Confession of a traitor

[Hewman]

When Lego first introduced the Pirates theme I was getting what I thought was too old for lego, so I never owned a set when I was younger. When I rediscovered lego as an adult I saw all these cool looking pirate sets in old catalogues. So last year I was very excited with the reintroduction of Pirates. I bought a couple sets, loved them and ended up buying them all. However, the downside is that because the line was only out for a year I only have two ships for a sea battle, Brickbeard's and the Imperial Flagship which isn't near enough.

I really prefer new sets over used and the prices of old Pirates sets (even used) on bricklink and ebay are pretty steep. After reading some reviews here of clone brands here it didn't look like the enlighten ships were too bad quality wise and I quite like some of the designs of their sets that I saw on ebay (excluding the direct rip-offs of old Lego designs). Given the price I didn't think it was too big a risk to take so I ordered a MISB set. What follows is my experience building this set.

Now I didn't have particularly high expectations for a clone brand, so it wasn't like I was going to only accept it being up to Lego quality. The first thing I notice is that the box is realtively small, it had two cardboard boxes inside all packed full of plastic bags with pieces in them. The sails were packed nicely in one of the boxes greatly reducing the chances of creasing occurring. I pull the bags out of the boxes and the hull pieces which I notice have little screws in them, I'm not sure but I had my doubts there were screws in old Lego pirate sets. The instruction sheet is pretty small, there are part call outs at each step, but the steps tend to involve a lot of pieces. So it's time to get building.

Minifigs: The first thing I notice is the hands aren't attached to the arms of the figs, so I gather up all the torsos and hands only to discover I'm one hand short, I guess the amputee will have to be the guy operating the cannon. The hands are annoying to put in, they require a lot of force and often don't click in neatly. On the first fig I tried the force required popped an arm out of the torso, so I had to adjust my technique to hold in the arms (which are very loose by Lego standards). The next issue was the headgear. Some hats went on fine depending on the style, others were impossible to fit on correctly, so I had to force them on crookedly then twist. The printing of the torsos is well below Lego standards and still way below anything on the new collectible figs.

The Ship: The weirdest thing about how the pieces are packed is that the pieces of string are completely loose in the bags, not even slightly coiled to protect them and all sorts of pieces catch on the string. The pieces themselves don't feel or sound like Lego pieces. They're quite brittle and when shuffled around together they don't make that reassuring gentle sound like lego bricks do. The colours aren't too bad generally, the red and yellow are a little lighter than Lego, however the biggest issue is with the black. Lego black is usually beautiful and shiny, Enlighten pieces were dull and dirty looking. This may seem weird but the black 1x1 round bricks seemed to be slightly attracted to each other magnetically. This was a little scary, so when a piece dropped on the floor and one of my cats (yes I'm a crazy cat man as well as a crazy lego man)wanted to pick it up in her mouth there was no way I was letting it happen, not just a choking hazard but potential metal poisoning (yes this is conjecture on my part, but better safe than sorry).

The clutch power of the pieces is highly variable and the hull wouldn't stay together until there were pieces joining the segments on both top and bottom. Even then there were noticeable gaps between hull pieces due to the lack of precision in the manufacturing process. The instructions are reasonably good, but not for young children because of the amount of pieces in each step. Colours are way off in the instructions (particularly blacks) and way worse than any problems I've encountered with Lego instructions.

Besides some of the clutch power issues and the problem with some pieces not lining up perfectly with others the biggest issue was pieces with clips. They attach so poorly to other pieces and there is no nice 'click' to tell you it's done properly. The string was also an issue as it had disentangled itself into three separate threads. Usually I'd put a Lego string in my mouth for two secs to get the end right, no way was I doing that with this though. Twisting alone didn't fix the string so this was a really annoying part of the build.

The sails: I was expecting them to be quite frayed at the edges, but they weren't too bad in this regard. They were however annoyingly stiff, liked they'd been starched 20 times. The printing on them was quite poor and it leaked through unevenly to the back side of the sails making the backs look very messy.

Once finished and on the shelf, the set looks ok, but playing with it causes pieces to fall off regualrly.

I knew what I was potentially getting into when I bought this set, however I thought I should warn others so they can learn of my mistake.

Now the only question is what to do with the set. I wouldn't feel right selling it for money, as I only like to sell what I would be happy to receive in terms of quality. Do I donate to charity or the child of a friend and worry about them getting lead poisoning or growing up hating Lego because this set they got wouldn't go together nicely. It's a tough call. Overall as cheap as it was (probably 1/3 the price of an equivalent sized Lego set).

Thanks for reading!

Edited October 8, 2010 by hewman

[Zeya]

As a software engineer who works hard to make a quality consumer product, it burns me to know that piracy (no pun intended) constitutes something upwards of 20% when compared to legitimate sales. It's easy to argue that Lego doesn't need any more money or that they make a product difficult to obtain, but... we all know what the truth is. We've all pirated a movie or music album, at the very least to tide us over until we can legitimately buy the item; kind of a gray area. So I'm not flaming you. I don't think the off-brand patent-infringing goods should be kept around here. It's a matter of principal and honor, if not legality.

You make a very good point about the lead content; I wouldn't give that to a child. Quick story: I went to my local lego store. We were sifting around in the little bin with minifig parts and a little girl was there. She pops a little minifig head in her mouth and swallows. Lol, my girlfriend lets out a noise like "eep!.... she just swallowed a lego!" You see my point. You don't want a child getting lead poisoning because they see a tasty snack.

I think you should dispose of them. Proper disposal like with alkaline batteries would be best I suppose, but otherwise there is the old garbage bin.

[vexorian]

Hmnn wow, to be honest I have been getting a lot of different 'samples' (it is like going to the zoo) due to buying bulks of parts for very cheap. There is almost always about 10% content in clone brands and bootlegs and I plan to donate them to charity by the end of the year.

I never really stopped to think about poisoning, well, in my case I live in a country where nobody would care. Kids just avoid eating things or they die because even if there wasn't poison, a clinic would not attend them in time for choking and stuff. That said I never heard of cases of lead poisoning even though most kids get the worst quality possible of toys.

Of course, now that you mention it, I am giving it second thoughts about donating all my clones. That said, I keep the clones very close to some "Magnetix" samples I have and I did not see the magnets attracting any pieces from my clone/bootleg samples, although I never actively tried. How do you recognize enlighten bricks? I can identify megabloks and TyCo (yeah they make bricks too for some reason) but the other tons of brands aare a little hard to identify.

I am actually surprised to hear about it because I thought that lead was used in paint, and I really hope your bootleg was so bad that the pieces were painted, was it?

Edit : Anyway, enlighten is an infamous bootleg brand that steal designs from LEGO. Clone brands are actually legit companies that do not steal designs and at least try not to do terrible in the quality department, for example megabloks, Cobi, oxford and the most recent click brick. The brick patent has expired long ago so it is not illegal to use the same brick design and dimensions for compatibility, that's what clone brands do.

Edited September 30, 2010 by vexorian

[Hewman]

There weren't any markings to show brand. The set I had was a clone not a bootleg, although I saw a couple bootlegs for sale. All the pieces looked like late 70s to early 80s designs to me, so their patents have probably run out too (edit, the hull pieces probably are breaking a patent, as they are from late 80s).

I have no proof of lead in these sets, it's pure conjecture! I believe lead has been detected in some Chinese toys, whether or not they've appearerd in enlighten bricks I have no idea, they certainly don't feel like Lego bricks, but I can't conclude from that, that there are poisonous metals in them.

Edited October 8, 2010 by hewman

[Peppermint_M]

Enlighten = Bootleg.

Bootleg = Criminal Copy of actual Lego from similar chinese companies that bring other bootleg action figures and toys.

A Clone Brand is simply a brand that can combine with Lego, they have unique designs and their own elements, though they use the same dimension as the popular bricks.

The pirate ship designs you didn't recognise were taken from another manufacturer like Oxford or Mega. They apply the exact same regard to quality on the compatible brand rip-offs as they do the Lego product Rip off (i.e. None).

Now that I have once again defined these terms...

I have seen the pirate boat reviews and I have to say, I would never buy enlighten, quite simply because they are such bad quality. I am not averse to the custom accessories within (Chromed weapons and suchlike). Enlighten are a bootleg and more concerned with brand confusion than quality. I am tempted by their brown RC rail (much nicer than bley and cheaper too).

If you want to pay less for a pirate ship, pick up one from another legitimate manufacturer.

[Siegfried]

I'm not sure but I had my doubts there were screws in old Lego pirate sets.

They do. I can provide photos if you need proof. Take a look here for example;

See the holes in the top? That's where the screws go are.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Siegfried
To help Shadows

[peterab]

Bootleg = Criminal Copy of actual Lego from similar chinese companies that bring other bootleg action figures and toys.

I think you are overstating the illegality of the bootlegs. Copyright and Patent and Trademark law differs around the world. In particular China doesn't necessarily recognize international Copyright so the manufacture of these sets even if they are a direct copy is legal (in China). What may be illegal is the importation and sale of these sets in countries that do grant and recognize copyrights. Also there is a difference between criminal laws and civil laws, and copyright is generally a civil issue despite the movie and recording industries attempts to equate copyright infringement with stealing and piracy.

[Peppermint_M]

I think you are overstating the illegality of the bootlegs. Copyright and Patent and Trademark law differs around the world. In particular China doesn't necessarily recognize international Copyright so the manufacture of these sets even if they are a direct copy is legal (in China). What may be illegal is the importation and sale of these sets in countries that do grant and recognize copyrights. Also there is a difference between criminal laws and civil laws, and copyright is generally a civil issue despite the movie and recording industries attempts to equate copyright infringement with stealing and piracy.

I am aware of this, but distilling it down to the most basic of terms was my aim. It takes a lot of effort to explain that Shifty/Enlighten and the like are not the same thing as Cobi and Mega Blocks. Even now.

It may be legal in China, but considering I am typing this on my laptop here in Wales I think the law means that UK Customs will sieze any large imports of Enlighten but are perfectly fine with bringing in Cobi and Best Lock.

[peterab]

It takes a lot of effort to explain that Shifty/Enlighten and the like are not the same thing as Cobi and Mega Blocks. Even now.

That's because it's a subtle difference, and trying to simplify it doesn't help clarify the difference, if you use terms that don't apply like criminal. In fact part of the difficulty in explaining the difference is because many people don't understand copyrights (and don't care), and the fact that the laws vary from country to country and have varied quite markedly over time. Also copyright seems to be applied differently depending on domain. For example a list of instructions such as a recipe has traditionally been held to not be copyright, but similar lists in knitting are (because they are viewed to embody the design which may be copyright), and thirdly computer programs which seems to be a random mix of both depending on the prevailing wind.

I guess the central issue I have is that you painted Enlighten as an illegal operation who we shouldn't support, but IMHO Elighten are probably not illegal (the importers may be) and I see the decision as to if I should support such a company as varying according to my local laws (not the whims of Welsh customs officers), my morality and assessment of the justness of my local laws, and most importantly if the Enlighten sets actually meet my needs.

[Thrund]

The pirate ship designs you didn't recognise were taken from another manufacturer like Oxford or Mega.

Actually, the latest Enlighten pirate sets do seem to be original designs. They have also recently released a couple of high-detail collector's models (grand piano and handgun) which are not only original, but seem to be really nice designs. So it looks as though they have employed an actual set designer and are starting to move from bootleg to clone.

[Shadows]

They do. I can provide photos if you need proof.

I need proof, please show me where any past (or present) Pirate set had screws. Set inventory on Peeron or BL will do. Instructions would be even better, but aren't really necessary as I have all of them (and no screws).

See the holes in the top? That's where the screws go.

You've lost your mind or you have a really different definition of screw than I do.

[Siegfried]

Set inventory on Peeron or BL will do.

When I made that post I had the the same thought, but no image was the right angle. For example;

You've lost your mind or you have a really different definition of screw than I do.

Well you should know I lost my mind years ago, but on the issue of my screw definition, or at least one of them, let the photos decide! (Sorry about the photos; I shot them with room lighting.)

Both pieces.

I bought them on eBay with this lot. (The red hull is part of the Luvly Laady right now so I can't provide photos of that hull, but the blue one is still unused.) As you can see they came with three center sections which implies they are from Black Seas Barracuda.

Bow.

Stern.

Stern front screw.

Stern rear screw.

Stern part ID.

Thoughts?

[Shadows]

Thoughts?

I meant screws in terms of them being loose in the original set and requiring installation. That's what I thought he was referring to.

As for the pics, I don't even remember those, but I don't doubt they're there. Now I want to find a set and take them apart to see if it would be possible to mix and match to create a new colour combination. The one article I read on that subject never mentioned screws (but did refer to a lot of prying apart), so I have to assume that not all hulls had them.

Since I can't argue with pics and you made so much effort to take them, I'll concede half the point.

I pull the bags out of the boxes and the hull pieces which I notice have little screws in them, I'm not sure but I had my doubts there were screws in old Lego pirate sets.

Fine. I give up. I read that too quickly and thought the screws were in the bags.

[Siegfried]

Fine. I give up. I read that too quickly and thought the screws were in the bags.

In your defense, my reply implied that, so I have edited it so others do not make the same mistake.

See the holes in the top? That's where the screws go are.

[Peppermint_M]

That's because it's a subtle difference, and trying to simplify it doesn't help clarify the difference, if you use terms that don't apply like criminal. In fact part of the difficulty in explaining the difference is because many people don't understand copyrights (and don't care), and the fact that the laws vary from country to country and have varied quite markedly over time. Also copyright seems to be applied differently depending on domain. For example a list of instructions such as a recipe has traditionally been held to not be copyright, but similar lists in knitting are (because they are viewed to embody the design which may be copyright), and thirdly computer programs which seems to be a random mix of both depending on the prevailing wind.

I guess the central issue I have is that you painted Enlighten as an illegal operation who we shouldn't support, but IMHO Elighten are probably not illegal (the importers may be) and I see the decision as to if I should support such a company as varying according to my local laws (not the whims of Welsh customs officers), my morality and assessment of the justness of my local laws, and most importantly if the Enlighten sets actually meet my needs.

Ok then. I must also cite the BrickJournal issue 10 that featured an interesting article on TLGs reaction to a crate of Enlighten product entering the market. They were not best pleased about blatent intellectual property infringement. Just look at the fuss members make over kids online passing off MOCs as their own or anyone making a MOC that looks similar to anothers.

My only issue with Enlighten is the quality. I have a few sets and they seem to explode on completion due to clutch and plastic problems. It is just as I said, there is a marked difference in quality between globally legitimate companies and manufacturers like Enlighten that take advantage of local law to make quick money of cheap product.

[peterab]

Ok then. I must also cite the BrickJournal issue 10 that featured an interesting article on TLGs reaction to a crate of Enlighten product entering the market. They were not best pleased about blatent intellectual property infringement. Just look at the fuss members make over kids online passing off MOCs as their own or anyone making a MOC that looks similar to anothers.

What is in the best interests of a global company may not necessarily be in the best interests of us, their customers, and without the ability for the customer to push back a reasonable balance is unlikely to be found. Monopolies are considered a bad thing for this very reason. TLG had the legitimate protection of patents for a long time, and they now have a dominant position due to it. They will also be able to defend their copyright on their designs themselves if they are legitimate as in the case of the above crate. I don't think we need to help them out any more (and probably undermine our own interests) by simply dismissing their opposition as criminal. Enlighten already seem to be making their own designs in response to the difficulties in exporting their copied sets.

My only issue with Enlighten is the quality. I have a few sets and they seem to explode on completion due to clutch and plastic problems. It is just as I said, there is a marked difference in quality between globally legitimate companies and manufacturers like Enlighten that take advantage of local law to make quick money of cheap product.

Interestingly enough the two people in the Enlighten train thread over in train tech report that the quality of the new trains seems pretty good, maybe not as good as Lego but pretty close and much better than a lot of the scary warnings many others in the thread made. They certainly reported the clutch power as being fine, which for me makes the enlighten trains quite a bit more attractive.