Very little MOC feedback - what to do about it

[Lasse D]

It happens from time to time that I post a MOC in here that receives only one or very few comments. Instead of being angry/sad/leaving, I want to get to the core of why some creations attract very little feedback, and thus find out what can be done better.

So. Fellow Eurobricker. Please take a glimpse of some MOCs in your favourite category in here, find one and tell me why you don't want to comment on it. If you are uncomfortable about taking a specific MOC, then use my Echo as an example. You have my permission :-)

If your answer is something like 'the MOC doesn't interest me', then please tell me what could be done to make it interesting for you. Add a video, instructions, or whatever you think.

I have added a poll where you can give your most commonly used reason for not commenting.

Hopefully we might learn something and start presenting MOCs that create more feedback :-)

Edited July 1, 2011 by Lasse D

[Horry]

Hey, first of all: I get some strange possibilities to vote for in your poll (they appear as: "I don") - might have somethin' to do with the apostroph.

EDIT: Never mind, you fixed it.

That is a good question. First of all, I think this varies from subtheme to subtheme. Many of us have a focus on certain themes and tend to givemost feedback in there. Then there's what I call the specialist's interest. If you know much about a certain technique (f.e. snot), a certain type of MOC (vignette vs. vehicles etc.) or a certain type of model (experts on cars, on frigates, on Star Wars rebel fighters...) then you tend to give more feedback there because it is more likely that you have something of value to add.

Another thing that strikes me as bein' important is the timing of your publication. If I post a MOC in a forum that has three other MOCs being posted at the same time that might catch more attention because a EB-Celeb is posting them/they are huge/impressively built then my MOC might just get lost in the shuffle.

So far, I've got only one MOC posted here having received no feedback and that in a subtheme where I am used to very... let's call it interval-ish activity anyway. Whereas in the classic pirates section you get literally drowned in comments and suggestions on most MOCs.

I try to comment on all MOCs in my subtheme that I think can benefit from my feedback. In other subthemes I will comment on things that really catch my attention or are from members that I am in contact with. Another rule I sometimes use is to comment on MOCs of new members to encourage them... But there's such a sheer number of MOCs to comment on that most of them will definetly not be seen by me.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Horry

[Peppermint_M]

Staff though I may be, I just don't feel qualified to run feedback an many kinds of MOCs. I know nothing of the building you and Ralph S prefer, so to state anything (apart from admiration at technical skill and replication of a real object) would be false and maybe even pointless. Also, plenty of times I feel like a meanie, dropping on a MOC and taking it apart criticaly. I have done it once or twice to no avail.

Also, I often find that a personal prefrence of the builder is not the same as my own, when my aesthetic choices are picked out as issues with my MOCs I don't find it helpful, therefore I don't think a personal dislike of another's choice to be pertinent to discussion.

I have to admit that my own MOCing is more like second nature (as it is to write, read or speak) so although I can offer creative advice and even proffer up construction techniques I find it diffficult to explain.

However I do wish to once again offer up constructive feedback to others, with the above reasons being the main cause of my reluctence.

[Saint]

Well... Lets say I've got my own opinions about MOC's.

I don't give feedback if the model isn't interest to me, and I think no-one is waiting for my criticism. I don't go running around to score points by sucking up to people and when I do react to a certain MOC I really really like it.

I do enjoy reading all of the MOC - topic's ( related or not to my interest )

Your example is nice, but I don't have any interest in your specific kind of building, so I wont be giving you any feedback on your model, sorry

Grtz Saint

[Gregorovich]

I comment on most MOC's. Usually, if I don't comment on it it's because I don't have time. I like most MOC's I see here, and almost all of them are much better than the ones I make. If there's things I think the builder could improve on, I write it in my comment. I also usually say what I do like about it.

Another reason I might not comment is because there's just some things I don't look at. I almost never visit the technic or action figures forums, and I don't often look at SW MOC's.

So if I don't comment on your MOC's, you now know why .

[Fugazi]

For me, it's chiefly a matter of time. I will comment on a very few (if any) of the 10+ MOCs that show up every day on EB. I can't justify taking the time to comment on every MOC, and besides there are a few other issues that need to be factored in:

- Some MOCs are just not my cup of tea: for instance I'm not an expert Technic builder, so even if I'm impressed by a build I may not be very familiar enough with the theme to be able to give useful input.

- Everything's been said: I don't feel it's useful to repeat previous posters' comments if I don't have anything new to add to the discussion.

- I just can't bother: a few MOCs are just bad, boring, badly photographed or just like too many others I've seen before that I can't figure out what to reply. I wouldn't know where to start. Some people here are great at giving constructive criticism, I'm not one of them. And I try hard to shut up when I can't say anything nice.

[prateek]

Nowadays, I'm just too lazy to comment. I know I want to, but I'd rather admire the pictures than write a comment, especially if what I said has already been said.

[MacK]

You've presented an interesting question Lasse D, its something that I've been wondering myself.

Most of the time when I don't comment, I do so because there is nothing constructive for me to say, or my thoughts had already been posted by other members. There are a lot of really good mocs and builders on Eurobricks. Whenever one of these great builders posts something that I could only realistically post a quick one-liner of praise towards it just doesn't seem necessary. Given that these types of mocs generally accumulate a few comments like that anyways, I choose not to post, as there are bound to be other people who could give more meaningful comments that the builder may appreciate more. Other times I just don't really know enough about the theme to say anything really meaningful.

If I have a bit of spare time I do try to go through some of the sub-forums and comment on mocs that have little attention. I hate it when I see a moc near the bottom of the page that only has one or two comments. I know that it can be really frustrating to take the time to build and post a moc. Only to have it have it seemingly ignored by a community as large as Eurobricks.

In general I do like to look at mocs of any sort, but if they is really nothing constructive that I can say regarding the moc I won't post.

[Brickdoctor]

Most interesting.

For me, usually, I have the time, and I can usually offer some constructive criticism. In the Star Wars theme, I build so often that I can basically comment on any MOC. There are a few that slip past me now and then, but usually if I don't comment at all it's because it's to offer constructive criticism on the MOC would be to essentially say 'scrap it and start over'. So I'd categorize that as not wanting to hurt the builder's feelings.

Then there's the issue of saying what everyone else said and not adding to the discussion. With themes I'm proficient in, that's not a problem, because even with those MOCs where everyone just posts a 'Wow, that's great!' sort of comment, I can pick out some minute details to comment on. (nice parts usage here, nice shaping there, etc.)

There's also the cases where I feel I'm simply not experienced enough in a theme to comment. I see a ton of great MOCs in the Technic forum, but I have so little experience in that theme that for now I'd be limited to the above-mentioned 'Wow, that's great!' comments, and since those tend to annoy me, I try not to make them.

And there's the cases where the MOC doesn't interest me at all, in which case it's probably the theme. I don't think I've ever commented in the Action Figure forum, only because the theme didn't appeal to me. (nothing against the outstanding EB members who spend a lot of time there)

So for me, it's highly theme-dependant, with reasons ranging across all the options of your poll, so I voted 'Other'. Maybe it'd be good if you allowed voters to select multiple options.

[Lasse D]

The poll is mostly for people who don't want to write a full reply, but still want to voice their opinion. You just have to choose the single most used reason

By the comments in this thread, it seems that most MOCs stay without comments because they fall into themes with little interest. A new question would thus be. What could persuade you to comment on a MOC in a field that falls out of your normal scope?

[Brickdoctor]

By the comments in this thread, it seems that most MOCs stay without comments because they fall into themes with little interest. A new question would thus be. What could persuade you to comment on a MOC in a field that falls out of your normal scope?

For me, as I said, it annoys me when people post 'Wow!' comments, so I avoid those at all costs. That means that I usually only comment on builds from themes that I build in an can offer an in-depth comment on. The only thing the builder could do is build something so hugely massively impressive that I would find a 'Wow!' comment to be appropriate. For me to comment on something else out of my normal scope, even if it's still very good, would probably require me to become a fairly experienced builder in that theme.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Nowadays, I'm just too lazy to comment.

Me too! Sometimes I see a really good creation, but just don't want to take the effort to log in and reply. Or I just can't add to the discussion. I have had 1 topic with no replies. It could also be the fact that I only go into certain theme forums and I thus miss a MOC all because I don't go into the Special theme forum rather than the pirate forum.

[Captain Green Hair]

Hmm, mostly I post when I have some points for improvement.

If a model is perfect, like a lot of yours, I just don't know what to say other then; awesome!

In the last case a MOC can be so worse I rather not look at it.

[Cecilie]

Here's some of my thoughts about this:

- If I were to comment on every MOC I see in a day, I wouldn't have time to do any building, do my job properly, sleep enough, or whatever else I want to fill my days with. I come across a lot of MOCs (not all on EB), and most I only cast a glimpse on and move on.

- If I am to comment on a MOC, I want my comment to be positive and to point out at least a couple of details that I like (maybe because that's the type of comment I like to receive?). For this to happen, the MOC has to catch my eye so that I'll want to spend enough time looking at it so I can see all those wonderful details. And this will most often happen with MOCs in categories that I like in general.

- If I love the MOC, but it's in a subforum where I don't feel comfortable expressing my opinions (for example if I rarely visit that subforum), I might be more reluctant to post a comment, but if the MOC really really impresses me, I might still make a comment.

- I don't feel skilled enough in any areas (at least not yet) to provide any good constructive criticism, so I will generally avoid that type of comments. I also don't want to risk hurting the feelings of builders, so I'll rather not comment if I can't be solely positive.

- Many really good MOCs might fail to impress me because I don't see the beauty in that type of building, hence I will not comment. There's no point in me saying something stupid about a MOC that just isn't my cup of tea.

Another point might be that because there are so many of us out there building and posting images of our creations, we are spoiled with excellent MOCs, and so we might neglect those that don't reach into the "extreme wow" category. Which is actually a bit sad...

[brickmack]

Well I mostly look at sci-fi and Pirate stuff, and occasionally SW and historic stuff. I occasionally look at TECHNIC stuff, but some I never look at (Fabuland grosses me out). So if it's not any of the themes I look at regularly, there is almost no chance I will even notice it unless I happen to see a link to it on the frontpage or another site. Then sometimes I don't comment because: There isn't anything to say that someone hasn't already posted, The creation is so utterly crappy I can't even think of where to start, horrible pictures (As in you can't even see it), etc. Also sometimes I'm just too lazy to comment.

[Aanchir]

There's a number of factors. For instance, with a lot of MOCs I feel like I can't give any authoritative or meaningful feedback while being impartial about people's building styles. A lot of my own MOCs have similar design considerations to sets, and I try to avoid illegal connections. at the same time, it feels petty to say "This is great, but it would have been better if it didn't use illegal connections" or "this is great, but it ought to be simplified structurally". Basically, I'm so used to judging my own MOCs according to set design terms, I don't have much authority judging a MOC with vastly different design considerations. At the same time, I don't want to just ignore anything partial to my own style, leaving behind only fawning praise for a MOC that is good, but not outstanding.

The time I'm most likely to critique something without hesitation about subjectivity is when I'm commenting on a contest entry for a contest I'm also entering. In this case, I can compare and contrast the thought processes that went into their design with the thought processes that went into my own. Any place there's a discrepancy, I am usually happy to share whether I think their process or mine led to a more effective MOC.

Another thing is that I often don't have the patience for a good, solid critique. As you can probably tell already from this post, I tend to ramble, so critiquing a MOC takes a lot out of me. I often put a critique off until later, and then never get back to it. This applies especially with any MOC that has too much detail to take in at one time.

I tend to avoid critiquing any MOCs based on themes in which I have little experience or authority. It would be extremely embarrassing if I were to review a train MOC and say "I think it would look good if you changed this..." only to be told that it's an integral part of that train model and would be inaccurate any other way. Subforums I tend to avoid for this reason include the Train Tech, Pirates, Star Wars, and Historic Themes subforums. I do comment in Historic Themes and Star Wars, but mostly on reviews or discussion of current sets. I also make occasional comments in the Pirates subforum, but nowhere near as many as I make in Town, Action Themes, Action Figures, or Other Themes.

So overall, it's always a good idea to assume that if you don't see any feedback on a MOC from me, it's because of my own shortcomings, not those of your MOC. If you do get feedback from me, it's a measure of my own confidence and not necessarily a sign that your MOC is superior to those in other threads or subforums.

[Legoless]

I voted for 'not saying anything if I only have something negative to say' option- although it is more complicated than that.

As my name suggests, I currently don't own any Lego (aside from some in the attic of my foster parent's house which is technically mine- and the rest is shared with my foster brothers); and as such, I haven't built with Lego since the 1980's, and I can't currently afford to invest in any. So my Lego building experience is both historical and virtual (given that I have a fairly good idea of the current Lego inventory and at least a reasonable concept of what to do with it) but no actual recent experience (after all, having ideas for what one can do with Lego is a bit like knowing how to be the best Formula 1 driver, or footballer- its easier to be an armchair expert than the real thing). Hence if I offer constructive advice I try to think things through before offering what are always tentative suggessions.

Despite me not owning any Lego, the lure of this site (and others) was just too powerful for me not to want to contribute my tuppence worth- God knows I lurked long enough!

[XimenaPaulina]

This is a very interesting discussion, though I was quite surprised to see that my primary reason for not commenting on a MOC is not included in the poll - which is simply because I have no interest on the build to offer my comments. It doesn't matter whether the MOC is a good one or bad, if it doesn't pique my interest then I have nothing to say at all. Good MOCs certainly get my attention and most of the time I give my 2 cents to congratulate the builder for a job well done and I usually offer constructive criticism when I see MOCs/builders that might need some improvement.

[Superkalle]

Why no feedback you ask?

Three reasons in my mind (stated in general, not pertaining to your stuff Lasse):

1) Builder is not clear enough that he wants feedback. Builders need to be very clear that you WANT feedback of ALL kinds, also critisism. Otherwise you risk only getting "wow, nice build" comments. It takes time and effort to give feedback of value, and you need to give the readers something back - opening up for being very honest is one such way.

2) MOC is not the kind that reader likes OR is perhaps not up to standard yo be bothered about.

3) Could off course be that EB members are not the commenting kind, but I don't find that likely.

One way to increase feedback quality could be to have a "was this feedback valuable" rating system, so that members can "earn" points. I guess much the same as the Reviewers tags (bronze, silver, gold), but for feedback instead.

[WhiteFang]

Very interesting discussion. Here are my initial thoughts as I chose "Other" in the poll above.

First of all, I truly enjoy viewing the different, creative and unique MOCs being showcased inside Eurobricks. I enjoy admiring them more than commenting as I am not much of MOC builder and I don't think my critique will offer any valuable insight since I don't build much of my own creations which made me lacked confidence to do so to give my comments and thoughts for the builder.

Next, I will love to add in more of the positive sides but I felt I would and made it repeating like what many others might comment. I do not want to mention, "Nice MOC" or "Great looking creation", etc. Those are generic comments and if I want to comment, I will like to take a moment to craft my comment in an original manner and that will takes time. As Eurobricks may have a large influx of MOCs at times or seasons, commenting will be slower. As much as I can, I will love to comment all of the MOCs I see but time after time, I felt my comments are quite generic and I will love to put in my best efforts to write my comment just as much as the builder have done.

This is probably me, so I thought i could shared my thoughts with you.

[22kane]

I've been reading this ever since it was posted and wasn't going to reply but I figured- what the hell.

The amount of MOCs posted everyday can be overwhelming. If it's not my genre so to speak I usually won't comment. Certain MOCs get more attention than others depending on how popular the genre is. For instance- if you were building Pirate MOCs I guarantee you would get plenty of feedback. It's just a popular niche. And like everyone else, if I have nothing nice to say I won't say anything. 99% of the population on EB is pretty respectful and that's a good thing.

I've seen some of your stuff and it's pretty cool, just not my thing. If you were posting Train MOCs I'd be all over it.

[Fallenangel]

...I think this varies from subtheme to subtheme. Many of us have a focus on certain themes and tend to givemost feedback in there. Then there's what I call the specialist's interest. If you know much about a certain technique (f.e. snot), a certain type of MOC (vignette vs. vehicles etc.) or a certain type of model (experts on cars, on frigates, on Star Wars rebel fighters...) then you tend to give more feedback there because it is more likely that you have something of value to add.

Another reason I might not comment is because there's just some things I don't look at. I almost never visit the technic or action figures forums, and I don't often look at SW MOC's.

I think why I choose not to leave comments is mainly because of these two, but also a little of all of the poll choices (with the exception of the last two). I consider my Eurobricks 'niche' in the Star Wars subforum, so most of my posts are within this subforum. Furthermore, the quality of the feedback I feel I can offer declines outside of the AFOLSW community, which ties in to the fact that I think generic one-word 'Wow!'-type comments don't really communicate much.

By the comments in this thread, it seems that most MOCs stay without comments because they fall into themes with little interest. A new question would thus be. What could persuade you to comment on a MOC in a field that falls out of your normal scope?

I propose a Custom of the Week...

On a related note, this thread reminds me of another thread which, if you disregard my behavior, deals with a similar subject...

[LEGOMAN132]

Most of the time Iam browsing on a mobil device so I just dont post on any topic.

[redryder]

Speaking as a newbie with no MOC experience, is there a beginner MOC section here? My MOCs look terrible, but I would love feedback on how to improve them.

[blueandwhite]

Honestly, most feedback on Eurobricks seems to fall into two categories IMO. The first is of the "OMG, that's so awesome; I could never build something so fantastic!!" variety. This feedback is usually reserved for MOC experts and well-known builders who are frequently front paged on this and other sites (brothers-brick for example). Many MOCs by these builders will include endless comments of "awesome" and "amazing" with constructive comments being few and far between. Basically most of these posts are simply folks trying to impress upon the builder how utterly mind-blown they are by his or her work. The problem of course is that it is very hard to give constructive criticism to somebody who is identified as a "MOC expert" and not sound a bit pompous (or like a complete windbag for that matter). I consider myself a decent enough builder, but I find it very difficult to give any meaningful constructive criticism to the many expert builders on these forums. Most of the MOC experts we have here are simply building on another level making it virtually impossible to provide a comment that goes beyond "awesome".

The second type of feedback that I frequently notice is where builders give advice to builders who are just starting out. This feedback is often more useful and thought out but is generally reserved for those builders who have not achieved what many would consider a true mastery of the hobby (if there could ever be such a thing). Giving constructive critique of a build is easier when you appreciate that the builder isn't significantly more skilled than you are (at this point). If I'm giving feedback to a new builder, I hope my observations are beneficial. In the rare circumstances where I provide feedback to a true master builder I am constantly concerned that my words may very well be misconstrued as arrogance rather than advice. Receiving criticism from a person who is less-skilled than you are can easily rub folks the wrong way.

Interestingly enough, I find that it's the intermediate or average builder that has his or her work completely overlooked as most people simply can't be bothered making a comment. The work is neither worthy of the unconditional praise that is dumped on many true masters; nor is it easy to find meaningful or constructive criticism for these MOCs. Sometimes this means the MOCs of some pretty decent builders go relatively unnoticed because the builder isn't a member of the established building elite. This can be very frustrating for many builders because most MOCs fall into this category. Unless your MOC is exceptionally good or you are a new builder who shows some promise you probably shouldn't expect much in the way of feedback. This isn't a slight to anybody; it's just that there are too many MOCs for any single person to comment on. Ultimately most of them will go relatively unnoticed.