[MOC][WIP] X-wing version 9

[RileyC]

Im having a hard time looking at the ship in these pictures you have provided. Can you post some photos the whole ship so we can see how well proportioned it is? Thanks

[Fallenangel]

@ Fallenangel : you should focus on more obvious things first instead of pitnicking.

Here are few things I can see from the pics you posted in the first message :

- the way it is built seem very weak. :/

- too many studs

- get ride off these ugly and blocky engines

- a "plate" design is not viable in such a small model. Do it with solid bricks. Like other people did on the X-Wing you've shown.

Thanks Anio, and since so many people have commented on it I will go ahead and get rid of the brickbuilt engines (SNOT galore). I will also try and tile over the wings (as originally planned). Looks like I'll have to tear apart my other midi-scale set for parts as well...

But there is one thing that I cannot change regardless of stability, and that is the illegal SNOT construction in the forward fuselage because the hexagonal nose has stumped me since the beginning of this project (i.e . version ONE) and I finally got it. So I guess what I’m really asking is, how can I make tiles and bricks and such work with the SNOT nose (especially as it is now only three or four studs tall at its thickest point)? Or would I be compensating aesthetic quality for accuracy by doing this? Because to me this design looks really nice, even better than the plate construction in the rear did when I figured it out with version 8 (by the way, that has been improved as well – all I can say is it’s wonderful)

IMPORTANT EDIT : Fallenangel, please, keep in mind this golden rule : a Lego MOC has to look good, which doesn't mean that it has to be correct.

A good MOCer has to understand that building things in Lego requires to build things diffrently from what they are in reality. Not because the builder lakes skills or whatever. But because the model looks better with small Lego adaptations.

And what is hard for a MOCer or a set designer (who is actually an official MOCer ) is precisely to find these adaptations.

And other few word about the criticism : I do not think that Fallenangel is brutish or negativ. He is polite and express his feelings well, with pictures of real ship (studio model), etc.

BUT IMO, what Fallenangel has to understand is that this kind of criticism is not what MOCer are excpeting. Cause MOCers are not model maker (see what I just wrote above).

I remember having gone through this with you and the Slave I and you’re still right. That’s why dateman’s and Brucey-wan’s X-wings look great even though they’re both pretty blocky. I do understand what you mean about the LEGO adaptations, though I have to ask, how much do you "adapt" a model? Where's the limit? The thing is that there's a lot less to say about a model when you take the accuracy factor out. (I mean, you could almost say that 6212 is good!)

I know how you feel regarding imperfections, but I don't post every single version of an MOC, especially if I'm not happy with it. If I ever did something like that, it would be as a WIP thread for a single version.

Hmm... I don’t suppose KimT or KielDaMan could merge this as a continuation of version 8 then? (And by the way, it’s not every version, only the ones that are halfway decent, which are only from version 6 onward. Versions 2 through 5 are just )

I do strive for accuracy in shaping and detailing, but when it comes down to a small angle or measurement, I will always choose the better looking option over the more accurate but ugly one.

Yet you are supporting the illegal nose build...

Im having a hard time looking at the ship in these pictures you have provided. Can you post some photos the whole ship so we can see how well proportioned it is? Thanks

Was that a jab?

The nose section was really what I needed help on, so I only photographed that section; I didn't expect an outrage over studs and blocky engines. For now, while I rework the ship feast your eyes upon version 8 which has a squatter rear fuselage, skinny wings, a poorly integrated canopy, and a clunky nose and engines but is otherwise fairly well proportioned... it's also studded, but it's still the best one I've done. (version 7 was even more studded.)

[MetroiD]

Since you are keen on getting 110% feedback, here's my 2 cents - even though I wasn't personally required to comment (phew):

I only rarely glimpse at the SW forums because I am not and have never been a LEGO Star Wars fan. That said, I sometimes see MOCs that are totally creative / mind-blowing, regardless of one's liking for LEGO SW or lack thereof. I did end up checking out your thread though because I found it weird how someone could have come to version 9 (!) of the same MOC - and was wondering what your progress so far has been. I looked at those two photos, saw the way you seem to be telling off absolutely anyone who isn't waxing lyricals about them, and voted "Terrible".

In short, I'd much much rather stare at LEGO's X-Wing fighters than this one, if I had to. Obviously, you're a sucker for proportions and realism but you're definitely taking it all way too far. Swooshability and sleekness aside, this fighter simply looks too unfinished even for a WIP, period. I don't see the point in posting a WIP just to show the solutions you've come up with regarding how to get a couple of angles right - not when you react like you've been hit by a bullet every single time someone posts a suggestion on how to do things otherwise, dare I say, better. So if you wanted an honest unbiased opinion by someone who just appreciates the beauty of the models, there it is.

Now, regarding your comments - I don't know which would be the nicest way to put this, but perhaps you really need to step back, have a glass of milk and generally cool down. Your overtly negative attitude is not helping anyone around here - but that thing about "all Asians looking the same to some people" was by far the most pointless comment (to say the least) I've seen recently. I am an average "netizen" to whom most of this space stuff looks the same - but there are MOCs that totally stand out, which this one, at this point, does not. Your endless stream of negativity about it, however, definitely does - and if this average non-Asian netizen is absolutely offended by your comments, then I can only guess how the not-so-average guys around here feel about that.

[Anio]

But there is one thing that I cannot change regardless of stability, and that is the illegal SNOT construction in the forward fuselage because the hexagonal nose has stumped me since the beginning of this project (i.e . version ONE) and I finally got it. So I guess what I’m really asking is, how can I make tiles and bricks and such work with the SNOT nose (especially as it is now only three or four studs tall at its thickest point)? Or would I be compensating aesthetic quality for accuracy by doing this? Because to me this design looks really nice, even better than the plate construction in the rear did when I figured it out with version 8 (by the way, that has been improved as well – all I can say is it’s wonderful)

No. What you really have to ask is : Is the hexagonal shape the best way to get a nice looking final model ?

I remember having gone through this with you and the Slave I and you’re still right. That’s why dateman’s and Brucey-wan’s X-wings look great even though they’re both pretty blocky. I do understand what you mean about the LEGO adaptations, though I have to ask, how much do you "adapt" a model? Where's the limit? The thing is that there's a lot less to say about a model when you take the accuracy factor out. (I mean, you could almost say that 6212 is good!)

Arf...

Actually, it is very much a matter of feeling.

Cause the MOCer is an artist, isn't it ? ^^

Well, I'm gonna try to give some ideas (not necessarily for your current X-wing) :

- changing some angles to make the shape more aggressive, dynamic, to emphasize some key details/elements/parts of the model

- building things in a simple way is often the best way to get something sleek. No need to make something complex when something easy is enough. Try to build efficiently.

- working on the textures (with bricks and colors) to add some variations.

- and about big MOCs : for them to be good looking outside, they must first be well designed inside.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Anio

[lightningtiger]

Balance, yep a simple word isn't it.....a balance between what you want to create and what Lego will let you create....that's the way I look at MOC building....but what do I know I'm mainly a town builder.

Also everyone here knows that MOCing is an art form, here in SW we go from ACPin to Rook to Legostein....all take different approaches with their style of MOCing.....I guess to quote someone important in the SW world.....'From a certain point of view' !

Everyone builds to their own liking, some go SNOT, some all studs and others decal everything to the hilt......Brick On the way you want to !

[helicaon]

Since you are keen on getting 110% feedback, here's my 2 cents - even though I wasn't personally required to comment (phew):

Now, regarding your comments - I don't know which would be the nicest way to put this, but perhaps you really need to step back, have a glass of milk and generally cool down. Your overtly negative attitude is not helping anyone around here - but that thing about "all Asians looking the same to some people" was by far the most pointless comment (to say the least) I've seen recently. I am an average "netizen" to whom most of this space stuff looks the same - but there are MOCs that totally stand out, which this one, at this point, does not. Your endless stream of negativity about it, however, definitely does - and if this average non-Asian netizen is absolutely offended by your comments, then I can only guess how the not-so-average guys around here feel about that.

to be fair, he didn't actually SAY "all asians look the same" but to compare someone who isn't bothered by small differences between lego models with someone who lumps everyone different from themselves in one category is perhaps a little over the top, and could cause offence... However, I would have to say that I've never taken Fallen's comments as unduly negative, or plonking, but then I've never had to be criticised by him (although none of the other MOC'ers seem to have taken offence, only third parties...)

As far as only showing the relevant parts of the model, well that's fair enough, but if it IS a "version 9" then perhaps one pic of the whole model might have been helpful, to get some idea of the proportions, even if it IS only specific parts that comments and advice are being sought regarding...

[Brickdoctor]

Yet you are supporting the illegal nose build...

Because to me the hexagonal nose is something that is needed to capture the shape of the X-wing. Thin wings and big engines, not so much. And I had thought that you were going to tile it over.

[prateek]

Was that a jab?

How is that a jab? I think we need a full view of the MOC to really grasp what you're trying to do, since we can't really tell how it looks relative to the rest of the ship. I'd like an overall pic too, for that sole reason.

[RileyC]

How is that a jab?

that's what I thought too. I Was just asking for an overall picture. I think it would help me visualise the whole mod and I don't see how the back part could not be finished because this is version 9. I assume you have something decent there.

Okay, I'm just going to wipe this thread until something's actually built...

So why was this thread even necessary then if you are just going to kill it off?

Edited March 22, 2011 by Roncanator

[Fallenangel]

I really don't get why all these Fellows are bitching about my comments. Never mind.

@Roncanator: The model is in pieces so at the moment there is no 'overall' pic to speak of unless you all want to see a pile of plate constructions (which MetroiD obviously does not want to see. Eh, they're bred in captivity now*...).

I posted this as an unfinished MOC because I wanted help on the nose. I didn't really get what I wanted, but I did get a lot of other stuff, some of which was helpful, some of which was not. I think I'll just dig up the version 8 thread and put up the next set of pictures as WIP there once I'm finished getting rid of as many studs as possible. (Sure wish these damn tiles were bigger - everything falls apart whenever someone walks by it.) I thought the back part was finished too but it turns out the engines look ugly which of course means I've got to change them.

*If you've played Fusion you probably know what I mean.

Edited March 22, 2011 by fallenangel309

[BrickArtist]

I really don't get why all these Fellows are bitching about my comments. Never mind.

I posted this as an unfinished MOC because I wanted help on the nose. I didn't really get what I wanted, but I did get a lot of other stuff, some of which was helpful, some of which was not. I think I'll just dig up the version 8 thread and put up the next set of pictures as WIP there once I'm finished getting rid of as many studs as possible. (Sure wish these damn tiles were bigger - everything falls apart whenever someone walks by it.) I thought the back part was finished too but it turns out the engines look ugly which of course means I've got to change them.

Wow, this turned from a perfectly good WIP thread, to a bashing fallen thread. What's up with that? It seems as though all the fellows decided to whine about you and barely mention your model.

About the adaptations thing, I wouldn't call that the golden rule. Everyone has their own approach. Both fallen and me see it the same way-The best MOCs have the fewest adaptations. In others eyes, the idea is to make it appear as good as possible.

[Anio]

The best MOCs have the fewest adaptations.

Not necesseraly.

[BrickArtist]

Not necesseraly.

If you read my post, you'd read that that's our approach.

[KimT]

Wow, this turned from a perfectly good WIP thread, to a bashing fallen thread. What's up with that? It seems as though all the fellows decided to whine about you and barely mention your model.

Oooh time for me to step in here.

I doubt this was ever meant as a "Let's gang bash that poor guy!"

I agree that it went out of hand in some comments, but please don't stir up a "them versus us" thing.

I'll close this and let Fallenangel decide for himself wether he wants to reignite a previous topic or make a new one for this MOC.

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson here and that is that one has to be careful with what and how one writes on the internet.

We do not read any given comment the same way - so misunderstandings can easily occour.

Always keep a positive mind when reading and posting could reduce that somewhat and if in doubt, never hesitate to ask or send the member in question a pm.

Instead of aggressive defence - try with "Sorry, but I might have misunderstood the point of your comment in which you say that my behind is overly large, blocky and studded".

Got the picture? (and milk)

Feel free to discuss my comment and how to act in here in the Talk to the Star Wars Moderators and Regulator topic.