Hero Factory 2010

[The Dor]

What about his limbs? Those are in a new colour, right?

An apparently new shade of silver (not really that different, somewhere between the Mistika and Bohrok-Kal silvers).

[Bundalings]

What about his limbs? Those are in a new colour, right?

Surge's limbs are silver. It looks like it might be a slightly different shade than usual, but someone who owns Hero Factory sets would know better, I'm just going by pictures. But Surge's limbs are definitely silver.

[The Crazy One]

Yes, my Bulk, Stormer and Furno just arrived!

I will try and piece together a review, but don't expect one soon. I'm very lazy at the moment.

[Zarkan]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm confused as to why everyone is so excited about the Hero Factory storyline. Sure, there's been bits of the character profiles that I've appreciated, but for the most part this is really a huge step down from even the earliest years of Bionicle. For one, there's absolutely no mystery - everything we could possibly know about the theme has already been revealed to us, including Von Nebula's motive. Also, the amount of media that conveys the storyline is severely decreased - so far, all we've gotten is a four page comic, a couple interviews with the characters, and generic character descriptions. Whereas Bionicle 2001 had the year long MNOLG and three sixteen page comics, not to mention multiple magazine articles and a book that came out in 2003.

Yeah, so, not seeing why even the most diehard fans of the early years of Bionicle like this theme so much, at lest from a storyline perspective. I know some of you wanted a simpler story, but this is really only one step above the generic "storylines" of most regular lego themes. Am I missing something, or are you guys just trying too hard to love this theme?

[The Crazy One]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm confused as to why everyone is so excited about the Hero Factory storyline. Sure, there's been bits of the character profiles that I've appreciated, but for the most part this is really a huge step down from even the earliest years of Bionicle. For one, there's absolutely no mystery - everything we could possibly know about the theme has already been revealed to us, including Von Nebula's motive. Also, the amount of media that conveys the storyline is severely decreased - so far, all we've gotten is a four page comic, a couple interviews with the characters, and generic character descriptions. Whereas Bionicle 2001 had the year long MNOLG and three sixteen page comics, not to mention multiple magazine articles and a book that came out in 2003.

Yeah, so, not seeing why even the most diehard fans of the early years of Bionicle like this theme so much, at lest from a storyline perspective. I know some of you wanted a simpler story, but this is really only one step above the generic "storylines" of most regular lego themes. Am I missing something, or are you guys just trying too hard to love this theme?

Who said there still can't be a mystery? Stories are easily twisted, easily manipulated and deepened. I except this story does already seem a lot simpler, but do not write it off just yet.

[Aanchir]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm confused as to why everyone is so excited about the Hero Factory storyline. Sure, there's been bits of the character profiles that I've appreciated, but for the most part this is really a huge step down from even the earliest years of Bionicle. For one, there's absolutely no mystery - everything we could possibly know about the theme has already been revealed to us, including Von Nebula's motive. Also, the amount of media that conveys the storyline is severely decreased - so far, all we've gotten is a four page comic, a couple interviews with the characters, and generic character descriptions. Whereas Bionicle 2001 had the year long MNOLG and three sixteen page comics, not to mention multiple magazine articles and a book that came out in 2003.

Yeah, so, not seeing why even the most diehard fans of the early years of Bionicle like this theme so much, at lest from a storyline perspective. I know some of you wanted a simpler story, but this is really only one step above the generic "storylines" of most regular lego themes. Am I missing something, or are you guys just trying too hard to love this theme?

I like the story in part for its versatility. Unlike BIONICLE, which had a very serious, epic storyline from the get-go, this opens with some serious elements and some more "jokey" elements like the radio podcast. Plus, there's Zib. ZIIIIIIB. *fangirl scream*

Er... anyway, another reason some people probably like this is because it feels a lot more LEGO-ish than BIONICLE did in terms of story. Building is a central motif, there's a panoply of character options (rather than BIONICLE where characters in 2001 could almost all be categorized by species and tribe), and there's a lot of room for imagination. The story feels to me like the story of the Clutch Powers movie, but with action figures in place of minifigs. And I see no problem with that.

[dviddy]

Yeah, so, not seeing why even the most diehard fans of the early years of Bionicle like this theme so much, at lest from a storyline perspective. I know some of you wanted a simpler story, but this is really only one step above the generic "storylines" of most regular lego themes. Am I missing something, or are you guys just trying too hard to love this theme?

To put it frankly, the Bionicle storyline the last few years just got worse, and worse, and worse, and worse. It was not a good story, it had very few compelling characters, and was very poorly written. A lot of us like the idea of this new theme because so far, it's not bloated with unnecessary and ridiculous details thrown in for little more than cheap attempts at fan-service, and it finally helps stop the bleeding out Bionicle has suffered through for years with a new emphasis and new theme. Plus, so far, it looks like Greg hasn't touched Hero Factory, and that's the best news out of all of it.

[vexorian]

I wish LEGO would stop it with the canisters. I initially thought they were great for storage, but the piece amount in sets even as old as roboriders were never that large. So I eventually ended having too many canisters and too little pieces to use them. I eventually even used them for system bricks and still, too many canisters hanging around.

It got worse when I figured out that there are much better storage options... Tupperware are arguably more useful because you don't need to spill their contents to look for pieces, they are also a lot more space efficient in regards to the volume they take... Plus much cheaper. I think that measuring the amount of plastic, heroes could have been at least a dollar cheaper without the canister...

Canisters have now become a storage issue rather than a solution, I really have no idea where to put all my canisters, I might actually get rid of them. But then they become an environmental issue, that's a great con of canisters, they are plastic, not paper can't be recycled, yay...

--

Regarding the story. Well, it is not like Bionicle's story was that great, I mean they managed to put a Deus Ex Machina (And suddenly a Red star turns matoran into inika!) into it and it didn't look odd to the fans of the story...

[Aanchir]

Hey, I liked the later-years BIONICLE story under Greg's direction, and I think your lambasting of it is a bit unfair. I found a lot of the characters compelling, and to be honest I found it a very inspiring theme. But what Hero Factory has that BIONICLE lacked was accessibility. It's a lot simpler to explain what Hero Factory is about than what BIONICLE was about. Will that last if the theme continues for further years? Only time will tell, but for now, it's a fresh beginning, much more so than BIONICLE's attempts in 2006 and 2009 to create "jump-on points" for the series.

Also, bear in mind that canisters are just another form of packaging, and flashy packaging sells sets (especially packaging with a storage function). The only purpose LEGO designs the canisters for is to hold the sets they come with, and what fans do with them after-the-fact isn't their problem. I myself keep all of my canister sets in their canisters on a shelf in my room (all, that is, except the 2009 sets, for which that shelf finally ran out of room). If canisters ever start to be a problem, I'll find something to do with them, or I can just stop buying canister sets. But in the meantime, they stack easily, and so I arguably have an easier time storing them than I would have displaying the sets on a shelf outside their canisters.

[vexorian]

Yes, that's the issue I have here, basically 20% of the plastic used on the hero sets goes to a flashy package.

I've been there (storing the set) but it gets dull. I am more the guy to put things on display. Also, many of the Glatorian just didn't fit in their canister without destruction. It was clever with slizers that had even a storage transformation. But the usefulness of canisters has since faded...

I could throw them and I guess many people do. But one of the reasons I liked LEGO was how it was rather green regardless of the fact it was plastic. If we all threw our canisters out that would be a lot of plastic waste...

I currently am barely able to get space for my collection and the issue keeps growing. I guess it is solvable by not getting the hero sets, but I kind of wanted to get furno.

[Bundalings]

@ Grievous: I like the Hero Factory "story" because it is completely silly, and doesn't try to be serious in the least. It gives fans (mostly the young ones) plenty of room for role playing... whatever. It all fits into the canon, because the missions the Heroes take on are so varied and outrageous.

[The Crazy One]

Whether you like the Hero Factory story or not is your preference. I am open minded to complex stories and basic, add in extra bit stories.

That said, after BIONICLE, I do think this story is a breath if fresh air, and it's versitility is great for MOCing and letting your imagination go wild. I think it's brilliant. Also, this is hillarious compared to BIONICLEs depressing attempts at humourous side characters.

[Aanchir]

Yes, that's the issue I have here, basically 20% of the plastic used on the hero sets goes to a flashy package.

I've been there (storing the set) but it gets dull. I am more the guy to put things on display. Also, many of the Glatorian just didn't fit in their canister without destruction. It was clever with slizers that had even a storage transformation. But the usefulness of canisters has since faded...

I could throw them and I guess many people do. But one of the reasons I liked LEGO was how it was rather green regardless of the fact it was plastic. If we all threw our canisters out that would be a lot of plastic waste...

I currently am barely able to get space for my collection and the issue keeps growing. I guess it is solvable by not getting the hero sets, but I kind of wanted to get furno.

Hey, there's always recycling. I'm pretty sure canisters are recyclable, even though I'm not positive about the lids. Check the bottom of them to see if there's one of those recycling marks and numbers on it.

Meanwhile, most of the Glatorian fit in their canisters with only minor disassembly (removing arm armor, tools, and life counters). Gresh is the only one I can think of who's much more complicated than that. And anyway, I like the disassembly because it lets me relive part of the building experience whenever I want to play with the sets. But to each his own.

Barraki were the only sets that had to be ridiculously dismembered to fit in their canisters. Partly, of course, because I believe the canisters are meant to give people an idea of what size set they're buying, so they're made around the same size as the assembled set.

[Zarkan]

[opinion1]

To put it frankly, the Bionicle storyline the last few years just got worse, and worse, and worse, and worse. It was not a good story, it had very few compelling characters, and was very poorly written. A lot of us like the idea of this new theme because so far, it's not bloated with unnecessary and ridiculous details thrown in for little more than cheap attempts at fan-service, and it finally helps stop the bleeding out Bionicle has suffered through for years with a new emphasis and new theme. Plus, so far, it looks like Greg hasn't touched Hero Factory, and that's the best news out of all of it.

[/opinion1]

[opinion2]

To put it frankly, the bionicle storyline blows most kid-oriented storylines and even some adult-oriented storylines out of the water, and the later years were just as good as the first. It was and is a very rich story, filled with interesting scenerios and locations, and had a large number of interesting, compelling characters. A lot of people liked it because, instead of staying in limbo for ten years, it continued expanding the universe it was set in and even allowed fans to participate in the creation. Hero Factory, unfortunately, cuts short what could have been another interesting story arc with the Element Lords and Bota Magna, replacing it with a theme that offers little in actual plot or characters. Plus, so far, it looks as though Greg has no involvement with the storyline, and his talents could really be of use in bringing the new theme alive.

[/opinion2]

[fact1]

Some people like Bionicle, and some people don't. Some people like Hero Factory, and some people don't. There is absolutely no problem with any of these opinions, but they are just opinions and not facts.

[/fact1] Edited July 6, 2010 by Grevious

[dviddy]

Plus, so far, it looks as though Greg has no involvement with the storyline, and his talents could really be of use in bringing the new theme alive.

I'm sorry, but no. Greg is great at handling other people's stories and scripts and ideas, but when he is given control of things, his weak writing and cliched characters, his misunderstanding of what 'violence and maturity' really mean to a story, come through and things become bad. The moment Greg is given creative control of any parts of Hero Factory is the moment this fledgling theme with glints of promise should be discarded by anyone who enjoys proper or engaging storytelling.

And really, if you think the characters in Bionicle were anywhere rich, or somehow blew a good chunk of popular children or adult storylines out of the water, I'm afraid you might be underexposed to proper storytelling. There are many great stories out there, and the things that make them work were largely absent from Bionicle. Not to mention that when it comes to 'expanding the universe,' there is a great way, and a bad way to do it. Throwing random information into the storyline just so it exists? Bad. Like the awkward "Av-toran become Bohrok" thing. Just kind of shoehorned in there. But a side book, a guide book, or a collection of side stories that barely interact with the main plotlines, that would be fantastic. There are entire continents and literally thousands of years that could be explored, but instead most of it just ends up awkwardly shoehorned in as fanservice.

[CabooseBM]

I'm hoping that Hero Factory gets a cartoon.

Pipe dream, I know, but it's possible.

[dviddy]

I'm hoping that Hero Factory gets a cartoon.

Pipe dream, I know, but it's possible.

It's supposed to be getting a cartoon mini-series. Like four twenty-two minute episodes. Basically, a film cut up into television episodes.

[CabooseBM]

It's supposed to be getting a cartoon mini-series. Like four twenty-two minute episodes. Basically, a film cut up into television episodes.

While a pipe-dream, I can't help but hope for a "Hero Factory: Animated" to come from this.

[---Vertea---]

How neat... I'm really looking forward to some Corroder action

[Nightmare]

The animated series will be done by Tinseltoon (the same guys as TLR) so you can expect lots of good CGI quality ;)

EDIT: A new Podcast is up on the HF FM part of the website :D

Edited July 6, 2010 by Nightmare

[Zarkan]

I'm sorry, but no. Greg is great at handling other people's stories and scripts and ideas, but when he is given control of things, his weak writing and cliched characters, his misunderstanding of what 'violence and maturity' really mean to a story, come through and things become bad. The moment Greg is given creative control of any parts of Hero Factory is the moment this fledgling theme with glints of promise should be discarded by anyone who enjoys proper or engaging storytelling.

And really, if you think the characters in Bionicle were anywhere rich, or somehow blew a good chunk of popular children or adult storylines out of the water, I'm afraid you might be underexposed to proper storytelling. There are many great stories out there, and the things that make them work were largely absent from Bionicle. Not to mention that when it comes to 'expanding the universe,' there is a great way, and a bad way to do it. Throwing random information into the storyline just so it exists? Bad. Like the awkward "Av-toran become Bohrok" thing. Just kind of shoehorned in there. But a side book, a guide book, or a collection of side stories that barely interact with the main plotlines, that would be fantastic. There are entire continents and literally thousands of years that could be explored, but instead most of it just ends up awkwardly shoehorned in as fanservice.

See, this is why there is no point in discussing anything with you, Darth Vader. As I've said before, the first rule of discussing anything on a mature, friendly discussion board is "don't assert your personal opinions as facts." Time and time again, you've shown that you have no interest in considering opinions opposite to yours as equally valid and resonable, thus making it a chore to really discuss anything with you. I honestly don't understand why you even bother posting on message boards like Eurobricks, if from the outset your viewpoint is that "I will only respect opionions that are close to or equal to mine, and will shoot down any opposing opinions as false and misinformed."

To be honest, I don't know why I'm here either. After all, by merely posting my appreciating of Greg F and the Bionicle storyline, I run the risk of you responding with an assertive "Bionicle is terrible and you have bad taste for liking it" post. And that's a pity to, as most of the members of this forum are much more accepting of other people's opinions. To be honest, you also remind me of most of the members on one forum I left a while ago, and that's not a good thing.

Bleh, whatever. I don't know why I even bother talking to you, DV. Just because you're a college graduate with a degree in English (or whatever it is you said you had) doesn't give you the right to troll like this (yes, I just used the T word). It's just not enough for you to simply state your opinions - oh no, you also have to assert them as fact and insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. You could really learn something from most of the members on this site. Regardless, from now on, I will be posting as if you aren't even a member of this forum. Perhaps I should have taken this action long ago, and perhaps all the other fans of the storyline here should do the same. After all, there's no point in arguing with someone if they've already decided that you are wrong for simply having a different opinion.

[The Crazy One]

Guys, relax. Oposing opinions or not, please don't ruin a civilized forum with an argument. If you want to disagree with eachother, the PM system is always there for you. It is not for either of you to assume that everything you say is correct, and different opinions are wrong, so let's just end it yeah?

Anyway, I just built Furno, Bulk and Stormer. Wow, they are lovely. Furno's Rookie armour is so sleek, Bulk is menacing and his gun is great and Stormer is just amazing, shame about the hollow weapon arm, but I don't mind. I can't wait to nab the other three, especially Surge, then I'll move onto the Villains. ( Meltdown ).

I also made some MOCs for a comic. I'm starting it tommorow.

Edited July 6, 2010 by The crazy one

[dviddy]

You can enjoy something all you want. That's fine, and even I've enjoyed parts of it myself. But no, I'm not just arguing from my opinions. Like it or not, there are foundational elements to good storytelling, and you can go to any library and find books and books on the matter. There are actual rules and forms and things that a good writer and a good story will understand and utilize. Storytelling is one of the oldest and most powerful forms of human communication, and there are reasons good stories resonate with large groups of people. And then there are reasons bad stories are universally understood to be bad (the "Last Airbender" film, for instance). The fact of it is that Bionicle as it went on became more and more a cliched 'group of generic good guys go against generic bad guys in a one-element-specific land with generic dialogue and random plot expositions shoehorned into random conversations'. One-dimensional characters in one-dimensional lands is not good storytelling. There can (and are) still enjoyable moments in the story, no one will deny that.

Not to mention that any accusation of trolling is inaccurate. You asked a question, I answered, you replied, etc.

[Aanchir]

You can enjoy something all you want. That's fine, and even I've enjoyed parts of it myself. But no, I'm not just arguing from my opinions. Like it or not, there are foundational elements to good storytelling, and you can go to any library and find books and books on the matter. There are actual rules and forms and things that a good writer and a good story will understand and utilize. Storytelling is one of the oldest and most powerful forms of human communication, and there are reasons good stories resonate with large groups of people. And then there are reasons bad stories are universally understood to be bad (the "Last Airbender" film, for instance). The fact of it is that Bionicle as it went on became more and more a cliched 'group of generic good guys go against generic bad guys in a one-element-specific land with generic dialogue and random plot expositions shoehorned into random conversations'. One-dimensional characters in one-dimensional lands is not good storytelling. There can (and are) still enjoyable moments in the story, no one will deny that.

Not to mention that any accusation of trolling is inaccurate. You asked a question, I answered, you replied, etc.

I don't remember any cliche good guys or bad guys in the later years. They all seemed fairly unique up until the end, besides the Skrall who were alike in all ways short of a hive mind. If you could give an example of a character who was a generic good guy or bad guy, I might be able to give that statement some credence, but as it is it seems like you either didn't read the books or read them and ignored any parts but the fight scenes. Of course I know you better than that, but obviously something didn't connect between the actual material and what you saw of it.

And I don't see why every location should be by necessity an arbitrary mish-mash of environments-- you can't just set every story on a tropical island with massive glaciers, a conveniently active volcano, a plethora of inhabitable tunnels, a dense jungle, and a barren desert. A universe where all the locations are like that is unrealistic, and makes each individual location feel like the same old, same old.

I also don't see how any of this has to do with Greg. After all, he's had a pretty strong hand in the story from the beginning (the comics have been the most consistent story medium throughout BIONICLE's nine-year run), and the only real places where he was given absolutely free reign were the story serials and the early 2003 Bohrok-Kal story arc. Which may in fact be bad compared to other story content, depending on your opinion. But that doesn't explain why, for instance, you opposed single-element environments (which were planned for the 2006, 2007, and 2008 story years since near the beginning), or why you singled out Greg as the cause of literary atrophy in later years.

Really from your posts it's hard to tell you're discussing the same story as I am. I understand how it's a matter of opinion whether the BIONICLE story was any good, but you seem to think that it ripped some firm and absolute rules of storytelling to shreds, when in fact I saw none of that even in the later years. What I saw were unique characters (Ackar, Kiina, Tarix, Makuta Gorast, Makuta Krika, etc.) whose presence positively influenced the story. Greg's no literary genius, and I never expect to see him getting a very big name even in the comics world, but I can't say the BIONICLE story would have been any better in the hands of another writer (Hapka certainly didn't contribute much with her three books).

[InnerRayg]

Aanchir, are you seriously unable to think of any generic characters from the last years of Bionicle? Do I even need to drag out the "big stupid brute" of Nocturn? The evil megalomaniac of Icarax? It goes on.

There was some depth I thought, and I was always really proud of how characters like Krika turned out, but the more and more I think about it the more I realize the amazing personality and depth I remember were products of my own imagination more than anything else.