Hero Factory 2011

[The Crazy One]

Tad early isn't it? For example, you say you like Furno's helmet, but from what I can see, which is barely anyting, it looks like a triangle with eyes.

[---Vertea---]

Ooh! I can see Raw Jaws head! It's... a saber-toothed tiger.... Well I suppose it's not all bad- I just wish it were reptilian

[Ceroknight]

It would be cool if hero factory and bionicle met in one of these planets

Hope that green piece will be gone

[Kenta]

Tad early isn't it? For example, you say you like Furno's helmet, but from what I can see, which is barely anyting, it looks like a triangle with eyes.

Yes i know but if you examine closely it looks like an eagle and Ive been waiting so LONG for an eagle helmet.

[Drathalieo]

Looking at that new pic... I don't really think Rocka's helmet is all that bad. We will see.

[VBBN]

Ooh! I can see Raw Jaws head! It's... a saber-toothed tiger.... Well I suppose it's not all bad- I just wish it were reptilian

He's a mammoth. Hence the name "mamut" as we discussed earlier haha

And kenta those are very early acquisations to the figures, but do refrain from using such large amounts of smilies.

Still cant figure out Rocka's head.

[Jouster]

I think Rocka's head is supposed to represent a snake. If you look at it from the front and from the side, it does look a bit like a snake, doesn't it?

[The Crazy One]

I think that Rockas helmet looks like an Alien queen or something.

[Zarkan]

Ever since the first info about Hero Factory 2011’s theme surfaced, something has been bothering me about the entire setup, but until just tonight, I wasn’t able to put my finger on it. Now, I think I’ve realized what my real problem is with this second wave, as well as the just-recently-revealed third. What it all boils down to is that – and I think I can actually say this objectively for once – there is simply not as much effort being put into Hero Factory as a whole.

Now, I realize there has and always will be a huge debate regarding how well it’s predecessor maintained its quality (if at all). However, no matter what you think about Bionicle’s storyline, it’s impossible to deny that from 2001 on, there was a rather concentrated effort in making it surpass other Lego lines in storytelling and presentation. In regards to the former, there was a real sense of progression thanks to the extended story bible created in the planning stage. Just look at the first three years for example, if you can’t stand anything beyond that. 2001 was the introductory year, which pit the heroes against simple beasts before winning their first major victory against the big bad. Then 2002 rolled around, and the stakes were raised, with foes that possessed actual powers of their own and a pair of arch-villains instead of just one. Next came 2003, which (disregarding the rather unnecessary Kal storyline) saw the introduction of even more powerful villains and resulted in an ultimate showdown with the original big bad. Add in a host of minor characters and developing relationships between the heroes, and by and large you had an overall effort that greatly exceeded anything TLC had done before.

Now, look at Hero Factory in contrast. In the beginning, it seemed like the line was going to go a similar route as Bionicle, with an introductory year that lead into more intense (if not more complex) storylines and raising stakes. That’s the impression I got from the line, anyway – since Hero Factory was supposed to be a replacement for Bionicle, I reasoned that it would try to keep much of what make the latter line such a success. Perhaps I was wrong, because it now seems like TLC has gone in the opposite direction – AKA, the direction they generally go in with their modern themes. Instead of Hero Factory being an entire brand like Bionicle was, it’s simply yet another construction line by TLC with a “storyline” that can be best summed up as an excuse plot. There’s no real progression through waves – each set line uses the exact same basic concept as the previous, with only the set designs actually changing. There’s your setting/mission, there’s your six heroes, and there’s your villains. Bang, the storyline planning is done for the year, and it likely will never progress beyond that. This formula is identical to what TLC uses for practically every one of their lines that lasts beyond one year: Castle, Space Police, and Power Miners all were exactly the same way, and so are most of the others I haven’t listed.

Perhaps this is why some suspect that Hero Factory won’t last beyond two or three years. A line like this simply can’t last long without it getting exceedingly stale, and as soon as the sales drop, TLC will just replace it with some other constraction figure line. It wasn’t like this with Bionicle: when the sales got bad in certain years, TLC didn’t just throw it all away – instead they tried to salvage the line with new set designs and marketing concepts. There was a real sense that they had invested a lot of heart and soul into the line, and they weren’t just about to abandon it when there was still untapped potential. As much as I’d like to think Hero Factory will get more interesting in, say, 2012, I kind of doubt TLC feels any more loyalty to it than any of their other modern lego lines. And since only City and Star Wars have lasted beyond three years without complete re-brandings, I can’t say it will even last long enough to do so.

Does anyone else agree with this sentiment?

[Brickthing]

Does anyone else agree with this sentiment?

Yes and no. The main point that I think you are missing is that the Hero Factory story is intended to be episodic, and nowhere near as complex as BIONICLE. Complex multi-year stories can be hard to jump into for new fans, which is one of the reasons BIONICLE ended, and Hero Factory doesn't seem to be shaping up to be as intricate as BIONICLE. Plus, I think it's hard to judge how the Hero Factory story will develop in quality when we've only had storyline for 1 out of 3 waves of sets that we've seen.

Because of the episodic storyline, I personally hope that each new wave doesn't raise the stakes, and changes the stakes each time instead. Although it's nice, there doesn't always have to be an overarching progression and build up of tension to tell good sub-plots - look at the development in The Simpsons.

Although it doesn't have an intricate storyline, I'm fairly sure that Hero Factory will last more than 3 years. From 2.0, each wave seems to be based around a certain theme (similar the later years of BIONICLE), and there at least 3 years worth of interesting themes to choose from. BIONICLE clearly had a lot of care invested into it from the story bibles and characters, but so does Hero Factory, only in the form of the sets and their pieces. LEGO action figures have been completely redesigned into their own system of building over the course of two Hero Factory waves, unlike BIONICLE sets which often still remained TECHNIC sets at their roots. A massive amount of effort has been put into redesigning the way LEGO action figures are built, and I don't think that's something LEGO will quickly discard if sales drop slightly, just like they didn't discard BIONICLE (at first) when it was having trouble.

[Aethersprite]

On Zarkan's and Brickthing's post. While I agree with Zarkan, my friend and I had a similar discussion about this, and we came to this conclusion.

Sure, Bionicle's storyline was definitely more complex and more interesting than any other theme Lego has ever done. However, this would only cater to existing fans. New fans would find it a pain to dig through Bionicle's 'history', and this would turn off a lot of kids. Kids definitely prefer simpler storylines that they can understand. As Bionicle progressed, it became more and more complicated, and thus harder for kids to turn up. My friend and I assumed Bionicle was cut short simply due to its complex storyline. We decided that 2009's Bara Magna was an attempt at simplifying Bionicle's storyline, with a fresh new start, new characters, new planet, but it ended up doing just the opposite.

While Hero Factory may be too simple and boring for us Bionicle fans, kids would find it more appealing. Heroes fighting bad guys to save the day. Bionicle? Weird names and such, kids don't know what's going on.

In my opinion, Lego had this new HF 2011 building system planned for a pretty long time. I guess they decided HF's first wave would be like a 'honeymoon year' for Bionicle fans, kids and old fans alike - different theme, but similar building style, so people can relate the two. Once people got wind of the new theme, only then they introduce this new building style. I guess Lego wanted Bionicle fans to move on to HF.

Just my two cents.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Lockon Stratos

[The Crazy One]

I get what you are saying, and I feel that TLC are hoping for Hero Factory to feed of the success of BIONICLE, but to be honest, the sets are what makes Hero Factory good. The less complex story really doesn't bother me. I almost prefer the fact that Hero Factory isn't bound to a complex story line. It just opens up the possibilities so much. Unlike BIONICLE, you can travel virtually anywhere, have any bad guys, any good guys. Lets face it, BIONICLE without Mata Nui and the Makuta isn't BIONICLE, which heavily restricts the flexibility of the story.

I also feel Hero Factory really makes me make an effort to create a world for them. (I am quite a big dreamer) which I love. I felt BIONICLE rather splelt out what we had to know. Hero Factory just gives me more controll of how I play, animate, and create worlds for them. Comic making is just so much more fun now.

Edited December 31, 2010 by The crazy one

[VBBN]

Now, I realize there has and always will be a huge debate regarding how well it’s predecessor maintained its quality (if at all). However, no matter what you think about Bionicle’s storyline, it’s impossible to deny that from 2001 on, there was a rather concentrated effort in making it surpass other Lego lines in storytelling and presentation. In regards to the former, there was a real sense of progression thanks to the extended story bible created in the planning stage. Just look at the first three years for example, if you can’t stand anything beyond that. 2001 was the introductory year, which pit the heroes against simple beasts before winning their first major victory against the big bad. Then 2002 rolled around, and the stakes were raised, with foes that possessed actual powers of their own and a pair of arch-villains instead of just one. Next came 2003, which (disregarding the rather unnecessary Kal storyline) saw the introduction of even more powerful villains and resulted in an ultimate showdown with the original big bad. Add in a host of minor characters and developing relationships between the heroes, and by and large you had an overall effort that greatly exceeded anything TLC had done before.

Your first part is true. Bionicle was an imensly strong theme in terms of it's story. In fact, On the Metru Nui bonus features in the staff interviews, one mentioned the fact that the reason Bionicle started, is because they wanted to us he Slizer style of building with a strong story. The whole purpose of Bionicle was built to be a grand story. Now with that said, Lego stuck to what they wanted to do. They kept a solid story, with, not major plotholes. They kept it very good and even brought in all those canons to help tie up the loose ends. Sure, the sets dropped in quality. The plastic got bad, the sets got lackluster, and the final sets, the stars, were pretty underwhelming. But, the story ended well. And that, is what I think matters most, as personally I lost interest in the sets after 2007.

Now, look at Hero Factory in contrast. In the beginning, it seemed like the line was going to go a similar route as Bionicle, with an introductory year that lead into more intense (if not more complex) storylines and raising stakes. That’s the impression I got from the line, anyway – since Hero Factory was supposed to be a replacement for Bionicle, I reasoned that it would try to keep much of what make the latter line such a success. Perhaps I was wrong, because it now seems like TLC has gone in the opposite direction – AKA, the direction they generally go in with their modern themes. Instead of Hero Factory being an entire brand like Bionicle was, it’s simply yet another construction line by TLC with a “storyline” that can be best summed up as an excuse plot. There’s no real progression through waves – each set line uses the exact same basic concept as the previous, with only the set designs actually changing. There’s your setting/mission, there’s your six heroes, and there’s your villains. Bang, the storyline planning is done for the year, and it likely will never progress beyond that. This formula is identical to what TLC uses for practically every one of their lines that lasts beyond one year: Castle, Space Police, and Power Miners all were exactly the same way, and so are most of the others I haven’t listed.

You are lead to the wrong impression. heo factory is not a replacement line for Bionicles story, its a replacemnt for the figures. If you felt that way, then what is Ben 10? What is galidor? They just use a similar building style, Hero factory takes it a step frther and replaces the building style completely. A theme can only go on so long. And Hero factory is NOT meant tohave a solid story. It is meant to function like a 60s batman story. Its different in every show. And Lego did that, because they want to make it easy for kids to jump into the storyline. If I were a kid trying to get into Bionicle's story anytime past 2005, I'd be lost. And lego decided that wasnt going to work. The toys arent really set towards the older audience anymore. Face it people. The technic builds of the vehicles were just a nice little side feature of Bionicle. Things are simpler in this new line. This line, is very different from bionicle.

Perhaps this is why some suspect that Hero Factory won’t last beyond two or three years. A line like this simply can’t last long without it getting exceedingly stale, and as soon as the sales drop, TLC will just replace it with some other constraction figure line. It wasn’t like this with Bionicle: when the sales got bad in certain years, TLC didn’t just throw it all away – instead they tried to salvage the line with new set designs and marketing concepts. There was a real sense that they had invested a lot of heart and soul into the line, and they weren’t just about to abandon it when there was still untapped potential. As much as I’d like to think Hero Factory will get more interesting in, say, 2012, I kind of doubt TLC feels any more loyalty to it than any of their other modern lego lines. And since only City and Star Wars have lasted beyond three years without complete re-brandings, I can’t say it will even last long enough to do so.

And this we simply will not know until the time comes. But, I like the change in theme. Bionicle was getting boring for me. Too much going on, too many similar builds, concepts, etc. Theres only so much you can do with a line. And If Hero factory gets stale, well, so be i. Bring us something new. I got tired of Toa, and I sure as hell will get tired of Heros.

Now with that said, I do want to mention the fact that, Bionicle was a very influential theme. And because of that, Action figure themes will always revolve around the type of things we were exposed to in Slizers and Bionicle. Heck, even Ninjago has 6 "elements" for the ninjas like Bionicle did.

[vexorian]

Perhaps this is why some suspect that Hero Factory won’t last beyond two or three years. A line like this simply can’t last long without it getting exceedingly stale, and as soon as the sales drop, TLC will just replace it with some other constraction figure line.

Yes, I doubt it would survive wave 3, and then it will be replaced by another theme. And it seems pretty intentional. Brands get old. I think that Bionicle lasted way too long and overall TLG became a victim of Bionicle's own success with fans going irrational and expecting it to last forever... HF won't last many waves, and It will not be because of low sales but because they are planning it not to last 10 years.

It wasn’t like this with Bionicle: when the sales got bad in certain years, TLC didn’t just throw it all away – instead they tried to salvage the line with new set designs and marketing concepts.

And I wonder, is that a good thing? This forces the themes to be actually good or die. Overall, LEGO is supposed to be selling toys not stories. The toys must be good, the construction system innovative, the sets interesting and the point should be creativity. HF does not have a 10 years long story, but it will allow kids to design their own heroes at a cost, and it will be very profitable for TLG. At the end, most of the people buying Bionicle didn't do it for the story. We had a bunch of people in the Internet that stated themselves to be big fans of Bionicle, but they just cared about the story, but the thing is that they weren't buying the sets, and that's not financially good for LEGO.

[CabooseBM]

I get what you are saying, and I feel that TLC are hoping for Hero Factory to feed of the success of BIONICLE, but to be honest, the sets are what makes Hero Factory good. The less complex story really doesn't bother me. I almost prefer the fact that Hero Factory isn't bound to a complex story line. It just opens up the possibilities so much. Unlike BIONICLE, you can travel virtually anywhere, have any bad guys, any good guys. Lets face it, BIONICLE without Mata Nui and the Makuta isn't BIONICLE, which heavily restricts the flexibility of the story.

I also feel Hero Factory really makes me make an effort to create a world for them. (I am quite a big dreamer) which I love. I felt BIONICLE rather splelt out what we had to know. Hero Factory just gives me more controll of how I play, animate, and create worlds for them. Comic making is just so much more fun now.

This! Hero Factory has been pretty fantastic with world building. It's created a universe that's fun to play in, not restricting important events to a certain group of characters, but allowing fans to have their own fun with the idea.

[Aethersprite]

While HF may not last as long as Bionicle did, I certainly think it will last for more than 3 waves. The line has a lot of potential, with the new building system and all.

[Drathalieo]

While HF may not last as long as Bionicle did, I certainly think it will last for more than 3 waves. The line has a lot of potential, with the new building system and all.

It'll probably last into 2012, at the very least.

[CabooseBM]

It'll probably last into 2012, at the very least.

I hope the Summer wave in 2012 is set on an planet doomed to apocalypse. =P

[Jouster]

I think you guys might want to see thisc : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbvsVgJPK48

[The Crazy One]

The people who say Hero Factory is a about end are the people wishing for BIONICLE to come back. It isn't coming back guys, its made it's stand and the story has been wrapped up for the main commercial audience. This is Hero Factory, and I think we will be seeing a lot more of it now because of the new building style.

[VBBN]

I think you guys might want to see thisc : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbvsVgJPK48

Kinda makes me think of the Barraki game from 07..

Hilarious proportions on the figure though

[Zarkan]

Guys, I think a lot of you missed what I was saying about Hero Factory's "storyline." I said right in my post that I didn't necessarily expect it to be complex - there's a huge difference between "complexity" and "progression," and the former isn't a necessary component of the latter.

To give an example of what I'm talking about, look at one of the two good Transformers shows we've actually had, Transformers Animated. Overall, the storylines were simple enough that any young kid could understand and enjoy them, but they also had good enough characterization and plots that adult fans of Transformers were able to appreciate the show as well. The important thing was not that it was complex, but that the show raised the stakes as it got higher. There was a real sense of progression between the begining and the end of the show, and that was what (among other things) kept it from becoming stale by the second season.

That's the point I'm trying to get across: the problem I have with Hero Factory is not that it doesn't have a complex storyline, but that it barely even has a storyline at all. The heroes and villians are all incredibly one note and in many cases are practically cyphers. The plots are all exactly the same: heroes go to planet and stop villians from stealing/destorying/taking over something, wave done (and this is not a generalization). And this is really disapointing to me, because Hero Factory has the potential to have a really great storyline without being complex.

[VBBN]

To give an example of what I'm talking about, look at one of the two good Transformers shows we've actually had, Transformers Animated. Overall, the storylines were simple enough that any young kid could understand and enjoy them, but they also had good enough characterization and plots that adult fans of Transformers were able to appreciate the show as well. The important thing was not that it was complex, but that the show raised the stakes as it got higher. There was a real sense of progression between the begining and the end of the show, and that was what (among other things) kept it from becoming stale by the second season.

Now lets just think about what we are comparing here. First, you say, "one of the two good transformers Shows weve actually had" It just raises a flag that your opinion may sway towards it. Yes, I liked Animated, but I also really enjoyed g1, energon, and Prime(so far) Now yes, It had enough things to keep older audiences interested. Especially the insane amount of homages to essentially every series of transformers there were. But transformers was within itself, a series. Meaning, sure it wasnt complex, but the series had a beginning and an end. Therefore, stakes got higher. With Hero factory, its not complex either. but each wave of sets we get is a series. Meaning, Each round, we get a new story, albeit short. To fill in for story, though it's not as complex as Bionicle, you still get into it via comics and the television show.

That's the point I'm trying to get across: the problem I have with Hero Factory is not that it doesn't have a complex storyline, but that it barely even has a storyline at all. The heroes and villians are all incredibly one note and in many cases are practically cyphers. The plots are all exactly the same: heroes go to planet and stop villians from stealing/destorying/taking over something, wave done (and this is not a generalization). And this is really disapointing to me, because Hero Factory has the potential to have a really great storyline without being complex.

And this is where my disagreements stop. What you say here is absolutely true, and i do agree with this statement.

[vexorian]

The people who say Hero Factory is a about end are the people wishing for BIONICLE to come back. It isn't coming back guys, its made it's stand and the story has been wrapped up for the main commercial audience. This is Hero Factory, and I think we will be seeing a lot more of it now because of the new building style.

I don't want Bionicle to come back, I think it was about time it died.

I think HF won't last more than 3 or 4 waves because a theme shouldn't last that long, it would be replaced by a new action figure theme. (which would probably keep HF's build system)

Edited December 31, 2010 by vexorian

[VBBN]

I don't want Bionicle to come back, I think it was about time it died.

I think HF won't last more than 3 or 4 waves because a theme shouldn't last that long, it would be replaced by a new action figure theme.

Agreed. Things tha last too long become stale, good storyline or not. And I mean, the concept gets boring.

--{VBBN}--