Hello,

This week I thought it was a good idea to try and bring my old cybermaster parts

back to life for my little brother. It has been about 11 years or so I last

tried to get it working.

For this purpose I managed to get an old PC with a serial port and installed

windows 98SE and the cybermaster software on it.

Unfortunately the cybermaster programmable brick still doesn't respond after

this much time. I can remember from my childhood that even back then it did not

work. So I thought I recheck every connection and software/driver setting but

nothing I did brought it back to life.

The diagnose-wizard inside the cybermaster software said that there is a

communication error from the mobile (programmable) brick to the base station.

That seems consistent with my conclusion, because the LED's on the mobile

station indeed flickers in response to the data send to it.

Does anybody know how I can solve this problem? Software- or hardware-wise?

Ofcourse I'm only using new batteries;)

Edited March 17, 20231 yr by Wytse Talsma
removal of personal info

Here are instructions on how to "Make Cybermaster Run on Windows XP". Perhaps the steps could be adapted to your Windows operating system.

Jhl1908 also had these problems getting the Cybermaster software to run on his PC.

Here are instructions on how to "Make Cybermaster Run on Windows XP". Perhaps the steps could be adapted to your Windows operating system.

Jhl1908 also had these problems getting the Cybermaster software to run on his PC.

I am running windows 98SE on a special for that purpose refurbished old desktop, so I don't really think those steps would be necessary. If not impossible. It should just work native I thought..

But thanks for those instructions, it may come handy in the future :)

Edited July 28, 201113 yr by Wytse Talsma

I've just installed windows 95, but the issue still remains.. The signal from the mobile unit doesn't reach the base unit/software.

Long time ago we called with Lego Service and they send us a new base unit. But neither works so the mobile station must be broken.

Anybody know how to fix it? I do have some electronic skills but on the eye nothing seems to be broken.

I would just get a replacement 71846 "Electric, Cybermaster RF Tower" part and be done with it.

I would just get a replacement 71846 "Electric, Cybermaster RF Tower" part and be done with it.

a third one? :P I'm thinking of getting an Cybermaster Unit this week.

if you were wanting to fix the one that is not working id suggest going into the Electro Tech Online chat-room and asking somebody, adding a post in the forum and they should be able to help with that.

(back on topic)

yes it is easier to buy a new unit but f you fix one you save money and you learn something. maybe it is not worth the hassle.

it might not be the tower that's the problem or the brick so id make sure you know which one is faulty before buying a replacement.

Edited August 1, 201113 yr by SNIPE

Hi

I have LEGO Cybermaster. Managed to get the software up and running. Established communications to the control unit (71797). But in manual the motors do not run!

Stripped down the unit and removed the motors, both of which were seized. On further investigation found the actual magnets in the motors had delaminatted (chrome plating had split) ! Unfortunately beyond repair.

So does any one know of a viable replacement motor?

Thanks.

Edited April 16, 20231 yr by DreameMaker

1 hour ago, DreameMaker said:

So does any one know Same of a viable replacement motor?

Same experience here - that was apparently the time (around 1998/2000), when motor magnets TLG used really "fell apart" after some years - also happened to some of the 9V technic motors.

What I did was just acquiring more Cybermaster units - they are comparably cheap, as you know. I guess this is the best way to go. Out of 5, I had the luck, that two units had one motor each running fine. And so I "composed" one completely working unit ...

On the other hand: Although Cybermaster motors seem to fail - the rest is not. Output three always works nicely on my units, as do the inputs.

NQC (Bricxcc as IDE) communicates very well with Cybermaster units on Win11 platforms, just make sure your USB2Serial adapter has a COM port address in the 1 to 8 range.

Best,
Thorsten

Hello, i had found a motor, but it does sacrifice some battery slots and the pcb won't fit anymore...

These motors are from amazon. I think they are somewhat common since i can find them everywhere when i just serach for gear motor.

Spoiler

I made a topic about that... 2 years ago... damn time flies... well i havn't progressed (no time, laziness and those damn chips with like 70+ weeks delivery time...).

Topic: 

 

Edited April 19, 20231 yr by Cyber Master

Damned, yes, time flies by ...

Very nice solution and nice find!

The thing (for me - and only for me!) though is, that you also need to replace the Cybermaster brain. And I don't know, but are these nice motors you found, of the type tacho motor? The original Cybermaster firmware controls the speed (not power) of the motors, as they have a built-in rotation sensor: When you set both built-in motors to speed X, they'll try to maintain speed X, regardless of things that may slow them down. In other words, when you instruct a Cybermaster robot to go straight, it will.

When using an RCX brick with two Technic 9V motors on a two wheel robot, it will go "sort of straight", when putting the motors on power X.

In any case, nice solution to resurrect old programmable LEGO stuff!

All the best,
Thorsten

Edited April 19, 20231 yr by Toastie

No they don't have a built in feedback (tacho). The motors from lego also don't have a built in tacho, they have a light barrier soldered to the pcb which reaches into the gearbox... so it's difficult to find a motor that uses the original feedback system or an replacement motor which is flat enough to fit on the original gear box.

Edited April 20, 20231 yr by Cyber Master

20 hours ago, Cyber Master said:

No they don't have a built in feedback (tacho).

That is of course true with regard to a built-in speed control code. There is tacho feedback though, and all you need to program actual speed control code is already there: 

The NQC Guide says in Chapter 3.14 Cybermaster Specific Features:

Additionally, the two internal motors have tachometers, which measure ’clicks’ and speed
as the motors turn. There are about 50 clicks per revolution of the shaft. The tachometers
can be used, for example, to create a robot which can detect if it has bumped into an
object without using any external sensors. The tachometers have maximum values of
32767 and do not differentiate between directions. They will also count up if the shaft is
turned by hand, including when no program is running.

Using e.g. NQC, you do have access to a number of variables provided by the Cybermaster's firmware. Among these are: 

ClearTachoCounter(motors) (Function); Resets the tachometer for the motor(s) specified.
TachoCount(n) (Value); Returns the current value of the tachometer for a specified motor.
TachoSpeed(n); Returns the current speed of the tachometer for a specified motor.

These are really helpful, particularly the latter, as #clicks are already divided by "time" yielding rpm's or speed or whatever you want to call that, it will certainly depend on the model you are creating.

In conjunction with the SetPower(motor1/2) command, you can create a control loop, be it PI or PID or whatever.

On another note: The CM firmware also monitors the current flowing through the motor #3 output, when driving e.g. a Technic mini motor. This value can be accessed through:

ExternalMotorRunning(); This is actually a measure of the current being drawn by the motor.

Which is all really cool and demonstrates, how advanced the CM was at the time it was introduced!

Best wishes,
Thorsten

Edited April 21, 20231 yr by Toastie

I may have worded that wrong. The assembly "gearbox + motor + light barrier on pcb" can be used to determine speed and distance travled.

The thing is, the gearbox and pcb are highly specialized parts from lego. One option is to find a very flat motor that fits exactly onto the gearbox (no luck on that front).

Another, almost impossible, option is to find a motor with gearbox that can use the exsisting light sensor on the pcb.

I think in most cases a small modification on the original pcb is necessary if a tacho is needed (relocate light sensor).

 

Didn't know motor #3 current could be measured, can't remember i used that with the original software or was that even possible?

On 4/21/2023 at 7:07 PM, Cyber Master said:

The thing is, the gearbox and pcb are highly specialized parts from lego.

That is 100% true!!! I share your assessment regarding getting an alternative: I believe there is a close to zero chance. That is why I'd rather acquire Cybermaster units in greater numbers and hope for a good motor. I took that route: 3 units, two good motors in total. I believe I was really lucky.

As said before, LEGO motors from that time (1990's) suffered from degrading magnets, which in the Cybermaster case were disc shaped. The early 9V Technic mini-motor has a comparable internal setup regarding the magnets: Some of them in my collection were also completely "blocked" (after decades) = dead; no chance to turn the axle at all, even with brute force. I took two apart and what seemed to happen was that either the plating of the magnetic material cracked, and then the magnetic material degraded = oxidized = gained volume and thus came in contact with the static motor parts - or the magnetic material itself was faulty and cracked the plating. Either way: The magnets basically failed by getting thicker :D

On 4/21/2023 at 7:07 PM, Cyber Master said:

Didn't know motor #3 current could be measured, can't remember i used that with the original software or was that even possible?

Well, it is programmed into the Cybermaster firmware. I also have no clue whether the original CM software had access to such data. However, NQC has - and it is just using Cybermaster byte codes as provided by TLG. I also don't have any idea about a Cybermaster SDK or the like. I just know that NQC has access to these data (tried it).

It is as it was and continues to be: TLG likes us to find out about their built-in features. As it was back then; as it is right now. For whatever reason. I will never ever get that.

Best wishes,
Thorsten       

Edited April 23, 20231 yr by Toastie

On 4/23/2023 at 9:05 PM, Toastie said:

I took that route: 3 units, two good motors in total. I believe I was really lucky.

Well... i got 4 complete cyber master sets + 6 extra main units... so within 20 motors there should be working ones... right?...right?!?... so 2 out of the 20 worked for a week and then hit the same fate...

Edit: Hm, now im tempted to buy more cyber master units...

Edited April 24, 20231 yr by Cyber Master

22 minutes ago, Cyber Master said:

so 2 out of the 20 worked for a week and then hit the same fate...

Oh man ... sorry. That is bad.

But then there is even another issue, as what I described was more or less a thing of time. Not operation. Hmmm - thinking about that ... maybe they were still OKish, but when they were operated after a long time, the cracks were really going bad ... well, honestly? No idea. We can sue them () - no, we can't, but ...

I believe, we should "open" the bad ones and see what happened. I am a bit short of time, but I will crack open the "bad" ones.

Best,
Thorsten