Star Wars: OT vs. PT vs. TCW

[BrickArtist]

It's space opera. It's not supposed to be realistic. If you want realistic go watch Star Trek or something.

I was wondering how the point brickdoctor made tied into this, I don't want realistic.

[The Legonater]

What's unrealistic about CW/ PT? Now I'm a PT fan, and how does it differentiate in terms of how realistic it is? I think a superlaser that blows up planets, People moving stuff without touching it(The force), and massive AT-ATs. Is just as 'unrealistic' as the PT.

What's unrealistic about TCW? Nearly everything, mainly- as I've stated before- it's showing a one-sided fistfight, not a full blown war where people you know die nearly everyday, and you yourself are on the brink of dieing. In TCW, the only people to die are people you barely know or just met. One of my favorite parts in Ep.4 had always been the part where Biggs gets shot down in the trench run- not because I'm cruel, bu because it's realisticly done, and you know that it's a real battle. In every battle of OT, and several in PT, show several people being shot down or killed, and you feel it. Anyone who dies in TCW is something just brushed away

As said above, the emotions in PT are fairly dull. Hayden Christionson and Nattalie Portman just can't show emotion realistically. Especially in RotS, those sceanes between them are soo hollow, and in AotC they seem almost cheezy. ESB and RotJ both have love sceanes similar to PT, except they worked, and worked well. If you're going to do a love sceane, you need a talented actor like Harrison Ford, not some teen star like Hayden. On the other hand, Ewan Macgregor did a great job of showing such emotion, like at the end of TPM and RotS. It's a shame at the end of the Mustafar duel the Ewan does such a great perforance, but Hayden ruins it with the throw in lines George Lucas put there. My friend and I have always thought the sceane should have went like this:

Anakin leaps after Obi-Wan, who slices him in half. Anakin falls into the lava, but his lightsaber is left on the ground. Obi-Wan still expresses his feelings, except without seeing Anakin. He picks up the saber and walks away. It's then revealed the Skywalker was using the Force to preserve his life, and pushes the lava ontop him away. Palpy sees him, and rescues him. That way, you still have an emotional sceane, Skyalker still gets put in the shiney suit, but it's not tainted with bad lines coupled with bad acting.

[Brickdoctor]

I was wondering how the point brickdoctor made tied into this, I don't want realistic.

Well if you don't want realistic, then that could be why you like CW/PT better than OT.

And fallenangel - don't say Star Wars isn't supposed to be realistic when I'm using that to argue for the OT. That's called friendly fire.

And in response to that, well OT is more realistic that CW/PT. Not as realistic as Star Trek, but more realistic than CW/PT.

[Churchill]

Maybe to avoid some conflict, we could have an OT discussion thread, where NO comparisons between it, PT, and CW exists. Anyone can look and participate, but it's purely about the OT, and those of use more "purist" OT types can just wax philosophical about the OT and attention to OT detail...

We could talk about specific OT questions, and OT MOCs or methods in MOC's that really help to achieve detail, and OT sets and rumours.

In that setting, Brickdoctor, FallenAngel, myself, etc, could just go on and on without getting criticized too much.

[Brickdoctor]

In that setting, Brickdoctor, FallenAngel, myself, etc, could just go on and on without getting criticized too much.

For the MOC discussions that'd work fine, but we what good is being able to argue for the OT without being criticized if there's no one to argue with?

[Churchill]

no one to argue with?

We can just pick on FallenAngel...

[Fallenangel]

I was wondering how the point brickdoctor made tied into this, I don't want realistic.

Well, you were arguing that the science-fiction elements of the Original Trilogy (e. g. the Death Star and AT-ATs) weren't any more realistic than those same elements of the Prequels (Lucrehulks, Hardcells, Venators). I simply meant that as the entire Star Wars franchise is space opera I can tolerate deviations from "realistic" science-fiction in that aspect. It's like simonjedi said.

Well if you don't want realistic, then that could be why you like CW/PT better than OT.

And fallenangel - don't say Star Wars isn't supposed to be realistic when I'm using that to argue for the OT. That's called friendly fire.

And in response to that, well OT is more realistic that CW/PT. Not as realistic as Star Trek, but more realistic than CW/PT.

Whoops. Read my justification above. And as The Legonater just mentioned, the Original Trilogy is more realistic in terms of human emotion than the Prequels can ever hope to be. Not to mention that people who die in the Original Trilogy are people we're supposed to actually care about. I mean, Nahdar Vebb was in like, what, one episode before Grievous cut him down?

Maybe to avoid some conflict, we could have an OT discussion thread, where NO comparisons between it, PT, and CW exists. Anyone can look and participate, but it's purely about the OT, and those of use more "purist" OT types can just wax philosophical about the OT and attention to OT detail...

We could talk about specific OT questions, and OT MOCs or methods in MOC's that really help to achieve detail, and OT sets and rumours.

In that setting, Brickdoctor, FallenAngel, myself, etc, could just go on and on without getting criticized too much.

I actually had a similar idea - what if we divided the LEGO Star Wars forum into Original Trilogy, Prequel, and '08 Clone Wars subforums? But then I thought, "nah, KielDaMan would never allow it."

We can just pick on FallenAngel...

Ha-ha, very funny...

[Brickdoctor]

I mean, Nahdar Vebb was in like, what, one episode before Grievous cut him down?

More like half.

I actually had a similar idea - what if we divided the LEGO Star Wars forum into Original Trilogy, Prequel, and '08 Clone Wars subforums? But then I thought, "nah, KielDaMan would never allow it."

I wouldn't go for that either. We have one forum per theme, so we have one forum for Star Wars. If you do that, then members will want to divide the Pirates forum into Bluecoats, Redcoats, and Pirates, and then the whole forum would split up.

[simonjedi]

We can just pick on FallenAngel...

I hear if you say 'screen inaccurate x-wing' 5 times in a row, he appears.

:P

3 separate subforums is pushing a bit. 3 'reference' theads would be a good idea though (OT, PT and CW/EU) It'll have reference pics and stuff like that.

[Fallenangel]

I hear if you say 'screen inaccurate x-wing' 5 times in a row, he appears.

:P

Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls...

3 separate subforums is pushing a bit. 3 'reference' theads would be a good idea though (OT, PT and CW/EU) It'll have reference pics and stuff like that.

That's a good idea. We could have a 'Links Index' divided into three parts. (KimT are you reading this?)

[Henchmen4Hire]

Obi-Wan still expresses his feelings, except without seeing Anakin.

That would have been hilarious, seeing a guy crying and talking to no one, like all the homeless guys downtown xD

(sorry bums, but sometimes you guys put on a great show!)

Edited February 6, 2011 by DrNightmare

[BrickArtist]

Well if you don't want realistic, then that could be why you like CW/PT better than OT.

And fallenangel - don't say Star Wars isn't supposed to be realistic when I'm using that to argue for the OT. That's called friendly fire.

And in response to that, well OT is more realistic that CW/PT. Not as realistic as Star Trek, but more realistic than CW/PT.

Urgh, I meant I don't particularly want excessive realism, or no realism.

It's a matter of opinion which is more realistic, not fact as you treat it...

I hear if you say 'screen inaccurate x-wing' 5 times in a row, he appears.

:P

No, all it takes is 'X-wing'. .....waits a few... he'll be here...

[The Legonater]

That would have been hilarious, seeing a guy crying and talking to no one, like all the homeless guys downtown xD

The thing is it does happen in real life- men and women openly mourning their friend on the battleground. And remember, Anakin was dead- but Vader was not.

[Churchill]

I was just thinking an OT thread, not a subforum.

[Aanchir]

Figured I'd pipe in, since 2011 pics are starting to surface. In my opinion, both the Star Wars prequels and the original trilogy were pretty great. A lot of people insist that the original trilogy is superior, but I feel it's worth pointing out that I was brought up on the original trilogy and still couldn't help but love Episode I during my childhood.

My tastes in movies aren't exactly discriminating, but I felt that Episode I was more just another part of the same universe, and not inherently incompatible. Its lighthearted attitude was certainly no further from the original trilogy than some of the extremely gritty and high-tension moments of expanded universe material. Jar Jar Binks does not even bother me, and I find his slapstick humor in Episode I is in fact a lot more authentic as far as humor is concerned than C-3PO getting his head swapped with a battle droid's in Episode II (I like the prequels, but they weren't immune to corny and trite gags like that one).

Episodes II and III were also very good in my opinion, and helped sort of "transition" the mood of the films from an innocent and lighthearted beginning to an "angsty adolescent phase", to the "coming-of-age" story that is A New Hope, and finally to the mature and somber conclusion of the original trilogy. In my opinion, it creates a very authentic emotional continuity, and one which is fully compatible with the transition from the Old Republic to the Empire and finally to the New Republic.

I will admit I have never watched Clone Wars-- neither the cartoon miniseries, nor the CGI movie, nor the CGI animated series that has been running ever since. And needless to say, I have not followed the story of any of these things, so I have no way to judge whether they're compatible with this emotional continuity. I'm certainly a fan of the artistic style, even if it leads to some dreadful-looking minifigures (granted, there have been worse minifigures with less justification).

[j30spiff]

The PT began at a period of time where Anakin was a small child and ended with Anakin as Darth Vader. The OT takes place in a considerably shorter amount of time. I grew up with the OT and saw them on the big screen as a child. I love everything about Star Wars, the good and the bad. I feel that there was a lot of content trying to be told in the PT and due to the restraints of 3 films, the story was never properly told. There's also a really large gap between the PT and OT.

[The Legonater]

There's also a really large gap between the PT and OT.

Actually it's only about 15 years.

[Brickdoctor]

Actually it's only about 15 years.

19.

And to be exact, the PT lasts 13* years, CW, 3, and the OT, 4.

*Including the CW period.

[Fallenangel]

19.

And to be exact, the PT lasts 13* years, CW, 3, and the OT, 4.

*Including the CW period.

Yeah, compared to how old some of the established Expanded Universe is (the Tales of the Jedi comics are 5000 BBY) the gap is pretty small. Considering that the Wars were supposed to have ended in 35 BBY, I think Lucas had intended for the gap to be larger. But then they had to include Luke and Leia being born at the end of Sith, among other things, which I think screwed up the timeframe. And there are some people, like StoutFiles who don't think the Prequels needed to be told.

[The Legonater]

19.

And to be exact, the PT lasts 13* years, CW, 3, and the OT, 4.

*Including the CW period.

Yeah, well, in my defence- I didn't have a book with the timeline on me and I didn't want to run and get one.

And there are some people, like StoutFiles who don't think the Prequels needed to be told.

There's also people who think only TFU needs to be told (Darth Sion)

IMO, PT is a great story that gets put down to much. Yes, it has it's short comings, but it's a nice story.

[j30spiff]

Yeah, well, in my defence- I didn't have a book with the timeline on me and I didn't want to run and get one.

There's also people who think only TFU needs to be told (Darth Sion)

IMO, PT is a great story that gets put down to much. Yes, it has it's short comings, but it's a nice story.

I enjoy the story that the PT tells, the acting and dialogue leaves a lot to be desired.

[Fallenangel]

Story?

I remember how I felt the first couple of times I watched Episode I - I had absolutely no idea what was going on. Despite having watched that film at least three times, to this day I cannot remember why Chancellor Valorum was so important or what Qui-Gon and Obi-wan were sent as "ambassadors" for in the first place (something about "Aggressive Negotiations"). And having recently watched the Red Letter Media review for Episode I at simonjedi's suggestion (in which the guy doing the review does not seem to understand how the movie fits together any better than I do) I am further convinced that Episode I had an unengaging plot with poor acting which they tried to cover up with massive amounts of CGI shots, none of which I can remember clearly. And of course, the characterization of Qui-Gon Jinn as a cheating and illogical drunkard was hilarious (to say nothing of all that rubbish he said about midi-chlorians).

In any case, to be honest, other than Maul and the Sith beginning to take revenge against the Jedi, the plot details didn't make any sense to me. At least Clones and Sith made some kind of sense (though the whole business about "emergency powers" and whatnot went completely over my head and would certainly have escaped the minds of the 8-year olds these movies were targeted at - which, on second thought, is a pretty good explanation for why there are so few LEGO sets from Clones).

Now, I'm not saying Episode I was completely terrible - Jake and Natalie are kinda cute, and I do like the design of the Radiant VII - but in terms of the plot, I maintain that it was just a bad movie. One of the things that the guy pointed out in the Red Letter Media review is that Qui-Gon, being so willing to manipulate others with his Jedi mind tricks, could have just stolen the parts from Watto and avoided the whole mess with Anakin and Maul, which I suppose would have resulted in a more efficient solution to the blockade and spared us a lot of bad dialogue, and then how would the Prequels have turned out?

[The Legonater]

Story?

I remember how I felt the first couple of times I watched Episode I - I had absolutely no idea what was going on. Despite having watched that film at least three times, to this day I cannot remember why Chancellor Valorum was so important or what Qui-Gon and Obi-wan were sent as "ambassadors" for in the first place (something about "Aggressive Negotiations"). And having recently watched the Red Letter Media review for Episode I at simonjedi's suggestion I am further convinced that Episode I had an unengaging plot with poor acting which they tried to cover up with massive amounts of CGI shots, none of which I can remember clearly.

At least Clones and Sith made some kind of sense (though the whole business about "emergency powers" and whatnot went completely over my head and would certainly have escaped the minds of the 8-year olds these movies were targeted at - which, on second thought, is a pretty good explanation for why there are so few LEGO sets from Clones).

Valorum's important because he was the supreme chancellor, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were sent as ambassadors because the Trade Fedaration was blockading Naboo for something about politics, Ep.3 had a lots more CGI shots than EP.1, and at least the acting was better than a lot of the movie and shows out there. Emergancy powers makes perfect sence- basically the leader gets to do more stuff because it's war. And the movies aren't targeted at 8-year old- why would a movie for 8-year old be rated PG-13?

[Aanchir]

One of the things that the guy pointed out in the Red Letter Media review is that Qui-Gon, being so willing to manipulate others with his Jedi mind tricks, could have just stolen the parts from Watto and avoided the whole mess with Anakin and Maul, which I suppose would have resulted in a more efficient solution to the blockade and spared us a lot of bad dialogue, and then how would the Prequels have turned out?

"I'm a Toydarian! Jedi mind tricks don't work on me!" --Watto

That's one line I still remember from watching Episode I when I was 9 years old. I loved the film thoroughly, and didn't find it confusing at all. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were ambassadors to the Trade Federation, presumably to investigate their increased presence near Naboo.

Meanwhile, this was the only film really strongly directed at "8-year-olds". The next two films IMO did a good job of showing the "growing-up" of the series from an innocent age of the Galactic Republic to a dark and corrupt Empire. It also helped me to better understand the earlier films (which I had been watching since my early childhood). I certainly wasn't just wowed by the expensive graphics, and at that age didn't even really notice that they were all that different from the more intricate use of mini-models and primitive digital editing used in episodes 4-6. Just wanted to share how I felt at that age. Episode I was still an integral part of my childhood and even today I don't regret enjoying it as much as I did.

[simonjedi]

The main problem with TPM is that you can completely ignore it and the saga would still make some sort of sense.