A matematical puzzle for SNOTing

[Legoist]

Hello,

I'm trying to integrate a certain written sign into a wall of bricks. The letters themselves are all 2 bricks wide, but to fit the whole sign into the wall I had to minimize the space between letters, hence I used SNOT and put a single (90deg-rotated) tile between them. There is a total of 5 tiles, which correspond to a length of 2 bricks, so the total horizontal length is an integer number of studs (14)... fine!

Now the problem left is that the letters in between (i.e. all letters except the first and the last) cannot be attached to the 14 bricks below or above the whole sign because their studs positions are not aligned with any of those 14 bricks. Jumper plates could achieve a shift of 1/2 brick width, but neither this is aligned with those inner letters which have a relative shift of 2/5, 4/5, 6/5 (=1/5), and 8/5 (=3/5).

Is there a way to solve this problem?

I can try to provide some pictures if my explanation is not understandable

[Rufus]

I can't see an easy solution without having the middle letters and tiles all loose (not attached to anything). You might be better off starting afresh and making the whole sign SNOT.

One possibility is to use clips attached to bars or aerials behind the letters (like in the signs of the Fire Brigade and Pet Shop modular sets) but this will require your wall to be deeper.

I'm more intrigued by how you managed to make letters that are only two studs wide - there aren't many letters that can be formed that way - C, E, F, J, L, S, Z are the only possible ones I can see

[Legoist]

I'm more intrigued by how you managed to make letters that are only two studs wide - there aren't many letters that can be formed that way - C, E, F, J, L, S, Z are the only possible ones I can see

You'll see the result when I post it, if I manage to solve this puzzle.

But I can give you a good hint, the key piece for a few more letters (note that they are lowercase letters):

[legolijntje]

A picture would be fine

[Ralph_S]

The solution is not to try to attach the tiles to the letters to the top and bottom. Instead you can using a headlight brick or a 1x1 brick with a stud on one side to attach the tiles between the letters to one of the letters on either side and to attach the letters themselves to a rod or piece of flex-tube that runs along the length of the sign at the back. That will allow you to space them evenly. Alternatively, depending on what letters you used, you might want to look into full blown SNOT lettering, where the letters are actually attached to each other.

Good luck!

Ralph

[Legoist]

The solution is not to try to attach the tiles to the letters to the top and bottom. Instead you can using a headlight brick or a 1x1 brick with a stud on one side to attach the tiles between the letters to one of the letters on either side...

Yes, I am already using the 1x1 + side stud for this. But then the tile attaches only to one side so it won't help with the loose letters.

...and to attach the letters themselves to a rod or piece of flex-tube that runs along the length of the sign at the back. That will allow you to space them evenly.

This is a good idea, thanks! I can use 1x1 tiles with an attached ring, directed towards the back of the wall. If I manage to put these at the same level, the loose letters can be kept somehow fixed by the rod attached to the stable letters.

Alternatively, depending on what letters you used, you might want to look into full blown SNOT lettering, where the letters are actually attached to each other.

These look great although it's not very visible how they are done.

If anybody is interested, I can post a picture of my "fonts" used for this small project.

[Legoist]

A picture would be fine

I quickly made a small picture in MLCAD to show the pattern of sizes: each letter is 2 bricks wide (black), the separator tiles (red) will be attached by a brick with 1 sideway stud from either side, the plate at the bottom (blue) is just for reference showing that the total length should end up being 14.

So you can see here the problem I mean: letters #2-#5 are misaligned to anything below or above the whole word.

[Legoist]

Damn... I started this project in MLCAD and because of that I forgot that when you attach a plate/tile to one of those 1x1 bricks with side stud, they don't align with the bottom of the bricks They are higher, just like when you attach them to a headlight brick. This means the whole project needs to be reconsidered...

[legolijntje]

You can also use sr3d builder in future, it's a mix between ldd and mlcad. It's easy to leard and simple to use

But back on topic...

Edited May 14, 2011 by legolijntje

[davee123]

when you attach a plate/tile to one of those 1x1 bricks with side stud, they don't align with the bottom of the bricks

They do when you use the headlight bricks back-side down!

There are so many ways to do this that it's difficult to provide advice without knowing very very explicitly what you're doing. But there are a lot of workarounds using SNOT!

DaveE

[Legoist]

They do when you use the headlight bricks back-side down!

Good point, but then it adds 1/6 to the horizontal length, messing up the other direction, doesn't it?

Anyway, below is the sign I'm trying to design. The idea is to integrate this on the sides of a locomotive, so there is some room to add stuff in the back of the wall.

I just tried some quick check with actual bricks, and the tile would fit perfectly vertically if the vertical stack of each letter was (from top to bottom) = 2 plates + 2 bricks + 2 plates, and the side-studded brick was the one below. Unfortunately it currently is (from top to bottom) = 2 plates + 1 brick + 2 plates + 1 brick, and I was in fact counting on the upper grey bricks to be substituted with side-studded bricks.

BTW... didn't 1x4 tiles used to have a completely hollow bottom side a long time ago? That would allow to "slide" them vertically rather freely.

[Brickdoctor]

Shouldn't that horizontal 1 x 1 in the 'N' be light bley? Just saying.

You can just only attach the ends, and if you attach it tightly enough friction will hold the other parts in.

Though really, you'd end up having to make it deeper than 1 stud, because the shortest way to fill in the holes in the Technic 1 x 2 bricks is a half-pin and cut flex tubing, which will add a half-plate's depth.

[AndyC]

You could just use 2x4 tiles and then construct whatever is needed to hold them in the correct place behind the sign.

[Legoist]

Shouldn't that horizontal 1 x 1 in the 'N' be light bley? Just saying.

I don't know, that letter is clearly the worst currently, I'll have to think of a better solution than mine.

You can just only attach the ends, and if you attach it tightly enough friction will hold the other parts in.

I'm afraid that being a locomotive, it will be subject to a lot of bumps and movements so they better be fixed.

Though really, you'd end up having to make it deeper than 1 stud, because the shortest way to fill in the holes in the Technic 1 x 2 bricks is a half-pin and cut flex tubing, which will add a half-plate's depth.

Yes technic pins are what I plan to use to fill those holes. The other half of the pin goes into the loco's hollow body, where the engine would be, so this should cause no harm at all.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Legoist

[Brickdoctor]

Yes technic pins are what I plan to use to fill those holes. The other half of the pin goes into the loco's hollow body, where the engine would be, so this should cause no harm at all.

Yes, so what I'm saying is if the interior is hollow and you can't see it and you're extending into that area anyways, why not just make the wall two studs deep?

[davee123]

Well, here's one possibility:

Note, the light-gray bricks are 1x1 plates with horizontal clips, where they can clip on to a long bar behind the lettering. Also, a few positions are 1x1 technic bricks turned sideways with half-pins so they can attach to the 1x4 tiles in between letters. And obviously you wouldn't use all 1x1 plates, just combine into other plates/bricks where it makes sense.

DaveE

[Legoist]

Well, here's one possibility:

Note, the light-gray bricks are 1x1 plates with horizontal clips, where they can clip on to a long bar behind the lettering. Also, a few positions are 1x1 technic bricks turned sideways with half-pins so they can attach to the 1x4 tiles in between letters. And obviously you wouldn't use all 1x1 plates, just combine into other plates/bricks where it makes sense.

DaveE

That looks great, thanks a lot!