2012 Friends Discussion Thread

[vexorian]

Not at all.

It is more like BelVille with less articulation and cartoony (not creepy) faces. And slightly larger than a minifig, probably the same size as a 4+ figure.

Edited August 6, 2011 by vexorian

[jonwil]

I think the design of the figs is intended to draw from Bratz, Polly Pocket and other popular girls toys.

Would have been nice to see a minifig scale theme ala Paradisa but I think there are valid reasons why LEGO wants to market to girls with figures and accessories that are larger and more detailed

[Peppermint_M]

Well sure, its a little disapointing but if the focus groups declared this what they wanted/liked then this is what will be made. At least the scale looks a little like they'd combine the sets with regular LEGO.

We AFFOLs (I hate that acronym, ist like aaahfafaols) need to remember that we are far from the norm (hence the Lady tag to avoid generalisation) and even what we liked and wanted as children wasn't the same as our peers.

It is a giant mixed bag when it comes to kids even in LEGOs target under-teen boys. One boy will want lots of police and firemen and buildings while another would prefer to build an alien space ship. Some want Ninjas and some want Pirates. Harry Potter or Star Wars? The differences are endless.

My Mum is a somewhat typical adult but she very much enjoys my continued love of the plastic brick. However what she wants is City and Castle themed Lego. I recently purchased the Helicopeter and Limo set (£10!!) and she herself said that it looked like a "two book" set *hint* *hint*. A few days later on a quite evening she actually suggested that we should build the set together and so we did. She liked LEGO when her younger brother had it as a child(a sore point that may have instigated her non-conformist attitude to playtime with myself and my siblings). Her parents never twigged that LEGO can be a girls toy.

What my long and rambling point is: Maybe these buildable sets, although the figures are not Minifigs, will flag up to parents and small girls that LEGO is a good toy to play with. Then they might graduate to another theme and start really building?

[Mr Meleca]

They flew my brickshelf which is funny because all the other images from that site are still in my gallery. I would say that probably BS' admins didn't think it was LEGO or for some reason TLG worries a lot about leaks of this girl theme and not so much about CM.

Unfortunately, since I don't care much about them, I seem to have removed my images once I uploaded them to BS.

Can you please post it in flick or something lise that, PLEASE!!!

I just want to know if it fits for my daughter......

[Aanchir]

The studies are most likely the equivalent of making things up of thin air. I bet you that the same study would conclude the same thing about boys. The study probably also misses that the girls that like real dolls so much and skewed the statistics would probably just buy real dolls instead of construction sets.

TLG needing such a study is more of an indication that they don't have an idea how to get the female market.

I'd also bet that it is the dumb study that made TLG flop with things such as 4+ and Belville in the first place. The moral of the story is to disregard these studies.

One problem with this logic is that the same sort of studies would have been used for LEGO's other more ambitious undertakings-- for instance, BIONICLE. Replace "Girls" with "Boys" and replace "dolls" with "action figures", and the first paragraph could easily be seen as an anti-BIONICLE rant.

Claiming that TLG has no idea how to conduct market research ignores that market research has gone into most of their big undertakings, both good and bad. So if these studies were to be disregarded entirely, then TLG would never have released anything more unorthodox or ambitious than their classic bricks. No BIONICLE, no Star Wars, no Mindstorms, etc. I'm sure a lot of AFOLs would have been happy if this were the case, but as I see it that sort of attitude-- "market research is sometimes misleading so we must never trust any market research"-- would have led to the death of the company very quickly.

Frankly, if we can't trust TLG's market research, what can we trust? Your cynicism about this is not only unjustified, it's a completely infeasible way of looking at the situation.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Aanchir

[CaptainBermuda]

Well, you shouldn't get too excited about getting a ton of female figs, it'll probably be like belville with different kinds of figures

[Jedi master Brick]

All they are useful now is to be made fun of in one of our mafia games

[Sandy]

After seeing the figures, I have to say I'm hugely disappointed. Sure, little girls will probably like how they look, but how are they any different from all those figurine toys already out there? How can TLG even think of being able to compete with Polly Pocket and other such well-established brands with figurines that are basically copies from those brand? And I dare say that a Polly Pocket set costs only a fraction of what these new "Friends" sets will.

LEGO is all about building without limitations, and that's the main reason why it's among the leading toy producers in the world. Sure, you can build the sets in "Friends", but without customizable figurines, the sets will most probably not stand out for girls. It's common knowledge that girls love to swap outfits and hairdos for their toys, and with minifigs that would've been simple and easy. But somehow TLG neglected to use their biggest asset for this theme, instead offering updated DUPLO figures.

Alas, complaining about it won't change anything. I just still don't get what TLG was thinking with this theme, not at all...

All they are useful now is to be made fun of in one of our mafia games

Haha, that thought crossed my mind as well. How about a game of "Bratz Mafia", anyone?

[vexorian]

One problem with this logic is that the same sort of studies would have been used for LEGO's other more ambitious undertakings-- for instance, BIONICLE. Replace "Girls" with "Boys" and replace "dolls" with "action figures", and the first paragraph could easily be seen as an anti-BIONICLE rant.

Claiming that TLG has no idea how to conduct market research ignores that market research has gone into most of their big undertakings, both good and bad. So if these studies were to be disregarded entirely, then TLG would never have released anything more unorthodox or ambitious than their classic bricks. No BIONICLE, no Star Wars, no Mindstorms, etc. I'm sure a lot of AFOLs would have been happy if this were the case, but as I see it that sort of attitude-- "market research is sometimes misleading so we must never trust any market research"-- would have led to the death of the company very quickly.

Frankly, if we can't trust TLG's market research, what can we trust? Your cynicism about this is not only unjustified, it's a completely infeasible way of looking at the situation.

I doubt boys feel anatomically identified with Bionicle.

Precedents, precedents, precedents. I can't trust TLG's market research in the case of girl themes because their market research has always flopped in this market. The default should then be really not to trust them rather than to trust them. They have to earn their trust in this regard and they seem to have not done it. They can't even get the benefit of the doubt because what they are doing has already failed before. The new theme is on the inside still belville but with slightly better figures and belville flopped.

Bionicle is a valid risk to think because boys are already in the market range. With girls themes TLG are trying to get girls into the hobby, and I don't think that making figures that are visually and scale-wise incompatible with minifis will let the girls stay in their hobby. Bionicle has been bad at that with plenty of kids not even figuring out they are a LEGO product.

--

It is annoying that Megabloks seem to have a better handle in this. At least they know that if they are going to use figures different than their figures, it is best to use a license. The Smurfs and Hello Kitty are a lot more attractive than "Friends" because if you are going to have non-LEGO minifigures in a set, you may as well get famous characters that already have a girl following.

Edited August 6, 2011 by vexorian

[Brickity]

links are down/images removed!!

anyone save? I didn't get to see them yet.

Bonaparte: Pics removed on request of LEGO

Despite all the discussion made, and all the cons and pros, they're still pretty lame to me, but that's ME. Who knows what little girls will think of these, and if they get huge success, then there will be no reason for complaining I guess.

Couldn't find the other image of the handbags the chinese store had.

[Aanchir]

I doubt boys feel anatomically identified with Bionicle.

Never said they did. That's a different discussion entirely. All I'm saying is that BIONICLE catered to the audience that thinks action figures are "cool" just like so many LEGO girls' themes cater to the audience that thinks dolls are "cool"-- even if those two audiences think those things for different reasons.

Precedents, precedents, precedents. I can't trust TLG's market research in the case of girl themes because their market research has always flopped in this market. The default should then be really not to trust them rather than to trust them. They have to earn their trust in this regard and they seem to have not done it. They can't even get the benefit of the doubt because what they are doing has already failed before. The new theme is on the inside still belville but with slightly better figures and belville flopped.

You keep saying Belville flopped, and I still don't believe it for a minute. If Belville failed so grandly to return on its investment then there's no reason it would have been continued for fifteen years. Now, it's possible that it was a small enough investment (which explains the theme's limited distribution) that returning on its investment didn't require grand sales. Nobody can claim that Belville was an instant phenomenon like BIONICLE was, nor can they claim that it had as big an impact on the company as a whole that BIONICLE did. But I firmly believe that Belville was at worst an underwhelming success, because a true failure would result in net losses and quickly be discontinued.

Bionicle is a valid risk to think because boys are already in the market range. With girls themes TLG are trying to get girls into the hobby, and I don't think that making figures that are visually and scale-wise incompatible with minifis will let the girls stay in their hobby. Bionicle has been bad at that with plenty of kids not even figuring out they are a LEGO product.

Very true; I've seen BIONICLE fans and non-fans in the past who didn't realize the toys were a type of LEGO. The question is whether LEGO wants the theme to be a "stepping stone" to System building. That certainly did not seem to be their intent with BIONICLE. If the theme can survive on its own merits and generate profits (even small ones), then like BIONICLE it could still have the potential for success. Whether the kids realize they're buying LEGO when they invest in this new girls' theme is irrelevant if the theme can establish the same reputation for play quality that other LEGO products have with other demographics.

The fact that LEGO emblazons their logo prominently on all of their products these days rather than relegating it to a corner or the bottom of the package like they did with BIONICLE should of course make this a non-issue.

--

It is annoying that Megabloks seem to have a better handle in this. At least they know that if they are going to use figures different than their figures, it is best to use a license. The Smurfs and Hello Kitty are a lot more attractive than "Friends" because if you are going to have non-LEGO minifigures in a set, you may as well get famous characters that already have a girl following.

Do the Smurfs have a girl following? I guess that makes sense; I never really thought about what demographic was into the Smurfs. Regardless, though, consider that BIONICLE was in part introduced to capitalize on the advantages of LEGO Star Wars (the most story-based theme previously) without the disadvantage of licensing costs. And consider that other ambitious investments such as LEGO Mindstorms have done just fine without a restrictive licensing agreement (comparatively much better than LEGO Studios, which was almost entirely dependent on licenses).

Also consider that licenses aren't necessarily any safer than non-licensed properties in many cases. Ben 10 Alien Force catered to a far less risky demographic, and in general it doesn't bear the hallmarks of a successful theme. I think licenses are just as likely to be hit-and-miss as non-licensed themes, and the advantages of using familiar characters and stories is easily negated by the costs of the license unless the license turns out to be a "hit".

Despite all the discussion made, and all the cons and pros, they're still pretty lame to me, but that's ME. Who knows what little girls will think of these, and if they get huge success, then there will be no reason for complaining I guess.

Couldn't find the other image of the handbags the chinese store had.

Figs look nice in my opinion, but those pets are kind of gross. Thankfully, TLG has been very kind in recent years with animal molds, so it won't be a situation like Belville or Scala where many extremely useful animals exist only in this theme and not in System. The compatibility of hair molds is a definite plus, and I imagine accessories might be similarly compatible. Overall I feel this theme holds a lot of promise design-wise... as for its success, however, there are too many unknown variables to make a proper prediction.

[Tamamono]

Hey, thanks for re-posting the pics, Otherworld! Judging by the S6 pics that were taken by same person(?), the new 'figs are only a tad taller than traditional minifigures, so the sets probably shouldn't be too over-sized.

The figures aren't all that bad, and they're definitely a step up from Belville and Scala. The fact that the 'figs are comprised of four seperate pieces (hair, head, torso, legs) will most likely be a big selling point, as most little girls like to change the 'outfits' of their dolls. My only real complaint about them is that their hands (regular minifig hands) are far too big for the twig-like arms.

And if I'm not mistaken, the third figure's hair is the same as the S6 Spacewoman (S2 Pop Star hair in blonde), so I'm guessing that the hairpieces are compatible. That's pretty good news, but the hairpieces on the first and second 'figs fall to about their shoulders, so they wouldn't fit on traditional minifigures (no neck!).

[Darkdragon]

After seeing the images of the figures (which are meh), I am still excited about the theme. I feel that the sets and accessories should still be in scale for minifig - unlike belville sets (which are in scale with technic figures by the way). It's impossible to tell from the photos how big the cat and dog are, but they are kinda cute though look nothing like any other lego animals, they do remind me of Duplo and Scala animals.

As far as target audience, I know that my niece would LOVE these figures if there were a way to change the clothes (like Polly Pocket which she adored for years). If it's true that the headgear for minifigs is swappable for these figures then that is Great! If not, then I think it will be an issue for girls wanting to stick to playing with these figures, like others have mentioned - girls like to dress up their dolls.

Looking forward to the release of this theme even if we can't animate the figures because the legs are all one piece.

[muscleman]

thanks for the pics Otherworld, I think the hair and some others props are interchageable to minifig....uhmmm....so we cna have some more style or props?

[Gryphon Ink]

My response as an AFOL: BLARGHHH, it's hideous, so cartoony, why didn't they just use regular minifigs, this won't fit my fantasy kingdom at all, WAAAAAAAHHH!!!

My response as the father of two girls: WOW. I think TLG nailed it! I think my girls will like this, and I think if I hadn't already turned them both on to regular Lego building, this would have made an awesome "gateway drug" to the real Lego addiction. The figs are cute, they are not too wimpy like Polly Pockets or too slutty like Bratz or too revoltingly sweet like Strawberry Shortcake, and just from the three pictures posted here it looks like they will have some decent variety to them.

I think if they produce enough different characters and enough accessories, animals and settings for them, this theme could be a big hit and could indeed get Lego a strong toehold in the coveted girly market segment. Whether that will lead to millions more girls building regular Lego is entirely beside the point. This theme won't decrease the amount of regular Lego sold, so any extra sales are a bonus for TLG.

The scale does work. Yes, it's weird that they didn't just use regular minifig scale, but the difference seems to be about two plates or, or half a minifig head, give or take a couple of millimeters. These figures WILL be compatible with other System sets with only minor modifications needed. A CMF boombox will look good in a Friends figure's hand, and an Apple Tree House will only need a few extra bricks to become a rocking Friends party pad. It's not like certain other themes, where a *cough* Belville-sized housecat is the size of a minifig-scale panther.

As far as accessorizing, I have a suspicion Lego are going to make a LOT of different torsos, leg pieces and hairdos, as well as the obvious handheld accessories. You'll dress up the doll by switching her body parts.

And yes, those pets are ugly. But seriously, have you seen the latest reincarnation of My Little Pony? It's absolutely hideous. The ponies look like something Igor might have made on a slow day when Frankenstein wasn't around to stop him. They look like horrible mutant pony things rising up from the sewers to enslave humanity. And somehow, it sells. I think this theme will, too.

EDIT TO ADD: for the record, I personally wanted an exact minifig scale theme just like any other System theme, but with a "girly" direction somehow. Something more like Paradisa, except with sabertooth tigers. But history has already rendered a verdict on Paradisa. TLG had to try something different if they wanted to try this at all.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Gryphon Ink

[Brickity]

Uhm if you can change their hairstyles then it's not so bad at all. They can bring some good hairstyles for our system minifigs though these look really opaque. I remember some years ago when lego pieces were super shiny ;(

An example of an opaque hairpiece could be Bellatrix's hair. Compare that hairpiece with a black ponytail from the 1990's-2008. Sorry for going off-topic

Edited August 7, 2011 by Otherworld

[jonwil]

How do we know for sure that the headgear is compatible with system figs?

[Brickity]

How do we know for sure that the headgear is compatible with system figs?

I'm pretty certain they are. That blond girl has the pop star's hairpiece.

[Brickdoctor]

I don't think the headgear is compatible with normal minifigs. The heads are a different shape, and comparing the width of the head to the size of the 3x4 plate the fig is standing on, they're larger, too. These heads look about two studs wide.

[J_Bro83]

I think the compatibility on the headgear for these figs could go either way...yeah, that is the same hair as the S2 Pop Star, but I think Brickdoctor is right; those heads don't look like they have compatible dimensions with minis.

Lego might have just taken some of the 'headgear' designs and cut new molds but, from a business perspective, why invest in new molds when you can just use existing ones...

Gah, I wish some set pictures would leak so we could get more information

[Brickdoctor]

Lego might have just taken some of the 'headgear' designs and cut new molds but, from a business perspective, why invest in new molds when you can just use existing ones...

My guess is TLG had already decided to make the heads bigger so they'd appear more doll-like, and then when designing headgear decided to reuse the existing hair design both to establish a connection between these and normal minifigs and to cut costs, since this way they need only cut a new larger mold, no sculpting and/or intensive 3D CAD work involved.

[lightningtiger]

Why is it that a toy company with such good ideas.....still comes up with a turkey each year eh ?

I'm sorry but on viewing those images - no, NO, hell @#$& NO, I don't care what accessories they come with, what building sets they come with....this is failure, it's Speed Racer all-over again !

The animals shown are cute and perfect size for a minifig scale town, I hope ?

[jonwil]

LightningTiger, you clearly arent the target audience for these sets.

I am also not the target audience for these sets but I can see enough to know that they WILL be attractive to the sort of girls who like Polly Pocket, Bratz etc.

[Aanchir]

I don't think the headgear is compatible with normal minifigs. The heads are a different shape, and comparing the width of the head to the size of the 3x4 plate the fig is standing on, they're larger, too. These heads look about two studs wide.

As I see it, the heads look about the same size as minifigure heads. Compare the size of the hands (roughly one stud diameter/same size as a minifigure's hands) with the size of the heads. And consider that as many have observed, the blonde keychain fig has the same hair piece as the S2 Pop Star.

Also, I don't think we can yet declare that the hair pieces other than the pop star's can't work with regular figs. Glance at the fig with the brown hair, and look at how it seems to be "carved out" inside just like the Pop Star's. So it could potentially work on a minifigure. Less sure about the black hair since that doesn't get much bigger than a thumbnail and seems to come closer to the shoulders.

[Fugazi]

Well I'm not sure this thread is appropriately named anymore... City subtheme? In that case Belville was also a City subtheme, only with larger figs.

(Has there ever been a discussion about creating a Girl-oriented forum, including themes such as Scala, Clickits and Belleville? Just wondering...)

Anyway while I'm disappointed that TLG turned their backs to a minifig-based girl theme, I'm not entirely put down by the new look. I expect the minidolls to be very successful with girls -- they are appropriately sized for a satisfying building experience, while having more cartoony, curvaceous and proportional features than regular minifigs. Besides, the minidolls' size makes them easily mixed with minifigs if one wishes to. Not something an AFOL is likely to do perhaps, but it wouldn't be such a big problem for kids. Finally, I expect building sizes to be largely compatible between the two systems, which is a big plus over past Girl-oriented themes such as Belville and (gasp) Scala.

From the looks of the minidolls, could they have knee joints? That would be awesome. The lack of a wrist joint is not so cool though. One thing is sure, a fraction of AFOL will be happy to have the option of more naturally proportioned figs in a small scale. Yeah, I wouldn't mind MOCing for these figs, assuming that we get a good variety of body parts in due course (including male bodies).