[KEY TOPIC] LDD 4 Bugs and brick errors

[Toa_Of_Justice]

I found a major bug involving 59426 (Cross Axle 5.5 with Stop)--some parts obey its stop, others obey it partially, and still others totally ignore it.

Parts that obey the stop (trans-green): 32068 (cross hole only), 42003, 6590, 53585, 6536 (cross hole only), 32013, 32123, 32039, 45590, 42610, 6641*, 6553, 32184, 32291, 41678 (round holes only), 44809, 32187, 33299, 32192, 32557, 63869, 93571, 64276 (cross hole only), 57585, 50923, 87408 (center round hole), 53586 (cross holes only), 57520, 48723 (cross hole only), 93575, 61054 (cross holes), 32177 (cross holes), 55615 (when two or more round holes are connected), 61905 (cross holes only), 41475 (cross hole), 74741 (cross hole), 75348 (cross hole), 87796 (cross hole), 64179 (horizontal round holes), 57028 (cross holes), 64178 (horizontal round holes), 32475, 32476, 61927 (cross holes), 57519 (cross hole), 2444, 55982, and 30155.

Parts that allow the stop partway through or allow a cross axle to go in between legal areas (trans-yellow): 32034, 87082, 32014, 41678 (cross holes only), 32016, 32015, 92907 (cross holes only), 53533 (round holes furthest from pin), 6572, 48496 (outer round holes), 87408 (outer round holes), 89650 (outer round holes and cross holes), 32069, 93575, 61054 (outer round holes), 41475 (round hole), 74741 (round hole), 75348 (round hole), 61904, 57796, 87796 (outer round holes), 64179, 64178, 32475, and 57519 (only some round holes?).

Parts that ignore the stop (trans-neon orange): 32068 (round hole only), 32126 (round hole), 6536 (round hole only), 2852, 90202, 6571, 64276 (round hole only), 92907 (round hole only), 53533 (round hole closest to pin), 58177, 48496 (center round hole), 48989, 89650 (center round hole), 53586 (outer round hole only), 48723 (round hole only), 57518, 61054 (center round holes), 32177 (round hole), 2850, 55615 (when one round hole is connected), 61905 (round holes only), 44224, 44225, 32294, 87796 (round holes), 64179 (vertical round holes), 57028 (round holes), 64178 (vertical round holes), 61927 (round holes), 87797, 90661, 47297, 64711, 85940, 42608, 89509, 2817, 32529, 32530, 6118, 55981, 52041, and 56902.

Brickshelf is down at the moment, and I cannot attach my LXF file directly. I'll try again tomorrow.

EDIT: Here's my LXF file.

-Toa Of Justice

*P.S. 6641 won't let an entire module through its parallel cross hole, but it will do so with its perpendicular cross hole.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Toa_Of_Justice

[Zerobricks]

Wow, good job!!! Thanks for finding these. IMO its better if a part fits illgelly than doesnt fit legally at all. How long did it take you to try all these?

[Tore M]

Very nice list Toa_Of_Justice! I've noticed some irregular behaviour with 59426, but never sat down to compile such an overview. Good job!

[Toa_Of_Justice]

Wow, good job!!! Thanks for finding these. IMO its better if a part fits illgelly than doesnt fit legally at all. How long did it take you to try all these?

Thanks, and you're welcome. I remember spending several hours, sifting through the entire TECHNIC axles and connectors palette. I should mention that I haven't tested every part that has a cross or pin hole that go all the way through, but I think I got most of them. Anyone is welcome to test whether other parts obey or ignore 59426's stop. In the meantime, I need to get back to my college work!

Very nice list Toa_Of_Justice! I've noticed some irregular behaviour with 59426, but never sat down to compile such an overview. Good job!

Thank you very much!

-Toa Of Justice

[Superkalle]

Excellent work TOA!!!

[Shine]

Got a few new ones here.

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It's possible to make this by placing a headlamp, then something else on top (in this instance a 1x4 plate). Next, put a bar of some sort through the center of the headlamp and try to slide the headlamp along it. LDD will recognize two different positions within each stud area on the underside of the plate. One of these will be the normal area a stud can fill, while the other will be partially colliding with the plate. You can then place more headlamps along the same bar in invalid locations. Removing the plate and attempting to replace it solves the issue.

Basically, only this should be possible.

----

I think this speaks for itself.

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Part #56902 accepts various studded pieces in what should be a Technic pin hole. Some work and some don't though -- it seems fairly random. For example, the stud on a minifig chainsaw fits but not one on a 1x1 brick.

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Place a headlight brick onto another as shown, then get a bar-type piece and slide it as far down into the headlight brick as possible. Saving and reopening the file will display an error and the bar element(s) will be removed.

[Superkalle]

It's possible to make this by placing a headlamp, then something else on top (in this instance a 1x4 plate). Next, put a bar of some sort through the center of the headlamp and try to slide the headlamp along it. LDD will recognize two different positions within each stud area on the underside of the plate. One of these will be the normal area a stud can fill, while the other will be partially colliding with the plate. You can then place more headlamps along the same bar in invalid locations. Removing the plate and attempting to replace it solves the issue.

Well spotted.

I have no clue why it does like that

I think this speaks for itself.

Not sure I get this

This is not a legal build since the sideays stud edge of the headlight bricks sticks out more then the edge of the brick.

Part #56902 accepts various studded pieces in what should be a Technic pin hole. Some work and some don't though -- it seems fairly random. For example, the stud on a minifig chainsaw fits but not one on a 1x1 brick.

That's because they have to manually add the connectivity for each brick. If you compile a list of bricks you think has incorrect connectivity I can pass it on to the LDD team and we can hope it gets fixed.

Place a headlight brick onto another as shown, then get a bar-type piece and slide it as far down into the headlight brick as possible. Saving and reopening the file will display an error and the bar element(s) will be removed.

Well spotted issue. It seems the headlight brick allows the bar to be sunk into the stud top, and the collision is only checked when opening the file, and then it gets removed.

[Calabar]

Not sure I get this

This is not a legal build since the sideays stud edge of the headlight bricks sticks out more then the edge of the brick.

You're right! I tested that with real bricks.

[Shine]

Not sure I get this

This is not a legal build since the sideays stud edge of the headlight bricks sticks out more then the edge of the brick.

Oh wow, I always thought that the stud edge matched up with the side of the brick.

Especially considering that.

Well spotted issue. It seems the headlight brick allows the bar to be sunk into the stud top, and the collision is only checked when opening the file, and then it gets removed.

The same issue also seems to occur with parts 59900, 6188, 3062, and 4589. These are the 1x1 cone and barrel elements.

[Esser-Z]

Aquashark suit doesn't fit on a minifig, even after the recent patch. :/

[Aanchir]

Aquashark suit doesn't fit on a minifig, even after the recent patch. :/

Well, the weird thing is that it did fit in LDD 4.0, but didn't after 4.1. When I went to upgrade my old sets, it was a very unpleasant surprise. Hopefully it gets fixed just like the Castle armor piece, which similarly stopped working between LDD 3 and 4 but was fixed for 4.1.

[Toa_Of_Justice]

The following error message comes up every time I try to load a model file while I have a model file open:

LDD used to load the old instance over the new one. Now I have to close LDD and then open the other model file.

Why this change in behavior? Wouldn't allowing multiple instances be a better solution?

-Toa Of Justice

[Superkalle]

The following error message comes up every time I try to load a model file while I have a model file open:

Strange - I don't have that problem. Has it alwasy been like that? Have you tried to do what it says - reinstall LDD?

About multiple instances, I'm guessing they don't have that because it would be confusing to kids with a bunch of instances active.

[Aanchir]

The following error message comes up every time I try to load a model file while I have a model file open:

LDD used to load the old instance over the new one. Now I have to close LDD and then open the other model file.

Why this change in behavior? Wouldn't allowing multiple instances be a better solution?

-Toa Of Justice

That error message comes up for me often also. Sometimes it even happens when an LDD window is not open, which generally means the LDD process is running in the background for some reason. It took some time getting used to closing LDD before downloading a new model file, since before version 4.1 I'd had the opposite problem (LDD would tend to crash if I opened an LXF or LXFML from outside the LDD window, except when LDD was already running).

[Toa_Of_Justice]

Strange - I don't have that problem. Has it alwasy been like that? Have you tried to do what it says - reinstall LDD?

About multiple instances, I'm guessing they don't have that because it would be confusing to kids with a bunch of instances active.

I tried reinstalling, but the error message still came up. I think there should be an option for allowing multiple instances, or at least a reversion back to the old way (loading a new instance over the current instance). Then again, another drawback of having multiple instances could be immense strain on the CPU (especially if both instances are large models with lots of pieces).

-Toa Of Justice

[KartoffelViking]

Part 64713, conical drill with spikes, has 25 grooves instead of 24 along its back interior circumference. It should have 24 grooves so a 24 tooth gear (e.g. part 3648, gear wheel z24) can be aligned with the grooves.

Edited June 14, 2011 by KartoffelViking

[Toa_Of_Justice]

I was building some experimental Hero Factory weapons in LDD, and I found a couple of bugs crawling around in them. I suspect Witch Doctor sent the bugs.

In the top weapon, the flick-fire missile's TECHNIC pin goes partway through the 3.2 mm bar hole of the HF gun base.

In the bottom weapon, the 2x2 dish won't go very far up the lance, even though it doesn't seem to collide with the Furno 1.0 sword.

LXF File

-Toa Of Justice

[Superkalle]

I was building some experimental Hero Factory weapons in LDD, and I found a couple of bugs crawling around in them. I suspect Witch Doctor sent the bugs.

In the top weapon, the flick-fire missile's TECHNIC pin goes partway through the 3.2 mm bar hole of the HF gun base.

In the bottom weapon, the 2x2 dish won't go very far up the lance, even though it doesn't seem to collide with the Furno 1.0 sword.

LXF File

-Toa Of Justice

To start with: Cool weapons

About the errors: Booth seemt to be colission box error. The bottom one is most serious, since it will not allow you to place the 2x2 dish at all.

BTW, these are the brick bug classificatios I use for myself:

1) Using the brick will crash LDD or a brick placed legaly will be removed when opening the file next time

2) The brick cannot be used/placed as intended (missign connectivity, to big collison volumes)

3) The brick can be placed illegally (too small collission volumes, i.e. parts can clip into each other)

4) Cosmetic error (outline errors, small details omitted...)

Normally, I up the severity one step if the brick is a DbM brick or if the connection has been used in an official set the last 5 years

[Lego Otaku]

EDIT: I need new glasses

Edited July 8, 2011 by Lego Otaku

[Superkalle]

You forgot #5: legal connecting brick(s) and part(s) that gets removed next time you open the LDD file. There's a bit about using 4L lightsaber bar and a few certain bricks that works fine but if you save then reopen, the bar gets removed to "not connected" error.

Isn't that what I wrote in #1

[Lego Otaku]

Isn't that what I wrote in #1

Oops, I only saw the crash part and didn't notice a different issue in #1.

[Shine]

part #2400 (GATE 5x9)

Connects fine, just looks wonky on one side.

[Superkalle]

Oops, I only saw the crash part and didn't notice a different issue in #1.

No prob

[BrickWild]

Today, I've made a 'handbuilt' wheel.

And when I tried to move it, I came up with this:

Edited July 30, 2011 by BrickWild

[Lego Otaku]

Using wheel 6248 for scaffolding and tire 3483 or 61254, mount it somewhere, remove the wheel while leaving tire and pin in place. Mount the round 2x2 brick, moved the brick and tired, rotated them, etc no crash.

What tire did you use exactly? Can you repeat the instance that lead to the crash? If not, you probably suffered a random crash for no reason. If you can reproduce the crash, specify what parts was used.