TLGs Quality Decrease

[Mr_Malfoy]

I would like to know why so many people HATE Chinese plastic. What's wrong with it? I have a bunch of the collectable minifigures right in front of me, and I do know about the arm and leg labels, but they seem fine to me.

[Aanchir]

I would like to know why so many people HATE Chinese plastic. What's wrong with it? I have a bunch of the collectable minifigures right in front of me, and I do know about the arm and leg labels, but they seem fine to me.

When Chinese minifigure parts first began to appear in magnet packs (as well as the first couple series of collectible minifigures) there were some serious quality problems. Some parts were milky or translucent, while others were just severely inconsistent. Unfortunately, many people immediately blamed Chinese production for the errors (just as some ignorant fans did even before Chinese production began) and now refuse to accept Chinese-made parts.

It's true that there are color quality issues in many Chinese-made parts even today. But in most cases, these quality problems are no worse than those that can be found in parts from any European production facility, and people just notice them more because they're already on the lookout for such errors due to the earlier, more serious Chinese part defects.

There are also other Chinese part issues other than color, of course. Although most of the collectible minifigures have amazing print quality, there are occasional flukes. Also, some of the new molds used in the Chinese facility (like the arm and leg molds you mentioned) have been observed to become loose if switched around between figs-- people aren't quite sure if this is a fault in the molds themselves having different properties or the plastic the parts are molded from. And a slight translucency still occurs in the legs of the collectible minifigures-- not enough to make an impact in most situations, but noticeable among the lighter colors when backlit.

The situation hasn't been helped by TLG's inconsistent responses to the problems. Originally, the statement made was that the Chinese plastic was from the same supplier as any other ABS, but the dye used to color the parts was from a local supplier. Later word emerged that LEGO had, in fact, been forced to rely on a local Chinese plastic supplier due to Chinese manufacturing laws that require a certain amount of material to come from domestic sources. Since then, LEGO has not given definitive feedback regarding whether the plastic is known to be different than that from their main supplier, or on whether the plastic, dye, or molds are responsible for flaws that have been noticed in Chinese-made parts.

Overall, however, I don't think it seems likely that problems like this will go without any attempts at a solution. After all, LEGO has a history of working to find solutions for known quality issues. And while they obviously can't move backwards to the days when they used pre-colored plastic granulate rather than a mix of colorless granulate and dye, they can work to find new solutions to the problems that emerge from the changes they have made so far. I don't expect Chinese production to end in the near future, however, and personally would be much happier to see LEGO work on solving the problems internally rather than giving up on that venture entirely and giving up all that they've invested in it so far.

[BrickArtist]

Thanks for the answer, Copmike! Just a quick question: Rubber SW minifig headdresses were also outsourced, why's that? Is that space related as well.

The most noticeable differences IMO are the less glossy appearance of the plastic, and the printing is as bold. Compare a collectible minifig with a new regular fig, the printing on the collectible typically looks weak, and faded. While the regular one is bold, and string.

[Aanchir]

Thanks for the answer, Copmike! Just a quick question: Rubber SW minifig headdresses were also outsourced, why's that? Is that space related as well.

The most noticeable differences IMO are the less glossy appearance of the plastic, and the printing is as bold. Compare a collectible minifig with a new regular fig, the printing on the collectible typically looks weak, and faded. While the regular one is bold, and string.

I'd say print problems in collectible figs are a lot less frequent than color problems. All of my collectible minifigures have high-quality prints, with the exception of the Lifeguard who looks like she could use another coat of yellow. My recent figs, such as the Hula Dancer, Sumo Wrestler, Geisha, and Artist all have incredibly high-quality printing, especially compared to minifigures from the 90s or earlier. So whereas color problems have been an obvious and frequently recurring problem, print problems have been minor and only occasional.

[CopMike]

Thanks for the answer, Copmike! Just a quick question: Rubber SW minifig headdresses were also outsourced, why's that? Is that space related as well.

Space meaning capacity? I´m not 100% sure but the answer I heard is that China has a good capacity/history of making such stuff AND that TLG need their capacity for other parts.

Because TLG is doing so well, they need all their current production capacity for the "first" line of products, meaning sets that goes out to all shops - the base of it all. The rest are divided into different segments, like the Minifig series that are non-core products. If the capacity is already taken, then it´s outsourcing that will do the trick.

[A2L]

Well at the end of the day is there any place where I can find a list of sets and the countries where they have been manufactured (as printed on the boxes)? This will be particularly useful for buying specific pieces from bricklink.

From my experience, I found most of the City sets manufactured in Europe, except the tow truck (can give set numbers that I have/seen, if anyone requires).

Planning to buy some minifigs of Indiana Jones and Prince of Persia. Can any owners of these sets let me know where the sets of the above have been manufactured?

The above may seem to be a digression but till I read this thread today, I was not aware that some bricks and parts were made in China. AFAIK only electronic components and fabric were. Today I checked Duplo boxes and they all (the ones I saw) had China as one of the countries listed.

As for decrease in quality, whether it is the "Chinese" effect or not is debatable. But yeah we do see that a lot of parts recalled across industries are made in China, even from companies that do seem to have very high QC process (read Toyota, Honda etc). Again in case of Lego I do not know how much info is in the public domain as to what is manufactured in China except the what is there on the company web site.

[Redjack Ryan]

Space meaning capacity? I´m not 100% sure but the answer I heard is that China has a good capacity/history of making such stuff AND that TLG need their capacity for other parts.

Because TLG is doing so well, they need all their current production capacity for the "first" line of products, meaning sets that goes out to all shops - the base of it all. The rest are divided into different segments, like the Minifig series that are non-core products. If the capacity is already taken, then it´s outsourcing that will do the trick.

Thanks, CopMike, for the excellent description about LEGO's production and manufacturing.

At one of the Brickworld conventions, I attended a quality control presentation by Bjarke (I hope I spelled his name correctly) from LEGO Quality Control who gave some very detailed explanations of LEGO's color process. As CopMike stated, LEGO has more than one manufacturer of the plastic (precolored) granules. In addition, many parts are made of clear plastic which is then dyed, and there are at least 2 manufacturers of this type of plastic color source as well. This is so LEGO isn't left in a difficult position in case of any logistics problems with any individual manufacturer.

I believe Bjarke also mentioned that when they test new pieces, they use red as the test color for mixtures as it's the easiest color to detect differences with the human eye.

[Aanchir]

Space meaning capacity? I´m not 100% sure but the answer I heard is that China has a good capacity/history of making such stuff AND that TLG need their capacity for other parts.

Because TLG is doing so well, they need all their current production capacity for the "first" line of products, meaning sets that goes out to all shops - the base of it all. The rest are divided into different segments, like the Minifig series that are non-core products. If the capacity is already taken, then it´s outsourcing that will do the trick.

Technically, when the Collectible Minifigures were first announced we were reassured multiple times that they were considered main-line products, rather than extended-line. Not sure if that's what you mean by "core products".

It should also be noted that LEGO does reserve its European production facilities (particularly that in Billund) for certain technically-demanding parts like BIONICLE parts. This may be why all of this year's Hero Factory sets, which utilize a new and relatively untested building style that relies heavily on ball-and-socket joints, are produced exclusively in European countries with no input from the Chinese or Mexican production facilities.

On the other hand, however, certain specially-painted parts like the Toy Story minifigure heads were produced in China, despite seeming fairly "advanced" compared to what LEGO had done previously. Perhaps these sorts of parts are made in the Chinese facility because they need more precise human, rather than machine, labor, and employee wages and benefits are less expensive in China?

Or perhaps, on the other side of the coin, this sort of new or untested production process is considered to need more strenuous quality control? People generally assume quality control is less strict in the Chinese facility, but it could be that the Chinese quality control department is instructed to be on the lookout for more obvious or serious quality issues (for instance, places where the process itself seems to be causing flawed products) and thus does not pay the same attention to small or subtle variations in color and texture. Or maybe the quality control department is just busier with these complex parts and can't devote the same attention to basic minifigure elements.

There's a lot of unknowns in this, and I really wish LEGO would give us a more complete picture of what's going on and causing so much unease about Chinese-made parts. But then again, perhaps the reason they haven't been able to tell us the full story is because they're still trying to figure it out themselves, and don't want to try reassuring the fans until they are confident that they have things rolling as they should once again. One can only hope that this is the reason, and not that they simply fail to recognize that we fans need feedback on this issue.

[hanzocloud]

quality of lego is definitely decreasing!!.. i bought over 100 black slopes (4x3) to use as roofs for my custom building of a house, and those pieces couldn't even be used next to my existing same pieces as the paint is soooooo off !!! it is a cheap smooth shiny look instead of a clean rough matt look, and clearly there is a lack of quality assurance in this particular piece !!!!.

[brickmack]

quality of lego is definitely decreasing!!.. i bought over 100 black slopes (4x3) to use as roofs for my custom building of a house, and those pieces couldn't even be used next to my existing same pieces as the paint is soooooo off !!! it is a cheap smooth shiny look instead of a clean rough matt look, and clearly there is a lack of quality assurance in this particular piece !!!!.

If I remember correctly, LEGO has had a lot of problems before with the slope parts, specifically with the "bumpiness" on the sloped part. This isn't really a particularly new problem, but LEGO usually fixes these types of problems quickly.

[CP5670]

Well, "quickly" means two years in this case. Although I'm surprised TLG would still have black smooth slopes in circulation, unless you got them from Bricklink. The smooth slopes occasionally still appear in less common colors, but I haven't seen black ones in a while.

[hanzocloud]

Well, "quickly" means two years in this case. Although I'm surprised TLG would still have black smooth slopes in circulation, unless you got them from Bricklink. The smooth slopes occasionally still appear in less common colors, but I haven't seen black ones in a while.

it was purchased directly from the LEGO official website from pick a brick section in March of this year. So I guess the problem remains for lego.

[hanzocloud]

it appears that Quality Assurance is not something Lego takes seriously now days, check this new Lego catalogue I picked up from Toys'r'us.

The cover:

Do you know them all? Yes we know them all but Lego doesn't seem to!! lol

Lego thinks Anakin is Obi, and Obi is Anakin !!

And it's Han Solo not Hans Solo.....

[LEGO Shop Girl]

it appears that Quality Assurance is not something Lego takes seriously now days, check this new Lego catalogue I picked up from Toys'r'us.

Just like to point out that the Production Department, and the Advertising and Printing Departments are not intertwined.

On that note last month when PotC was coming out LEGO Brand Retail had three different release dates for the sets; the date printed on the In-store Events calendars, the official country by country release date emailed to every store globally, and the date of actual product arrival; the last being the date we ended up having to go by simply because we can't shelve what we don't have in stock, meanwhile our local TRU had them a week ahead of our earliest release date.

As to quality control; my biggest personal gripe isn't with the colors it's with the quantity; I have to refer at least a dozen customers to the "missing bricks" link on the LEGO website during an average 8 hour shift.

And why the heck do the faces on my keychains only last a max of 6 months before they fade away? Poor Doby was blind after about 2 months of being on my keys.

Edited May 15, 2011 by LEGO Shop Girl

[brickmack]

Well, "quickly" means two years in this case. Although I'm surprised TLG would still have black smooth slopes in circulation, unless you got them from Bricklink. The smooth slopes occasionally still appear in less common colors, but I haven't seen black ones in a while.

I've gotten a few sets recently that had the smooth slopes still. Personally I like the smooth ones better since the bumps look kinda odd to my when I look close at my space stuff, but it's annoying that LEGO keeps having that problem.

[vexorian]

Slopes are painted?

[Blondie-Wan]

And why the heck do the faces on my keychains only last a max of 6 months before they fade away? Poor Doby was blind after about 2 months of being on my keys.

Keychains (LEGO and non-LEGO alike) tend to take lots of abuse just being kept in pockets, purses, etc. for hours at a time, and going into and out of said pockets. I haven't actually used any of my LEGO keychains as keychains for this very reason; pretty much all the many keychains I've ever had wind up losing attachments and so on over time, losing paint / finishes, etc. I'd think it would be very hard for LEGO to make a keychain that could retain its printing (and even its parts) with regular usage as a keychain for more than a relatively short period (for one thing, unless you put some sort of small bag or something over the brick or minifigure that keeps it from touching the chain, the ring and the keys, it's going to be constantly rubbing and impacting against all those pieces of metal, which can't be good for printed plastic).

[hanzocloud]

Heres an email i got from LEGO regarding the slippery shiny roof slope piece.. Apparently they say it's not a defect or inferior quality, but that it is actually meant to be like that..

"We are so sorry for the inconvenience with the different finishes of your roof tiles. We certainly understand how important it is with models to have the bricks look as similar as possible. We would like to let you know the reason that you have experienced this is that we actually have changed a part of how we produce the roof tile. The roof tile themselves are produced exactly the same way, however we did make an update to the finish that we use on these tiles, that ís why some of the bricks you have received have one finish and some have the other, rather than it being that the quality of the bricks is different."

now having read that, i still think it's just a coverup.. as the shiny finish one in itself, even if not compared to the other one, is inferior quality in itself, as the shine isn't spread evenly, and you can always see some sort of U shape on the toof tile, as if it was not painted/sprayed properly kind of look.

[benhead]

So its not just me!I have noticed how cheap the quality is in the minifigure theme.I have a few that still have extra flash on the seems.