Hero Factory 2010

[Omicron]

I'll be happy if they just use a better piece/price ratio. When they put the stuff in a canister and charge 8 USD for them they give the wrong idea that the set is similar to the canister instead of being large plastic pieces aimed at an age range that's bellow the one specified on the canister. I am happy as well that I get the chance not to buy sets, all those av-matoran, agori and heroes that I won't buy mean lots of money to be spent on other things.

You know. If you don't want to buy the set/pieces from Lego because they are expensive, then try buying from Bricklink or from anyone else. They are worse.

-Omi

[vexorian]

You know. If you don't want to buy the set/pieces from Lego because they are expensive, then try buying from Bricklink or from anyone else. They are worse.

-Omi

Actually, I will just take the "not buying them" approach since it is much easier and the pieces are not worth it. I am not really all that interested show how my MoCer skills are so awesome that they can even survive the use of av-matoran pieces. There are much better deals out there. Plenty of voyaran and mahri matoran for sale all over my city. The day they run out of them, there are still all sorts of canisters like the metru, vahki, barraki, mahri, phantoka, mistika and glatorian available in toy stores for me and those molds are on average half the cost of the av-matoran molds, so...

Edited January 26, 2010 by vexorian

[The Alchemyst]

I'll be happy if they just use a better piece/price ratio. When they put the stuff in a canister and charge 8 USD for them they give the wrong idea that the set is similar product to the canister ones instead of being large plastic pieces aimed at an age range that's bellow the one specified on the canister. I sure am happy as well that I get the chance not to buy sets. All those av-matoran, agori and heroes that I won't buy mean lots of money to be spent on other things. Kinda terrifying they insisted on putting agori on the large sets of 2009 though.

Didn't you see BFA's post? It's not the piece per price ratio, more than the cost per price. It costs more to make new molds. There's also costs in making bigger pieces, and not so geometric detailed one as well.

If you want more pieces, it'd turn to stuff like Mahritoran. Less new molds, and more smaller pieces.

Which kind of defeats the purpose of selling the sets to the target audience.

[Omicron]

Actually, I will just take the "not buying them" approach since it is much easier and the pieces are not worth it. I am not really all that interested show how my MoCer skills are so awesome that they can even survive the use of av-matoran pieces. There are much better deals out there. Plenty of voyaran and mahri matoran for sale all over my city. The day they run out of them, there are still all sorts of canisters like the metru, vahki, barraki, mahri, phantoka, mistika and glatorian available in toy stores for me and those molds are on average half the cost of the av-matoran molds, so...

Ok then. Don't buy them. End of discussion.

-Omi

[---Vertea---]

I definitely like the way Natalie Breez looks. Her and Bulk will be my definite buys. Blaze will come from the bike kit- which I will most definitely purchase. I do like the others, but my budget is REALLY low and will be for some time...

[vexorian]

I definitely like the way Natalie Breez looks. Her and Bulk will be my definite buys. Blaze will come from the bike kit- which I will most definitely purchase. I do like the others, but my budget is REALLY low and will be for some time...

I wonder if the bike Furno is going to be the same furno as the "impulse" version. They are supposed to change the parts according to the mission, after all.

[Darkness Falls]

I wonder if the bike Furno is going to be the same furno as the "impulse" version. They are supposed to change the parts according to the mission, after all.

Well, considering the version of Furno that is riding the bike in the concept art seems very similar to the original, I'd say yes. Hey, they'll both be on shelves at the same time, you can see for yourself.

[jeswal]

Sure they are not useless. They are just not as excessively useful as their high price tag implies. They are merely 'sort of' useful.

Seems LEGO learned of their mistake the hard way hence the heroes' limbs are not excessively ugly anymore.

I insist, the times in which LEGO sets will start to come pre-built are coming soon.

I'll be happy if they just use a better piece/price ratio. When they put the stuff in a canister and charge 8 USD for them they give the wrong idea that the set is similar product to the canister ones instead of being large plastic pieces aimed at an age range that's bellow the one specified on the canister. I sure am happy as well that I get the chance not to buy sets. All those av-matoran, agori and heroes that I won't buy mean lots of money to be spent on other things. Kinda terrifying they insisted on putting agori on the large sets of 2009 though.

What would you rather have for 8 dollars?

This: http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Protoss-...ctory/blaze.jpg

Or this tiny little thing: http://media.photobucket.com/image/Ejector...jector/ej19.jpg

It's not about price-to-part ratio but rather price-to-plastic ratio. In this case, the HF Heroes are definitely worth 8 dollars. That's a lot of plastic compared to the 8 dollar Ejector pictured above.

Edited January 26, 2010 by jeswal

[vexorian]

What would you rather have for 8 dollars?

This: http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Protoss-...ctory/blaze.jpg

Or this tiny little thing: [url="http://media.photobucket.com/image/Ejector%20Transformers/ejector/ej19.jpg[/url]

It's not about price-to-part ratio but rather price-to-plastic ratio. In this case, the HF Heroes are definitely worth 8 dollars. That's a lot of plastic compared to the 8 dollar Ejector pictured above.

Your second image is giving me account disabled.

Edit: Ok, not anymore. I would need a pic for size comparison. But should transformers' eternally overpriced costs drag everybody with them?

Edited January 26, 2010 by vexorian

[Aanchir]

Your second image is giving me account disabled.

Edit: Ok, not anymore. I would need a pic for size comparison. But should transformers' eternally overpriced costs drag everybody with them?

Perhaps it's been LEGO whose toys have been underpriced for so long. LEGO has reasons for the prices, and they wouldn't charge them if they were outside the reach or interest of the target audience. Plastic is expensive, steel is expensive, oil is expensive, etc. All of those are essential to making and distributing LEGO sets, and as long as the prices continue to rise, LEGO will have to adapt.

Meanwhile, LEGO has more purposes than just genius MOCing. Some people like to make sets, leave them together, and role-play with them. That applies to System themes as much as it does to any LEGO theme. Other fans might prefer to mix and match parts to make custom characters-- after all, I wasn't digging in my collection for the most innovative techniques or most versatile parts back in the Throwbot/Slizer era. I was putting blue parts together with red parts to create some random, basic-build character with a rocket pack.

Overall, LEGO typically knows what they're doing, even if the cost doesn't go toward the set's appeal in all markets.

[vexorian]

Perhaps it's been LEGO whose toys have been underpriced for so long. LEGO has reasons for the prices, and they wouldn't charge them if they were outside the reach or interest of the target audience. Plastic is expensive, steel is expensive, oil is expensive, etc. All of those are essential to making and distributing LEGO sets, and as long as the prices continue to rise, LEGO will have to adapt.

I think it is just like that in the US since LEGO gives the same numeric value to all their target countries, son in the US thanks to the weak dollar it is less expensive . LEGO "adapting" will only push people down to megabloks, and nobody wants that...

To be honest, it is going to be hard to justify to me that matoran now cost almost as much as the canisters. Specially considering that it is basically the same plastic from the same company, and on average canister parts are larger than the matoran ones. So, it is probably best to stop trying to continue the argument, I'll remain skeptical so it is not goign to ever end.

Overall, LEGO typically knows what they're doing.

I was almost sure about that until I saw that they are once again making clones...

Edited January 26, 2010 by vexorian

[Trionx]

I have to say that I NEVER looked at an Avtoran and bought it on it's MOC value. I bought them because I liked the role-play value with them. (Or used to. ) And if I get any of these Heroes it'll be for the same reason. Not every LEGO set is aimed for the MOCers.

[jeswal]

Your second image is giving me account disabled.

Edit: Ok, not anymore. I would need a pic for size comparison. But should transformers' eternally overpriced costs drag everybody with them?

Size-wise, ejector is about 3/4 the size of an Agori or Av-toran and nowhere near as bulky (Which is saying something, as Agori are very thin.) And it's not just Transformers. Look at Star Wars. I remember back in the 90's when I could get a Star Wars figure for 5 dollars. Now they cost 8, same as an Agori or a Transformers scout. Sure, molds have become more complex and detailed and articulation has risen. But the size and number of accessories has generally stayed the same. In fact, many Clone Wars figures are smaller than most older figures and have returned to the 90's, articulation wise. And Hasbro reuses molds plenty. How many times have you seen the ROTS clone trooper mold in the last 4 years? Or that Bespin Luke Skywalker? In comparison with these brands, Lego really gives you the most bang for your buck, regardless of variety between sets.

Edited January 26, 2010 by jeswal

[Bfahome]

Welcome to a place in which reducing someone else's argument to the absurd does not always work that easily. The av-matoran switch happened during the first half of 2008, a year in which claims of recession would have been met with skepticism. Also, 2008/2009 years' canister sets have a much more reasonable per piece cost in comparison. So, the recession is not going to work that well to explain it either.

Claims of rising oil prices would be met with a resounding "HELL YES", with gas in the U.S. up around $4 per gallon from under a dollar just a few years earlier.

I don't think just the slight change in size can explain the large shift in cost.

slight

->

Also notice the massive amounts of new molds in the '08 Matoran alone.

[Front]

1:

I have seen people compare two 7.99 sets, the first from 2001 the second from 2009, and then saying the 2001 had more value.

Yes it has more value, 7.99 in 2001 compares to maybe 10.99 in 2009. Economics.

2:

People compare a 30 part set with a 15 part set, saying how expensive the 15 part set has become. Now how much do you think it cost to produce 15 one-module cross axles or technic bushings ? Comparisons based on piece count has little value.

[cheesey skrall]

Well, considering the version of Furno that is riding the bike in the concept art seems very similar to the original, I'd say yes. Hey, they'll both be on shelves at the same time, you can see for yourself.

i think it will be slightly different. if you look at the small image of the blaze bike (HERE), you will notice that in the newer, clearer pics of blaze, he has yellow arms, but when you look at the pic of the blaze bike, his lims are metru red (i think) and it looks like he has bohrk feet. Also on the blaze bike, there is a thornax launcher that has an orange ball in it :P

(dropship has midak skyblaster!!!!! )

[Phantoka_Chirox]

The CGI's looks better compared to the real sets (well duh?) because maybe it's the shine on the CGI. But I ain't complainin they look effin' awesome!

[Aanchir]

I was almost sure about that until I saw that they are once again making clones...

...which they have done pretty much every time they've come out with a new torso design (even moreso when almost all the pieces of the new sets are new parts). The Inika, for example, were clones-- that doesn't mean that the Inika torso was useless for non-cloned sets, and in fact LEGO used it for several non-cloned sets over the next three years.

Only the y-joints, hands, and heads of the new main-series sets are parts previously used in BIONICLE. The other 20 part molds seen (21 if the chest emblem is in fact a separate piece, which I can't say for certain) are brand new. Thus, it seems like LEGO is trying to avoid recycling BIONICLE parts in these sets (which, as I have noted, contributes to the different feel these designs tend to have). The only way LEGO could have made these sets non-cloned is by using older BIONICLE parts. I would not be at all surprised if Hero Factory's second year introduces new HF parts, thus allowing for more variety and allowing for the introduction of non-cloned main-series sets.

[vexorian]

...which they have done pretty much every time they've come out with a new torso design (even moreso when almost all the pieces of the new sets are new parts). The Inika, for example, were clones-- that doesn't mean that the Inika torso was useless for non-cloned sets, and in fact LEGO used it for several non-cloned sets over the next three years.

Only the y-joints, hands, and heads of the new main-series sets are parts previously used in BIONICLE. The other 20 part molds seen (21 if the chest emblem is in fact a separate piece, which I can't say for certain) are brand new. Thus, it seems like LEGO is trying to avoid recycling BIONICLE parts in these sets (which, as I have noted, contributes to the different feel these designs tend to have). The only way LEGO could have made these sets non-cloned is by using older BIONICLE parts. I would not be at all surprised if Hero Factory's second year introduces new HF parts, thus allowing for more variety and allowing for the introduction of non-cloned main-series sets.

I hope so.

It doesn't stop these sets from being all clones though. I don't really think they look that different from bionicle.

[vexorian]

Claims of rising oil prices would be met with a resounding "HELL YES", with gas in the U.S. up around $4 per gallon from under a dollar just a few years earlier.

->

Also notice the massive amounts of new molds in the '08 Matoran alone.

Yes, except the new molds are the very pieces I dislike.

Anyway nice pics, let me finish with a lot more pics for better comparisons.

Fero vs. Garan, Fero is really the only av-matoran I have, but let's pretend it is Atakus, so I replaced his joints with glatorian fists and since Fero has only one blade instead of Atakus' dual blades, I have removed one of Garan's weapons (This is convenient because the other one is in use by some other thing).

The parts:

I love those gray half technic brick half articulation ball parts. Hence the reason I am always biased towards voyaran since they brought four of those.

The torsos:

I think it is a much fairer comparison to place the complete Garan torso with the single av-matoran one since both have the same function.

I needed a pic to rebuild Garan since I forgot how he looked like, I didn't need anything to build Fero, so it is easier. Go figure whether that is a good thing or not. Garan only has two technic axles BTW, I don't think that's enough to make the price drop that much.

The guys complete:

Fero does not look 2.66 larger than Garan to me. He is not even 1.5 as large. So I personally don't think price increased linearly with size in this case If bigger molds increase the price non-linearly, the solution was to make the av-matoran torso in two parts. No axles would have been needed for that and both parts would have been more versatile. Plus the reduction in cost...

They seem tied in their role playing capacity. Except the voyaran were the brave little guys that noticed that Piraka weren't toa, while Fero is just a random agori they put on Skirmix to justify selling a dinosaur in the bara magna line.

This has gotten off-topic and to save the mods from annoyances I will avoid continuing this discussion in this thread, afterall the heroes seem to be a victory over av-matoran, maybe the whole emblen thing has forced them to use more than a single piece for the body and their limbs are not nearly as ugly. The price count/price ratio is much better as well (though all we have seen yet are cgi 3d videos, so maybe they are much worse in real life). Let's stop arguing and ... unite?

Edited January 26, 2010 by vexorian

[Artahn]

I bought them because I liked the role-play value with them.

I'm sorry for disrupting the current conversation, but that sentence makes me want a HF RPG video game sooooooooooooooooooo bad!!!!

[Darkness Falls]

This has gotten off-topic and to save the mods from annoyances I will avoid continuing this discussion in this thread, afterall the heroes seem to be a victory over av-matoran, maybe the whole emblen thing has forced them to use more than a single piece for the body and their limbs are not nearly as ugly. The price count/price ratio is much better as well (though all we have seen yet are cgi 3d videos, so maybe they are much worse in real life). Let's stop arguing and ... unite?

All I'm getting is that you liked the Voyatoran. What about the Matoran of Mahri Nui? That was certainly an interesting design that sot of blended the elements that were presented the year before and after it- Something I feel would have been better implemented.

[Front]

.....

This has gotten off-topic and to save the mods from annoyances I will avoid continuing this discussion in this thread, afterall the heroes seem to be a victory over av-matoran, maybe the whole emblen thing has forced them to use more than a single piece for the body and their limbs are not nearly as ugly. The price count/price ratio is much better as well (though all we have seen yet are cgi 3d videos, so maybe they are much worse in real life). Let's stop arguing and ... unite?

....

No problem I think, discussions like this are informative. Notice how the two sets you present both have 9 ball-cup joints.

Matoran 5-ball torsos, well they are not the most useful I guess, but I have had zero problems adding one as a pelvis on a huge titan moc, giving that titan a "bend-able" body (between torso and pelvis), Not sure any official set ever had a body that could bend forward, rotate etc.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Front

[Brickthing]

No problem I think, discussions like this are informative. Notice how the two sets you present both have 9 ball-cup joints.

Matoran 5-ball torsos, well they are not the most useful I guess, but I have had zero problems adding one as a pelvis on a huge titan moc, giving that titan a "bend-able" body (between torso and pelvis), Not sure any official set ever had a body that could bend forward, rotate etc.

Yup, this discussion is fine, although the raising price part has been discussed to death many times before.

Well there was Pridak, but not all of us like to talk about that feature.

[Front]

Well there was Pridak, but not all of us like to talk about that feature.

My Pridak and Ehlek can't stand up. That was a huge blow to my view of the products as pure quality.