Hello all

This is my first post.

I have started designing a 6W 'Australianised' Alco C636. The plan is to use power functions. A picture of my progress in SR3D Builder including the position of the IR Receiver is here

and the real ones for comparison (Courtesy of Pilbara Railways.)

Now my question is in regard to the pivoting of the bogies (trucks). I am after an experienced opinion here. Should I attach the front handrail to the bogie and have it all pivot or should I have the handrail fixed to the cab and have the lower half of the plough and knuckle move separately?

What would look best when the MOC traverses corners? Is it worth the extra effort to have the handrail maintain alignment with the cab?

Thanks

Glenn

Hey Welcome to EB!

I would love to see the rest in bricks. The model is very much like the actual thing.

Edited March 19, 201113 yr by Fuzzylegobricks

Wow, this is an outstanding project!

I like very much the lights under the main body, the front windows and the white/blue colors.

The real one looks beautiful ...keep on and share with us your progress!

What would look best when the MOC traverses corners? Is it worth the extra effort to have the handrail maintain alignment with the cab?

Great work so far. I really like the solution for the windshield. If it were me, I would have the handrail stay attached to the cab, and have the coupler and plow rotate. If you attach it to the bogie, I think will draw more attention as the handrail will change positions as the locomotive goes through curves and switches. The steps/ladders on either side of the platform could be attached to the bogie though.

Can't wait to see the finished product. It looks really nice so far.

-Elroy

Welcome 'Glenn' to EB, nice to see another Aussie here especially in the train tech area.

Your work so far is impressive, are you planning a brick-built one as well ?

Anyway, great LDDing and Brick On !

Great work so far. I really like the solution for the windshield. If it were me, I would have the handrail stay attached to the cab, and have the coupler and plow rotate. If you attach it to the bogie, I think will draw more attention as the handrail will change positions as the locomotive goes through curves and switches. The steps/ladders on either side of the platform could be attached to the bogie though.

Can't wait to see the finished product. It looks really nice so far.

-Elroy

Add another vote to this solution.

I think will be a fantastic MOC once completed.

Edited March 19, 201113 yr by mpec82

Great work so far. I really like the solution for the windshield. If it were me, I would have the handrail stay attached to the cab, and have the coupler and plow rotate. If you attach it to the bogie, I think will draw more attention as the handrail will change positions as the locomotive goes through curves and switches. The steps/ladders on either side of the platform could be attached to the bogie though.

Can't wait to see the finished product. It looks really nice so far.

-Elroy

Thanks for the advice. The handrail will now be fixed relative to the cab.

I discovered another problem this morning in that the roof was a few plates higher than other lego 6W trains.

I have now used cheese slopes to get the diagonal line between colours (5 plates as apposed to 6 plates). I managed to lower the roof line by at least two plates and the roof is now about the same level as the roof in the Maersk Train (From my calculations anyway).

I also realigned the windscreen mounting and managed to create a 0.25 plate offset that aligns the windscreen between the lower and upper cheese slopes perfectly. The last model had some fudge.

On another point

I have looked at a few PF MOCs and they all seem to have the motor pointing vertically down, and either attached directly to the trucks or the trucks pivot around the axle resulting in torque steer.

I have not seen anyone put the motor horizontal and connect the trucks through a universal joint to allow rotation. To me this seems a better solution and is what I will attempt with this MOC. [Edit: This idea has not worked for me as the longitudinal torque tends to want to tip the train on its side. Countering the torque by having an opposite sense at each truck only serves to lift the leading edge of the truck as it traverses a curve resulting in an instant derailment. From this little experiment, the best way to mount the PF motor I believe is through a 4x4 turntable with the motor still fixed to the truck to prevent torque steer. My model has now been adjusted accordingly. Hope this helps future builders out there.]

This may take me a while to complete at the rate I am going as I am a perfectionist. It just has to look right. The trucks are the next step. And I know they are going to be difficult.

Thanks everyone for your encouragement.

Welcome 'Glenn' to EB, nice to see another Aussie here especially in the train tech area.

Your work so far is impressive, are you planning a brick-built one as well ?

Anyway, great LDDing and Brick On !

Lightning

Yes I am a West Australian, but am living in the USA for now. I actually have a lego shop about 15 minutes away! You would never get that in Australia.

It will be brick built so I am trying to ensure all parts are available in their respective colours. When the LDD model is complete I plan to purchase the bricks and build it, hopefully finishing before I return to Australia next year.

Latest update below. The truck will pivot just above the lower lights (1 plate below the yellow handrail).

Edited March 23, 201113 yr by Glenn

What a gorgeous engine. Can't wait to see the brick version.

Hi, I'm me again ...your SNOT technique is awesome!

Can't wait 'till the end....

Another update with the Hi-Ad trucks built and put on

The middle axle is fixed laterally however all three axles are driven. I plan on putting o-rings (mentioned on RailBricks) on the outer wheels (not the middle axle) to give more grip, allow clearance for the lower plates attached to the bottom of the truck and also to hopefully allow it to corner reasonably well even with a fixed middle axle. Axle spacing is as close as I could get it.

The rear shot shows some of the internals and the universal joint that will provide drive to the trucks. There is still more work to connect the pivot point to the cab.

Also the roof is removable to allow access to the IR receiver and also to put in a Minifig as there is just enough room. You can see in this picture that the blue cheese slopes on top of the window are not physically connected but are trapped in the right position when the roof is in place.

How it should pivot

Still so much more to go!

Edited March 19, 201113 yr by Glenn

Now this look slike a great start! I can't wait to see the final result as well...

You know, the front of the loco kinda reminds me of the lunar lander. If you stick some rocket engines underneath it, could it fly? ;)

OK another question for the experts out there

What is a practical length of a MOC and what is a workable distance between the pivot points of the trucks?

The model in its current state will be 49 studs long (counting the studs on the handrail making it just under 400mm long) and will have a distance of 31 studs between pivots. Is this too long?

From my calculations the Maersk train is 37 studs. So at the current rate this MOC is going to be 33% longer again. Is it too much?

The length has been dictated by the fuel tanks as the curved bricks only come in 2x4 size.

Update: Somethings I just need to work out myself with real bricks. I found that 49 studs is definitely too long, whereas 45 studs brings down the pivot angles and I can still manage a reasonable fuel tank. The pivots are now 27 studs apart.

I also found that the trucks are going to be especially wide relative to the cab. I am thus considering widening the cab to 7 wide. Is this a good idea?

Progress so far

Thanks for all your help and encouragement so far

Edited March 20, 201113 yr by Glenn

I also found that the trucks are going to be especially wide relative to the cab. I am thus considering widening the cab to 7 wide. Is this a good idea?

Most people who build detailed trucks like yours also build 8 wide, since the trucks should be under the engine not sticking out. You seem to want to head in this direction anyway with your length. 6 wides involve many scale compromises but end up with easier to run models (particularly on the tight LEGO curves).

The trade-off with 7 or 8 wide is you end up building a much heavier engine. That's OK, and in fact done often, particularly with big steamers. Many of them use 4 XL motors so they can pull reasonable loads. A 7 wide base has its own problems, mostly due to the odd numbers, and how to get the motor axle hole centrally located, 7 wide cab on an 8 wide base is easier.

Most people who build detailed trucks like yours also build 8 wide, since the trucks should be under the engine not sticking out. You seem to want to head in this direction anyway with your length. 6 wides involve many scale compromises but end up with easier to run models (particularly on the tight LEGO curves).

The trade-off with 7 or 8 wide is you end up building a much heavier engine. That's OK, and in fact done often, particularly with big steamers. Many of them use 4 XL motors so they can pull reasonable loads. A 7 wide base has its own problems, mostly due to the odd numbers, and how to get the motor axle hole centrally located, 7 wide cab on an 8 wide base is easier.

Thanks peterab for those helpful comments. I am trying 7 wide for cab and base and I will attempt to make the hood 4 studs + 2 plates in width if that makes sense. I have about three quarters of the cab rebuilt in 7 wide and have made it a little higher to be more proportioned. Just need to finish the roof. I thought the SNOT techniques were challenging in 6 wide. It has no comparison to trying to do everything in 7 wide, so I see why 7 wide has its problems. Still I really don't want to go eight wide as I think it will look too out of place with standard 6 wide models, not to mention the expense and from what I have seen on the net they just don't look right on tight LEGO curves as you alluded to.

7 Wide progress picture

After discovering that my idea for driving the trucks didn't work I have decided to use 2 XL motors fro propulsion. This also meant that the trucks needed a complete redesign and the train had to grow to 8 wide. Essentially it has been completely rebuilt.... again.

It is however coming together nicely now and should soon be finished.

Latest Update is below

At this point I should also say thanks to the following inspirational builders of whom I have copied,modified and used in this build:

SavaTheAggie

Swoofty

Shuppiluliumas

wardlws

Cale Leiphart

Edited March 23, 201113 yr by Glenn

Another Update:

This locomotive is coming together now. Still have to do the left side of the hood but it will be similar to the right side which is now done.

In summary it is 8 wide with a PF XL Motor on each truck so it should really pull well I hope. It should be fully completed tomorrow and I will attempt to get some rendered pictures if I can work out how to do it. Current part count is 1320 so it will probably be above 1500 by the time it is all complete.

Here are the pictures

The IR Receiver is now acting as the exhaust stack and can be accessed to change channels by removing a roof tile. I don't intend on adding side rails at the moment but they can be easily incorporated in the future.

By going 8 wide I was able to insert the sand fillers below the windscreen. Number stickers will be used on top of the black slopes. (forgot to add the antenna for the hoses on the front, the rear has them attached however)

The rear of the loco. Note that there are two phases of this locomotive that I plan on building. This is the phase III version and is considered the zenith of the rebuild program. The photo in the first post shows phase II. There are only 4 locomotives in this fleet. 2 phase IIs and 2 phase IIIs. Again stickers will cover the black portions on the rear. There will be some pneumatic hose coming out of the two 1x1 Technic hole bricks on the side.

This undershot shows the location of the battery and by sliding sideways the 1x4x0.5 technic beams the red elements can be removed to allow the battery to be easily replaced. Also the truck design can be seen courtesy of Shuppiluliumas' method.

Can't wait to build this thing for real!

Does anyone have any suggestions for further improvements?

Cheers

Glenn

Edited March 24, 201113 yr by Glenn

Have completed the virtual MOC

Thanks for everyones ideas so far

Now for minor tweaks and improvements

This looks absolutely fantastic. I can't wait for the real life version.

This looks absolutely fantastic. I can't wait for the real life version.

I agree with Matt (Jaster). My only issue with it is jealousy!

This looks awesome.. being from Oz, I want one of these!

I have put some more pictures and diagrams on Flickr.

Thanks for everyones comments so far but I am still after some constructive criticism - This is my first train MOC and as such am rather inexperienced in how to go about building these things and knowing what works and what doesn't.

Glenn

Edited March 25, 201113 yr by Glenn

I am still after some constructive criticism

Sorry I can't help you...it's just splendid !

Thanks for everyones comments so far but I am still after some constructive criticism -

I'm surprised Jaster didn't mention it since it's his thing - the prototype doesn't have buffers so a custom plough might be better.

the prototype doesn't have buffers so a custom plough might be better.

I had considered that however as a late entry to the world of trains (Emerald Night) I am only really familiar with this new style of coupler and although I wish they didn't have buffers the shape of the plough and the enclosed magnet coupler make up for it in my opinion. I consider the buffers now just part of the LEGO DNA just like studs. I don't think they are that noticeable in the grand scheme of things. The new Maersk train has buffers too !

That's a good looking train, will you make instructions for it? The blue on the front is that the only part blue and all the rest is white it looks a bit plain on colour, but maybe that's just me. It would look good in real though and looks pretty long too!.

A great engine keep up the good work, Brick on!.

This looks absolutely fantastic. I can't wait for the real life version.

I like so much this beauty!