Hero Factory 2011

[CabooseBM]

Not so with 2011, where the villians look like Transformers rejects and the heroes all wear ugly goggles and carry Rescue Hero-esque tools. It's not that I don't aprove of them trying to differentiate Hero Factory from Bionicle - what I do disaprove of the method by which they've accomplished this. Would it really have killed them to slap a few pin-holes onto the new molds and to put more effort into making the designs look stylish? Right now, what they've got is (as I've said before) one step away from Neo-Shifters, and it saddens me that they would slap the official lego logo on such rubbish.

Your comparisons are ridiculous and hyperbolic.

"Look like Transformers rejects"? You are aware of the numerous drastically different aesthetics that transformers have, right? They wouldn't fit in with any major aesthetic I could think of.

"All wear ugly goggles"? Not a comparison, I'll grant, but the only one wearing goggles is Furno, everyone else has something very not-goggle-like.

"Rescue Hero-esque tools"? ...You've never seen a Rescue Hero toy, have you? Huge over-exaggerated weapons are not what these heroes are wielding.

"One step away from Neo-Shifters"? ...Again, you've never seen a Neo Shifter, have you? The only resemblance between the two is maybe how the armor is layered. (Bright color over dark color, and that's hardly unique.)

[Mesonak]

To add onto your piece-by-piece demolition of Zarkan's problems with 2011 (which gets a ), all of our assertions (both good and bad) are based on prototype pictures; When the original pictures of the 2010 sets came out, I thought Rotor looked like a Throwbot.

Not to mention their coloring and texture was messed up (especially Thunder's.)

Many aspects will improve.

If Lego could hurry up and get better pictures and/or actual sets released, this needless rage could cease.

-Mesonak

Edited October 27, 2010 by Mesonak

[Aanchir]

I doubt it, considering that in the process of reducing the amount of detail, TLC has also engineered these new parts with far less connection points than most pieces in the Bionicle line. This was actually a problem that originated with 2010's Hero Factory sets, but it was only really present in the Heroes, and only to a certain extent. In contrast, both the good guys and bad guys of 2011 are absolutely bursting to the brim with smooth, technic-hole-less parts, which does not bode well for those who were hoping Hero Factory would feature as many useful molds as Bionicle. I'm sure people will find uses for them, but I doubt they'll find their way into as many MOCs as parts like the Toa Mata tools or the Skrall/Vorox armor.

Really, it's obvious to me that TLC has gone for style over function in this new breed of constraction figures - which makes it all the more troubling that these sets also mostly fail asthetically, IMO. While I was appalled by certain aspects of the 2010 Heroes (okay, mainly just the gun-arm POOPS), I have come to admit that they are rather flashy. I also was fine with the majority of the villians and the vehicles, which while not being exactly original were well-designed and had some appealing new molds. Not so with 2011, where the villians look like Transformers rejects and the heroes all wear ugly goggles and carry Rescue Hero-esque tools. It's not that I don't aprove of them trying to differentiate Hero Factory from Bionicle - what I do disaprove of the method by which they've accomplished this. Would it really have killed them to slap a few pin-holes onto the new molds and to put more effort into making the designs look stylish? Right now, what they've got is (as I've said before) one step away from Neo-Shifters, and it saddens me that they would slap the official lego logo on such rubbish.

Most of the armor pieces have three connection points: one ball joint connection (which connects the armor to the limbs) and two bar/minifig tool connections. Perhaps not the most versatile, but when you compare them to many other parts designed as limb armor-- for instance, the 2002 Toa Nuva legs, the Inika thigh armor, and the Metru ankle armor-- they fare pretty well. And since aesthetically they're a lot more "LEGO-ish" than the Metru thigh armor (which is without question the most egregious example of those which I just listed), I'm sure AFOLs with a taste for innovation will find clever ways to use these armor pieces rather than just as the BIONICLE equivalent of greebling.

About five of these armor pieces from the Heroes appear among the new parts (there are actually 24 new parts in total-- I failed to revise my count when Bfahome and I were analyzing which parts were in which heroes and I learned that there was not, in fact, a new basic socket joint). Other than that we see 16 parts that would probably have been stylized to some extent anyway (heads, Hero Cores, chest armor, hands, feet, helmets, weapons, visors, eyepieces, and faceshields). Incidentally, the weapon pieces do have a number of connection points for their size. And while not minimalist in design (they still have a few clear purposes, such as serrated cutting edges) they are much more versatile-- the six heroes use only four weapon pieces in varying configurations, along with minifig spears and lightsaber blades. The same applies for other "stylized" pieces like the feet and hands, which would appear to maintain the same number of connection points as their forerunners (although the feet, being one piece with the y-joint, may be less versatile in terms of shape).

The four pieces left over after that count include the three new limb pieces for the heroes, as well as the ambiguous torso base piece. The limbs themselves are even more versatile than the armor, or so it would seem to me. Stylistically, there's not a single detail marking them as Hero Factory-- rather, they stick strictly to a function-based design, using ball joints, socket joints, and (on the villains) pin holes to great effect. This minimalist design allows the parts to be incorporated easily into a System mech or any other function where this style of joint would be favored. The torso is harder to interpret, since it's so thoroughly covered by the torso armor and chest armor it's hard to tell how it looks besides that there's some sort of connection point for the torso armor and several connection points for the limbs.

Overall, the number of connection points for traditional BIONICLE builds is greatly reduced, but the new building system maintains almost an identical level of intercompatibility, only it favors ball joint and bar connections over the traditional Technic connections of pins and axles. While I doubt that Hero Factory is likely to establish the same level of identity as LEGO's other brands like Technic, Duplo, and System (being a story theme that's nigh-on-impossible), it's again just following the trend that BIONICLE started in 2004 when designers decided that it no longer qualified as a Technic theme, be that for good or for ill.

Aesthetically, I'm a big fan of the heroes next year. The villains are a mixed bag-- I can't really say anything good about Fire Lord so far, but Jetbug's design is gorgeous. I'm not sure what you've got against the visual design of the sets next year-- calling the weapons "rescue-hero-esque" though, would explain why my opinion is different than yours, since while I was way too old to collect Rescue Heroes myself when they came out I appreciated the design principles of my younger brother's collection. The fact that every weapon is custom built strikes me as a welcome change-- while it does lead to unconventional shapes which I suppose inspired your comparison, the weapons themselves are varied in design and the parts that comprise them seem versatile as I mentioned above. As for the goggles, visors, faceshields, eyepieces, and what-have-you, I personally like many of the designs.

So I suppose it's really a matter of individual taste as far as aesthetics are concerned. Regarding versatility, I'll confess that all I can offer are predictions and analysis of connection points and aesthetics. The real versatility will be seeing if, once these sets come out, people are actually able to make creative use of the parts. Depending on whether any AFOLs are willing to invest in these, I'm sure at least some versatility will be exploited. In the very least, all of these parts are much more versatile and much closer to LEGO than any part from the Galidor line.

I'm glad to hear some criticisms from someone who has something more constructive to share than just a list of reasons it's unlike BIONICLE and therefore automatically bad. You make some decent observations about the absence of Technic holes and how that might hinder use by AFOLs (System doesn't integrate ball-joint connections very often at all, come to think of it, and only does so in very by-the-book instances where poseability is needed for mechs and giant animals). While I disagree with you in overall outlook for next year's sets (and I see Caboose takes issue with some of the comparisons you make), I'm glad to see at least that someone's put in some considerable thought from a neutral perspective before deciding to denounce next year's wave. My wall-of-text ranting muscles are out-of-practice now that BIONICLE's come to a close, and it'll be nice to have some competition!

[dviddy]

So wait.

The new hero sets get streamlined and smooth (yay!) and somehow this means they look like megablocks' messy, cluttered, pointy, chaotic Neo-Shifters?

It's like you guys haven't even seen Neo-Shifters.

[The Alchemyst]

Geez, I thought Von Nebula was terribly designed, but "FIRE LORD" takes the cake.

I'll be interested in the new head mold, it looks like the bottom of Stormer's original helmet was made into a head.

Heroes have fancy colors and pieces, and the villains will hopefully be cleaned up and have some decent armor pieces.

[Aanchir]

Geez, I thought Von Nebula was terribly designed, but "FIRE LORD" takes the cake.

I'll be interested in the new head mold, it looks like the bottom of Stormer's original helmet was made into a head.

Heroes have fancy colors and pieces, and the villains will hopefully be cleaned up and have some decent armor pieces.

As I've said before, I'm already liking Jetbug. He has a pretty consistent color scheme-- black, trans. neon orange, yellow, and dark silver-- and armor that seems (from what we've seen, anyway) to do an OK job covering his body. And of course the fact that his base torso armor is trans. neon orange is just pure awesomeness.

Note that many of the villain armor pieces are the same as the hero armor pieces. There are some that are unique to each, of course-- the heroes seem to have exclusive rights to that chest armor piece where their Hero Cores attach, while the villains instead have two separate armor pieces-- the really large on that appears on Jetbug's torso on top of his torso armor, and the smaller one that appears in various places on the other three.

I agree, though, that Fire Lord is pretty messy and chaotic compared to the smaller villains. It's the dark red on his upper legs that really baffles me the most-- why include that, when none of the other sets seem to use any dark red and it's not being used for any particular aesthetic reasons?

[Front]

It might be a bit hard to moc with 2011+ pieces, until it is recognised how to appreciate the new pieces. Then suddenly you can do stuff that was never possible with Bionicle/Technic.

All the Bionicle stuff through the years (including HF 2010) has a lot of specialised pieces. A lot of, in my opinion, too specialised torsos and limbs.

Welcome to the new world. You may like it or not. I love it. Get the parts/sets in your hand and let us know what you think.

Only a big month left.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Front

[_shaddow_]

It might be a bit hard to moc with 2011+ pieces, until it is recognised how to appreciate the new pieces. Then suddenly you can do stuff that was never possible with Bionicle/Technic.

All the Bionicle stuff through the years (including HF 2010) has a lot of specialised pieces. A lot of, in my opinion, too specialised torsos and limbs.

Welcome to the new world. You may like it or not. I love it. Get the parts/sets in your hand and let us know what you think.

Only a big month left.

What i really do want to know is if the parts on the heroes are printed or stickers, personnally. Oh and are these figures supposed to be availible in europe in January ? because you can see "march" in some language on the pictures.

[SpiderSpaceman]

It might be a bit hard to moc with 2011+ pieces, until it is recognised how to appreciate the new pieces. Then suddenly you can do stuff that was never possible with Bionicle/Technic.

All the Bionicle stuff through the years (including HF 2010) has a lot of specialised pieces. A lot of, in my opinion, too specialised torsos and limbs.

Welcome to the new world. You may like it or not. I love it. Get the parts/sets in your hand and let us know what you think.

Only a big month left.

Aaaaaamen brother

I am so stoked to use all these new parts, you wouldn't believe it.

this topic has kinda become a hotbed of opinions furiously presented as facts.

...Incidentally, the weapon pieces do have a number of connection points for their size. And while not minimalist in design (they still have a few clear purposes, such as serrated cutting edges) they are much more versatile-- the six heroes use only four weapon pieces in varying configurations...

The four pieces left over after that count include the three new limb pieces for the heroes, as well as the ambiguous torso base piece. The limbs themselves are even more versatile than the armor, or so it would seem to me. Stylistically, there's not a single detail marking them as Hero Factory-- rather, they stick strictly to a function-based design, using ball joints, socket joints, and (on the villains) pin holes to great effect. This minimalist design allows the parts to be incorporated easily into a System mech or any other function where this style of joint would be favored. The torso is harder to interpret, since it's so thoroughly covered by the torso armor and chest armor it's hard to tell how it looks besides that there's some sort of connection point for the torso armor and several connection points for the limbs.

well said all around.

[dviddy]

Yeah, I'm pretty stoked to use these pieces in MOCs too, especially since the style of pieces look like they'll mesh with system pieces aesthetically a lot better than Bionicle parts did. I've always preferred a smooth and streamlined appearance in my MOCs to messy and cluttered ones.

[CabooseBM]

With these new sets I can finally make a decent Caboose figure.

I just need a blue Furno helmet.

[The Crazy One]

I just need a blue Furno helmet.

Very wishful thinking. ;)

[CabooseBM]

Very wishful thinking. ;)

I knoooooooow! ;A;

[Aethersprite]

I'm a sucker for snipers (as you can see from my username) so Surge is a must-get for me. Jetbug is also pure lovely.

Not too sure about the other villains, though. As for the heroes, I'm getting Stormer as well, and maybe Nex or Evo.

I have to agree Furno's goggles look plain silly. The other 5 just look great with their accessories, but Furno looks like a total idiot.

[Extreme Sadness.]

I believe we've gotten confirmation that the new armor peices are connected via Balljoints.

If you're wondering what I mean, check the official HF topic on BZPower, page 110.

2011 peices have been found in LDD 4.

-ES

[Aethersprite]

I believe we've gotten confirmation that the new armor peices are connected via Balljoints.

If you're wondering what I mean, check the official HF topic on BZPower, page 110.

2011 peices have been found in LDD 4.

-ES

Mind linking it?

Anyway, taken from the Ninjago 2011 thread:

See the 2 armour pieces attached to this year's Hero limbs, in the middle, with the pink square? I believe those are HF 2011 armour pieces.

[Front]

See the 2 armour pieces attached to this year's Hero limbs, in the middle, with the pink square? I believe those are HF 2011 armour pieces.

Looks like the 4 and 5 module shells

[Brickthing]

Balljoints is an unexpected development for the armour pieces. Good find though!

I relooked over the images we've seen so far, and Jetbug's left arm shows the under-arm piece for both the heroes and villains clearly. Either 4 or 5 studs long, it has a socket on one end, a ball joint on the other, and a second ball joint in between as part of the arm, which is what the armour attaches to. The resulting piece doesn't have any extra aesthetic piece, but it works fantastically as part of the skeleton that ample combinations of "exo-skeleton" pieces can be added on top of in. The Fire Lord's arm also shows the piece with armour attached.

It seems that Hero Factory has transitioned completely into a ball-and-socket system, that is completely distinct from the TECHNIC system that BIONICLE split off from so many years ago. I just hope that with so many of them, the sockets are finally stable. I also wonder what that means for the large sets of Summer 2011, and whether they'll be able to be complex non-humanoids using a ball-and-socket system rather than the TECHNINC/BIONICLE system of this year's large sets.

[vexorian]

Not a great fan of it.

I don't know but ever since 2007-ish, ball socket is a synonym of "the piece will break". Adding more things that have to be attached like that sounds like adding many more chances of breaking things altogether...

Plus I think it would reduce options, starting to think the heroes look deform when not in the 'perfect' perspective.

[Bfahome]

I feel like I just came into an entirely new thread, because we've been talking about the fact that the armor connects via ball joint for at least two weeks.

Yes, they're 2011 pieces. That's why I added them.

Not a great fan of it.

I don't know but ever since 2007-ish, ball socket is a synonym of "the piece will break". Adding more things that have to be attached like that sounds like adding many more chances of breaking things altogether...

Plus I think it would reduce options, starting to think the heroes look deform when not in the 'perfect' perspective.

The clip looks different than the usual clips, being more round and looking a bit more shallow.

[Aanchir]

Balljoints is an unexpected development for the armour pieces. Good find though!

I relooked over the images we've seen so far, and Jetbug's left arm shows the under-arm piece for both the heroes and villains clearly. Either 4 or 5 studs long, it has a socket on one end, a ball joint on the other, and a second ball joint in between as part of the arm, which is what the armour attaches to. The resulting piece doesn't have any extra aesthetic piece, but it works fantastically as part of the skeleton that ample combinations of "exo-skeleton" pieces can be added on top of in. The Fire Lord's arm also shows the piece with armour attached.

It seems that Hero Factory has transitioned completely into a ball-and-socket system, that is completely distinct from the TECHNIC system that BIONICLE split off from so many years ago. I just hope that with so many of them, the sockets are finally stable. I also wonder what that means for the large sets of Summer 2011, and whether they'll be able to be complex non-humanoids using a ball-and-socket system rather than the TECHNINC/BIONICLE system of this year's large sets.

Well, Hero Factory hasn't completely departed from pin-and-beam structures. Looking at some of the villains (particularly Fire Lord), there are some pretty blatant new parts with a pin-and-beam design. One clear example can be seen in the orange pieces used as his upper legs-- while the pin holes aren't totally visible, you can see that this piece in its familiar grey color is attached to the back. In turn, there's another piece attached behind the grey piece: from appearances, it's about the same as the grey piece but with ball joints replacing pins on one side. His lower legs also have visible Technic pin holes.

What there are really few of are Technic axle holes. The hands and the feet both have them for the Heroes, as do some older parts on the villains, but not much beyond that from what has been seen.

Also, it turns out that there will be a new socket joint piece. It's in LDD, and basically is yet another reworking of the classic y-joint, this time with the Ben 10 style of joint. Overall, the appearance of next year's socket joints in general gives me a lot more confidence than past re-workings, and I imagine that they'll be a lot more structurally sound. In which case, Front, would you be the one to thank?

[Biggie Smals :)]

I think that hero factory is the BIGGEST thing

[Front]

Also, it turns out that there will be a new socket joint piece. It's in LDD, and basically is yet another reworking of the classic y-joint, this time with the Ben 10 style of joint. Overall, the appearance of next year's socket joints in general gives me a lot more confidence than past re-workings, and I imagine that they'll be a lot more structurally sound. In which case, Front, would you be the one to thank?

The ball-cup is a new design that use ideas from the 2010 Ben 10 designed ball-cup. I've been responsible for getting this new ball-cup design implemented in our CAD system, so it's straight forward to add to new parts (creating new limbs etc.). And I've tweaked the ball cup to look more nice in the eyes of the designers. But the actual engineering of the ball cup, ensuring function and strength, has been the job of my colleagues. But they sit right next to me, so I've kept an eye on them, making sure they didn't screw it

Erland, Part Design

[Aethersprite]

As long as they don't snap, I'm fine with ball and sockets.

Only a few more months to go.

EDIT: Someone on BZP found the new socket piece:

Edited November 2, 2010 by Lockon Stratos

[Zarkan]

Interesting - it seems they've gone back to a curved socket type as opposed to the angular design they've used since 2008. Hopefully this means socket strength is back to pre-2008 levels, otherwise I may have totally lost faith in TLC's quality control.