are not low-quality, and I haven't seen any pictures of Series 2 figs with low-quality plastic. It's not like China has some ancient curse that keeps quality products from being produced within its borders. When there's a problem, LEGO puts forth an effort to fix it, just as they've always done.

So I should spend my money and shut up about the quality? What if the minifig comes without a piece ? (like happened with some reports) Just shut up and accept what I got? What if the plastic is so bad that it breaks or splits after any use? I should just be happy I spent 2 USD on a minifig that didn't last hours?

None of the reports I've heard involve plastic that breaks after use. And why has nobody made similar complaints about the Rock Monsters or Space Police alien heads, which come from the exact same facility?

Really, problems do happen with all sets (or in fact any product that's mass-produced), and I'll admit that it is a bigger risk with the collectible figs-- not because they are more prone to problems than any other sets, but rather because parts that are missing or broken cannot be replaced by LEGO Customer Service. But, as I've said, you can either take that small risk, or pass up the figs entirely-- and neither option will do you any harm in the long run.

I don't care if it is made in China. I do care if the printing is horribly off (making the fig useless for displays) or if the plastic looks awful (again, making the fig useless for display) or if the colors are so off I cannot combine the fig's accessories with other stuff (making the fig useless for MoCing) or if the legs are too loose (making the fig useless for playing).

None of my figs have poor plastic quality, poor printing (besides the yellow-on-red printing of the surfer, which is only slightly bad and certainly no worse than other printing disasters that happened before the Chinese facility was a glimmer in an executive's eye), or poor color (again, I have had genuinely bad-quality parts from long before the Chinese facility existed, and the Collectible Minifigs aren't even remotely bad in comparison). The leg and arm joints, if anything, are firmer on my four collectible figs than on any of my non-Chinese figs, and have remained such after about a week of play. I highly doubt you have anything to worry about at this stage.

[CP5670]

If you can't see any color problem with the minifigs, try holding one up to a light source alongside a normal minifig. At least for certain colors, you should notice the translucency right away (this isn't actually necessary to see the difference, but it accentuates it). The plastic also seems rougher in some way and lacks the shine and reflectivity that regular Lego parts have. I think this is what people mean when they say that the minifigs are low quality.

[Lego Star Wars Pwns]

Can someone post a link for the pics please? I've been back to page 20 and I can't find it. Thanks.

EDIT: Ah found them. Page 19.

Heres what I think of the figs:

Hula Girl - Nice pieces, I like the hairpiece. Other pieces look exclusive (correct me if I'm wrong), overall, a good fig.

American Chieftain - All right, could be better I.E. exclusive pieces insted of ones which have been made before.

Samurai - Nice fig! He'll be a must-get fig, to go with the ninja and spartan. Pretty good, exclusive pieces too. Nice job Lego.

Pilot - Nice! One of the closest figs we've had so far to go in WWII. I like the new bomber jacket too.

Fisherman - I'm liking that new beard, and the fish and rod! I'm pleasantly surprised, I expected it to not be that good.

Cyborg - The guns quite good, but the details are a little tricky to make out. Quite good, but could be better. I like the leg!

Snowboarder - She could have a race with my skier! Looks like a load of exclusive pieces, making for a fine figure.

Racing Car Driver - What can I say - Lego made this fig a couple of years back with the Ferrari liscence. Pure remake.

Guy with radio - Looks a little wierd, but looks like hes 100% exclusive. Overall, a nice little fig, with a great new accesory (radio)

Elf - My other must-get, he looks AMAZING! I love the new shield, and the body and leg pieces look exclusive too. To sum it up,

Sumo Wrestler - Bor-ing. Plain yellow torso, plain yellow legs, the karate kids trophy - honestly, the most interesting thing is the hairpiece.

Alien - Interesting. Looks like a space police head, but then I never got any of those. A great addition to my collection I should have had anyway!

Mummy - I like this! Mummy figs have been done before, but this is definatly new - and great! Lovin' that head and scorpion!

Tennis player - Pretty good. Love the racket, rest of the stuff is all right, but not brilliant.

Baseball Player - Love the new baseball bat and cap, looks pretty good anyway. But i should come with a baseball.

Gorilla - Hahaha! Fantastic. I simply MUST get this. Love it. By the way, thats quite a large banana. Pieces are exclusive and great!

Edited September 24, 2010 by Lego Star Wars Pwns

[Itaria No Shintaku]

I don't care if it is made in China. I do care if the printing is horribly off (making the fig useless for displays) or if the plastic looks awful (again, making the fig useless for display) or if the colors are so off I cannot combine the fig's accessories with other stuff (making the fig useless for MoCing) or if the legs are too loose (making the fig useless for playing).

I see your point but honestly don't fit the case. I mean, there is people who says that's cheaper plastic and people who says that it's even better. Honestly, for what I can see, it's same plastic as last years. We don't get the 90's plastic that was really better... but in the 90's I paid the equal of now $150 for my first Pirate Ship, so paying $2 for a single minifig sounds really a bargain to me. This plastic it's not that disaster that someone is depicting... I said, it can be a little cheaper, but not THAT cheaper. I'm not afraid of part breaking, getting easily loose, or for the paint to wear off. And since I own about one thousand minifigs, not nuggets, I know what I mean :)

[fred67]

Yeah... my two cents on the "quality" is that I honestly haven't noticed anything unusual...

If the quality were so bad you couldn't put it on display, and that was the norm instead of the incredibly rare exception, I'd agree... but I just haven't seen any figures that were "off" enough for me to notice... in fact, I haven't noticed anything "off" at all.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, of course, but then it happens occasionally in regular sets, too.

[Masked Builder]

Can someone post a link for the pics please? I've been back to page 20 and I can't find it. Thanks.

Well here's the last one on the internet I think...

Edited September 24, 2010 by Masked Builder

[muscleman]

I wonder if it's possible to accurately predict what will appear in future series of minifigures, now that we've seen three and kind of know what to expect? There have been lots of 'what do you want to see?' discussions, but not many 'what do you actually think is likely?'

Sports figures... soccer player with ball; golfer with club and ball; hockey player with stick and puck.

Historic figures... Greek philosopher with tablet, Roman legionnaire, Scottish highlander with claymore (reusing the Islander girl's skirt as a kilt), girl in dirndl, boy in lederhosen.

Music figures... guitarist, keyboarder, violinist.

Space figures... different kinds of alien; retro-type space adventurer like Flash Gordon.

Western figures... sheriff with rifle; prospector with pick axe, gold ore.

City figures... fireman, builder, businessman, graduate, reporter, etc. etc. forever.

Fantasy figures... wizard, king, prince, princess, queen, knight. Or, any of those with the word 'dark' in front of it.

Pirate figures... pirate, redcoat, bluecoat, male Islander, conquistador.

Random figures... absolutely impossible to guess, hence the term 'random'.

agree with this subdivision

Edited September 24, 2010 by muscleman

[BearHeart]

If you can't see any color problem with the minifigs, try holding one up to a light source alongside a normal minifig. At least for certain colors, you should notice the translucency right away (this isn't actually necessary to see the difference, but it accentuates it). The plastic also seems rougher in some way and lacks the shine and reflectivity that regular Lego parts have. I think this is what people mean when they say that the minifigs are low quality.

Great Points!! This is exactly what I mean by cheap quality.

- The edges, especially on the legs, are sharp.

- The plastic is rough and translucent, most notably the hands because they are so thin.

- A lot of the parts have an unLEGO like color dullness to them, especially the brown pieces.

[Aanchir]

Great Points!! This is exactly what I mean by cheap quality.

- The edges, especially on the legs, are sharp.

- The plastic is rough and translucent, most notably the hands because they are so thin.

- A lot of the parts have an unLEGO like color dullness to them, especially the brown pieces.

- Sharp edges means more precise molding. How is that not a sign of higher quality? Clone brands like Mega Bloks have blunt and sometimes even uneven edges.

- I spent a long time this afternoon with my figs up to a light source. And yes, the legs were marginally translucent compared to more dated figs (the hands had no problems for me). However, this is dealing with my brother's desk lamp, an incredibly bright light source that causes my eyes to hurt if I stare at it for more than a second. It was only a slight difference, using a much stronger light source than will be used to backlight any display of the figs. As for roughness, I perceive no difference on most parts-- on others the collectible fig parts seem smoother than older figs.

- I don't have any brown parts in the collectible figs I got and haven't the foggiest idea what "color dullness" is supposed to mean. But all of my collectible fig parts match up perfectly with other LEGO parts. I was a bit unsure about the dark bley binoculars in my explorer fig, but when I compared them to those in the Space Police set Space Truck Getaway, they were in fact more solid and more vibrant than those from a standard set. And even that was a scarce difference between the two shades-- certainly not nearly as great as the difference between pre-2005 and post-2005 Dark Red parts.

Overall, these signs of alleged "cheapness", just like the lack of neck printing and the molding marks under the arms, say nothing about the collectible figs having lower quality. I really am finding less and less reason to believe that there are actual quality issues with the current series of collectible figs and more and more reason to believe people are taking past flukes as evidence that no Chinese parts can be of standard LEGO quality. And it's a great disrespect to LEGO to assume that they are actively ignoring quality issues for cost reasons. They spend such a great amount of money ensuring quality (even thoroughly experimenting with new formulations of plastic long before they make any changes in production) that they ought to at least be given credit for paying attention to the quality and consistency of their products, no matter where they're produced.

[vexorian]

- Sharp edges means more precise molding. How is that not a sign of higher quality?

There is sharp and there is too sharp. In minifigs, there are a lot of places that are supposed to be round-ish. Anyway, excessive sharpness is something that remains me of bootlegs. It is not just sharpness, but you feel sharpness in places were there shouldn't be an edge, hard to explain.

Another thing that must be underlined is that in the case of Minifigure Series 1 and 2, the problems with quality were not caught during early reviews and pics, but until a lot more people had access to them. It seems that the problem is not a consistent bad quality but that there is a lot of variance.

Edited September 24, 2010 by vexorian

[CP5670]

Overall, these signs of alleged "cheapness", just like the lack of neck printing and the molding marks under the arms, say nothing about the collectible figs having lower quality. I really am finding less and less reason to believe that there are actual quality issues with the current series of collectible figs and more and more reason to believe people are taking past flukes as evidence that no Chinese parts can be of standard LEGO quality. And it's a great disrespect to LEGO to assume that they are actively ignoring quality issues for cost reasons. They spend such a great amount of money ensuring quality (even thoroughly experimenting with new formulations of plastic long before they make any changes in production) that they ought to at least be given credit for paying attention to the quality and consistency of their products, no matter where they're produced.

This is really not the case anymore. It is more accurate to say that TLG has understood that a slightly lower level of quality is imperceptible to the vast majority of consumers. The opacity problem is very widespread and has been ongoing for well over 3 years now. It involves these minifigs but is by no means limited to them, and it came about due to a switch to a cheaper production material. If you honestly believe that TLG is still trying to fix this issue, I have a bridge to sell to you.

However, you're right about the square marks, etc., not being actual problems, and I certainly don't think that the Chinese factory is itself at fault. In fact, as I have said before, I find it a little strange that many people have complained about these collectible minifigs but apparently don't notice some of the exact same issues in the bricks in regular sets. And conversely, I also find it amusing that many people who claim not to notice any of these issues in Lego are also the first to rag on clone brands for the same problems. (I'm not necessarily referring to you here)

[Mrlegoninja]

If I want the cyborg (and I do). I will have to buy at least 20 of these figure bags on average before getting it. That's 40 USD on a single minifig. On average, most people will be spending a lot more than 2 USD on the figs. I do not mind doing such a hunt or search, but I do mind if the hunt and search is for a low quality minifig. It would make the whole thing pointless.

We have a collectable minifigure trading thread here. You could trade them for the fig you want. I am pretty sure it is not going to be the, "spartan", of series 3. And there is a chance you will get yours in the second bag you buy.

So I should spend my money and shut up about the quality? What if the minifig comes without a piece ? (like happened with some reports) Just shut up and accept what I got? What if the plastic is so bad that it breaks or splits after any use? I should just be happy I spent 2 USD on a minifig that didn't last hours?

That rarely happens! It happened in a few peoples minifigures! I got my bags and none missed a piece! I did not get any defective pieces either! You said,"What if", and the chance that that will happen is less than 10%.

I don't care if it is made in China. I do care if the printing is horribly off (making the fig useless for displays) or if the plastic looks awful (again, making the fig useless for display) or if the colors are so off I cannot combine the fig's accessories with other stuff (making the fig useless for MoCing) or if the legs are too loose (making the fig useless for playing

Like I said, that rarely happens! And if it does, don't cry! Thousands of medicine and machines get recalled everyday! They might harm people, but a little piece of plastic will not do a thing! So you can't use it, move on!

I agree with Aanchir. These are not cheap quality; just different plastic

[legogirl19]

I have to say when I first saw the rumored list of the series 3 minifigs, I was all too excited for the elf, only to be slightly disappointed! Only because I was thinking it would be more along the lines of "santa's helper" type elf. Or as Peppermint_M put it "he could be wearing a smurf hat and have a candy cane" was exactly what I was hoping for! Maybe Lego will incorporate that minifig in the Holiday Themed sets.

Although, on the other hand I think TLG did a great job with the elf from the fantasy stand point. I definitely can foresee that the elf has the army build possibility. I personally think my favorites are the "sports" themed ones of this series and possibly the gorilla, if "filled-out" more. I think the only one I may want several of is the baseball player, to build a team!

Edited September 25, 2010 by legogirl19

[vexorian]

That rarely happens! It happened in a few peoples minifigures! I got my bags and none missed a piece! I did not get any defective pieces either! You said,"What if", and the chance that that will happen is less than 10%.

As high as 10% is, the real number may as well be 1 in 1000, but that's still too big of a number... Even if it happened rarely, it is little consolation, costumer support has been terrible in regards to these figures due to the artificial scarcity.- the people that received the worst part of the variance cannot do anything about it.

Machines get recalled everyday, but flawed, expensive, hard to find LEGO collectible minifigures get more expensive regardless of the low quality and there is no solution in horizon.

Correction: That's 40 USD on 20 minifigures of equal value. If you can't learn to appreciate them then don't buy more than you want. Or, for that matter, don't buy any at all and just wait for LEGO to put a just-as-appealing design in a regular set (which is certain to happen in due time). It's not like by not getting a cyborg you've lost anything. Rather, it's just a fig you don't have, and frankly, there will always be figs you don't have.

Out of the point. The problem I have is not that the search is hard (if you look at my posts in the initial times of series 1 I did not really have a problem with that) but that the figs' actual quality makes the search not worth it. Hey, I wouldn't mind spending in 20 of these figs if they were usual quality, but all points out that they aren't. And we can just assume that plastic differences are subjective, but printing differences are not subjective and that is a clear case in which these figures are doing worse than what you find in sets... Which I find it lame, because giving the status as collectibles and that they are so horrifyingly hard to find, they should have used better overall quality than usual.

The quality is different, hey even the kind reviewers note it even though they say it is not a big deal.

Edit: Ok, just for context, assuming that Series 3 will not have bar codes, and that the rarity distribution is similar to series 1, you will need 52 blind purchases in average to get a whole set. So even if you do actually want all of the figs, you are actually paying 6.5 each, and that is going to be without counting the hoarders. Great?

Edited September 25, 2010 by vexorian

[Itaria No Shintaku]

As high as 10% is, the real number may as well be 1 in 1000, but that's still too big of a number... Even if it happened rarely, it is little consolation, costumer support has been terrible in regards to these figures due to the artificial scarcity.- the people that received the worst part of the variance cannot do anything about it.

Ok, it shouldn't happen, but if it is 1 in 1000 it means that I throw away $2 every $2000 I spend? Well, I can stand this. And I wouldn't call Customer Care for one bugged minifig over 1000, I mean, I wouldn't be terrified if my minifig lacked hairpiece, or head... things like these can happen. If it happens just on the minifig I missed to complete my collection it would be really bad, but like stickers if you miss one or two, you just buy them on ebay or bricklink and that's all. I'm not saying it is right it happens, just... if it does, odds are so low that I can buy that.

Out of the point. The problem I have is not that the search is hard (if you look at my posts in the initial times of series 1 I did not really have a problem with that) but that the figs' actual quality makes the search not worth it. Hey, I wouldn't mind spending in 20 of these figs if they were usual quality, but all points out that they aren't. And we can just assume that plastic differences are subjective, but printing differences are not subjective and that is a clear case in which these figures are doing worse than what you find in sets... Which I find it lame, because giving the status as collectibles and that they are so horrifyingly hard to find, they should have used better overall quality than usual.

It seems to me, but I may be wrong, that it's already been reported that this difference between minifigs in sets AND collectable ones, is kinda false. I mean, I owe all the 32 minifigs and I just bought some Atlantis ones... and I really see no differences at all. I already read on this thread that the "cheaper" plastic is used both for collectable minifigs and for standard sets, but both me and the writer of that post may be wrong.

Before reading these posts about Series 1 & 2 plastic, the only thing I managed to note with some friends of mine, was that the point of the spartan's (I'm hoarding them, in my city it's possible, since minifigs are bought mainly by kids who ignore the barcode factor) spear is kinda "gummy", which surprised me because it's a huge difference related to common castle spear. But! My thoughts weren't negative. Of course some steps away from rigidity can only make me think that this part will break very hardly!

The quality is different, hey even the kind reviewers note it even though they say it is not a big deal.

Alas, we fail on believing that we are the target for TLC's products. I mean, why would they still put "from A to B years" on catalogs or boxes, if they were designed for adults? Sure, they are collectable minifigs but that doesn't mean that they are targeted for adults. My two cents they are pointing on following the gold mine which are collectable trading card games, or collectable figures of any kind... and the NINJAGO theme confirms my thoughts. They are toys, they can break, they are scheduled for being used and plaied. They do not deserve severe review since that would mislead their basic purpose: being plaied by kids. Even if TLC knows that many adults will collect them, I feel like we are a huge minority if compared to their actual target. And I can't feel betraied, it's just the way it is.

This said, I actually find minifigs perfect, I don't blame about quality because perhaps I'm naive but I really can't see that difference this reviewers and somebody (not everybody) says here. Sorry for repeats, but I really find a little nitpicking all this thread about quality... I'm ending to find myself either too naive, too profane, or maybe just not so fussy.

Edit: Ok, just for context, assuming that Series 3 will not have bar codes, and that the rarity distribution is similar to series 1, you will need 52 blind purchases in average to get a whole set. So even if you do actually want all of the figs, you are actually paying 6.5 each, and that is going to be without counting the hoarders. Great?

Not really that. I mean, and also this has already been reported... according to your scheme, the overall cost is $104... and you can really buy a box for less! (Here, I will buy a box of series 3, already ordered at my trustful shop, for $90) And in that you can get not 1 but 3 complete series. Assuming you can't find a way, it would cost in the worse case $120, but if you find two pals, since there are 3 complete sets in, you pay just $40 (instead of $104, it's a great saving) and you also get 12 doubles to divide (maybe you get someone you really wanted to have in doubles).

Kids, the ones all this is designed for, won't buy boxes (I don't see any parent doing such a thing!) while adults will choose that way to easily complete the set... and TLC will make everyone happy. What if they didn't put 3 complete collections in the box? THIS WAY they would have forced everybody to go for random picks... but luckly, you have your exit strategy buying the whole box, as long as this works.

[Ogre]

The more I look at this series of minifigs, the more I think it's got some great potential with regard to 'multiples'. I think it's about equal to series one in that aspect.

As to the 'quality' issue everybody keeps going on about: I really noticed it with series one, especially the nurse and most specifically, her hands. The colour was off and they seemed quite thin...I even got one crushed hand in one of my packs. With the other figs, I was VERY careful putting the accessories in their hands, due to fear of them breaking.

(and to throw in my 'wish list' items...gladiators! Tons of types to choose from...would make a great expansion to their 'historic' figs, IMO)

[yys4u]

I know people are probably sick of hearing this, but I'm going to address the quality issue and break it down to help more people understand.

1st The weight.

If you take a minifigure, strip him of accessories, and do the same with a minifig from a set, hold one in each hand, you should notice a difference. Be sure to switch hands as you are comparing them too so your dominate hand doesn't fool you.

2nd The plastic.

Its clear that they use Chinese parts, its written on the bag. If you look at their heads, you should notice a slight difference in the yellow color. Older figures have a more vibrant yellow color. Also, have you ever heard someone refer to LEGOs as having that "new brick shine" That's something I don't really see as well on the CMF. Again, you can look at the head to compare the shine. Other evidence of cheaper plastic is the transparency, look at the surfers legs at a light, or even the weightlifters. You can see there are translucent.

3rd The mold

You can see more of a mold line on the legs than other figures. There is a definite line down the legs where the two halves of the mold are placed together. While this can be seen on older figures, I don't think its as noticeable. Also, people have mentioned the strange mold mark on under the arm, by the arm pit. Old figures do not have this. And yes I noticed the the Spartans spear, its definitely flexible, I like it this way tho, not a big deal.

4th Joints

I don't think CMF have been around long enough for people to use them and see if the joints are really weaker. I have more than 80 CMF (granted not all are opened yet) and have yet to see any come out of the package with weak joints or missing parts. So this is something left to be seen.

Conclusion.

The molds are probably why they have to use cheaper plastic. TLG obviously had to make new molds for some of these figures, so how could they afford this if they use the same plastic? Remember, they are sold for $2. Now if you think to the LEGO stores where they let you build figures, the price to build is 3 for $10. And With $10 you can get 5 CMF!! So they are obviously cheaper than original figures WITH new accessories that require new molds. So, they had to cut costs in the plastic department.

Now the big issue, is this a problem?

For me, no. There may be a few people that will not want to mix CMF with old figures because of this difference, but I find that chance really slim. I mean, with the head accessories and all, you cant really tell the difference unless u strip the figures down and examine them. I will just be using the figures for display, and maybe MOCs. I've already seen MOCs with old and new figures and there's nothing that stands out, so while I recognize the differences, I'm glad they did it to keep costs at 2 bucks.

Will TLG start using cheaper plastic in regular sets?

That's definitely something I am worried about. I am afraid they will see the profit margin they are getting with the CMF and decide to slowly incorporate cheaper plastic to regular sets. They are already doing this with some sets, mainly any set that requires a new mold. Like rock monsters, aliens, or Atlantis if I'm not mistaken. But then again they will have to allocate more funds into customer support, because I imagine with the more wide spread of cheaper plastic, there is bound to be faults somewhere. We'll have to wait and see, but maybe the people here are right that the TLG is different and actually cares about quality over their profits.

Note: For comparison, I used many series 2 minifigures, and series 1 skater, against 2000 sets such as Castle. I also referenced the 1980s forestmen to get even older plastic in the mix. Speaking of which, the forestman from series 1 DOES HAVE A NEW BOW! Its difference is really minuet, but the angle of the bow string is different and the feathers at the arrow are smaller and also transparent if you hold them to light.

Edited September 25, 2010 by yys4u

[Rick]

Conclusion.

The molds are probably why they have to use cheaper plastic. TLG obviously had to make new molds for some of these figures, so how could they afford this if they use the same plastic? Remember, they are sold for $2. Now if you think to the LEGO stores where they let you build figures, the price to build is 3 for $10. And With $10 you can get 5 CMF!! So they are obviously cheaper than original figures WITH new accessories that require new molds. So, they had to cut costs in the plastic department.

They could also accept smaller margins on the collectible minifigures and compensate it with big production and sales volumes. I don't know how a new mold in this series compares to a new mold for, say, Prince of Persia in terms of total production numbers. And they are even reusing some molds introduced in the earlier series, thus increasing the sales volume.

[dyntar]

Series 3 seems like a bit of a let down.. seems like the only new pieces we are getting are a beard, fishing rod, ski goggles, stereo, elf hair, sumo hair, tennis racket, baseball bat and gorilla head.

In series 1 and 2 almost every figure had a new accessory. series 1 had 12 new bits.. series 2 had 15 .. and so far it looks like series 3 only has 9 new parts. It might change when we see the final products.

Hula girl gooks good..haven't got that hair in black

Indian chief an update with trojan spear...

Samurai.. another welcome update.

pilot... do we really need him?

Fisherman.. great beard.. but otherwise a pass.

cyborg...hmmm... pass

Snowboarder .. shes female thats the only bonus.

Driver........ yeah as if we haven't got enough of those from recent world racer sets.

Rapper .. pass.. but he has some interesting parts

Elf .. That should stop people asking for elves.

Sumo.. angry half naked fig. Don't think I need many of these.

Alien.. send him back to space police

Mummy.. aren't we getting enough mummies with the Pharaoh's quest line?

Tennis player.. nice figure and gives us the nurse hair in a different colour.

Baseball player . pass .. the sports not even played here.

Gorilla.. must get.

So far series 3 has the least amount of figures that I'm interested in.

[vexorian]

Torsos, legs, hands, heads, do not use a new mold. If it was just about new molds, there would not be a reason to use low quality stuff in those parts.

I think that's the problem. Yes, it is thanks to it that it is 1.99 USD, but that's my point, the 2.0 price tag is unhelpful in terms of collectable minifigs anyway. If you want a complete set, you'll be spending 6.46 bucks in average for each fig, not 1.99, and that's assuming you can actually find the minifigs in a retailer. I would have rather prefered they had 6.49 USD prices for minifigs that have better quality than usual and you could even pick what fig to buy. In that case, you would be spending as much as with the current way (unless you abuse bar codes, which is not going to be possible in series 3), but this time, you'll have a good quality fig and you will be able to pick which one...

If instead, the figs were widely available and not random, then using cheaper elements to ensure a 1.99 price tag would have been useful for consumers and it would have been a good idea. But due to the collectible nature and artificial scarcity, it does not help.

Edited September 25, 2010 by vexorian

[Itaria No Shintaku]

I would have rather prefered they had 6.49 USD prices for minifigs that have better quality than usual and you could even pick what fig to buy. In that case, you would be spending as much as with the current way (unless you abuse bar codes, which is not going to be possible in series 3), but this time, you'll have a good quality fig and you will be able to pick which one...

This would be another kind of set. They are collectible, so they must be random in every bag.

And they must carry small prices, nobody would buy a minifig who's random and costs a wage.

Again, we are not TLC's target. Kids are.

[Rick]

Torsos, legs, hands, heads, do not use a new mold. If it was just about new molds, there would not be a reason to use low quality stuff in those parts.

Don't forget the printing. Some printing and molding of dual-colored elements is probably also pretty expensive.

I would have rather prefered they had 6.49 USD prices for minifigs that have better quality than usual and you could even pick what fig to buy.

I'm not a marketing expert, but I have a hunch what one would say about this idea...

[Aanchir]

I know people are probably sick of hearing this, but I'm going to address the quality issue and break it down to help more people understand.

1st The weight.

If you take a minifigure, strip him of accessories, and do the same with a minifig from a set, hold one in each hand, you should notice a difference. Be sure to switch hands as you are comparing them too so your dominate hand doesn't fool you.

Can't notice a difference between my surfer and a fig made from various older parts. Perhaps I'm just not very perceptive as far as weight is concerned. Can't really tell how lighter plastic would be an indicator of lower quality, anyway-- typically, having something lighter weight with the same durability would be an indicator of higher quality.

2nd The plastic.

Its clear that they use Chinese parts, its written on the bag. If you look at their heads, you should notice a slight difference in the yellow color. Older figures have a more vibrant yellow color. Also, have you ever heard someone refer to LEGOs as having that "new brick shine" That's something I don't really see as well on the CMF. Again, you can look at the head to compare the shine. Other evidence of cheaper plastic is the transparency, look at the surfers legs at a light, or even the weightlifters. You can see there are translucent.

You state the fact about Chinese parts as if that's somehow evidence. If there were a known connection between Chinese parts and quality, then it might be evidence, but as it is many known Chinese parts (Rock Monsters from the Power Miners theme, the treasure rings from the Atlantis theme, the Toy Story figs, etc.) have never gotten the sort of criticism in terms of quality that the collectible minifigures have.

The color of yellow is exactly the same as a particular female minifig head I have on hand, which Bricklink says appeared in sets in 2003, 2004, and 2005. It also matches all the yellow parts in my Space Police sets and my Brickmaster 4x4 ATV. In other words, standard LEGO yellow.

I acknowledge the translucency of the legs, which on my explorer are more translucent than a standard tan pair of legs that I have from who-knows-when. The standard tan legs, of course, are still slightly translucent, but not as much as the comparably-colored legs of the explorer. So I suppose it's fair for some people to consider this a quality issue. I personally think it doesn't matter-- the color is still solid and vibrant, and I rarely create MOCs where the figs are backlit.

My collectible figs are also just as shiny as any of my other LEGO parts, including the parts from the Prince of Persia Brickmaster promo which my brother received less than a week prior and the Space Police Central set that we purchased only two weeks prior.

3rd The mold

You can see more of a mold line on the legs than other figures. There is a definite line down the legs where the two halves of the mold are placed together. While this can be seen on older figures, I don't think its as noticeable. Also, people have mentioned the strange mold mark on under the arm, by the arm pit. Old figures do not have this. And yes I noticed the the Spartans spear, its definitely flexible, I like it this way tho, not a big deal.

Comparing my and my brother's figs to the aforementioned tan pants of unknown date of origin, the mold line is just as visible except on the explorer and surfer. And the only reason it is more visible on those two is because the side printing on the legs draws attention to it. Holding the explorer's legs and the standard tan legs and the same angle and distance from my face, the mold line is no more visible on one than on the other, except on printed areas.

The molding mark under the arms is a new and more recent arm mold which will be replacing the arm molds in all factories in a matter of time. If anything, it's superior to the previous one, in that it contains the "© LEGO" mark that should hopefully help prevent illegal bootlegs from duplicating the minifigure arms and torso. In the very least that's the intent.

4th Joints

I don't think CMF have been around long enough for people to use them and see if the joints are really weaker. I have more than 80 CMF (granted not all are opened yet) and have yet to see any come out of the package with weak joints or missing parts. So this is something left to be seen.

The joints to my collectible minifigures are for the most part stronger than joints from my other recent minifigs-- even after a great deal of play. But considering that my collectible figs are still my newest LEGO sets overall, I'll be making additional comparisons with fresh-from-the-box figs from other sources.

Conclusion.

The molds are probably why they have to use cheaper plastic. TLG obviously had to make new molds for some of these figures, so how could they afford this if they use the same plastic? Remember, they are sold for $2. Now if you think to the LEGO stores where they let you build figures, the price to build is 3 for $10. And With $10 you can get 5 CMF!! So they are obviously cheaper than original figures WITH new accessories that require new molds. So, they had to cut costs in the plastic department.

The plastic seems different, but that's not an indicator of cheapness. During a trip home from college once recently, my dad, my brother, and I stopped at the LEGO facilities at Enfield, Connecticut. While we couldn't really go anywhere but the lobby, we were allowed to pick up a copy of the employee magazine/newsletter. There was a very interesting article about LEGO's use of chemicals, emphasizing that LEGO is constantly experimenting with adjustments to their standard ABS formula. Part of this is to ensure quality-- you don't want parts to be brittle and risk broken pieces becoming a safety hazard, and you don't want the plastic to leach chemicals if handled excessively or left in water for a long stretch of time. It was a very interesting article, and I think that it could help explain possible reasons for LEGO to have adjusted the plastic used for these figs.

It's also not clear that the price is a result of lower plastic quality. Remember that one of the main reasons United States or European companies establish factories in China is that labor costs are much lower in China. This, not lower product quality, is why Chinese production is economical. Otherwise, companies could just reduce production quality in their home countries, and as long as there were no safety concerns with the lower-quality pieces they'd have no more liabilities than they would with overseas production.

Now the big issue, is this a problem?

For me, no. There may be a few people that will not want to mix CMF with old figures because of this difference, but I find that chance really slim. I mean, with the head accessories and all, you cant really tell the difference unless u strip the figures down and examine them. I will just be using the figures for display, and maybe MOCs. I've already seen MOCs with old and new figures and there's nothing that stands out, so while I recognize the differences, I'm glad they did it to keep costs at 2 bucks.

Agreed here.

Will TLG start using cheaper plastic in regular sets?

That's definitely something I am worried about. I am afraid they will see the profit margin they are getting with the CMF and decide to slowly incorporate cheaper plastic to regular sets. They are already doing this with some sets, mainly any set that requires a new mold. Like rock monsters, aliens, or Atlantis if I'm not mistaken. But then again they will have to allocate more funds into customer support, because I imagine with the more wide spread of cheaper plastic, there is bound to be faults somewhere. We'll have to wait and see, but maybe the people here are right that the TLG is different and actually cares about quality over their profits.

Again, the profit margin is mostly due to the lower costs of Chinese labor, not reduced-quality plastic. And as I've said, the parts you listed (which, you are correct, are made in the Chinese facility) have not had any egregious quality concerns.

And I agree, LEGO is a company that cares about product quality. The association of "Made in China" with low-quality products is largely a result of no-name bargain brands that produce cheap novelty toys, or other companies with little concern for quality. Unlike these companies, LEGO is a company with an outstanding reputation, and it's unfair to assume that they're just switching to Chinese production so they can stop caring about quality.

It's also worthy of note that every time there was a quality issue raised about BIONICLE parts on the BIONICLE fansite BZPower, you could count on a few noobs coming forth with the explanation "it's because LEGO pieces are made in China". For the most part, these concerns were raised long before there even was a Chinese facility producing LEGO parts, and it was just a special type of xenophobia conditioned into kids by experience with Wal-Mart bargain-basement products.

(Funny story: for my first year of college my brother and I got a pair of desk lamps with included lightbulbs. When we went to open them up last summer (never really needed them before that), we found that the bulbs they were packaged with didn't actually fit the lamps. That's my little story about companies "not even trying".)

Note: For comparison, I used many series 2 minifigures, and series 1 skater, against 2000 sets such as Castle. I also referenced the 1980s forestmen to get even older plastic in the mix. Speaking of which, the forestman from series 1 DOES HAVE A NEW BOW! Its difference is really minuet, but the angle of the bow string is different and the feathers at the arrow are smaller and also transparent if you hold them to light.

For a second, I thought you were saying you'd compared the collectible figs with parts from 2000 separate sets. XD Glad that's not the case. For reference, the four collectible figs I used were all Series 2 figs: the lifeguard, the surfer, the explorer, and the karate master. Again, there is what seems to be a "new mold for an old piece" with the explorer-- the magnifying glass has a transparent "lip" around it that lines up with the black frame. These "new molds for old parts" are an example of something I'll forgive people for classifying as a quality issue. There's probably reasons for most of them, but those aren't plainly obvious in the collectible figs.

[vexorian]

Don't forget the printing. Some printing and molding of dual-colored elements is probably also pretty expensive.

I'm not a marketing expert, but I have a hunch what one would say about this idea...

Yes, I know the reality, that for TLG , 2.99 would have been a fair price for what I proposed so people and specially kids would get them (more so if they can pick the minifig they want).

Again, the profit margin is mostly due to the lower costs of Chinese labor, not reduced-quality plastic. And as I've said, the parts you listed (which, you are correct, are made in the Chinese facility) have not had any egregious quality concerns.

And I agree, LEGO is a company that cares about product quality. The association of "Made in China" with low-quality products is largely a result of no-name bargain brands that produce cheap novelty toys, or other companies with little concern for quality. Unlike these companies, LEGO is a company with an outstanding reputation, and it's unfair to assume that they're just switching to Chinese production so they can stop caring about quality.

TLG have stopped caring as much about product quality as they did in the past. Don't get me wrong, outsourcing and cost reductions does have an effect in collectable minifigs, but overall most recent things are clearly of a different quality than stuff I would see in 2000s. I recently got a Creator "mini robots" set, and most of the white 1x1 plates and cheese split just the third time I built the model...

Recent Bionicle (sans some metru parts and glatorian helmets) tends to have better ABS than system. The flexible plastic used in 2004 is cleary very cheap and some glatorian helmets just seem to use the exact plastic I would seem in bootlegs (ie: Gresh). There is also the breaking sockets which seem like an issue with mold design rather than plastic. System sets I've been getting on the other hand tend to look cheaper than what I was used to. (My dark age started around 2001, and I just came back to system this year)

Edited September 26, 2010 by vexorian