DISENCHANTED with the pirates theme...

[Brick Miner]

like the title says, Pirates of the Caribbean has obviously had some effect over the LEGO pirate community and the hobby. im sure for many it has inspired and renewed interest (very evident by the explosion of members to this forum). however, for me it has actually done harm !!!

the pirate world of POTC is far different from the world of LEGO pirates. krakens, squid-men, and hammer-head shark people, have temporarily removed me from the basic form and structure of the LEGO pirate world.

and its hard to get the image of POTC out of my head, i mean its everywhere in pop-culture !!!

i wish either LEGO had explored some of the fantasy elements that had appeared in POTC, or POTC hadn't been so fantastic. after typing that, it sounds like what im looking for is a LEGO pirates movie !!! :-D :-D :-D

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the other element which is making me dislike the LEGO pirates theme is this forum. let me explain...

see the islanders sub-theme is my favorite part about the pirates. they were colorful, imaginary, and over-all very visually stimulating. yes, its true they were not very historically correct, in the fact that they appeared in the pirates theme. but that is meaning less to me. good set design and visual appeal trump the historically accurate thing. it seems most EBers agree with that, based on what was being said in this thread.

so why no islander representation ???

i mean, even the flagship image, which represents this forum (the banner), is absent of an islander !!!

even POTC had islanders, probably the coolest part of the movie for me... it was flat out hilarious !!!

personally, i would love to give the islanders proper attention here on EB, but im afraid it will fall on blind eyes... plus my next MOC has me too busy with the WW theme. ;-)

ulimately this post is to justify my absence from the pirate forum (this is my third favorite theme),

i hope this distaste passes soon :-X

- BrickMiner

BTW, open discussion is encouraged about the above topics.

[ghoulrealm]

I tend to steer away from islanders.. it is a good addition to the theme for variety, but my least favorite.

I can see some potential for good islander mocs though, like Easter island, Robinson Caruso, and maybe something like Skull Island from King Kong.

I don't always like going direct from popular media but they are convenient inspirational starting points.

[oo7]

I like like the islanders and I would give them more reputation, make some islander mocs, that is if I had any pirate sets. :-|

But here is some islander stuff:

Island

Favorite Islander set

[Jipay]

Ah, excellent. The worst thing is that I have a load of islander but didn't even notice they were missing. I guess it's like in many other lego themes : people tend to forget about standard characters such as civilians.

Your topic makes me wanna create some MOC for those poor islanders

[SkaForHire]

Ah, excellent. The worst thing is that I have a load of islander but didn't even notice they were missing. I guess it's like in many other lego themes : people tend to forget about standard characters such as civilians.

Your topic makes me wanna create some MOC for those poor islanders

alas... i don't really have more then a couple islanders... and they don't make it that often into my creations... I give props to those who can build islander stuff! its always cool to see!

for me POTC is pretty different from lego, they are seperate stories, and I am not influenced to build ghost ships or anything from it.... so i guess i don't see the tarnishing on lego.

If i think about it, there are a couple here who really like fantasy, and then a couple who really don't and then the rest of us are pretty much in the middle and open to whatever someone posts.

I think we also get alot of people that go both ways with acuracy and set design, some strive for both, some strive for one or the other... but i think its good that we are all receptive towards each other's designs...

[Jipay]

Well, I have many for one reason : if Phes finds the price of pirate sets cheap in France, Islanders are even cheaper ! ;-)

[Captain Roger]

I understand you miss islanders in this forum but i don't understand you are starting to dislike Lego pirates theme because POTC...i find it absurd because Lego pirates theme is the same before and after that movies

[Jipay]

I don't think it's exactly the same actually. The lego pirate theme tended to be for purists who were adding a lot of realistic details to their MOC. If I get what BM is refering to, he's more "complaining" about the fantasy aspect that is popin up in many MOC lately.

No big deal though I think

[Brick Miner]

I understand you miss islanders in this forum but i don't understand you are starting to dislike Lego pirates theme because POTC...i find it absurd because Lego pirates theme is the same before and after that movies

very true !!!

ok, let me explain...

i feel that the image of pirates (in regards to LEGO pirates) have been tarnished because of POTC. see, LEGO had a very balanced world created for their pirate line... there were obivously things allowed, and things not allowed. anyone who tries to build a pirate MOC in the LEGO SYSTEM style of building will fully realize this. all of those allowances (which are too many to mention) make up the world of LEGO pirates, and thus dictated my image of pirates in general.

POTC has intruded on that vision of a pirate world. and it is hard to escape the POTC pirate world, because it is EVERYWHERE right now !!!

here comes the problem, i can't pull inspiration from POTC (and i want to) because its world is so different from that of the LEGO pirate world !!! to most this probably wont be much of an issue, but to me, to included these elements into LEGO pirates would be considered very unLEGO like. see, my MOCs apply all the rules and restrictions LEGO set forth in their worlds (pirates included).

with all of that said, the main thing is, the POTC world is currently clashing with the official LEGO pirates world. all of my favs, Black Seas Barracuda, Skulls Eye Schooner, the Imperial Trading Post, and so forth, are in a way, being trumped by the new popular culture icon of a pirate !!!

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however, im glad to hear a few still love the islanders, i just can't understand why they would be disliked so much... artistically speaking, the sets designs are near perfect !!!

[ApophisV]

so why no islander representation ???

Hehe, I just started a small Islander MOC (based on the cannibal scenes from PotC2) last weekend! ;-)

Actually Dana and me are planning to build something together, we will show the results here as soon as we are finished! (Maybe you'll even get some preview pics if I can get my hands on my sister's digicam)

[ghoulrealm]

Sorry, Brick Miner but I for one will not be limited to TLC's protocol and building style.

Regardless of POTC I will use any excuse to add monsters and ghost in any theme. For me, thats the element that is truely fun.

There is still plenty of realistic mocs being made although I'll admit not many are islander.

If you'ld like to use POTC as a moc template you can always filter out the paranormal aspects.

The Dauntless, Port Royal, even the Black Pearl if you replace the sails with intact sails.

I'm not watching Dead Man's Chest until the DVD release so I don't have much of a clue to it's realism yet.

I know that the Flying Duthman is fantastical, obviously!

[Berry Syedow]

I don't quite understand the problem. Ghoulrealm built part of the "Flying Dutchman", however that MOC is completely removed from the LEGO pirate world. Almost all of the recent MOCs have been ships, anyway. Nothing particularly POTC... It's true the Islanders don't get enough attention. So I've decided to make a few Islander MOCs. It'll be fun to see what Apo's done. ;-)

[Brick Miner]

after re-reading my last post i realize not many here will likely agree with my POTC train of thought... as most here don't try to replicate a LEGO SYSTEM building style as i do.

i know Phes has been known to build in this manner, and recently we have seen Grayner doing this. (BTW, he is doing a fantasic job X-D )

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ghoulrealm,just like you i love adding fantasy (monsters or whatever) to my MOCs. but i can't seem to find a way to fit them in with my existing offical pirate sets. to keep the authenticy of my existing pirate sets, BCB, ITP... my fantasy MOCs must blend seamlessly.

in my western MOCs i have gotten around this by creating new sub-themes. for example, the subtheme of Ghost Town allows much more fantasy than would be allowed in the standard cowboy line of 1996. this lets me go wild with my imagination !!! its probably my favorite building theme that i have attempted yet.

using a sub-theme would be a good way to get around my pirate predicament... islanders seem to reach into fantasy more than the standard pirate/imperial line. so even they fit the "sub-theme-to-stretch-fantasy idea". i could create a new sub-theme for pirates... that could work... hmmmm....

- BM

EDIT: ok, thought about that. im still disenchanted with LEGO pirates cause that sub-theme idea would just seem like a copy of POTC... thats not original or fun *sad*

[SuvieD]

If you like islanders so much just build something. One of the reasons there is nothing is that no one has started something. Be the first to moc and others will be inspired and moc also.

MOC on!

[snefroe]

1) Islanders is basically just one direction a pirate story can take. a classic pirate film, in my opinion, is still about pirates fighting soldiers at sea, having islanders involved is just an option. In fact, you could even say that lego spent quite a lot of effort on that option...

2) i do agree that potc has gone quite far in using fantasy elements. i think they're facing the same problems as lego: a pirate story is so limited in story telling that you just need other elements to keep it interesting and exciting for a general public. because of that, it's lost authenticity, and i wouldn't be surprised if the third film won't even be a pirate film anymore, but a film of the fantasy genre

[texas_jack_can]

I, for one, never expected authenticity from any Disney movie, PoTC included. I was infact surprised at the level of historical detail used, and the fact that the main force in the Caribbean was, infact, Britian. When I first heard about the movie, I was expecting that it would somehow include America in some way, as so many movies these days do. For the record, I am Canadian, and somewhat against the importance Americans play up for themselves in historical movies. Anyway, this last comment has a very strong potential to go off topic, so lets move on.

I may not have been around this lego community for long, but I have seen a LOT of PoTC influence in MOCs. In my mind, this is more a coincidence of me joining now, right after the release of the moive, than say 6 months or a year ago. That being said, I have a feeling that, as the novelity of this movie dies down, so will the influx of PoTC MOCs. I am not saying these MOCs should stop altogether, as some of them are really, REALLY awesome, like the progress on Ghoulrealm's "Flying Dutchman", an awesome looking MOC so far, and I hope Ghoulrealm gets the bricks s/he gets to finish it, because I think it is really off on the right track. On the other hand, the amount of "Black Pearl" MOCs could quite quickly get out of hand. Not that I want to stop anyone from mocking, although I doubt my humble opninion holds that much clout, but Lego is, at least in my mind, meant as something that you could use to create anything you wanted. When I was a kid, and after I destroyed my original BSB, and lost the instructions, I used the hull pieces to make a massive space ship, ugly looking planes, anything I could dream up. That, to me at least, is what a MOC is all about. Drawing inspirations from movies or TV is great, but there is something to be said about building something that is your own creation, then sharing it with a community. And that is where I see MOCing going once the hype from the movie dies down.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box, that was much longer than I had thought it would be. :-$

[Brick Miner]

Sorry, Brick Miner

ok, i've had been away for awhile (doing summer conventions, and working on the H&A Forum skin) but i just re-read this thread, and i just now realize why you appologized Ghoulrealm. i honestly didn't know before, because my mind was too focused on the real issue i was (still am :-( ) having.

its not your MOCs or anybody's MOCs, i wasn't "complaining"... let me put it in new words...

see, POTC was so fantasical and visually stimulating that now, looking back on the offical LEGO pirate world, it seems less grand. BSB, SES, Broadside, Spinoza and BoSun all seem less interesting than before i saw the movie.

so now, that is why i say, i am disenchanted with LEGO pirates. because the charcters, buildings, and ships that inspired me before are now trumped by the fantasic world of POTC. in effect, the Imperial Trading Post, BSB, SES, and others don't inspire me like they used to :-(

creating that fantasic sub-theme, would have been a good way to place the offical-LEGO world within a fantasic POTC inspired world.. but again, im not satisfied with that idea.

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i could have just let this thead die, but i wanted to change the title from "dislike" to the more appropriate "disenchanted", and clear things up with you !!! sorry for the confusion, i was having trouble putting my feelings into words i guess !!!

- BrickMiner

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BTW, i still don't see all those islander MOCS :-P X-D

[Mister Phes]

like the title says, Pirates of the Caribbean has obviously had some effect over the LEGO pirate community and the hobby. im sure for many it has inspired and renewed interest (very evident by the explosion of members to this forum). however, for me it has actually done harm !!!

What makes you say this? The explosion of the members is a result of an advertising campaign and certain behind the scenes management. Regardless of whether people have been inspired or acquired renewed interest they still can't find this forum without advertising. If I hadn't done the advertising then these members wouldn't have found the forum. Its as simple as: I started advertising and the users began joining. Its a wonder the management of the other forums have adopted the methods I've developed over the past few months.

so why no islander representation ???

There's no red coat Imperial Guard representation either. The banner was the last part of the Pirate skin I worked on and by this time I'd had enough so I rushed it. There have been plans to add the absent figures but I just haven't got round to it yet.

personally, i would love to give the islanders proper attention here on EB, but im afraid it will fall on blind eyes... plus my next MOC has me too busy with the WW theme. ;-)

I've created two islander MOCs and posted one in the Pirate MOC sub-forum but it seems to be lacking a response from you, now why might that be?

[Mister Phes]

see, POTC was so fantasical and visually stimulating that now, looking back on the offical LEGO pirate world, it seems less grand. BSB, SES, Broadside, Spinoza and BoSun all seem less interesting than before i saw the movie.

so now, that is why i say, i am disenchanted with LEGO pirates. because the charcters, buildings, and ships that inspired me before are now trumped by the fantasic world of POTC. in effect, the Imperial Trading Post, BSB, SES, and others don't inspire me like they used to :-(

Its shame you've let a recent motion picture with no official connection to Pirate LEGO convolute your perspective of their universe. That would be like me writing I'm disenchanted with Adventurers now I've that I've rewatched Indiana Jones. Fortunately I have the ability to differeniate between two completely different universes constructed with two completely different mediums, so its easy for me to accept them as seperate entities.

Since you prefer Pirates of the Caribbean perhaps you should start buying the Mega Bloks sets and give me whatever Pirate LEGO you have. Surely, you wouldn't miss the Pirate LEGO once you had the Pirates of the Caribbean Mega Blok sets.

[Brick Miner]

Surely, you wouldn't miss the Pirate LEGO once you had the Pirates of the Caribbean Mega Blok sets.

:-D :-D :-D

ya, i've wondered if my mind would have the same train of thought if the movie Wild Wild West (will smith) was released today ??? makes me wonder if id be steared away from my current western craze ???

it would have to be a good production thought, for that to happen. and WWW just didn't do anything for me. |-/

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i haven't seen your islander MOCs phes, perhaps i didn't look long enough.

on my way there...

- BrickMiner

[Berry Syedow]

see, POTC was so fantasical and visually stimulating that now, looking back on the offical LEGO pirate world, it seems less grand. BSB, SES, Broadside, Spinoza and BoSun all seem less interesting than before i saw the movie.

so now, that is why i say, i am disenchanted with LEGO pirates. because the charcters, buildings, and ships that inspired me before are now trumped by the fantasic world of POTC. in effect, the Imperial Trading Post, BSB, SES, and others don't inspire me like they used to :-(

Its shame you've let a recent motion picture with no official connection to Pirate LEGO convolute your perspective of their universe. That would be like me writing I'm disenchanted with Adventurers now I've that I've rewatched Indiana Jones. Fortunately I have the ability to differeniate between two completely different universes constructed with two completely different mediums, so its easy for me to accept them as seperate entities.

Precisely. After all of the complaints of POTC influences I was confused because to be influenced and to be are two different things. A complaint against influence is certainly legitimate, but if a MOC is based on the movie then it is limited to the POTC universe.

Brick Miner, it sounds like you are suffering from desensitization. (Am I ok using that in this context?) An obvious example would be violence. Exposure renders the lesser incidents trivial. (To a degree...) Likewise the tiny amount of fantasy present in the LEGO Pirate Line is trivialized by the huge dose in POTC.

Thank you for clearing your problem up.

[Mister Phes]

i haven't seen your islander MOCs phes, perhaps i didn't look long enough.

on my way there...

It appears you found AN islander MOC, but not mine so you're definitely not spending enough time there. Although I've called mine a "vignette" and its rather rushed so I wouldn't say its that good, however my second MOC is a vast improvement. I won't post that till my vignette gets more responses though.

[Berry Syedow]

i haven't seen your islander MOCs phes, perhaps i didn't look long enough.

on my way there...

It appears you found AN islander MOC, but not mine so you're definitely not spending enough time there. Although I've called mine a "vignette" and its rather rushed so I wouldn't say its that good, however my second MOC is a vast improvement. I won't post that till my vignette gets more responses though.

Mister Phes, I haven't replied to your MOC because there isn't much to add. I do like the concept very much, though. And, like someone said, the idea should be expounded upon. I've seen your second MOC and I like it a lot! Do consider posting it soon!

[Brick Miner]

AH YES !!! desensitization, is a good word !!! thanks berry.

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and hold on phes... i found your thread "hidden", like a good islander in this natural jungle environment. ;-)

i just can't comment on everything all at once !!! i have been envolving myself much more with EB as of the past month... much more than i had originally intented. i know it doesn't sounds like much compared to your "average of 14 posts per day" but i posted around 20 replys in the past two days. 8-

[Basiliscus]

Its shame you've let a recent motion picture with no official connection to Pirate LEGO convolute your perspective of their universe. That would be like me writing I'm disenchanted with Adventurers now I've that I've rewatched Indiana Jones. Fortunately I have the ability to differeniate between two completely different universes constructed with two completely different mediums, so its easy for me to accept them as seperate entities.

Since you prefer Pirates of the Caribbean perhaps you should start buying the Mega Bloks sets and give me whatever Pirate LEGO you have. Surely, you wouldn't miss the Pirate LEGO once you had the Pirates of the Caribbean Mega Blok sets.

And I would also agree. I see LEGO as a medium for people to express themselves and produce models of what they enjoy. There must be a differentiation between films and LEGO, even if people make MOCs of films. I would hope most people agree, but sometimes I can watch a film and think of ways to make certain buildings/ships/characters in LEGO, and so it could be claimed that film encourages me to build with LEGO, and reinvigorates my interest in it.

In my opinion most times films inspire people to do MOCs. I'm not a fan of POTC because of the large fantasy element, but if people post a fantasy MOC it shouldn't be classed as a failure since someone just copied a movie, it takes much work to get an accurate representation of anything in LEGO. People should be pleased it encourages interest in the genre.

Precisely. After all of the complaints of POTC influences I was confused because to be influenced and to be are two different things. A complaint against influence is certainly legitimate, but if a MOC is based on the movie then it is limited to the POTC universe.

Again, I agree. Any influence from any medium (be it films, books, drawings) is all good for the LEGO community because someone may make a MOC of say a POTC ship, then another person may look at the ship and see a new building style/technique which may then influence them to build a ship of their own imagination incorporating this technique, making it better.

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So in a long-winded way, I'm trying to say any influence is good for the community, and in a roundabout way MOCs influenced by other mediums may themselves influence further, greater MOCs.

Phew, long post! *sweet*