JimBee Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Oh, yeah. Metagaming is like assuming that I'm bad just because my character has ridiculous taste. I've seen Hinckley posting about metagaming in Werewolf Mafia, so I thought it was okay? So you thought it was okay to follow Hinckley's example? But seriously, I did eventually give him a penalty vote for that among other reasons. I'm too nice of a guy to godkill. And here I was thinking that In role-playing games, metagaming can be defined as any out of character action made by a player's character which makes use of knowledge that the character is not meant to be aware of. (Thanks Wiki) If my character glances in your direction while speaking about disguises, that is not anything I cannot see or know about, and it does not necessarily mean that I think anything about your characters role. I fail to see how that is 'metagaming". Maybe I am just missing the whole point of this. It is a difficult subject to grasp, and the line between metagaming and not is never clear at all. Basically, on EB, metagaming usually refers to past mafia game experiences, specifically how a certain player acts. Example: Player X is quiet in Game 1, and turns out to be scum. In Game 2, X is quiet again, and is lynched because he acted like this in the last game and was scum. It's both illogical (roles and alliances are chosen randomly) and cheating. I'm sure several of the veteran players can tell you that they've been metagamed and lynched before. Also, it's a hard rule to enforce because it's not necessarily obvious when someone is metagaming. Hopefully I made that a little clearer. Luckily, though, it's not something you need to worry about for your first game since it's everyone's first time, and you don't know how any of them play mafia. EDIT: Captain Tamamono is right as well. Metagaming can also mean that you're basing opinions of roles/alliances based on how their character looks and is described. An example would be assuming that a character with the profession of a policeman has the role of an investigator.
Tamamono Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 So you thought it was okay to follow Hinckley's example? But seriously, I did eventually give him a penalty vote for that among other reasons. I'm too nice of a guy to godkill. It is a difficult subject to grasp, and the line between metagaming and not is never clear at all. Basically, on EB, metagaming usually refers to past mafia game experiences, specifically how a certain player acts. Example: Player X is quiet in Game 1, and turns out to be scum. In Game 2, X is quiet again, and is lynched because he acted like this in the last game and was scum. It's both illogical (roles and alliances are chosen randomly) and cheating. I'm sure several of the veteran players can tell you that they've been metagamed and lynched before. Also, it's a hard rule to enforce because it's not necessarily obvious when someone is metagaming. Hopefully I made that a little clearer. Luckily, though, it's not something you need to worry about for your first game since it's everyone's first time, and you don't know how any of them play mafia. EDIT: Captain Tamamono is right as well. Metagaming can also mean that you're basing opinions of roles/alliances based on how their character looks and is described. An example would be assuming that a character with the profession of a policeman has the role of an investigator. Oh, you're right... I suppose I shouldn't have taken an example from Hinckley.
Ricecracker Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Never. Actually, I single-handedly led the Town to failure by forming a voting alliance like we were on Survivor. Turns out the alliance was all scum. And no, I'm not talking about Bloodbrick. Not only Town! Need I remind you what would've happened had Roman Mafia ever continued? Example: Player X is quiet in Game 1, and turns out to be scum. In Game 2, X is quiet again, and is lynched because he acted like this in the last game and was scum. Might as well just use my name.
smittyfan Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Never. Actually, I single-handedly led the Town to failure by forming a voting alliance like we were on Survivor. Turns out the alliance was all scum. And no, I'm not talking about Bloodbrick. I can be an idiot. But I'm not a noob! Noobs! Ha ha! Look at the noobs. Just kidding. I love you all. I'd just rather poke fun and let Sandy run the school, since that's the way it's supposed to work. Have fun, and don't let the big bullies scare you. We're just insecure. Yep. Bullies just can't stand that us 'noobs' are better than them...
Dragonator Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 And here I was thinking that In role-playing games, metagaming can be defined as any out of character action made by a player's character which makes use of knowledge that the character is not meant to be aware of. (Thanks Wiki) That is entirely correct in any standard RPG, yes. And it applies to Mafia too. Your character wouldn't know that in the previous game, Shadows was scum and murdered everyone sneakily while remaining fairly inactive in the threads (just as a random made-up example). Thus, you may not use that information as justification for a vote against him. Similarly, as the roles are all assigned randomly and everyone should have an equal chance of being scum, trying to get someone convicted because they have a grumpy face is more likely to make you look suspicious than them, as it really isn't conclusive evidence. Although you are right that technically it isn't really metagaming, it's just ridiculous logic that should by all rights be shrugged off if it is ever raised. As with the example JimBee posted, it would be ridiculous to assume that the policeman is an investigator just because he is a policeman, but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible. That just isn't the reason for it, random probability is. Broadly we tend to refer to this as "metagaming" on EB, for the sake of convenience. However, we do encourage you to have a bit of fun roleplaying, so feel free to look sideways at people and make rude comments about their terrible choice in clothing, just don't expect to get very far if you try to use it as evidence for a vote. On another note, much of the confusion so far (editing, posting out of character), could easily have been avoided if you'd all read the damn rules. So read the damn rules!
Peanuts Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Player X is quiet in Game 1, and turns out to be scum. In Game 2, X is quiet again, and is lynched because he acted like this in the last game and was scum. It's both illogical (roles and alliances are chosen randomly) and cheating. I'm sure several of the veteran players can tell you that they've been metagamed and lynched before. Also, it's a hard rule to enforce because it's not necessarily obvious when someone is metagaming. Hopefully I made that a little clearer. Luckily, though, it's not something you need to worry about for your first game since it's everyone's first time, and you don't know how any of them play mafia. EDIT: Captain Tamamono is right as well. Metagaming can also mean that you're basing opinions of roles/alliances based on how their character looks and is described. An example would be assuming that a character with the profession of a policeman has the role of an investigator. I never thought about this as metagaming, I always considered this as a fair method of rumbling people. I thought metagaming was like "Player A *cough, cough* is always scum in those games, so let's kill him on day one", or by the scum, "In past the party of Player B *cough, cough* always used to lose when he died. And since he's none of us, let's kill him on night one." Disclaimer: Any references to actual mafia players are made by your paranoia.
Sandy Posted March 9, 2011 Author Posted March 9, 2011 I thought I made it very clear that everybody should read the rules carefully. I'm now forced to give everybody your first homework: read the rules again. It doesn't matter if you already know them by heart, read them again. RvB and Capt. Redblade, I will let you off the hook for editing this time since it's only the beginning of Day One, but from now on it should be crystal-clear that you may not edit your posts in Day topics. The next offender will get the 5-vote penalty once the voting begins (in 5 and a half hours). Lecture over! I don't know, I think it's okay if you post it in the crossed out writing. I've seen people post things like that in other mafias... I just forgot to add "smart girl" after the regulator part. Sowwy for my forgetfulness You are correct, it is alright for you to strike text out like that in-game, but out-of-character posts like "Captain Tamamono's character is a chic Italian chick, don't you think?" should be avoided.
Tamamono Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 I thought I made it very clear that everybody should read the rules carefully. I'm now forced to give everybody your first homework: read the rules again. It doesn't matter if you already know them by heart, read them again. RvB and Capt. Redblade, I will let you off the hook for editing this time since it's only the beginning of Day One, but from now on it should be crystal-clear that you may not edit your posts in Day topics. The next offender will get the 5-vote penalty once the voting begins (in 5 and a half hours). Lecture over! You are correct, it is alright for you to strike text out like that in-game, but out-of-character posts like "Captain Tamamono's character is a chic Italian chick, don't you think?" should be avoided. Yeah, I could definitely use a refresher in the rules.
Hinckley Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 So you thought it was okay to follow Hinckley's example? But seriously, I did eventually give him a penalty vote for that among other reasons. I'm too nice of a guy to godkill. What are you talking about? I never metagamed in Werewolf and I've never metagamed in any game ever. Seriously though, the penalty was for paraphrasing a PM from God and I I don't agree with the call. Of course, I'm obsessed with myself and think I can do no wrong. It's hard to call metagaming and it's hard to identify when you're doing it as well. It's also really hard to avoid sometimes. In Bloodbrick, Rufus asked me why I thought he was suspicious and the answer was because I caught him logging in as invisible. So, I answered his question honsetly not realizing what a metagame it was. Constantly killing Shadows is the same thing. I shouldn't do it, but sometimes it's just my default action.
Rufus Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 It's hard to call metagaming and it's hard to identify when you're doing it as well. It's also really hard to avoid sometimes. In Bloodbrick, Rufus asked me why I thought he was suspicious and the answer was because I caught him logging in as invisible. So, I answered his question honsetly not realizing what a metagame it was. The reason I (stupidly) logged on as invisible was because I knew I was being stalked - another metagaming tactic you might have been known to resort to, Hinck!
Pandora Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 What are you talking about? I never metagamed in Werewolf and I've never metagamed in any game ever. You also confessed to stalking me, don't forget, but then again, I rather liked it
Rick Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 He even stalks the people he trusts... During mafia games, his day-job is stalking EB members.
Hinckley Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 The reason I (stupidly) logged on as invisible was because I knew I was being stalked - another metagaming tactic you might have been known to resort to, Hinck! Be warned, people: I will stalk you and your spouse or other relations. I can find you.
smittyfan Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Be warned, people: I will stalk you and your spouse or other relations. I can find you. Maybe you're the one we need to lynch!
Hinckley Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Maybe you're the one we need to lynch! You can try that...
Peanuts Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Maybe you're the one we need to lynch! No need to lynch, he's never scum (except if he's converted).
Hinckley Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 No need to lynch, he's never scum (except if he's converted). Or it's Roman Mafia...
Peanuts Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Or it's Roman Mafia... Oh, didn't read that one, most propably because it wasn't finished. Was there any reason why you outed yourself on day 4?
smittyfan Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Was there any reason why you outed yourself on day 4? He had a dark secret he didn't want anyone to find out about... The dead don't talk.
Hinckley Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Oh, didn't read that one, most propably because it wasn't finished. Was there any reason why you outed yourself on day 4? Mafia was still new on EB, and nobody knew what an investigator was. I successfully convinced everyone that TPRU was lying and then he was revealed as the Investigator. I revealed myself because it was obvious I was scum and also, I could OINK at everyone. That's where that started. And I just like going crazy. Plus, I was able to throw some confusion out there and it would've been nice to see if my accusations would've gotten any innocents killed. It was a pretty exciting game, and it's too bad it was paused. A lot happened in just five days.
Peanuts Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Mafia was still new on EB, and nobody knew what an investigator was. I successfully convinced everyone that TPRU was lying and then he was revealed as the Investigator. I revealed myself because it was obvious I was scum and also, I could OINK at everyone. That's where that started. And I just like going crazy. Plus, I was able to throw some confusion out there and it would've been nice to see if my accusations would've gotten any innocents killed. It was a pretty exciting game, and it's too bad it was paused. A lot happened in just five days. I didn't read much of Roman Mafia, I didn't know TPRU had been an investigator, I just saw he told 'em to kill you. I rarely read through the elder games, they always seem like a whole mess to me (especially MC1).
Sandy Posted March 9, 2011 Author Posted March 9, 2011 The voting has now begun in the Day topic, and the game is on full speed. You can read further instructions for voting from the Day topic as well.
smittyfan Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Sandy, awesome narrative! Yeah, I think it's a great story.
Professor Flitwick Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 Sandy, awesome narrative! Yeah, I think it's a great story. Same here; I'm enjoying the parallels between this and Agatha Cristie's 'And Then There Where None'. Several strangers, stranded on a island... and thats when the murders start!
Recommended Posts