Star Wars: The Clone Wars - Season 4 Discussion

[The Legonater]

Yet another reason TCW shouldn't be considered canon. Unless someone managed to clone Maul, then this may effectivly trump Lucas and Filoni ruining Mandolorians as the stupidest thing they've done thus far.

[Peanuts]

To be frank, I myself don't care how they explain Maul's surviving. There are several easy ways to bring a character back to live, as they already said in the article, Vader/Anakin also sorta survived a situation nobody should be able to survive. And didn't Luke on Bespin fall really deep, but didn't take any harm? And Anakin fell in Episode II out of a Speeder before being caught after a deep fall? Or you could have cloned him, ten years should be enough for that. And it doesn't have to be a reactor he fell into, it could have been some random bottomless pit (and to be honest, which megablucking architect puts a reactor near a royal palace? And why does a reactor include a deep pit?).

I think, my problem is that they can have plenty of great storylines, they can do lots of things that are somehow logical, they can do episodes about Anakin's turn to the dark side, about Palpatines masterplan, or just a story about heroic victories of the Republic over the evil CIS (), they could just develope their characters, letting them face moral dilemmas or even something profound as the Mortis Arc (which IMHO wasn't that bad. It wasn't quite what you expect from the show, but it wasn't really bad). But no, they completely ignore the viewers' wishes and do stuff like the Droids two-parter and the Savage Opress/Darth Maul arc.

But I still hope they'll bring the good stuff later in the season. I really do.

By the way, has anyone else had the feeling, that Filoni was trying to say "I didn't intend to bring him back, it was all Lucas' idea." in a very subtle way?

[The Legonater]

And didn't Luke on Bespin fall really deep, but didn't take any harm? And Anakin fell in Episode II out of a Speeder before being caught after a deep fall? Or you could have cloned him, ten years should be enough for that. And it doesn't have to be a reactor he fell into, it could have been some random bottomless pit (and to be honest, which megablucking architect puts a reactor near a royal palace? And why does a reactor include a deep pit?).

By the way, has anyone else had the feeling, that Filoni was trying to say "I didn't intend to bring him back, it was all Lucas' idea." in a very subtle way?

Luke was caught by vents, or something like that, which severely decreased the injury of the fall. As for Anakin, it's a well-established fact that he has a higher midchlorian count, thus making him better in the Force, and thus able to survive the fall. And the room is called the reacter room in so many places it'd be a crime for TCW to change it to soemthing else.

As for that last point, that makes a lot of sence. It seems to me that Filoni has an idea of what the fans want- it was his dieas, after all, to include the RCs, Mandos and the like. Lucas seems to be the one that's been messing things up, however, and it seems the more control he ahs over TCW, the worse it gets.

[Fallenangel]

I must be the only one around here who is REALLY EXCITED FOR MAUL TO RETURN! I mean, he was the most badass of all of Sidious's apprentices, and as they said in that article, he was really underused in TPM.

I wish Lucas had thought of this before he made Attack of the Clones...

[Brickdoctor]

I wish Lucas had thought of this before he made Attack of the Clones...

Agreed.

Though I don't think Maul would fit well into the diplomatic role Dooku has, which would mean another Dark Jedi character to fill that role. If nothing else, Maul's death and Dooku's fall to the Dark Side showed that Sith apprentices are replaceable, backing up Palpatine's invitation to Luke to replace Vader during Jedi.

[Fallenangel]

Though I don't think Maul would fit well into the diplomatic role Dooku has, which would mean another Dark Jedi character to fill that role. If nothing else, Maul's death and Dooku's fall to the Dark Side showed that Sith apprentices are replaceable, backing up Palpatine's invitation to Luke to replace Vader during Jedi.

That really brings up the question of whether or not the entire political situation with Dooku was necessary. At the time of Menace, Palpatine and the Emperor had not yet become the same person, so it’s entirely possible that the whole political ordeal could have been taken differently. And since Lucas hadn’t allowed elaboration on the outbreak of the Clone Wars at the time, the idea of the clone army could have been similarly avoided.

[Brickdoctor]

That really brings up the question of whether or not the entire political situation with Dooku was necessary. At the time of Menace, Palpatine and the Emperor had not yet become the same person, so it’s entirely possible that the whole political ordeal could have been taken differently. And since Lucas hadn’t allowed elaboration on the outbreak of the Clone Wars at the time, the idea of the clone army could have been similarly avoided.

I don't see Maul as the kind of character who would unite the Separatists, and having Dooku (or someone else) do it instead of Palpatine further establishes the latter's position of the master manipulator who simply moves all his pieces around instead of doing most of the things himself.

Though Palpy did assume that role during Menace, when Maul was the apprentice and Dooku wasn't Sith.

[Oky]

to be honest, which megablucking architect puts a reactor near a royal palace? And why does a reactor include a deep pit?

Who knows. Heck, Palpatine had one of those right in his throne room! And the architect of the first Death Star included an exhaust port that served as a self-destruct button. Good architects must be REALLY hard to come by in the SW universe...

[Mr Man]

I must be the only one around here who is REALLY EXCITED FOR MAUL TO RETURN! I mean, he was the most badass of all of Sidious's apprentices, and as they said in that article, he was really underused in TPM. I believe that if they have a believable way for him to return, this will become one of the best stories in all the Clone Wars series.

No I really cant wait for a decant looking storyline. If Maul is every bit as good as he was in PM than this will be great, no matter what method he used to come back from the dead.

Thinking up a story line where Maul, Savage, Ventress all escape the war and Sith attack Darth Krayt's Empire to death .

[Darth Nihilus]

No I really cant wait for a decant looking storyline. If Maul is every bit as good as he was in PM than this will be great, no matter what method he used to come back from the dead.

Thinking up a story line where Maul, Savage, Ventress all escape the war and Sith attack Darth Krayt's Empire to death .

Three things:

1. No one, not even Palpy, could live from 19 BBY to somewhere around 200 ABY.

2. You really think that Ventress is going to forgive Savage?

3. Ventress is going to fight Grievous, and thus get Lucas an easy way out of one of the characters that he doesn't need. By making her die at the hands of Grievous, he not only makes Grievous look badass, but also makes sure that he doesn't need to tie up her story.

[Brickdoctor]

1. No one, not even Palpy, could live from 19 BBY to somewhere around 200 ABY.

That's exactly what Krayt himself did. Vong biotechnology or something.

Besides, you're forgetting clones.

[Darth Nihilus]

That's exactly what Krayt himself did. Vong biotechnology or something.

Besides, you're forgetting clones.

WTF?

I didn't know Krayt did that. (Then again, I never read the comics.) And in the eloquent words of General Rahm Kota:

"No one can clone Jedi, it's never been done."

Don't you think that if Ventress, Savage, and Maul had been cloned, they would go because of the snippets of memories? That's what happened to all the Starkiller clones except for the Dark Apprentice. And don't say that its some Zabrac skill to not be bothered by haunting memories, because Maulkiller ( ) went crazy too.

[Peanuts]

WTF?

I didn't know Krayt did that. (Then again, I never read the comics.) And in the eloquent words of General Rahm Kota:

"No one can clone Jedi, it's never been done."

Don't you think that if Ventress, Savage, and Maul had been cloned, they would go because of the snippets of memories? That's what happened to all the Starkiller clones except for the Dark Apprentice. And don't say that its some Zabrac skill to not be bothered by haunting memories, because Maulkiller ( ) went crazy too.

What about Joruus C'Baoth and Luuke Skywalker? I believe the Thrawn trilogy is the best precedent for what happens if you clone a Jedi, just because it's what the whole EU is based on, and it belongs to the in my opinion very small number of EU stuff that's worth relying on. They didn't really go crazy, rather simply dark. Although EU precedents don't bother Lucas in any way.

Wait, I just noticed that's not about Lucas. But it might still work. According to EU, Palpi was cloned as well.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Peanuts

[Brickdoctor]

Yeah, there are plenty of cloned Force users. And if they do all fall to the Dark Side, then it's just another reason Sith are more likely to do it.

[Jedi master Brick]

The arichtects were not that bad . Were else do you put the reactor, the palce is massive and contains a hanger. Also for the death star I bet Darth Vader did not have to put up with local planning laws so health and safty could go amiss

[Mr Man]

Three things:

1. No one, not even Palpy, could live from 19 BBY to somewhere around 200 ABY.

2. You really think that Ventress is going to forgive Savage?

3. Ventress is going to fight Grievous, and thus get Lucas an easy way out of one of the characters that he doesn't need. By making her die at the hands of Grievous, he not only makes Grievous look badass, but also makes sure that he doesn't need to tie up her story.

Well I was having a little joke playing at silly fanfiction writers, but OK .

[Brickdoctor]

The arichtects were not that bad . Were else do you put the reactor, the palce is massive and contains a hanger. Also for the death star I bet Darth Vader did not have to put up with local planning laws so health and safty could go amiss

That's the point. There shouldn't be a giant reactor with a big pit emitting energy so great at times that seven force fields are used to block off said pit right next to the palace.

The first Death Star's exhaust port was explained in the book Death Star. It was going to be changed by the architect, but a miscommunication with a Wookiee and a revolt on the Death Star resulted in the port being built that way.

[Darth Nihilus]

What about Joruus C'Baoth and Luuke Skywalker? I believe the Thrawn trilogy is the best precedent for what happens if you clone a Jedi, just because it's what the whole EU is based on, and it belongs to the in my opinion very small number of EU stuff that's worth relying on. They didn't really go crazy, rather simply dark. Although EU precedents don't bother Lucas in any way.

Wait, I just noticed that's not about Lucas. But it might still work. According to EU, Palpi was cloned as well.

You are contradicting yourself. According to Lucas, that is not true. But, also according to Lucas, TFU II is true. As much as I hate to say it, Ventress, Savage, and Maul living that long is impossible.

Besides, Vader had to have had some of Maul's DNA to make Maulkiller ( ), and what better way to get it than to kill him and keep the body? I'm assuming Anakin gives in to his rage and beheads Maul, then keeps some body part of Maul as a trophy. That would explain Maulkiller ( ), and get rid of a character that they shouldn't have brought back in the first place.

[Brickdoctor]

You are contradicting yourself. According to Lucas, that is not true. But, also according to Lucas, TFU II is true. As much as I hate to say it, Ventress, Savage, and Maul living that long is impossible.

We're not saying they will live that long or that Lucas wants to make them and/or will make them live that long. We're saying that it is canonically biologically possible for them to live that long. It's not unprecedented for a humanoid Force user to live 200+ years. Whether Lucas likes it or not, at this time, the Legacy series is considered canon.

[Tanma]

Three things:

1. No one, not even Palpy, could live from 19 BBY to somewhere around 200 ABY.

Yoda lived to be 900, and hutts can live to be a few thousand years old. What is so impossible about a few hundred years?

[Peanuts]

You are contradicting yourself. According to Lucas, that is not true. But, also according to Lucas, TFU II is true. As much as I hate to say it, Ventress, Savage, and Maul living that long is impossible.

I'm just saying you can clone a Jedi so that he'll keep his sanity and stays a Jedi. Also, aren't video games considered C-canon, or at least less canon than books or something like that? Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

[Brickdoctor]

I'm just saying you can clone a Jedi so that he'll keep his sanity and stays a Jedi. Also, aren't video games considered C-canon, or at least less canon than books or something like that? Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

C-canon, or Continuity Canon, includes all books and video games that aren't in one of the other categories. (not considered Non-canon, not from the period of publication that comprises S-canon, not in CW [T-canon], and not in movies [G-canon]) Force Unleased, Legacy, and the Thrawn Trilogy can all be considred C-canon. Video games are a special case in that generally, only the primary storyline is considered canon, and many objects and actions are only game mechanics. (in TFU's case, there are novels and comics telling the same story as the game, cementing the story's position as C-canon)

[Peanuts]

C-canon, or Continuity Canon, includes all books and video games that aren't in one of the other categories. (not considered Non-canon, not from the period of publication that comprises S-canon, not in CW [T-canon], and not in movies [G-canon]) Force Unleased, Legacy, and the Thrawn Trilogy can all be considred C-canon. Video games are a special case in that generally, only the primary storyline is considered canon, and many objects and actions are only game mechanics. (in TFU's case, there are novels and comics telling the same story as the game, cementing the story's position as C-canon)

Ah, thank you. For some reason I was in the belief games were less canon than books.

[Brickdoctor]

Ah, thank you. For some reason I was in the belief games were less canon than books.

Not that that would be a bad thing.

[Darth Nihilus]

I'm just saying you can clone a Jedi so that he'll keep his sanity and stays a Jedi. Also, aren't video games considered C-canon, or at least less canon than books or something like that? Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Ah, but Darth Lucas announced that both the dark side ending of TFU and the light side ending of TFU 2 are something like the same canon as TCW. Then again, I read that on Wookiepedia, and sometimes their info is less than accurate.