Hello everyone,

Last week the first Kingdoms-Sets finally hit the shelves in the region where I live. I bought "Knight´s showdown" and "Prison Carriage Rescue". But when I thought about the best way to build up a Dragon Army (Without buying battle packs due to quality issues), I came to the conclusion, that 1) There are ,compared to the first Castle-wave, less sets and 2) that there is no set with more Dragon knights, there is either the same amount of both factions or the Dragons are outnumbered by the Lions.

First Castle-Wave had (Not counting battle packs or advent calender) 9 Sets with a total amount of 38 figs, which is 4,2 Figs per set.

In total it was a 20- 18 for the Crownies.

First Kingdoms- Wave has only 7 Sets with a total amount of 23 figs, which is 3,2 figs per set.

In total it´s 14 - 9 for the Lions. Arguing, that Chester and Maid are no fighters, it´s still 12-9 (or 12-8, depending if the wizard will stand on the battle field or not).

So what do you think? Is the first wave too imbalanced , are there too less sets compared to other Medieval-sets in the past or is this my opinion exklusive?

I would say that it is very imbalanced. There just aren't enough Dragon troops, and their only 'castle' is a prison tower with some pretty bad security flaws.

I really hope the line lasts longer- I would love to see a more Dragon-oriented wave.

I really hope the line lasts longer- I would love to see a more Dragon-oriented wave.

The last Castle line also lasted longer than one wave and has brought a big knight's castle and a big troll's castle, so there's hope for a big(ger) Dragon knights castle in the next wave.

In the last Castle theme and KK2, the first wave heavily favored the good guys, but both ended with an evil fortress. Let's just hope Kingdoms doesn't go any farther into the magic and wizardry side of things.

I don't really wanna judge anything as there just is one wave out until now, and we have no glimpse of an idea what the next wave will bring. So i'm gonna pass on juding, and will wait until the next wave comes out.

If you get just one copy of the sets, yes, the Dragons come up worse for wear. However, it is very easy to buy several of the Wizard at which point the poor little Lions just can't put up a fight. If you're somewhere that can get the battle packs, get a few dragon battle packs and the numbers are a lot more even (or in my case since I haven't bought the main sets yet, completely unfair) for the Dragons. I'm honnestly not feeling like there are less sets this wave because they mostly cut out random siege engines, or at least that's what it feels like to me. I'm fully expecting next wave to get a nice fort for the dragons along with a proper leader.

Personally, I think the bigger issue with Kingdoms is the lack of silver great helms - they're such a nice new part, and only in two sets? I personally feel we can pass up some fixed-grille helmets and the wide-brimmed ones for more gorgeous great helms.

Maybe the Dragon knights are a smaller fighting force and don't really have a castle yet...just their prison tower which could have been the Lion knights at one stage and they took it from them.

I guess 2011 might even up the score....I wonder if 'Klaus' when he caught a peep at next years catalogue saw what Kingdom's was up and comming ?

I'm a conformist! !

Nice topic - the disparity doesn't really bother me. the dragon kingdom is the obvious aggressor. in every set they're the ones who "aren't playing nice" . normally involving kidnapping people - and when you've got a kidnapped person to rescue, you better have sufficient people to pull that off . so that makes an automatic lean toward lions. it's all about the target audience kids, design so that any one of the sets alone is worth picking up.

the reason they could pull off villain only sets in Caste (fantasy) is because they're grotesque, over the top, and entirely different from the heroes. kingdoms is two warring factions but they seem to be culturally similar. A kid won't necessarily see a dragon set and think "look at that awesome architecture, look at that awesome color scheme" - though the prison tower stood out most for me and I bought it in a heartbeat

That said, yeah I'd expect another wave might balance it out a bit. I'd welcome it.

Edited September 5, 201014 yr by SpiderSpaceman

If you get just one copy of the sets, yes, the Dragons come up worse for wear. However, it is very easy to buy several of the Wizard at which point the poor little Lions just can't put up a fight. If you're somewhere that can get the battle packs, get a few dragon battle packs and the numbers are a lot more even (or in my case since I haven't bought the main sets yet, completely unfair) for the Dragons. I'm honnestly not feeling like there are less sets this wave because they mostly cut out random siege engines, or at least that's what it feels like to me. I'm fully expecting next wave to get a nice fort for the dragons along with a proper leader.

I think he's talking about if you bought just one set.

Yes, there's a disparity, evident even in the Advent calendar. But there are equal numbers or more of the Dragon Knights in the 2 smaller sets which does make it easier to bump up their numbers. I do find it a bit silly that the Prison Tower Rescue has only 2 Dragons but 3 Lions (including the princess) - it should be the other way round.

What really bugs me are two things:

1) There is only 1 type of printed shield per faction - in the Fantasy line, the Crownies and Skeles both had 2 types of shields (this is even before the Troll wave was released.)

2) The nice printed Dragon Knight armour is only in one proper set - the most expensive one! - which makes it very hard to build up these bad-megablocks.

Apart from that, you could spin-off a 'third faction' of Pink Knights that suffer the crappy white-on-red to keep things interesting

I would say that it is very imbalanced. There just aren't enough Dragon troops, and their only 'castle' is a prison tower with some pretty bad security flaws.

I think the tower is supposed to be a hidden(ish) camouflaged building, probably built into the side of a gully in a forest - as opposed to being in the middle of a grassy field. I wouldn't expect it to be held under siege like a castle - it's more a hideout, borrowing from the Forestmen theme a bit.

In the last Castle theme and KK2, the first wave heavily favored the good guys, but both ended with an evil fortress. Let's just hope Kingdoms doesn't go any farther into the magic and wizardry side of things.

I was actually disappointed that there was a wizard. This is the first time since 1989 we've not had witches, dragons, skeletons or ghosts. I'm gonna pretend this "wizard" is basically just a chemist of sorts.

I don't really wanna judge anything as there just is one wave out until now, and we have no glimpse of an idea what the next wave will bring. So i'm gonna pass on juding, and will wait until the next wave comes out.

That said, yeah I'd expect another wave might balance it out a bit. I'd welcome it.

This is why I only bought 1 of each - I'm anticipating a green, brown & dark grey castle next year. (PLEASE!)

Apart from that, you could spin-off a 'third faction' of Pink Knights that suffer the crappy white-on-red to keep things interesting

Haha

I agree it's imbalanced, but I'm expecting more sets to come out in future. Once they're all out & I've got 'em all, I'll do whatever balancing act I deem necessary. I think the worst thing about the current Dragon Knights wave is that there are 0 mounted knights. ZERO. Not one.

But, the way I see it, is that most unbalanced themes often even the sides out in the second wave, often with an opposing fortress. Hold out for a bit, or get the battle packs if your not mad about quality.

Well, it's been a while since these came out, but I find that if you wanted to build a force of dragon knights, there's not much stopping you. I don't like the quality of the BP's there's tons of ways to get a force of those guys.

I think the footsoldier with the bullet helm sells on bricklink for like $3 a piece, so you spend thirty bucks and get a small force of lego quality plastic, without having to buy any Lion knights.

Personally I think the imbalance is there to get you to buy multiples of sets to get a small force, that and most kids aspire to be good guys, so the bad guys have to be present but not in full force

most kids aspire to be good guys, so the bad guys have to be present but not in full force

My problem tends to be the reverse - I can never get enough of the bad guys. Then I realise that the good guys are hugely outnumbered.

"Suppose I'd better get some more good guys then... but the bad guys are so much cooler..."

Thanks for all of your answers so far :)

So what do you think is the best way to build up a Dragonforce? Buying multiples of "Knight´s showdown" and the Prison Rescue? (Until you don´t want to buy BPs)

I think it would be some nice idea if the next impulse-set would be a Dragon Knight similar to the Crownie Soldier impulse with armor and maybe the new helmet. That would help balance things out a bit.

I´m not so sure about a Dragon´s castle since they already got their Tower. Maybe there will be a third faction with a Castle in the third wave.

Thanks for all of your answers so far :)

So what do you think is the best way to build up a Dragonforce? Buying multiples of "Knight´s showdown" and the Prison Rescue? (Until you don´t want to buy BPs)

I think it would be some nice idea if the next impulse-set would be a Dragon Knight similar to the Crownie Soldier impulse with armor and maybe the new helmet. That would help balance things out a bit.

I´m not so sure about a Dragon´s castle since they already got their Tower. Maybe there will be a third faction with a Castle in the third wave.

You could try to build a big castle yourself from two copies of 7947 Prison Tower Rescue. Check out these threads for ideas: thread 1, thread 2. The lion side of the set contains two exclusive minifigures, they fetch a good price if you don't want to keep them, so overall, you can get a decent dragon castle for much cheaper than the big lion castle. You can use the extra equipment (dragon shields, pearl dark gray weapons) to equip the dragon soldiers from the two small sets.

Let's just hope Kingdoms doesn't go any farther into the magic and wizardry side of things.

While I respect your right to your opinion I hope they expand the magic/fantasy side a lot more. The theme needs more of a magical side to it as well as a better balance between the two "sides" presented so far.

Personally, I think the bigger issue with Kingdoms is the lack of silver great helms - they're such a nice new part, and only in two sets? I personally feel we can pass up some fixed-grille helmets and the wide-brimmed ones for more gorgeous great helms.

Fortunately one of those two sets is incredibly cheap and includes three figs and a horse. Conversely, the only way to score a dark metallic breastplate is to either fork out for battlepacks (quality issues) or the large castle (price). Considering how hideous the dragon knights look without the breastplate this is a real travesty. Moreover, you can't even get a visored helm or fixed-grill helmet in dark metallic silver yet.

I really hope we see some more variety with this line in the future. Still, if you look back at the first year of the Fantasy line, there's clearly a lot of room for growth here.

I'm anticipating a second wave later this year. They did the same with the previous castle set; first wave is with crown knights and second wave was trolls, orcs and dwarves.

I'm anticipating a second wave later this year. They did the same with the previous castle set; first wave is with crown knights and second wave was trolls, orcs and dwarves.

Ditto, I can't wait to see what 2011 will bring for the kingdoms line; amongst hundreds of speculations and hopes fueled by wishful thinking, it's clear people want to see some kind of riffraff faction of robbers, forest-men, or the like. Perhaps Lego will deliver, and then the balance issue won't be as major; you'' be able to supplement either side of the current factions with mercs.

I wouldn't mind seeing another Kingdom appear, although I hope more changes than just the color scheme. I hope they introduce a Spanish faction (Like knights from Castille, so that the buildings can look a bit different and not just Anglo-Saxon, Norman. I also would love to see more civilian sets; just think if you could get a modular house set whch came with peasants and farm animals. I'd get 10 and build a village; all of these are possibilities for breaking up the consistent power struggle issue, and refreshing the line

Next summer the Dragon people will probably get a $100+ castle set and will even out the forces. You can't give kids everything they want in one year, they don't have the money to buy two castles.

I'm also hoping that we get more balance next year but I'm not going to hold my breath the good guys seems to always out number the bad guy in the Lego work for some reason. Maybe the Stormtrooper Marksmanship course isn't avalaible in the Lego world?

I'm not that struck on the red knights so unless we get some more dragon sets I'm going to be a tad disappointed.

Getting into Lego again (yet again lol). Decided to not miss out on these awesome Kingdom sets, and there is a definite disparity between the forces.

One could argue that the Wizard (presumably powerful magic) and siege weapons provide some offensive power to tip the balance over to the Dragon Knights. But overall, the Dragon Knights are fairly lacking. Hopefully the next wave will have Dragon Knight cavalry, their own castle, and of course more soldiers. And some sort of General.

I was thinking of building an army, but cost is obviously an issue. There is the buying battlepacks and/or buying individual minifigs from bricklink/etc. But for the same money I could buy a bunch of sets which will have a bit less minifigs but I would end up with a lot more bricks. But it looks like the Dragon Knights Battle Pack is very popular, no doubt due to the Dragon Knight that is otherwise only available in King's Castle.

But if Kingdoms is like Castle, by the time it is done with its waves, there will probably be around 30 of each Lion and Dragon Knight. Hardly an army, but perhaps satisfying enough. So far I am getting one of each set, including the battle packs and the Advent Calender. Already ordered some from Lego S@H since they still have that free shipping offer on.

My problem tends to be the reverse - I can never get enough of the bad guys. Then I realise that the good guys are hugely outnumbered.

"Suppose I'd better get some more good guys then... but the bad guys are so much cooler..."

Seems good guys are not good (skills) as the bad guys.