Star Wars: OT vs. PT vs. TCW

[BrickArtist]

See, that's what a lot of people don't get about RotS. It's very carefully laid out, every detail. People seem to want big obvious statements- I enjoy seeing the little thigns in movies. For example, besides a means of escape, Obi-Wan escaping amung his spare parts and hiding behind an asteroid has a seperate plot point. In episode 5, everyone feel for Han's Star Destroyer trick, except one person. Boba Fett- who had seen the same trick before. It's things like that that George Lucas lays out so well, so subtely, and people take it for granted, or throw it out the window. Palpatine's plot is so careful, and people acuse it of being stupid. The seduction of Anakin wasn't a week long event- it was the carefull layering of 13 years, plus whatever planning went before that.

Agreed. Everything in these movies has a reason, and llike I said above, it's a carefully laid out process. So many people just can't respect that. George, despite his flaws, is a genious. It's a complex process. It's what seperates SW from most of the horrid movies out there.

And that Orderr 66 scene was really cool

I think you might be on to something; maybe the reason I love the PT is their is so much more, little bits of the story that I still notice/uncover whenever I watch the movies. You see, one could never truly master every little thing in RotS. But in the OT the story is simpler(And great all the same). Maybe thats why CW fans, are often PT fans as well. You can explore so much more. Theres more to come, episode guides to read, little things to notice. That might be why OT fans like OT, they have complete closure. RotS didn't honestly make sense to me until I started watching it with the mind-set of uncovering new story elements, and I probably still haven't mastered the story. Everything has its purpose; you see some people just skim over the tall guys in red robes being escorted by the white and orange guys(212 Clones), when this really was the emperors first movement against all non-human species. Every little thing has a greater meaning.

Good observations, Legonater

Edited February 28, 2011 by DobbyClone

[XimenaPaulina]

I'd say we should add a 'Neutral' button. Because let's face it- there's people who are Neutral in this matter.

I would have to agree since I'm one of them. As much as I defend TCW, I'm still in favor of all of these factions in SW. I added another choice and changed the topic to a more appropriate one.

[BrickArtist]

Well, in all the posts I've made in this forum, I've criticized movies, actors, heck, God forbid, even George Lucas. But I never said anything about any other Eurobricks member.

This post is bringing out the worst in us.

My superior ego won't be posting in here any more.

I think as long as we acknowledge others points of view it should all be good. I'm trying to be respectful to the OT fans, or more realistically, those who put down RotS. I think that keeping an open mind should turn this thread into a discussion about what we like, what we don't like and why(Which is what I had hoped it would be). For example classifying the entire PT as bad movie making, might fall in the...disrespectful category.

I would have to agree since I'm one of them. As much as I defend TCW, I'm still in favor of all of these factions in SW. I added another choice and changed the topic to a more appropriate one.

Thanks KDM! I agree, I like all of SW, the PT is my favorite, but I still love the OT/TCW.

[BrickArtist]

Agreed. Everything in these movies has a reason, and llike I said above, it's a carefully laid out process. So many people just can't respect that. George, despite his flaws, is a genious. It's a complex process. It's what seperates SW from most of the horrid movies out there.

I missed that earlier-this is so true. Nobody in this forum, red letter media, or out in the world could have made SW. The story he put together is just...something else. I respect Lucas on so many levels.

Edited February 28, 2011 by DobbyClone

[Churchill]

Just to clarify, I meant no disrespect to anyone or their own opinions. I enjoy watching all six movies. Perhaps I shouldn't have phrased my prior comments the way that I did. I've enjoyed this thread, but perhaps I should just be a spectator!

[Brickdoctor]

Let's not use this topic to attack each other, okay?

See, that's what a lot of people don't get about RotS. It's very carefully laid out, every detail.

I won't disagree with you there, but sometimes that complexity isn't good. Star Wars is a sci-fi adventure, not a conspiracy story.

[BrickArtist]

I won't disagree with you there, but sometimes that complexity isn't good. Star Wars is a sci-fi adventure, not a conspiracy story.

As I said earlier, that's all point of view. You see, while you might like the simple story, I like the complex detailed structure RotS has. It's not like inception or anything-There is a story, it's more a question of do you want to learn it.

[Fallenangel]

I'd say we should add a 'Neutral' button. Because let's face it- there's people who are Neutral in this matter.

If you're neutral, you can just not vote...

This is why it always bothers me to see people say something is objectively worse than something else, implying that I, or anyone else who might have different opinions, have poorer taste or poorer perception. Nothing wrong with explaining your opinions, of course (I do it all the time), but those explanations don't serve as a reason your opinion is objective or non-preferential, and ideally you want to acknowledge this so you're not unintentionally using them just to bolster your ego with feelings of superiority.

All right then, I'll give one example of what I considered to be bad acting in the Prequels (and yes, this too was mentioned in the Red Letter Media review, but I noticed it well before I watched it.)

After arriving on Utapau, Obi-wan eventually comes face to face with General Grievous, who then spends over twelve parsecs* taking off his cloak, separating his arms, and lighting his lightsabers, while Ewan just stands there looking like an idiot. Now, I know this is because he literally stood in front of a wall when they were filming this, but it's still ridiculous to me. It's been established from the Clone Wars that Grievous can hold his own against around half a dozen Jedi and chop up clones like they're spaghetti, all while using only two of his arms - now one guy is up against this thing (who has four times as many lightsabers as he does), and he doesn't so much as flinch (or even better, have the sense to take a stab at his heart while he's lighting all those lightsabers)? Either Jedi in the Prequels have the ability to completely zone out when they are at a very high risk of dying, or that was a pretty poorly acted scene.

As for the complex plot of the Prequels, I'll say that I prefer a dumbed-down plot with characters that feel alive to a cast of emotionless, dumbed-down characters acting out a complex plot.

*Of course I know it's a unit of distance; I was making a reference to Han's meaningless boast in the Mos Eisley cantina.

[BrickArtist]

If you're neutral, you can just not vote...

All right then, I'll give one example of what I considered to be bad acting in the Prequels (and yes, this too was mentioned in the Red Letter Media review, but I noticed it well before I watched it.)

After arriving on Utapau, Obi-wan eventually comes face to face with General Grievous, who then spends over twelve parsecs* taking off his cloak, separating his arms, and lighting his lightsabers, while Ewan just stands there looking like an idiot. Now, I know this is because he literally stood in front of a wall when they were filming this, but it's still ridiculous to me. It's been established from the Clone Wars that Grievous can hold his own against around half a dozen Jedi and chop up clones like they're spaghetti, all while using only two of his arms - now one guy is up against this thing (who has four times as many lightsabers as he does), and he doesn't so much as flinch (or even better, have the sense to take a stab at his heart while he's lighting all those lightsabers)? Either Jedi in the Prequels have the ability to completely zone out when they are at a very high risk of dying, or that was a pretty poorly acted scene.

As for the complex plot of the Prequels, I'll say that I prefer a dumbed-down plot with characters that feel alive to a cast of emotionless, dumbed-down characters acting out a complex plot.

*Of course I know it's a unit of distance; I was making a reference to Han's meaningless boast in the Mos Eisley cantina.

You left out the fact that he was surrounded by 100+ BDs, droidekas, and SBDs. A move on grievous and he would have been executed, grievous wanted to personally take care of Kenobi. Had Obi-Wan of striked, Grievous would have whipped out his blades. Remember that Obi felt he could take on Vader in ANH, and this duel was one of his last. So are you comparing Grievous to Vader?

[Brickdoctor]

You left out the fact that he was surrounded by 100+ BDs, droidekas, and SBDs. A move on grievous and he would have been executed, grievous wanted to personally take care of Kenobi. Had Obi-Wan of striked, Grievous would have whipped out his blades.

He's talking about the way the actor portrayed Obi-Wan at that moment, not what Obi-Wan did in-universe.

[Fallenangel]

You left out the fact that he was surrounded by 100+ BDs, droidekas, and SBDs. A move on grievous and he would have been executed, grievous wanted to personally take care of Kenobi. Had Obi-Wan of striked, Grievous would have whipped out his blades. Remember that Obi felt he could take on Vader in ANH, and this duel was one of his last. So are you comparing Grievous to Vader?

Brickdoctor is right, but I'll try and argue the in-universe case as well:

- It's been established in earlier scenes from the Prequels that battle droids aren't a threat to Jedi. The droidekas didn't have their shields up, so any deflected blaster bolts would have roasted them.

- Because Grievous was going to whip out his blades, at the very least you think he'd step back so he'd be out of range. Alternately, because Grievous was taking so ridiculously long to whip out his blades (though I can accept that he's slower and that he changed his lightsaber fighting style because he was damaged) you'd think Obi-wan would have had the sense to decapitate him then and there.

I don't see how the duel between Ben and Vader relates to the one between Obi-wan and Grievous.

[Brickdoctor]

- Because Grievous was going to whip out his blades, at the very least you think he'd step back so he'd be out of range. Alternately, because Grievous was taking so ridiculously long to whip out his blades (though I can accept that he's slower and that he changed his lightsaber fighting style because he was damaged) you'd think Obi-wan would have had the sense to decapitate him then and there.

Probably done for the sake of the story. Every villain must monologue before the big fight.

[Fallenangel]

Probably done for the sake of the story. Every villain must monologue before the big fight.

:laugh: Hilarious spoof of the Prequels.

"No. You draw upon the power of the Force-"

"The Force?"

"The Force is an energy field-"

"Energy? But energy is force times distance."

"And 'power of the force' would be distance times the derivative with respect to time."

"<sigh> you're monks."

"Got it."

What's even funnier is that I'm more interested in hearing Qui-Gon talk about physics than I am of whatever he was supposed to be doing on the ship in the first place. Guess I'm just geeky that way...

Edited March 1, 2011 by fallenangel309

[The Legonater]

Probably done for the sake of the story. Every villain must monologue before the big fight.

I've heard of Darths & Droids, but never seen it. That's pretty hillarious, though.

[BrickArtist]

Brickdoctor is right, but I'll try and argue the in-universe case as well:

- It's been established in earlier scenes from the Prequels that battle droids aren't a threat to Jedi. The droidekas didn't have their shields up, so any deflected blaster bolts would have roasted them.

- Because Grievous was going to whip out his blades, at the very least you think he'd step back so he'd be out of range. Alternately, because Grievous was taking so ridiculously long to whip out his blades (though I can accept that he's slower and that he changed his lightsaber fighting style because he was damaged) you'd think Obi-wan would have had the sense to decapitate him then and there.

You see, this is what I'm talking about. It seems as though your acting like your opinion is the opinion, and not allowing the PT any benefit of the doubt, because you have already decided you don't like it.

Why go after this scene? as Brickdoctor said it was likely for story's sake. In-Universe though, I think even Obi-Wan couldn't take all those droids, magnaguards, and grievous all at once?!? The rate of fire on a droideka compensates for its lack of shields. Grievous and Kenobi wanted to settle it face to face, fair and square. And Obi executing him would violate the jedi code

[Sam Vimes]

Is it just me or is Mr Plinkett just plain out rude.

He makes my love of the prequels change me and makes me feel stupid for liking them.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Sam Vimes

[BrickArtist]

Is it just me or is Mr Plinkett just plain out rude.

He makes my love of the prequels change me and makes me feel stupid for liking them.

Uhm yeah-something tells me hes like living with his mom, with no life but making horribly disrespectful remarks about movies. And the random profane clips don't help him much eith( The cat bit at the beginning of part 2 of his Sith review )He also has little to no knowledge of the PTs story.

[Clone OPatra]

Uh… sorry if I'm just daft, but who's Mr. Plinkett?

And, no matter who he is, you shouldn't let him or anyone else make you feel one way or the other about your view on a film. It's whatever you like.

[Brickdoctor]

What's even funnier is that I'm more interested in hearing Qui-Gon talk about physics than I am of whatever he was supposed to be doing on the ship in the first place. Guess I'm just geeky that way...

Me, too! The great thing about it is that the author is a know-it-all when it comes to physics and RPGs, so it all comes together really well as a recurring theme.

I've heard of Darths & Droids, but never seen it. That's pretty hillarious, though.

You should go read the whole thing. It's awesome. And read all the Star Wars comics on Irregular Webcomic (same author) while you're at it. (those are actually done with LEGO, too)

Why go after this scene? as Brickdoctor said it was likely for story's sake. In-Universe though, I think even Obi-Wan couldn't take all those droids, magnaguards, and grievous all at once?!? The rate of fire on a droideka compensates for its lack of shields. Grievous and Kenobi wanted to settle it face to face, fair and square. And Obi executing him would violate the jedi code

Despite being an OT fan, I agree with you there. And I also agree that Sith is the best of the PT.

Uh… sorry if I'm just daft, but who's Mr. Plinkett?

I think he's this reviewer that fallenangel mentioned.

[Fallenangel]

You see, this is what I'm talking about. It seems as though your acting like your opinion is the opinion, and not allowing the PT any benefit of the doubt, because you have already decided you don't like it.

Why go after this scene? as Brickdoctor said it was likely for story's sake. In-Universe though, I think even Obi-Wan couldn't take all those droids, magnaguards, and grievous all at once?!? The rate of fire on a droideka compensates for its lack of shields. Grievous and Kenobi wanted to settle it face to face, fair and square. And Obi executing him would violate the jedi code

I didn't originally intend to use the scene to bash the story of the Prequels, just Ewan's poor acting in that particular scene. In fact, I believe you were the one who defended it with an in-universe explanation in the first place.

Wasn't the reason they sent someone to Utapau in the first place to find Grievous so that they could kill him and end the war?

Is it just me or is Mr Plinkett just plain out rude.

He makes my love of the prequels change me and makes me feel stupid for liking them.

Well come on, we've all felt stupid for liking Star Wars at some point in our lives.

Plinkett is the guy who did the Red Letter Media reviews for the Prequels. His reviews, as I said, have many valid points, but would have been better if he knew enough about the Clone Wars to avoid sounding like a complete idiot in the Sith review and if he didn't randomly interrupt with footage of some lady which he had apparently kept hostage in his basement. Plinkett didn't really change my opinion of the Prequels, he really just reinforced what I already thought of it (though there were points I disagreed with).

[BrickArtist]

I didn't originally intend to use the scene to bash the story of the Prequels, just Ewan's poor acting in that particular scene. In fact, I believe you were the one who defended it with an in-universe explanation in the first place.

Wasn't the reason they sent someone to Utapau in the first place to find Grievous so that they could kill him and end the war?

Because I thought that in-universe was what you were referring to. What would you have liked him to do? Stretch? The focus was on grievous, so Ewan didn't have much to do other than stand there.

Yes, however executing somebody is against the code. Also if you think about the cinematics of lightsaber duels, then grievous blocks Obi-wans strike with 2 of his blades, he has 2 more to jab into Obis chest. This is why he lets grievous have the first move, then when the opportunity comes he'll star cutting off arms to level the playing field.

[Clone OPatra]

Just so everybody can be represented and we keep the battle over which Star Wars is the best in this thread, I've added "EU" to the title and an EU poll option.

So, who's going to fess up first that they prefer the EU to all six films and the CW show? C'mon now, don't be shy!

[Fallenangel]

Just so everybody can be represented and we keep the battle over which Star Wars is the best in this thread, I've added "EU" to the title and an EU poll option.

So, who's going to fess up first that they prefer the EU to all six films and the CW show? C'mon now, don't be shy!

I don't think you can really represent the Expanded Universe as a single category because there are so many different contributors, all of who have produced works of varying quality. Besides, all the three factions in debate currently represent different parts of Lucas' Star Wars universe, and throwing Expanded Universe into the mix would ruin that.

[Clone OPatra]

Hmm, I see how you could take it in that direction. I didn't think of the three topics in discussion being in discussion because of them being George Lucas' universe, but that makes a lot of sense. I will eradicate my mistake, and I suppose EU discussion can just go in the thread entitled Star Wars if anybody wants to talk about it.

Leaving the poll option can't hurt, though.

[BrickArtist]

Doesn't this threaten the 'I like them all' answer? Because now all those members apparently like the, EU as well. I think this is something to do with the current films, and TV series. As that seems to be the focus here. I think that there isn't anybody who likes the entire EU, it's way to general. More general that making a poll option as 'Saga'.