[KEY TOPIC] LDD 4 Bugs and brick errors

[Superkalle]

You have sharp eyes, Prateek! It looks like you are right looking at the side view below. However, I don't have the physcial helemet so I can't compare. Can anyone confirm that the LDD helmet sits to high comparted to the real deal?

[BrickWild]

Everytime when I tried to import an LDraw file, nothing happens!

[Vincent Kessels]

Everytime when I tried to import an LDraw file, nothing happens!

Did you look at the LDRAW.XML missing in LDD4 topic?

[Bojan Pavsic]

First of all, let me get back on my topic about LDD disappearing. I still didn't figure it out why, but it is repeatable (when it happens, it will happen always). It's NOT the language / regional settings, because right now it does disappear on any language (that i tried on). The funny thing is, that right now it does vanish on the file that i'm currently working on when i open it (thus making it impossible to open that file). But! (yea, there's a but). When i load up LDD and do Import File and import that same file that can't be opened, it works (and import never failed, at least for now). What is the difference between Open LDD 4.0 file and Import LDD 4.0 file... Well, that's TLG's part to figure out.

[Nicolas]

Did you look at the LDRAW.XML missing in LDD4 topic?

I have the same issue. I have put the missing xml file in the right spot. Still nothing happens.

[Johnnhiszippy3]

I am having a problem opening large files created in LDD 3, and reading though other posts on this topic, I think it is different from what other people are experiencing.

When I large files, LDD 4 acts like it is opening the file, but when it is done "loading" I am left with a blank grid (LDD doesn't shut down) and if I try to add new pieces, they just "disapear". I've tried importing the files, and the same thing happens.

Also, I tried creating a large file by importing lots of different files (about 50,000 pieces total), and everything seems to work find until I save and reopen the file, and the file will not load, like above.

Did Lego set some kind of piece limit on the file size? I had no trouble with large files in LDD 3, even when rotating and using hinges.

I've reverted back to version 3....for now, although version 4 has some very cool features.

[Superkalle]

I am having a problem opening large files created in LDD 3, and reading though other posts on this topic, I think it is different from what other people are experiencing.

If you want, send me the file, and I'll have a look at it. PM me in that case (or if you allready have my mail adress).

EDIT: Just found out that bricks take up 30% more memory in 4.0 then in 3.0. This is because of the added shading and rendering information needed. This means that if there is a memory shortage issue on your computer, it could explaning your problem.

When i load up LDD and do Import File and import that same file that can't be opened, it works (and import never failed, at least for now). What is the difference between Open LDD 4.0 file and Import LDD 4.0 file... Well, that's TLG's part to figure out.

I edited your original post like we discussed

About your open vs. import problem - I'll pass the question along to the LDD Developers, and let's see what they say.

EDIT: Got information that there shouldn't be any difference in the load process in Open vs. Import. The only thing is that in Open, a new scence is initialized and created, but in Import, the existing scence is used.

[Bojan Pavsic]

I guess there's a problem in the scene initialization part.

Some occasions when LDD dissapears:

- on theme selection screen right after LDD start, when switching theme.

- on opening a file

- on changing theme during work (like working in creator mode, trying to switch to DbM or LU mode for a piece)

That's the only 3 occasions. NEVER during work (placing parts, working with palettes - searching / closing / opening ..., rotation, coloring)... Basicly only on scene initialization or theme switch.

What does LDD do when you switch theme?

Edit:

I did a nice little test:

1. OPENED FileOrig.lxf (let's call it like that) - LDD *puff* vanished

2. Opened LDD and IMPORTED FileOrig.lxf - worked flawless

3. Saved the file under FileImp.lxf

4. OPENED FileImp.lxf - no problemo

5. Unzipped both files (FileOrig.lxf and FileImp.lxf) - compared them

6. Brick order info was the same (other then transformation data, because i didn't put the imported object at the same location, but that doesn't matter).

7. Number of lines - data count - was the same, file size was a bit different because of the float values.

8. What poked me in the eye was: LXFML / Meta / Brand tag in the xml, where the name was "Factory" in one and "MakeAndCreate" in the other - with Factory being in the new FileImp.lxf (because i didn't change theme on LDD open).

9. I dared to change the Brand name in the FileOrig.lxf to "Factory" and voila... LDD opened the file without any problem.

From which i conclude there's a problem not in the open / import part, but specificaly in the Theme setting part, which then shows up in other operations that use that function. So if any of the TLG developers look at this, please please when u have some free time, check the Theme selection function, what part of it could cause LDD to disappear. Btw, it's the same in all modes, Compatibility minimum, full, with or without shaders, outlines etc... so graphics has nothing to do with it.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Bojan Pavsic

[Superkalle]

From which i conclude there's a problem not in the open / import part, but specificaly in the Theme setting part, which then shows up in other operations that use that function. So if any of the TLG developers look at this, please please when u have some free time, check the Theme selection function, what part of it could cause LDD to disappear. Btw, it's the same in all modes, Compatibility minimum, full, with or without shaders, outlines etc... so graphics has nothing to do with it.

I've forwarded this info. Let's hope they have some time to look into it.

PS: The 20 tooth wheel has now been fixed in DB.lif - now we just have to wait for the next update

[Aanchir]

Figure I might as well post some color "errors" I've encountered. These are not just places where the color "doesn't look right" to me, but rather places where it is rendered incorrectly.

• Colors 114, 117, and 129 should all be transparent with glitter. While this may not be possible on LDD, it should be noted that of these three, only the first two are actually rendered as transparent. For whatever reason, color 129 is rendered as an opaque purplish color rather than a transparent purple color.
  
• Colors 176 Red Flip/Flop, 178 Yellow Flip/Flop, and 179 Silver Flip/Flop have very unique properties that probably can't be rendered on LDD. They are metallic and reflective, and appear solid under most lighting conditions but translucent when backlit. If you look closely while holding a part in this color you can sometimes actually see the silhouette of your own finger behind it. In LDD 3.0 these were just rendered as transparent, and I much prefer how 4.0 classifies them as solid. However, in LDD 4.0 only 179 Silver Flip/Flop is treated as metallic. The other two, 176 and 178, appear in the red and brown color categories, respectively, and do not appear metallic when used for parts in the scene.
  
• Color 13 does not remotely resemble the color that appears on this color chart. Instead, it is rendered as a vibrant orange. The actual color palette should be consulted. I do not know this color's name or anything it has been used for, and it does not appear by default in the LEGO Universe color palette, so this is a very minor problem.
  
• There are some colors which have been used frequently in recent years which do not appear in the default color palette. These include 297 Warm Gold, 298 Cool Silver Drum Lacquered, and 299 Lacquered Gold (not sure if this is the official name). Of these, only the first two will render on LDD at all. Warm Gold is the most egregious offender because it is a well-known and frequently-used color-- it even appears in bricks from the DesignByMe palette on LEGO Digital Designer.

[Superkalle]

Figure I might as well post some color "errors" I've encountered. These are not just places where the color "doesn't look right" to me, but rather places where it is rendered incorrectly.

Thanks for this info Aanchir. I'll make sure to pass it on (unless the LDD Developers read it themselves here).

Some comments

1) Isn't 50 Phospohrent White also incorrectly placed in the 4.0 palette. I'd rather see it go under Transparent Colors (basically since it isn't a pure solid)

2) I agree completely with the Red and Yello flip/flop. Side note: I'm not certain, but I belive the term flip/flop comees from the pearly shine that these colors have (i.e. it flip/flops between two different shades).

3) Yes, 297 Warm Gold is a certain miss. And I miss the 298 Cool Silver Drum (which is the matt/dull silver metallic used on so many parts). But I also miss the Chrome silver and Chrome gold colors (BrickLink names). Even if the don't render correctly in LDD, it would still be nice to have them to select. On a side note, I'm still bewildered over the difference between 296 Cool Silver and 298 Cool Silver Drum Laquerd. Is it just the painting method used by TLG that differs - I mean, what is Drum laquered?

PS: On another note, I think I've managed to decipher 109 PC Black IR. This should be the very dark transparent color that goes on the IR-eye of the Mindstorms remote (PC = Polycarbonate). Sounds right? If so, it shouldn't be in the Solid section, but rather transparent.

[Zerobricks]

The collisions (or the lack of them) on wheel 88517 allow this kind of brick incest:

Edited December 15, 2010 by Zblj

[pacc]

You cannot rotate a 1-wide brick or plate placed with the halfstud pin on a hollow hole.

I.e LDD lets me do this using a window frame but not with a brick.

(but deleting the window frame lets me place a brick on the rotated guide which fits on the hollow stud)

[Superkalle]

You cannot rotate a 1-wide brick or plate placed with the halfstud pin on a hollow hole.

Excellent point pacc. I'm surprised this have never come up before, since it's such a basic technique

This naturally leads to the question: has this technqiue (rotating on hollow stud) ever been used in an official set?

[pacc]

Maybe not, but brickset had this set on the frontpage:

Ole Kirk's house

I also found a review of the build!

On top they use the interstud hole in a wing plate (I'll use that somewhere)

The whole base of the building is offset 0.5 studs in both directions so they

don't need to use the 2x2 offset plate and just need a plate rotated on a single stud.

Edited December 16, 2010 by pacc

[Zerobricks]

You can rotate brick without stud on that base, and use it to trick LDD.

[pacc]

You can rotate brick without stud on that base, and use it to trick LDD.

You can do that excercise - put the windows on bricks then put the 2x1 stepper bricks on top

and bridge the 5 stud gap by putting a 1x6 plate centered using it's intermediate pins...

It's the same bug over again, but becomes much harder when you have two rotated bases on one stiff brick.

[NeuroMimetis]

Hi guys,

it does not seem that this one has been reported already :

On this new part, the axle hole is not deep enough and will not allow the axle pin to fit entirely (see the small gap).

I hope that this will be fixed asap because I have been expecting this part for a while.

Neuro

[Superkalle]

Hi guys,

it does not seem that this one has been reported already :

At least I haven't heard of it before. Good find.

PS: Next time, please just jolt down the Bricknumber too (87408), so it's easier to find in LDD.

[JimBee]

Sorry if this has been answered/ reported before, but I'm having trouble accessing the plates/ tiles brick menu. When I open it and scroll down, LDD automatically closes, without any warnings or messages. I can reopen the program and the same thing will happen. Rebooting doesn't help either. Any solutions to this?

[Superkalle]

Sorry if this has been answered/ reported before, but I'm having trouble accessing the plates/ tiles brick menu. When I open it and scroll down, LDD automatically closes, without any warnings or messages. I can reopen the program and the same thing will happen. Rebooting doesn't help either. Any solutions to this?

Check out this topic

Let us know if it worked

[Lyichir]

Alright, I just joined, and I have a BUNCH of recorded errors. I'll try to get through them all in this post:

-Part 4523 lacks its bottom attachment point.

-There are boundary errors on parts 41678, 32310, 4588, 57029, 50747, 30238, and 50967.

-Part 4185 has a major boundary error: Technic connector pegs cannot be inserted right up against it.

-Corrugated pipes (for example, part 71986) do not accept Technic connector pegs.

-Part 4150 cannot be centered on a row of studs.

-Part 33121 cannot be centered between studs.

-Parts 30103, 30091, and 32138 lack a connection point for 3.2mm bar.

-Connection point for 3.2mm bar does not go deep enough on Part 4289.

-Part 3063 cannot be rotationally offset from itself.

-Rubber bands/treads do not work: Parts 85546, 53992 etc.

-Part 6119 cannot rotate properly on Part 30124.

-Technic pinhole on Parts 53457, 2695, 44359, 75535, 32126 will not accept system attachment.

-Parts 32199, 61356, 30191, 71923, 71986, 57274, 63142, 6211 cannot flex.

-Part 45590 cannot flex or stretch.

-Part 30396 cannot accept towball attachment.

-Parts 54654, 57028, 43750, 40395 cannot be painted multiple colors.

-Part 44358 will not accept Part 44359.

-Part 30644 will not accept stud connections on lower surface of rotors.

-All plates have a boundary error: Technic cross axle cannot recess slightly into tubes on lower surface.

-Parts 55296, 55297 cannot be attached to open studs.

-Part 44572 has bad render.

-Part 4095 does not sink into Part 6143 properly.

-Part 47905 does not connect to Technic.

-Part 58176 cannot connect to Part 6269.

-Part 6587, when connected to Technic by the stud, does not properly sink into the Technic pinhole.

-Hinge error in part 44567: When attached to 1x_ bricks with click hinges (parts 30387, 30388, etc.), cannot be hinged more than -46.85 degrees.

-Standard clips cannot attach to part 2496.

-Boundary error on part 32476: Peghole does not allow cross-axles all the way through; pegs cannot be rotated fully.

-On Minifigs, headgear 60747 does not fit over beard 60750.

-Boundary error on part 47905: 3.2mm bar cannot sink into underside of piece.

-Multiple Minifig neck accessories cannot be attached at the same time; some leave too much space between accessory and head (for example cape 50231).

-Boundary error on part 48002: Cross-axles should be able to sink into the base 1/5 module further.

-Connection error on part 2714: 3.2mm bars cannot be attached to the peg end.

-Boundary error on part 6536: Gear teeth, such as those on part 3647, cannot recess into end with cross-axle hole.

-System studs cannot attach to Technic peghole in part 56902.

-Stud cavities (such as those of parts 3062, 6251, etc.) cannot attach to top of part 3471.

-Teeth of gear 32269 do not mesh with those of gear 6589.

-Parts such as 40379 do not fit properly in the side cavities of 59226.

-Part 32187 has a connection error: Technic connection pegs can only be inserted from the rear by ½ module.

-ANNOYANCE: When a new 2x2 turntable (part 74340) is created, either by selecting it in the brick palette or by cloning an existing part, the piece is dragged by the upper section. This causes the piece to want to connect only to the underside of other parts, while most builders tend to build from the bottom up, meaning the part is more likely to be attached on top of other parts.

-Part error on part 30115: Clips (such as on part 30237) should be able to connect to snake at more points.

-Minor render error: Part 32198 lacks notches on two sides of the cross-axle hole.

-3.2mm bar cannot be inserted into the peg on part 43122.

-3.2mm bar cannot be inserted far enough into part 63208; robot arm on said piece cannot rotate.

If you have any further questions about any of these errors, by all means ask away.

[Superkalle]

Alright, I just joined, and I have a BUNCH of recorded errors. I'll try to get through them all in this post:

If you have any further questions about any of these errors, by all means ask away.

I suspect you are the brother of Aanchir? We've heard about you. Glad you could join us.

Wow, that was a long list. Since I love brick bugs (don't know why), I'll have a look at the list and get back to you with feedback shortly.

[Zerobricks]

Dont know if its really a bug, but axle 5,5 is a bit too long when instering in two bricks with crossholes.

[Superkalle]

OK, done looking at the list. Lots of gems here. My comments and questions below (I've taken the liberty of numbering the issues)

1 -Part 4523 lacks its bottom attachment point.

Do you mean that the bottom of the bag should attach on a stud? Please verify that this is so - I don't have this part so I can't test.

EDIT: Allready confirmed by Prateek.

2 -There are boundary errors on parts 41678, 32310, 4588, 57029, 50747, 30238, and 50967.

If you could supply image examples of these ones it would be great.

3 -Part 4185 has a major boundary error: Technic connector pegs cannot be inserted right up against it.

Yepp, Known bug, but a great find nevertheless

4 -Corrugated pipes (for example, part 71986) do not accept Technic connector pegs.

Great find. Can't remember having heard that bug reported before

5 -Part 4150 cannot be centered on a row of studs.

It is tricky to position it, but it should work. Try again, otherwise, please explain more in detail what the error is.

6 -Part 33121 cannot be centered between studs.

Good find

7 -Parts 30103, 30091, and 32138 lack a connection point for 3.2mm bar.

Good find

8 -Connection point for 3.2mm bar does not go deep enough on Part 4289.

Known bug (I think reported by your brother)

9 -Part 3063 cannot be rotationally offset from itself.

It can actually, but it's tricky. More info here http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43868

10 -Rubber bands/treads do not work: Parts 85546, 53992 etc.

Yepp, none of them work.

11 -Part 6119 cannot rotate properly on Part 30124.

Good find.

12 -Technic pinhole on Parts 53457, 2695, 44359, 75535, 32126 will not accept system attachment.

32126 and 53457 will not connect because it's most likely modeled as a half beam, and none of those accept studs in LDD as of now (hopefully in the future). At least that's my guess. One reason for this is that there seems to be an issue about putting studs in from both ends in a half-beam (which is not possible with physcial bricks since they would collide).

75535 I heard was fixed in the next release (some good news I suppose)

2695 was good find - never heard of that bug before!

13 -Parts 32199, 61356, 30191, 71923, 71986, 57274, 63142, 6211 cannot flex.

Yepp, we all want more flex in LDD

14 -Part 45590 cannot flex or stretch.

Same as above

15-Part 30396 cannot accept towball attachment.

Reported just a few days ago actually

16 -Parts 54654, 57028, 43750, 40395 cannot be painted multiple colors.

The first two I heard about, but not the last two. (speaking of: shouldn't the last two connect? I can't seem to get it to work).

17-Part 44358 will not accept Part 44359.

Yes, that's a known bummer.

18 -Part 30644 will not accept stud connections on lower surface of rotors.

Not sure I understand this. Is is the grooves running along the underside you mean?

Another thing I spotted is that the center hole will not accept a stud top-down.

19 -All plates have a boundary error: Technic cross axle cannot recess slightly into tubes on lower surface.

Good point.

20 -Parts 55296, 55297 cannot be attached to open studs.

They will attach to a 3062 for example, but do you mean the won't attach to a hollow stud? If so, are they supposed to? The ends of the 3.2 mm bar pieces are slanted.

21-Part 44572 has bad render.

Where? Can you please show.

22 -Part 4095 does not sink into Part 6143 properly.

Aha, you mean from the underside, right?

23-Part 47905 does not connect to Technic.

Yes, there a quite a few of that kind that doesn't - 87087, 4733 etc

24-Part 58176 cannot connect to Part 6269.

Have you verified with physcial bricks that it should?

25-Part 6587, when connected to Technic by the stud, does not properly sink into the Technic pinhole.

Ah, yes, that's a known one, and very annoying one.

26-Hinge error in part 44567: When attached to 1x_ bricks with click hinges (parts 30387, 30388, etc.), cannot be hinged more than -46.85 degrees.

Yepp, a known one. There's an even nastier bug buried here too. Try putting a 44302 at 90 degrees flipped up, but inverted (so studs outwards). Then save. Now open file and *puff* 44302 is gone

27-Standard clips cannot attach to part 2496.

Excellent find. Well spotted

28-Boundary error on part 32476: Peghole does not allow cross-axles all the way through; pegs cannot be rotated fully.

I can see that pegs cannot be rotated, but I'm not sure I see the cross-axle bug.

29-On Minifigs, headgear 60747 does not fit over beard 60750.

In which order do you place the parts? Head first, or beard first. Will it make a difference?

30-Boundary error on part 47905: 3.2mm bar cannot sink into underside of piece.

It actually can't sink into any Brick or plate anti-stud. I think there is a system wide boundary error on bricks, and that the LDD team have to do some more general redesign to get this to work.

31-Multiple Minifig neck accessories cannot be attached at the same time; some leave too much space between accessory and head (for example cape 50231).

Yeah, it seems to have to do with how the Head vs. accessories is modelled in LDD and the cape takes up a "full height" even though in reality is paper thin.

32-Boundary error on part 48002: Cross-axles should be able to sink into the base 1/5 module further.

Are you sure? If I make the mast transparent, it looks like the x-axle is going all the way in flush. Or do you mean it should sink in even further?

33-Connection error on part 2714: 3.2mm bars cannot be attached to the peg end.

Yepp, known one

34-Boundary error on part 6536: Gear teeth, such as those on part 3647, cannot recess into end with cross-axle hole.

Reported by Zbjl some time ago. But good find.

35-System studs cannot attach to Technic peghole in part 56902.

Good find. Out of curiosity, are there any cases or sets when this technique would be needed?

36-Stud cavities (such as those of parts 3062, 6251, etc.) cannot attach to top of part 3471.

Wow, didn't even knew you are supposed to connect to the top of the tree like that. Is it a defined stud?

37-Teeth of gear 32269 do not mesh with those of gear 6589.

Reported earlier by Bojan. Fixed in next version

38-Parts such as 40379 do not fit properly in the side cavities of 59226.

Another good find

39-Part 32187 has a connection error: Technic connection pegs can only be inserted from the rear by ½ module.

Not sure I understand. However I do see that a technic peg with cross axle (6562) cannot be inserted fully from underside. Is that what you mean?

40 -ANNOYANCE: When a new 2x2 turntable (part 74340) is created, either by selecting it in the brick palette or by cloning an existing part, the piece is dragged by the upper section. This causes the piece to want to connect only to the underside of other parts, while most builders tend to build from the bottom up, meaning the part is more likely to be attached on top of other parts.

Yeah, I find that annoying too. But you explained the issue in a very good way

41-Part error on part 30115: Clips (such as on part 30237) should be able to connect to snake at more points.

How do you mean. Which points more then exist today should it connect to?

42-Minor render error: Part 32198 lacks notches on two sides of the cross-axle hole.

Sorry, can't see it

43-3.2mm bar cannot be inserted into the peg on part 43122.

Good find

44-3.2mm bar cannot be inserted far enough into part 63208; robot arm on said piece cannot rotate.

Well spotted. Reported earlier by your brother, but I guess you found it