Star Wars: OT vs. PT vs. TCW

[Churchill]

First of all, I want to say that there are Star Wars fans who would argue on one side of this issue to their deathbed, and any amount of argument I provide is next to worthless in comparison...

In the Original Trilogy, the story felt personal, with not so much the Alliance against the Empire as Luke, Han, and Leia against Vader.

Another thing is the depiction of the starships in the Prequels. I have heard Original Trilogy fans state multiple times that the X-wing, TIE fighter, and Millennium Falcon, among other ships, have their own distinctive personalities and are just as much characters in the story as Luke, Han, and Leia.

Like FallenAngel says, people would argue a side to their deathbed... so I'm just going to add some other things that make the OT more attractive to me. Of course, I'm biased, because I literally grew up on the OT.

I always felt much more of a connection to Luke, Han and Leia as individuals. Like FallenAngel said, it felt much more personal- and in my opinion, the PT and CW are much less about rooting for individual heroes with flaws than for superheroes or "sides."

I also completely agree about the vehicles. Particularly the MF. It was a character all by itself. We just don't have that as much in CW... and I kind of like CW.... all the ships are generic, or discardable. Sure, we have/had some personal ships, like Dokoo's, or the Twilight. But I've never heard their owners talk to them like Han did the MF. I don't have any affection for any of the Jedi Starfighters because they're all the same, and are going to be replaced anyway. I suppose you could make the same arguement about the xwings, but always felt like the Rebellion just keep together what they could scrape up, so "Luke's xwing" did sort of have a personality. And they were a cobbled together squadron, which gave it more character.

Finally, I remember the first time SW was going to be on broadcast TV (or was it HBO?). That in and of itself was an event. I don't think I'd seen any SW other than my various SW toys and paraphenalia since I saw it in the theater. Now, the marketing with SW in part I think got us into this mess, and it's a reflection of the age we live in, but you can't get away from SW now. I can watch any part, any time. Even when I'm not in front of a TV I can watch SW. So I do look back with fondness for the early days of the OT. When it was amazing just to get a paper/cardboard "promise" of Kenner figures to come.

Hopefully those points (tip of the hat to Fallenangel) are less arguementative, and more "why I like..," which is really what this discussion should be about- so everyone's opinion can be understood, appreciated, and who knows, maybe even agreed with.

[Clone OPatra]

I always felt much more of a connection to Luke, Han and Leia as individuals.

This too is what does it for me. The OT has actually human characters, and even if they're flying around in starships saving the galaxy an audience can still relate to them.

I'm not one to bash the PT, since I enjoy a very well done sci-fi movie (and badly done sci-fi movies as well), but the main characters in the PT just aren't human. None of them are. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Anakin are all super-skilled enhanced people who have a tough time showing normal emotion, even in situations when they should. Padme, who is supposed to be a normal human, also comes across as super-human, not only because she was effortlessly queen at "14," but also because of her fighting ability. Just look at the Geonosis battle scenes; no normal human could do the stuff that she does.

I know there is a lot of hating on Jar-Jar, but he was a character that I always liked because he at least seems a bit more like a normal person. Taking out the Trade Federation in the battle of Naboo didn't seem so effortless for the Gungans, which made it much more interesting than other battles.

Still, even without human characters I think that Episode III is fabulous, and a pure film for Star Wars fans. It at least is pretty dark, which makes it more fun to watch. I could watch the Order 66 scenes over and over.

[simonjedi]

I'm not one to bash the PT, since I enjoy a very well done sci-fi movie (and badly done sci-fi movies as well), but the main characters in the PT just aren't human. None of them are. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Anakin are all super-skilled enhanced people who have a tough time showing normal emotion, even in situations when they should. Padme, who is supposed to be a normal human,

It's because the prequels were badly written and directed, plus most of the cast were acting in a green room talking to poles that were supposed to be something. THe best actors in the PT are Ewan McGregor, because he at least had reference about how to do obi wan('You were the chosen one' was one of the best acted line in the whole thing.) and Ian McDiarmid who was mostly hamming it up and just enjoying it, but the opera scene was really good

[General Magma]

I agree. CW just doesn't seem realistically Star Wars. What it comes down to is that (and I've said it before and I'll say it again) if CW were executed properly, I would probably have liked it. Despite the targeted audience of kids, a show that has the good guys win every time and throws this ship and that ship into Star Wars canon for no reason other than to make the good guys win again and then rewrites existing timelines with that information just isn't that good. There are good points of the CW show, in iconic vehicles like the RGS and Venator, but the way they're portrayed and put together with all those other vehicles and characters simply isn't very Star Warsy.

I have to agree with you there.

TCW has too many new ships and vehicles thrown into the show, while we don't see such large amounts of variable vehicles used by a total of two factions in the OT. The CIS is mostly outnumbered, or loses way too easily. They added some stupid jokes for the battle droids, which doesn't seem right to me. It is a war, isn't it? No kiddy festival. Obi-Wan, as in EP4: ANH, described the Clone Wars as a time everybody would rather forget about, while in the CW movie he was just drinking tea with a CIS general.

Episode 1 and 2 (the prequels) weren't good, and mostly badly written. For some reason, I did like episode 3: ROTS, though. (Most parts of it, that is..)

TCW and most aspects from the prequels just don't do it for me as real Star Wars. I can still accept them, but not completely..

OT stands above all, of course - the pride of Star Wars, where realism is to be found. It's not perfect either, but hey, can you name anything that is perfect?

The Original Trilogy will always remain my favorite, although I build stuff from all most eras.

The OT didn't use CGI. Instead, real models of the vehicles and buildings were used, making it more real.

~ General Magma

[Brickdoctor]

Lucas is so full of shit. Star Wars wasn't originally supposed to be 'The Saga of Anakin' In ANH Vader was just a scary looking imperial officer. He wasn't supposed to be Luke's dad (luke's dad was a separate character.) RotJ is basically 6, 7, 8 and 9 compressed into one movie. There are two many plot holes introduced in the PT to make it sync up right.

Yeah, I remember that. Something like Vader killed Luke's real father, and Luke isn't Leia's brother, and his real sister doesn't appear until Ep. 8 and the Emperor doesn't appear 'til Ep. 9.

also completely agree about the vehicles. Particularly the MF. It was a character all by itself. We just don't have that as much in CW... and I kind of like CW.... all the ships are generic, or discardable.

Not that they didn't try.

It's because the prequels were badly written and directed, plus most of the cast were acting in a green room talking to poles that were supposed to be something. THe best actors in the PT are Ewan McGregor, because he at least had reference about how to do obi wan('You were the chosen one' was one of the best acted line in the whole thing.) and Ian McDiarmid who was mostly hamming it up and just enjoying it, but the opera scene was really good

No way. The best actor in the PT was Anthony Daniels. But I guess he has an advantage in emotion acting since you can't see his face. And he's an AnH veteran.

[Clone OPatra]

No way. The best actor in the PT was Anthony Daniels. But I guess he has an advantage in emotion acting since you can't see his face. And he's an AnH veteran.

So is Ian McDiarmid.

I too think that Ewan McGregor is the best of the PT actors. Obi-Wan might not be human, but he is a fun and well-played character throughout.

[Brickdoctor]

So is Ian McDiarmid.

He's also what? He doesn't wear a mask or play someone in AnH.

[Cad Bane]

TCW has too many new ships and vehicles thrown into the show, while we don't see such large amounts of variable vehicles used by a total of two factions in the OT. The CIS is mostly outnumbered, or loses way too easily. They added some stupid jokes for the battle droids, which doesn't seem right to me. It is a war, isn't it? No kiddy festival. Obi-Wan, as in EP4: ANH, described the Clone Wars as a time everybody would rather forget about, while in the CW movie he was just drinking tea with a CIS general.

Episode 1 and 2 (the prequels) weren't good, and mostly badly written. For some reason, I did like episode 3: ROTS, though. (Most parts of it, that is..)

TCW and most aspects from the prequels just don't do it for me as real Star Wars. I can still accept them, but not completely..

OT stands above all, of course - the pride of Star Wars, where realism is to be found. It's not perfect either, but hey, can you name anything that is perfect?

The Original Trilogy will always remain my favorite, although I build stuff from all most eras.

The OT didn't use CGI. Instead, real models of the vehicles and buildings were used, making it more real.

Okay, I have to say as a CW fan that yes the movie and most of the first season were well...stupid. The second season was good for a TV show and had (for the most part) decent story-lines. The 3rd season is great! It gives characters complexity and adds new depth and motives. Recently we learned that Count Dooku wants to overthrow his master. This may attribute to the fact that he doen't regret disposing him in ROTS. Plus, contrary to what you said, they are real Star Wars and it's very insulting to those who like the entire saga as a story rather than praising mainly OT and shunning the rest.

I forget who commented that it's destroying the previously set cannon and screwing up the EU. Quite the opposite in fact. It has every right to create its own stories (George Lucas ultimately has to approve of everything) as it is a higher cannon than the stuff that it's messing up. The cannon can not be one of your issues with TCW because it is an ill-founded complaint.

Another comment was that TCW is all happy go lucky and Anakin shows no sign of his inner "beast". And while this is true for the first and some of the second seasons, parts of the 2nd and all-ish of the 3rd show that Anakin has a darker entity that he struggles with. In the Geonosis arc, he begins to show that he can't let go of his attachments to his loved ones (in this case his padawan) and is willing to kill innocent beings to save one life. This forshaddows him joining the Dark Side to save Padme. We find out how the civilians suffer in the war (a very realistic subject not much mentioned in Star Wars) and as we move further into the season, the episodes protray a much darker war.

Lastly, yes, the acting in the prequels is meh. Especially Hayden's (Anakin) who is unable to display any realistic emotion. Casting FAIL in that case, eccept little Annie he was kinda cute/innocent. Padme and Obi-Wan on the other hand are play by very capable actors. (though I'm not sure that you can compete with Harison Ford...) And I must say that my favorite Star Wars movie is a tie between ROTS and ROTJ. I love the Order 66 scenes and the epicness of the battles they really make you feel for the dead jedi...very sad scene. ROTJ is a much lighter film but brings the story to a close nicely. My favorite parts are the Jabba scenes and the ending battle of Endor.

[Brickdoctor]

I forget who commented that it's destroying the previously set cannon and screwing up the EU. Quite the opposite in fact. It has every right to create its own stories (George Lucas ultimately has to approve of everything) as it is a higher cannon than the stuff that it's messing up. The cannon can not be one of your issues with TCW because it is an ill-founded complaint.

That would be me. Firstly, just because it has the right to do it doesn't mean it isn't doing it. Secondly, just because George Lucas approves it doesn't mean it's good or that it doesn't destroy existing stories. There are many good Clone Wars stories out there that are now ambiguously canon due to what CW has done. And just because it's considered canon doesn't mean it compliments the existing stories. The original Clone Wars Anakin, sans Delta 7-B fighter, good nature, and Ahsoka fit in perfectly with what we know of the angry Anakin in AotC, the hateful Anakin in RotS, and the suffering Vader in the OT.

[Fallenangel]

I forget who commented that it's destroying the previously set cannon and screwing up the EU. Quite the opposite in fact. It has every right to create its own stories (George Lucas ultimately has to approve of everything) as it is a higher cannon than the stuff that it's messing up. The cannon can not be one of your issues with TCW because it is an ill-founded complaint.

I believe that was Brickdoctor and me, among others, and if you see just why the '08 series is a "higher cannon" you might see why we're so upset:

T-canon,[2] or Television Canon[3], refers to the canon level comprising the feature film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series.[4][5] It was devised recently in order to define a status above the C-Level canon, as confirmed by Chee[6].

So far the only canon "higher" than our established Expanded Universe and Clone Wars is a show that doesn't exist yet and this show. Apparently Lucas wasn't happy with crushing the hearts of Original Trilogy fans by turning Vader into a cute little kid (among other points of complaint) and wants to ruin the franchise for the newer generation as well. As thus there's a certain lack of credibility in it. Even if Lucas did create the franchise it doesn't mean we as fans are expected to sit back and cheer as he takes out a part of what we love. And why define a canon "above" Expanded Universe canon? Could it have something to do with the massive retcons that were introduced in the Prequels?

Lastly, yes, the acting in the prequels is meh. Especially Hayden's (Anakin) who is unable to display any realistic emotion. Casting FAIL in that case, eccept little Annie he was kinda cute/innocent.

See, Vader was never supposed to be cute/innocent. Enough fans were enraged in '83 when Jedi made him out to be a pale, fragile egghead of a man. (Not to mention the fact that it should have been David Prowse under that helmet.) And as Brickdoctor said, with the release of the Prequels Lucas now expects us to sympathize with the figure who was ultimately destined to be evil incarnate (alongside Tarkin, I guess, but they killed Tarkin in the first film.)

[simonjedi]

Yeah, I remember that. Something like Vader killed Luke's real father, and Luke isn't Leia's brother, and his real sister doesn't appear until Ep. 8 and the Emperor doesn't appear 'til Ep. 9.

Yeah that's mainly it. See the 'Secret history of Star Wars' for more info [Plug]

No way. The best actor in the PT was Anthony Daniels. But I guess he has an advantage in emotion acting since you can't see his face. And he's an AnH veteran.

3P0 is a completely pointless character in the PT, he's just there as fan service really (like Boba fett in AotC) The whole Vader built 3P0 thing was rubbish and really not needed at all.

Actually thinking about it, Shimi and Anakin weren't actually mistreated at all when they were slaves. They had a decent house, and enough free time to build a robot (That wouldn't be that helpful) and basically a space F1 car in THEIR BACKYARD! I don't know why the republic didn't free Shimi after Naboo either.

[Zarkan]

I am a Star Wars fan, and in my dictionary, a true Star Wars fan accepts and loves everything about the franchise. Yeah there maybe some things that I don't necessarily like, but overall I've come to accept those and everything about SW, from OT, to PT, to CW, and even the EU stuff.

I'm sorry, but if that includes accepting and loving the Legacy series, which only served to establish that everything the Rebellion and New Republic did in the past thirty years was for naught, then I'm afraid I can't accept your definition of "a true StarWars fan." Heck, if being a true fan of any series required blindly accepting everything that happened in it, no matter how horribly-written or downright appalling, then I'm not sure I'd want to be listed as one.

Also, I find it rather rude of you to suggest that everyone who considers the OT to be the prime representation of Star Wars is somehow "elitist." For the record, while I think the first three films (especially episodes IV and V) put the others to shame, I've enjoyed Star Wars material beyond just what George Lucas has ordained. Timothy Zahn's novels are an excellent example of works that take the franchise in new directions while still being of high quality, and they've lead me to believe that the prequells would have succeeded on all accounts if they had been written by him. The Force Unleashed video game also had an excellent storyline, and anything I've read featuring Rogue Squadron has been a blast. My problem with the prequells, the recent TV series, and heck, almost anything Star Wars related in the last few years is not because they were different, but because in my opinion, they failed to capture the magic of "True Star Wars."

To me, at its best, True Star Wars is serious, but also fun. It is well written and well characterized, but also full of imagination. Most importantly, it is dark in spots, but not to the point where the darkness is all there is to be had. The problem with a lot of recent Star Wars media, including season three of The Clone Wars, is that it tries too hard to be "mature" - and in the process it ends up not being nearly as fun as earlier material. The first movies, the Zahn novels, and a lot of what came first depicted a world that was fraught with conflict, but was not without hope. Now, we're instead being lead to believe that the Star Wars universe is overall hopeless, with so much evil that what little good remains is tasked with a pointless mission. In modern Star Wars, the Dark Side reigns supremely, and this mindset drags down storylines in a sort of faux-maturity that is used in place of good writing. Why exactly do we need another Darth Maul character, except to re-ennact the same fall-from-grace storyline that's already been told far too many times in Star Wars? Heck, why do we even need The Clone Wars series, when we all know that everything taking place in it doesn't change the ultimate outcome of Revenge of the Sith? If they're trying to convince people that Anikan wasn't actually that bad of a person, well, they're failing miserably, as all they're doing is contradicting what was (poorly) established in the movies. More likely, they just know that people will eat up anything with the Star Wars label on it no matter what its actual quality is.

I'm sorry if I sound a little ticked off, but honestly, I've become convinced that Star Wars is nothing now except a gigantic cash cow. Good works set inside the universe may still pop up from time to time, but by and large the franchise exists solely to make money. George Lucas once had an amazing vision, and I'm sad to see him run his work run further and further down into the ground. If he was wise, he'd retire from everything Star Wars and give the franchise up to people more suited to continue it. But, since that will never happen.... it was nice knowing you, Star Wars.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Zarkan

[Brickdoctor]

3P0 is a completely pointless character in the PT, he's just there as fan service really (like Boba fett in AotC) The whole Vader built 3P0 thing was rubbish and really not needed at all.

Actually thinking about it, Shimi and Anakin weren't actually mistreated at all when they were slaves. They had a decent house, and enough free time to build a robot (That wouldn't be that helpful) and basically a space F1 car in THEIR BACKYARD! I don't know why the republic didn't free Shimi after Naboo either.

Eh, I agree he's a better character in the OT, but I still think he's one of the better PT main characters. Other than the whole 'Anakin built 3PO' thing, as you said. 'Course, if they had stuck with the original vision of Vader then that problem wouldn't exist.

[Fallenangel]

I'm sorry, but if that includes accepting and loving the Legacy series, which only served to establish that everything the Rebellion and New Republic did in the past thirty years was for naught, then I'm afraid I can't accept your definition of "a true StarWars fan." Heck, if being a true fan of any series required blindly accepting everything that happened in it, no matter how horribly-written or downright appalling, then I'm not sure I'd want to be listed as one.

Also, I find it rather rude of you to suggest that everyone who considers the OT to be the prime representation of Star Wars is somehow "elitist." For the record, while I think the first three films (especially episodes IV and V) put the others to shame, I've enjoyed Star Wars material beyond just what George Lucas has ordained. Timothy Zahn's novels are an excellent example of works that take the franchise in new directions while still being of high quality, and they've lead me to believe that the prequells would have succeeded on all accounts if they had been written by him. The Force Unleashed video game also had an excellent storyline, and anything I've read featuring Rogue Squadron has been a blast. My problem with the prequells, the recent TV series, and heck, almost anything Star Wars related in the last few years is not because they were different, but because in my opinion, they failed to capture the magic of "True Star Wars."

There we go. I think that this was part of what I've been wanting to say all along...

And Anakin building Threepio was a retcon too.

[The Legonater]

I too think that Ewan McGregor is the best of the PT actors. Obi-Wan might not be human, but he is a fun and well-played character throughout.

Agreed. McGregor did an excellant job of echoing Alec Guiness's performance of a wise man, but yet with a touch of 'inner humour.' If not for the horrid addition of Skywalker groaning 'I hate you' over and over, the final sceane with him on Mustafar would have likely been very moving.

Yes, like said earlier, one of the main problems in CW is the one-sided nice. But the way I see it is a bigger problem- it's not showing a war. Yes, there's several battles, but it's not war. War is emotionally gripping, an experiance where any second you could turn to see your friend with an arm blown off or worse, and step on a landmine when you least expect it. This is more like an online game, where you don't worry what's going to happen becuase you can just egt back and do it again. CW has to many expendable charecters- people that they bring in to die. And most serious deaths aren't dealt with properly. The only good death I recall of the series was Hevy's sacrifice. Other than that they are either too predictable or not portrayed well enough. And to add to that, there is little serious threat. Part of that is dealing with charecters whose lives after the battle are already fleshed out. CW needs to devolp more in-depth charecters, ones who you feel for, and ones who's fate is unkown. Ashoka is currently the only one who fits into that category.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind CW. There are some really cool episodes- such as the Ryloth trilogy and Landing at Point Rain- which are a blast to watch. But I feel that these episodes are too few and far apart for a great series. Which is dissapointing- the series has a lot of potential. I remember watching the trailer for the original trailer and getting so exited by shots like Anakin leaping from STAP to STAP or the AT-TE going up the cliff. Lately though, exitment such has this has dwindled for most episodes. I'm really hoping the writing staff makes a change in some of their desicions.

[Brickdoctor]

Also, I find it rather rude of you to suggest that everyone who considers the OT to be the prime representation of Star Wars is somehow "elitist." For the record, while I think the first three films (especially episodes IV and V) put the others to shame, I've enjoyed Star Wars material beyond just what George Lucas has ordained. Timothy Zahn's novels are an excellent example of works that take the franchise in new directions while still being of high quality, and they've lead me to believe that the prequells would have succeeded on all accounts if they had been written by him.

I definitely agree.

Yes, like said earlier, one of the main problems in CW is the one-sided nice. But the way I see it is a bigger problem- it's not showing a war. Yes, there's several battles, but it's not war.

You've hit the nail on the head there, Legonater. The one most important reason (though there are others) why CW is irrealistic.

[Ceroknight]

I wondered when this topic would be posted, a poll would also be nice , I personally think that the Clone Wars is quite interesting, but I never watched it. I was planning to watch the movie for the sake of our friend George but it didn't really appeal to me. If I had never watched the Original, 10 times, The PT and the Clone Wars would have made me want to watch it and realize how fantastic it is. Recent movies like TRON legacy can't do that because it makes you think how bad the original TRON looks like.

I think this is just the typical "dammit the sequel ruined the original" case. Like lots of TV shows and books. But if you get used to it, you don't mind it.

I'm just curious what starwars will look like in future generations

[Gryphon Ink]

Lucas is so full of shit. Star Wars wasn't originally supposed to be 'The Saga of Anakin' In ANH Vader was just a scary looking imperial officer. He wasn't supposed to be Luke's dad (luke's dad was a separate character.) RotJ is basically 6, 7, 8 and 9 compressed into one movie. There are two many plot holes introduced in the PT to make it sync up right.

You hit the nail on the head right there. This, for me, is the crux of the problem with basically every Star Wars event since ANH, and the thing that has made me like every new installment a little bit less, to the point where I don't even care enough to watch the CW DVDs (I don't have TV, so watching it live isn't in the cards. I've only seen a few episodes of CW). To me, ANH was an amazing movie. Everything else is just a bunch of sequels that got progressively more watered down and less interesting. We start off with an epic battle of good vs. evil, the story of a simple farmboy taking his place in the fight against oppression. Real characters with human limitations, having real relationships. An old man who was once a great fighter and can still do some pretty cool stuff in a pinch. A philosophy that wasn't thrown in our faces and explicated to the point of total nonsensicality.

Everything starts to go downhill with ESB. Taking Obi-Wan's place is an 800-year-old Muppet who can levitate a machine the size of an F-15. The fights get more acrobatic. Instead of one huge, impractical terror weapon, we have a whole battle group of huge, impractical terror machines landing on Hoth. Instead of the Falcon fighting TIE fighters, the Falcon is fighting TIE fighters and a fleet of Star Destroyers in a swirling maelstrom of dancing asteroids. There are worms big enough to eat starships living in the vacuum of space. The Dark Side is part of us. The ultimate face of evil is the hero's father. The hot princess is the hero's sister. ESB was well directed, but still a lot sillier, and seemed sillier than it was by virtue of having everything take on a faux-serious context. Lucas is telling us "this isn't just fluff, it's SERIOUS STUFF!"

ROTJ: More Muppets. Lots more Muppets. The farmboy hero has become Spider-Man, jumping all over the place and using his superpowers to fight off giant monsters left and right. The hot princess shows some skin. The ultimate evil isn't ultimately evil anymore, so we meet a new Ultimate Evil and yet another huge, impractical terror weapon. The war is won with the help of some teddy bears who have never seen a robot before. The former ultimate evil father is redeemed, the sister gets together with the pirate, everybody happy. "This series was never about Luke Skywalker, it's about the good and evil in all of us. This was Anakin Skywalker's story!"

TPM: Hey, remember the ultimate face of evil back in the first movie? Well, he was once a cute little mop-top kid. And he built C-3PO. And he was a slave! Isn't that cool? Isn't it deep? And now EVERYBODY is a Muppet! And everybody can jump around like Spider-Man! And everything is shinier! And here's a new ultimate face of evil! Don't get too attached to him, by the way.

AOTC: Hey, remember that battle between good and evil? Well, forget it. This is about politics. I told you this was a serious story! The cute little mop-top is all grown up, and he's deeply conflicted. But he's still a good guy. Oh, and here's another fifty million shiny spaceships. Begun this clone war has.

ROTS: ended this clone war has. Look, more shiny spaceships! Isn't it cool how they sort of resemble the spaceships you used to love?

CW: OMG, did I really just kill my cash cow? Wut was I thinking? Wait, let's backtrack. There's SO MUCH MORE money, er, I mean story that I wanted to tell. Look, a shiny spaceship! You should buy it, it might look exactly like the shiny spaceship in AOTC but really it's an advanced model, not at all the same thing.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Gryphon Ink

[Brickdoctor]

[snip]

That is the most hilarious satire I have read in a long time. Although I have to point out that Luke didn't know Leia was his sister until RotJ, and disagree because I think ESB is on par with AnH.

[The Legonater]

That is the most hilarious satire I have read in a long time. Although I have to point out that Luke didn't know Leia was his sister until RotJ, and disagree because I think ESB is on par with AnH.

Yeah, though I don't totally agree, it is pretty funny

[Stegoceras]

Lucas is so full of shit. Star Wars wasn't originally supposed to be 'The Saga of Anakin' In ANH Vader was just a scary looking imperial officer. He wasn't supposed to be Luke's dad (luke's dad was a separate character.) RotJ is basically 6, 7, 8 and 9 compressed into one movie. There are two many plot holes introduced in the PT to make it sync up right.

To be honest, I kind of understand Lucas in this aspect. In my free time I like drawing comic stories and often the greatest ideas are not the ones I came up at the beginning but while I'm actually working on them. I'd call it sheer genius on Lucas' side for turning Vader into Luke's dad, he created a very interesting plot twist and that it created a nice opportunity for him to earn lots more money was nice advantage as well, good for him. Honestly he could do what he wants with the franchise, it's his, We don't have to like it, but we ourselves choose what to accept into the way we experience Star Wars and what parts we don't, there really is not point taking it out on Lucas.

and please everyone, I know your all fierce protectors of the part you like best but don't bash too much on what other people like and then get frustrated when they say something in return.

[Brickdoctor]

To be honest, I kind of understand Lucas in this aspect. In my free time I like drawing comic stories and often the greatest ideas are not the ones I came up at the beginning but while I'm actually working on them. I'd call it sheer genius on Lucas' side for turning Vader into Luke's dad, he created a very interesting plot twist and that it created a nice opportunity for him to earn lots more money was nice advantage as well, good for him. Honestly he could do what he wants with the franchise, it's his, We don't have to like it, but we ourselves choose what to accept into the way we experience Star Wars and what parts we don't, there really is not point taking it out on Lucas.

Oh yes, I agree. Actually I don't really mind the whole Vader-Luke relationship, it's what Anakin was made out to be in the PT, not the OT that bothers me. Without TPM and AotC, Vader is still the evil monster in AnH and ESB. Not so much in RotJ, but the OT has a poetic justice ending, and it was kind of necessary to soften Vader up for Ep. 6. Even though 4 and 5 are still far and away better than 6. Honestly, I think if Vader really was a rogue who killed Luke's real father, it would have been too much like a classic fairytale. Bad guy does something bad to a good guy, another good guy goes and avenges the first good guy. This way, now all 4 human main characters become dynamic characters.

[Cad Bane]

I will not get into this which-movie-is-best argument because I appreciate and will continue to enjoy Star Wars as a six movie saga, not one movie with two sequels and three prequels (that may or may not "ruin" the original). Because no matter what you'd like to believe, Vader is Luke's father and he once was an innocent little boy. It is this story which display’s the true abusiveness of evil, and how much disregard it has for life and happiness. I really think that the prequels show just how much work Sidious put into his master plot and how he sacrifices his apprentices'.

Now moving on...

I guess I could explain why I like the Clone Wars. It is an entertaining show that fills the gap between the movies and provides a weekly dose of Star Wars. It's just fun. There are new characters and ships that get introduced (though some don't like that) and we see characters that got only seconds of screen time expanded. Also, after dabbling in animation, I appreciate this from that standpoint. The improvement of the animation through the seasons is very visible and an immense accomplishment. It's probably has some of the best animation on TV.

The negatives of the show are minor. Yes, sometimes it messes with the storyline a bit, but overall, it doesn't change anything important. (AKA the actual movies, yes it may contradict some books, but that's moderately on the obscure side and isn't a huge deal) The biggest blip that has come along is of course the ever hated Ahsoka (whom I think is decent) because of the fact that Anakin's apprentice is never mentioned in the movies. (Hopefully that will be resolved by some tragic death that they don't want to talk about or something like that...) Unfortunately, it has just come to my attention that the late Qui-Gon Jinn is appearing in the CW in the upcoming episode arc (along with CW commandos but that’s another story). This IMO is a bit too far-fetched as (even though he's a ghost) it contradicts directly from the movie where Obi-Wan is astonished to hear that Yoda heard from Qui-Gon etc. Maybe it is at this point that the Jedi learn the new art (Qui-Gon may have learned it on this new planet) I'll have to watch and find out. I only hope that it resolves itself somehow. Because Obi-Wan talking to Qui-Gon ghost is pushing the limit. I still enjoy the show, but I hope that is doesn't mess thing up. I have a good feeling though that this will be resolved.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Cad Bane

[Brickdoctor]

I really think that the prequels show just how much work Sidious put into his master plot and how he sacrifices his apprentices'.

The problem there is that Sidious was never meant to be the big baddie. That was originally Vader's position. But as you say, that's not how the movies turned out.

Also, after dabbling in animation, I appreciate this from that standpoint. The improvement of the animation through the seasons is very visible and an immense accomplishment. It's probably has some of the best animation on TV.

I guess this could vary a little based in your background, but FX still can't tell a story as well as a good script and acting can, no matter how much you like technological advancements.

yes it may contradict some books, but that's moderately on the obscure side and isn't a huge deal

With all due respect, maybe you don't think that isn't such a big deal, but there are a lot of us who read and are fans of the novels of that era. And there aren't very many people who've read the novels that would pick CW over, say, Republic Commando.

This IMO is a bit too far-fetched as (even though he's a ghost) it contradicts directly from the movie where Obi-Wan is astonished to hear that Yoda heard from Qui-Gon etc. Maybe it is at this point that the Jedi learn the new art (Qui-Gon may have learned it on this new planet) I'll have to watch and find out. I only hope that it resolves itself somehow. Because Obi-Wan talking to Qui-Gon ghost is pushing the limit.

Precisely. This show just keeps going further and further beyond what it should do to the timeline.

[Cad Bane]

Yah. and then there's this Darth Maul thing...

They implied he may appear to train Savage at a later date.