REVIEW: 8684 LEGO Minifigures Series 2

[Rick]

Actually, my caveman's leg printing was alright, as was the Spartan. Especially in the Lifeguard's case I can see with my own eyes how it's clearly misprinted, with the red triangles stretching below the bulge in the legs. Not nice.

Same experience here. It's too low on both copies of the fig I own.

[La Petite Brique]

Great review WhiteFang !

Too bad for french people, Lego France decided to only sell it in January 2011. But we can still buy Series 1 here.

[JopieK]

I think it is stupid that LEGO already got rid of series 1. We AFOL's are likely to buy a whole bunch of them also using our scanner tricks getting full series. But I don't have all of them (the robot and the skater I think). Now in the store I visited they just had 2 (although I hoped to still get some 1 series).

Why is LEGO always giving the impression that they can earn more money than they are earning with ease.

[Legobrandon]

Great review WhiteFang! Lets hope I can find a box and buy one set! Keep up the good work! :)

[fred67]

Definitely. At my local Toys R Us I went the first day they had the minifigs and there were no Spartans at all.

I went to my local TRU and LEGO store and they had nothing at all... when I asked if they had them, they didn't say they didn't them yet, they said the were sold out. Yes, it's definitely a problem for me, as I'm not inclined to go traipsing all over metro Atlanta for minifigures, so I have a box on order (but there is no guarantee, so I have been going - I particularly want the vampires and witches, so even if I get the box I want more of those).

As far as gender bias... perhaps there should be a separate topic about it... It's always amazed me that we need to distinguish between men and women at all (there's even a special EB females group).

[Joebot]

Why is LEGO always giving the impression that they can earn more money than they are earning with ease.

Lego is definitely leaving money on the table. It's a really strange business plan. I have $32 in my pocket that I would love to give to Lego in exchange for 16 mini-figures, but it's like they're pushing the money away. I simply cannot find their product. I've stopped at TRU and my local Lego store every day this week, and I have yet to see a single series 2 figure. They're like the Loch Ness Monster -- people claim to have seen them, but I don't really believe they exist.

So, instead, my money will go to the scalpers and hoarders on the secondary market. I guess you could argue that Lego already got their money when the scalpers purchased the mini-figure, so they don't care about the secondary market. That seems short-sighted to me. Had Lego simply manufactured enough product to meet demand (and actually had some sort of logical distribution scheme here in the U.S.), they could have easily sold, what ... twice as many figures? Three times? Ten times??

[Darth Jar Jar]

Lego is definitely leaving money on the table. It's a really strange business plan. I have $32 in my pocket that I would love to give to Lego in exchange for 16 mini-figures, but it's like they're pushing the money away. I simply cannot find their product. I've stopped at TRU and my local Lego store every day this week, and I have yet to see a single series 2 figure. They're like the Loch Ness Monster -- people claim to have seen them, but I don't really believe they exist.

So, instead, my money will go to the scalpers and hoarders on the secondary market. I guess you could argue that Lego already got their money when the scalpers purchased the mini-figure, so they don't care about the secondary market. That seems short-sighted to me. Had Lego simply manufactured enough product to meet demand (and actually had some sort of logical distribution scheme here in the U.S.), they could have easily sold, what ... twice as many figures? Three times? Ten times??

Well they probably wouldn't sell ten times more because then the scalpers wouldn't buy them because they are easier to obtain. I actualy don't care realy because its so easy to get them here in the UK . Just kidding,I feel bad for everyone in the US not getting any for RRP and have to pay the ebay premium

[fred67]

Lego is definitely leaving money on the table. It's a really strange business plan. I have $32 in my pocket that I would love to give to Lego in exchange for 16 mini-figures, but it's like they're pushing the money away. I simply cannot find their product. I've stopped at TRU and my local Lego store every day this week, and I have yet to see a single series 2 figure. They're like the Loch Ness Monster -- people claim to have seen them, but I don't really believe they exist.

So, instead, my money will go to the scalpers and hoarders on the secondary market. I guess you could argue that Lego already got their money when the scalpers purchased the mini-figure, so they don't care about the secondary market. That seems short-sighted to me. Had Lego simply manufactured enough product to meet demand (and actually had some sort of logical distribution scheme here in the U.S.), they could have easily sold, what ... twice as many figures? Three times? Ten times??

TLG seems to underestimate the US audience a lot. They did it with non-city Advent Calendars and they did it with the minifigures. It seems to me they've already realized their mistake, but it was already too late for Series 2.

I don't think they would have sold ten times more, but at least two or three times. There's truth to what Darth Jar Jar said... one of the reasons they are so scarce is because people knew they'd be in demand and so hoarded them. Even if there was enough to go around (there wasn't, but bear with me), just the public belief that their wouldn't be would have led to hoarding and it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you don't believe the truth in that, look at any situation where there's been a disaster and try to find things like generators and such that had been sitting on the shelves. Whenever it threatens to snow in Atlanta (where I live), the supermarkets have a run on milk and bread for absolutely no reason. A couple of years ago a pipeline that brought gas to the metro Atlanta area was damaged in a hurricane on the Gulf Coast, and even though enough gas was being brought in by truck and via other pipelines, there were long lines at the gas stations and inflated prices because everyone went to top off at every chance... the market had enough gasoline for everyone to have around half a tank (an average amount), but when everyone wanted a full tank because of a perceived shortage, it made the shortage real.

TLG could have played their hands a lot better, IMO, but then I don't run a successful international company, so what do I know... except that they are waiting longer between releases and seemingly will supply more product.

[Legoist]

I think Series 2 is definitely better than 1, so I voted 4/5.

Still not good enough for me to buy randomly, but I have to say that I like about half of the minifigs here. There are many civilians, which perhaps for KFOLs makes the series more boring than Series 1, but for my personal taste at least they're useful... The only drawback is that a lot of them only have one accessory, for 2e a minifig they could at least put more pieces.

[Ogre]

TLG seems to underestimate the US audience a lot. They did it with non-city Advent Calendars and they did it with the minifigures. It seems to me they've already realized their mistake, but it was already too late for Series 2.

I don't think they would have sold ten times more, but at least two or three times...

...TLG could have played their hands a lot better, IMO, but then I don't run a successful international company, so what do I know... except that they are waiting longer between releases and seemingly will supply more product.

Also, rather short-sighted of them to only include THREE Spartans in every box, rather than the FIVE they've included of less desirable characters. They need to think in terms of 'army building'. Sure, grab all sixteen figures for a complete set...but, then what? TLG needs to think in terms of "How do we get people to purchase a WHOLE CRAPLOAD of our product?" Spartans are short-shipped, plus, they are VERY desirable...hence, they are hoarded and will cost INSANE amounts of money on the secondary market. They modeled this 'collectible minifigure' thing on collectible card games but, they forgot that those are GAMES and 'rare cards' work in that context, whereas 'rare minifigures' in a format such as this DOESN'T. These are INTENDED to be collected and traded, unlike say, minifigures in expensive LEGO sets which only appear in THAT set. If you can afford it, you buy it, or you buy the figures later. No big deal. With these though, they're all the same price and all equally sought after initially, due to the 'complete set' mentality of most collectors. After that though, 'rarity' becomes a major issue and many folks will not even bother TRYING to find more, due to how difficult it is and the scarcity of their preferred figures and hence, TLG won't sell as much product as they otherwise would have. "Bad call, Ripley."

[L@go]

Also, rather short-sighted of them to only include THREE Spartans in every box, rather than the FIVE they've included of less desirable characters. They need to think in terms of 'army building'. Sure, grab all sixteen figures for a complete set...but, then what? TLG needs to think in terms of "How do we get people to purchase a WHOLE CRAPLOAD of our product?"

One could argue that they are already thinking along those lines... "We know that our Spartans will probably be extremely popular among AFOLs, so why not make these figures rare? Then they will have to purchase 'a WHOLE CRAPLOAD' (as you so eloquently put it) to get their army."

[Legoist]

One could argue that they are already thinking along those lines... "We know that our Spartans will probably be extremely popular among AFOLs, so why not make these figures rare? Then they will have to purchase 'a WHOLE CRAPLOAD' (as you so eloquently put it) to get their army."

I really don't think people at TLG thinks like that

By the way, are the 3/4/5 minifigs per box really a fixed rate? Is the content of every box identical? That is quite a small difference between the rarest and least rare, compared to rates used by other collectible series.

And about spartans, they have little use for most people because they hardly fit into any existing theme. Army builders are the only AFOLs who are going to want tons of these, but they are just creating their own problem: if it's too hard or expensive, they could have just built a different army.

[Rick]

By the way, are the 3/4/5 minifigs per box really a fixed rate? Is the content of every box identical? That is quite a small difference between the rarest and least rare, compared to rates used by other collectible series.

Yes, yes, and yes, I too consider it pretty fair.

And about spartans, they have little use for most people because they hardly fit into any existing theme. Army builders are the only AFOLs who are going to want tons of these, but they are just creating their own problem: if it's too hard or expensive, they could have just built a different army.

I just have one and don't intend to get any more. It's a beautiful minifig, but I just don't have much use for the minifig or its parts.

[Mr. Elijah Timms]

I just have one and don't intend to get any more. It's a beautiful minifig, but I just don't have much use for the minifig or its parts.

I will say this about the spartan-- the poseability is something of an issue. The cape and the spear just don't play that well together. BUT either way it's easily one of the highlights of both series, no question.

[fred67]

I really don't think people at TLG thinks like that

Why not? I don't get why you wouldn't... I like LEGO as much as anybody, but they are a profit driven company, not a charity.

I don't hold it against them.

[Legoist]

Why not? I don't get why you wouldn't... I like LEGO as much as anybody, but they are a profit driven company, not a charity.

I don't hold it against them.

Because when I look at their rarity rates, they don't make a huge difference, and when I look at their choice of rares vs average vs common, it looks random to me:

Common (5 in a box): Ringmasters, Traffic Cops, Karate Masters

Average (4 in a box): Mexicans, Witches, Vampires, Lifeguards, Mime Artists, Weightlifters

Rares (3 in a box): Spartans, Jungle Explorers, Pop Stars, Skiers, DJs, Surfers, Pharaohs

In collectible games, the rares are usually "boss characters" i.e. most unique or (if there is a game based on these) powerful. I would say an example of unique (meaning that most people won't probably want/need 2 identical ones) is the Pharaoh but so is the Mime, while the Spartans or the Cops are the opposite, they are exactly the kind of minifig that you want a bunch (to make an army/squad of clones) or none at all.

I rather think they based rarity on the Coolness Factor, but this is a blind guess: what is cool for me is not cool for you.

Maybe they did make some calculations, but seeing the results I believe their strategy must be still in its infancy If they really want these series to turn into a collector's dream/nightmare, they should learn for example from Wizards of the Coast, makers of Magic The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures, which made a ton of money from them. Instead I have the feeling that these series sprung up more because some designers at TLG were themselves fans of collectable games and pushed the idea up to the management which were a bit skeptic and accepted only on the condition that these were going to be made in China (cheaper, minimizing risks). After all, these series probably end up being a small percentage of TLG revenues.

I just found these from the department store across the street, and managed to get all but the Pharaoh (since it had ran out from the single box in the LEGO shelf).

Vapaavalinta and Prisma now seem to have boxes of them in all their shops, and I seriously doubt that there are enough AFOLs in Finland to plunder the boxes for Pharaos (or whatever they prize most, which so far it's clear to me it's Spartans...). With the barcode in hand, you should have absolutely no problem getting your missing fig!

Great review, but sadly this series of minifigs continues the problems of Series 1: too few women. The gender imbalance is annoying and I find it lazy and irresponsible on Lego's part. Then there's the Mexican minifig, which is bordering on racism.

Well but if the mexican wasn't stereotypical, how could you tell it was a mexican?

The female rarity problem is real but only AFOLs care about it, and perhaps these minifig collections aren't the best place to look for gender equality.

On a totally unrelated level, if female rarity is a problem for you consider if this help: take one minifig with female face and hair, use the female face with a gender-neutral hat and the female hair with a gender-neutral face, and you've suddenly doubled your female population

Edited August 29, 2010 by Legoist

[Ogre]

Why not? I don't get why you wouldn't... I like LEGO as much as anybody, but they are a profit driven company, not a charity.

I don't hold it against them.

Exactly...so, why not make MORE of the one or two figures that will be the most 'in demand' and thusly, SELL more of those figures?

Of course, their decisions never cease to baffle me, such as what they did with that Stormtrooper Hoth Battle Pack. Terrible decision on figure inclusion, IMO.

[fred67]

Exactly...so, why not make MORE of the one or two figures that will be the most 'in demand' and thusly, SELL more of those figures?

Of course, their decisions never cease to baffle me, such as what they did with that Stormtrooper Hoth Battle Pack. Terrible decision on figure inclusion, IMO.

Are you guys serious? The whole point of blind packaging is to get you to buy more, not less... you buy more because the likelihood of getting a particular minifig that you want is less. They didn't intend for people to be able to know what was in the package, it's supposed to be a blind purchase, like buying gaming cards (like Pokemon or Yu-gi-oh), you end up with stuff you don't want... stuff you paid for, in order to get what you do want. You want five spartans? You'll have to take the baggage of 8 traffic cops, 5 pop singers, etc., etc.

The marketing strategy has been around for ages, and it works well. If TLG wanted you to be able to just go buy what you wanted, they wouldn't sell them blindly, and in that case they would make more of what's in demand. I suppose you could argue this is what they should do, and as a consumer I would agree... I would buy a complete set anyway, and then buy more.

Again, I don't hold it against them... I'm sad they went the blind packaging route, but it's a proven marketing strategy based on making a higher profit. LEGO is a company, they need to make money, the more the better. They aren't a bad company... they are better than most when it comes to working with the community, they sponsor a lot of stuff, work in education, and because it's a privately held company are not at the behest of stock holders (and can't use "stock holders" as an excuse for bad behavior, like so many public companies do)... I like TLG, I really do... but ultimately their goal is to make money, if they don't make money they can't do the benevolent things they do, either.

Believe me, as a parent, it's not a "fun" way to do things... If your son, using his saved up money to buy a whopping 5 minifigs and saying "I hope I get the ____, I hope I get the _____" over and over all the way home... and then dealing with the reaction when he doesn't get it because AFOLs and TFOLs raided the box of all the desirable figures with their barcodes is NOT FUN for the child or the parent.

I don't hold it against those of you who did this, I'd do the same thing if I could even find them for sale anywhere (just to get a complete set), I blame LEGO for this kind of marketing and hope your strategies to figure out what's in the packages for series 3 and beyond fail miserably. Maybe they should uses boxes instead. If they're going to blind market, it needs to be blind. If they can't figure out to really make it blind, then they should just sell them as what they are outright.

Ultimately these minifigure series are just completely awesome, and I'm glad TLG made them... but I still have not even seen one in a store... not series 1, not series 2. Finally I bought a set from BL, and I just went ahead and ordered a box from another company for series 2. Don't know what I'll do with series 3... I suppose the BL buyers might open the packages and still sell them as new (resealed in baggies or something).

What they should have done, if they really wanted you to buy ones you didn't want, was package them four to a box, but you know what you're buying.

Edited August 30, 2010 by fred67

[CarrollFilms]

This is awesome!!! Anybody know when the seconds series will be out?

[Ogre]

Are you guys serious? The whole point of blind packaging is to get you to buy more, not less...

Yanno...I totally forgot that they were 'blind'.

I'm so used to the whole 'barcode' thing now, I never even gave it a second thought, even though I didn't have the barcodes when I bought my first batch of series one.

Geez...I just laughed so hard, I think I pulled something...

*edit* And speaking of 'barcodes'...be unlike myself and pay proper attention when picking yours up (yanno, instead of say, talking to your wife), or you'll end up with another 'ringmaster' instead of 'disco stu'.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Ogre

[peterab]

TLG seems to underestimate the US audience a lot. They did it with non-city Advent Calendars and they did it with the minifigures. It seems to me they've already realized their mistake, but it was already too late for Series 2.

I see a pattern in what the US misses out on. In the past the US has missed out on advent calendars, certain impulse sets and have had low stock of the collectible minifigs. Now ask what do they have in common, and what is the unique thing about the US market? They all have detailed printed minifigs (in smaller total production numbers than say city police men), and the US is unique in that it has the lowest Lego prices.

In other posts you've admitted that you expect Lego to do the most profitable thing. I'd guess the minifigs have a pretty high production cost (lets call it X). Would you sell lots more figs in the US for a profit of Y-X, or stock the rest of the world where your profit is 2Y-X.

I don't think Lego underestimates the US at all, but it appears the US market is less profitable for sets made up mostly of rare figs. On the up side you have the cheapest Lego in the world. I've seen people unwilling to buy these figures at the Bricklink prices, implying the sellers are inflating the prices, but a lot of them, including shipping from Europe, compare pretty well with my local retail prices.

Their mistake was probably one of PR rather than under supply IMHO. Given an untested product would you rather end up with a unmet demand or a surplus you couldn't sell?

For these sort of collectibles, not being able to get the first series, and the upward pressure on their prices, probably helps drive the collect-ability/sales of the later series anyway.

[Rick]

I see a pattern in what the US misses out on.

Interesting thought. Didn't think of it that way.

[Joebot]

The marketing strategy has been around for ages, and it works well. If TLG wanted you to be able to just go buy what you wanted, they wouldn't sell them blindly, and in that case they would make more of what's in demand. I suppose you could argue this is what they should do, and as a consumer I would agree... I would buy a complete set anyway, and then buy more.

Good post, Fred67. You hit on a lot of points that have really frustrated me about these collectible figs, and I appreciated your well-articulated viewpoint.

In regards to the blind packaging, you're right that it has been around for a long time, and it DOES work well ... for the company. It's very anti-consumer, which is why I hate it so much. It's a transparent ploy to get you to spend money on stuff you don't want in the hopes that you get what you DO want. They try to spin it as being "fun to collect them all!" It's not fun though. It's not fun to watch your kids be disappointed.

I guess I'm just frustrated that Lego would go this route. They've always been a consumer-friendly company, with a good product, excellent customer service, and a positive family-friendly message. Blind packaging undermines all of that. I wouldn't exactly call it "sleazy," but ... well ... maybe it is kinda. It's bit a line a carnival game with a carny trying to get you to play. You KNOW the game is rigged and you're going to lose ... but hey, maybe you'll get lucky, so you give it a try.

The fact that you can't actually FIND the damn things here in the U.S. just acerbates the problem. If you could find these things everywhere at grocery stores, gas stations, and Walgreens, hanging next to the gum and candy at the checkout counter, then it's just an impulse buy. It's $2, big deal. Instead, it's a stressful hunt and a race to beat the scalpers. When you invest that much time and energy into it, you'd like to be able to buy what you actually WANT!

[Tervlon]

The fact that you can't actually FIND the damn things here in the U.S. just acerbates the problem. If you could find these things everywhere at grocery stores, gas stations, and Walgreens, hanging next to the gum and candy at the checkout counter, then it's just an impulse buy. It's $2, big deal. Instead, it's a stressful hunt and a race to beat the scalpers. When you invest that much time and energy into it, you'd like to be able to buy what you actually WANT!

THIS. This is my biggest pet peeve. Why do I have to go to the LEGO Store on the first day these are out to find them? That is craziness! If I don't go the first day I won't EVER see them again. I'm fortunate to have a set plus a few extras, but I'd love to add a couple to every LEGO purchase over the next few months. The stress and strain to get these is a major pain and is very discouraging. The experience to find these figs is miserable. I was dreading the second round. Hopefully the 3rd round is widely distributed to every imaginable locale.

[Legoist]

The marketing strategy has been around for ages, and it works well.

Well, what I'm trying to say is that IMHO they have so far an undecided (or careful) strategy. Many posters are saying that these series are hard to find, and get sold out quickly. To me this suggests that TLG management just wasn't sure it was a good idea and took a "safe tactic": limited production to see how the first series go, and made in China to keep the costs minimal. They picked their budget for a bunch of designers and a number of pieces to produce so that series 1 would make a profit if at least XX% of the bags were sold, now they've seen they sold 100% and they will increase production for series 2.

Also I am not angry at all with TLG for this! Believe me, with so much Lego out there to possibly buy, there is no single Lego set or minifig I cannot live without.

I'm a parent too however, and while my kids are still too young for these, I am already thinking whether I should keep them away from collections in general, or if I should let them try and learn from their mistakes. I do have a very negative opinion on "collectable toys" and collecting hobbies based on close collections, I believe they are as unhealthy as gambling.

So for me the matter was very simple: since they're sold at random, I didn't even consider buying them, no matter how nice they look. Once I found out about the barcodes, I bought 5 that I though were cool, maybe I'll buy 2-3 more, and that's it (since we already know the barcodes are over in series 3). I understand your concerns for people who buy 500 of the same minifig, which combined with the scarcity of the whole series makes it almost impossible for regular children to complete their collection, but normal people would use the barcodes to help their kids complete the collection for a smaller price. I don't see how this "cheating" can possibly be less moral than the industrial strategy you explained well yourself of tricking children into buying 30 minifigs to get 16.