2007 Bionicle

[Zarkan]

Definition: Blood. :-P

Yep, Greg confirmed that TLC has decided to make a bloodthirsty bionicle that has remains of his meals on his weapons and face. Gruesome, but in some ways cool. I don't really care though, because I basicly hate Pridak X-D (his face is horible!). He is really the only one I can say that about, though, so overal I am still pleased with the Barraki. ;-)

[Kynok]

Wow! Blood? Just a year ago LEGO was afraid to call the weapons "weapons" so they replaced it with "tool". Now they have blood? They sure are raising the bar... I think the blood on Pridak's face makes him look like a bird. Do BIONICLEs even have blood?

Anyways. I guess the gold a gunmetal colors have made the silver stuff more bearable. But still... A red katana or something would be nice.

-Kynok

[Dino_Bot]

Well, she gave me an answer. If I'm Capricorn, No, otherwise yes...I am...otherwsie, therefore the Barakki will be mine. Been decided. *y* Now I gotta make more Space or turn my Piraka into Irnakk and the other thing.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

*shrug*

I give up on debating and arguing Bionicle. For me, at least, Bionicle is now officially DEAD. More specifically, poor set design and Greg Farshtey have killed it.

*sigh*

[Kahgarak]

People,the red on Pridak is probably not blood.It's been confirmed that most Bionicle species have silver blood,in fact it is Protodermic.

But maybe there are a few fish around Mahri Nui that have red blood...and Pridak feeds on them.

[Zane]

The red is blood from organic creatures like birds and organic fish.

It hasn't been confirmed anywhere that the Toa have silver blood. *Bionicle geek*

[KMOI]

I really hope the red is just a result of a personal colour choice rather than blood. The fact that anything in the Bionicle-verse has blood really knocks me for a loop. When I thought characters "die", they'd just dissassemble cleanly, but still can't be put back together. Now they have blood!?

Well then, looks like I'm joining Lord Admiral's crew.

EDIT: Ah, I see. Wait, organic fish? Aren't they all supposed to be made of technic parts? Or did they change that already?

[Zane]

Bah, it's interchangable. Some are Biomechanical, some are organic. Depends how the story team feel.

[Zarkan]

More specifically, poor set design and Greg Farshtey have killed it.

Um, why in blazes did GregF help kill it? He's done just the opposite when it comes to story (IMO), and he has said many times that he has nothing to do with designing the sets. Why do you think that the story is so horible, anyway? I've read the books, and they fit in with bionicle just fine (Remember Karzahini in Bionicle Legends 2? Or how about the shadowy character of Axxon?).

[Zane]

C'mon dude, this is just getting silly. Compare 2001-2003 with 2004-2006. The latter of which were basically shaped by Greg. They added so much detail and overwhelming back story to the simplicity and coolness of the former. Completely different type of storylines, which some people dislike. It's not hard to figure out, mate.

[Dark_Avenger]

If Greg didn't fight for them the Toa Nuva wouldn't have been seen in the 2006 story at all. You blame him for 'killing' Bionicle when he's simply one of a team of people that create the story. In retrospect he's doing what he can to preserve things that are more than a year old from the story.

With the organic creatures, it's not "some are bio, some aren't, whatever they feel like making them," it's that everything in the Matoran's world (which is supposed to be underground - Mata Nui the island was the only place to turn to escape Metru Nui, Voya Nui used to be underground until the cataclysm). What IS organic are sea birds (like in the original Onua building himself animation) and some plantlife on Mata Nui - the surface, mind you, which isn't where the Matoran were meant to inhabit. Pridak has blood (yes, it's been confirmed to be blood) because the location next year is underwater in the above-ground world, meaning there would be organic fish like we know them for Pridak to feed on and get the blood from. And Greg also said this explanation is "a hint and a half" for the big picture, which I think is that the above-ground world is our planet and that the Matoran are supposed to be underground.

[Zane]

I should just point out that I'm not the one saying he's killed Bionicle. However if your theory of it all being in the real world is correct, then he will indeed have killed it. :P

Also, Mahri-Nui isn't above ground. It's beneath V-N (hence the whole water thing....).

[Dark_Avenger]

It's on the ocean above-ground. Same one around Mata and Voya Nui. And if it's set on Earth that automatically means Greg made that story decision on his own and effectively killed Bionicle? I wouldn't like the theory to come true, but if anyone set that premise it would have been Bob Thompson, the old head of the story team, before he left Bionicle.

Don't blame Greg. Blame the story team.

[Zarkan]

C'mon dude, this is just getting silly. Compare 2001-2003 with 2004-2006. The latter of which were basically shaped by Greg. They added so much detail and overwhelming back story to the simplicity and coolness of the former. Completely different type of storylines, which some people dislike. It's not hard to figure out, mate.

But, a lot of people also like the new storyline dirrection, including me. I know there is a difference between 2001 and 2006, but they still have many things in common. Mystery. Suspense. Interesting powers and characters. Complex, not just beat em up action. And a storyline unlike any other right now. ;-)

[KMOI]

Complex? Suspense? Not-so-much beat 'em up action? Unlike ANY other storyline?

*Points at signature and avatar*

If you're looking for some REAL mystery, REAL suspense and REAL unique use of powers, then you better turn on your TV, because Avatar is where it's at. I could do a sale pitch right here, right now, but I'm not really feeling in the mood. And because this is a Bionicle thread. :-P

Anyways, Grevious, ALOT of people like GregF is doing. As I'm sure you know, the entire BZP idolizes Greg as if he's some revered celetrial figure. Point I'm tyring to say is that here, we can actually express what we really feel. I get it if you like this new tone. I respect that. But you have to respect other's positions, such as my own. No matter how much you try to discredit or slander my position, I will not budge. Call me an old fool, but I can be one if I so wish it.

Anyways, as many of you know, I'm STRONGLY against this new direction. Once again, I'll state it in bold, black and white.

I am against this new direction.

There, I said it. Now, to address some points.

If Greg didn't fight for them the Toa Nuva wouldn't have been seen in the 2006 story at all. You blame him for 'killing' Bionicle when he's simply one of a team of people that create the story. In retrospect he's doing what he can to preserve things that are more than a year old from the story.

Simply one of the team? Yeah, Guess you could say that. But, GregF is the writer (As credited in the comics and books). This means he gets to decide what's done with the storyline. And to be honest, I agree entirely with the Lord Admiral. He's made an insult out of the Toa Nuva. I'd rather have the Toa Nuva dead in some glorious battle that actually would have been worthy of their name. I would rather have Tahu, Kopaka, Gali, Lewa, Pohatu and Onua dead than to be downgraded to a lowly "Toa" status that they are now. Prior to Voya-Nui, they were the Toa Nuva. So powerful to the point they risked leveling the entire island. Remember the Bohrok-Kal saga? Gali Nuva almost sunk Ga-Koro with a mere fraction of her power. They were not just normal Toa. These were the most powerful Toa to exist up until Metru-Nui and that horrid retcon that added hundreds, if not thousands of Toa to the universe.

The Piraka were a group of professional Toa-hunters. The Toa Nuva were so much more than just normal, run-of-the-mill Toa. And when the clashed, the Toa Nuva went out without even a wimper. I expected this to be the battle to end ALL battles. I expected part of Voya-Nui to be blown into oblivion from the raw might of the Toa Nuva's untamed power. Instead, we never got to see it. The Toa Nuva suddenly lacked the essential powers that made them "Nuva." No more extreme element usage, no more extreme unchecked power of the masks. The Toa Nuva suddenly became like what they were before, except for a little bit of tin-foil armor. It was perhaps the most disappointing point in my Bionicle fandom, and is ultimately why I put Bionicle behind for good.

It's on the ocean above-ground. Same one around Mata and Voya Nui. And if it's set on Earth that automatically means Greg made that story decision on his own and effectively killed Bionicle?

Firstly, Bionicle isn't on Earth. Even though that "highly acclaimed" (Sarcasm people, sarcasm) Save the band campaign would suggest otherwise, I never even remotely recall Bionicle being on Earth. That is, unless, that the Bionicleverse somehow takes part somewhere on one of those tropical islands in the Pacific ocean. In that case, that would explain the blood. Pridak was merely feasting on unfortunate surfers.

Secondly, when did anyone mention that Greg killed the storyline because it's set somewhere in the Bionicleverse? I don't know about other disenchanted fans, but my main gripe with the Greg is the sheer inconsistancies and his continued use of the "reset" button on characters or plot points that have been long standing. I'm not a professional writer, but I do know what appeals to me and what doesn't. I like a story that stays consistant. You've heard my rant on the Toa Nuva's depowerment at the hands of the Voya Nui saga. And I'm sure you're also aware that the Toa Nuva fought the Bohrok-Kal without their Kanohi-Nuva powers. (I'm talking about the shared power thing) What about Metru-Nui? Sure, it was intricate, but it left more questions than it answered. To this date, we STILL don't know who the Toa Nuva really are or where they came from. Even though Greg did maintain that they just fell out of the sky, Turaga Lihkan says they're just matoran from Metru-Nui.

Oh, and don't forget those massive personality shifts for the Toa. Lewa went from a wise-cracking, semi-angsty, but serious-when-it-mattered hero to another Le-Matoran who spouts corny and irrelevant treespeak comments every single moment he's shown. That's the main one, but there are other discrepancies in the other Toa too. Oh, and don't forget how even though their bios say they're different, not many of the Toa Inika retained their old personalities.

So, why do I blame Greg?

Personally, I think he killed the OLD Bionicle. The simple, but remarkably interesting storyline where we actually got to see more of the characters themselves. There was actually a time when we could actually see more to the characters than just those bland stereotypes we have now! Even though Tahu's bio said he was the "angry one", he sure wasn't angry all the time. Kopaka was cast as the silent one, yet when it came to the comics, he was more of a Batman. He talked, but with a certain indrescribable edge. Sure, we didn't have a million different islands with a million Toa and some unnessarily large, untrackable line of villians, but that's what made Bionicle unique to me.

So, yes, Greg did kill the old way of Bionicle after doing a fantastic job up until the Metru-Nui saga, but he's created a new one. To me, this new approach just isn't floating my boat, and that's why I've traded in my love of Bionicle for Avatar, a theme that actually appeals to me in the ways Bionicle once did.

Oh and waaaaaay back on topic, even though I've dropped my love of the Bionicleverse, I'm still going to pick up some sets. While the Pridak looks less appealing then before, I still like it for his weapons. Though I have to admit, those legs are horrid! Why would anyone ever think reusing the Rahkshi leg structure would be GOOD for a Barakki?

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

KMOI... You are MY celestial figure ^_^

Thank you for putting into words what i've been griping about for over a year now.

[Ecto]

Before I start, let me say '01-'03 was AWESOME.

Now, before 2004, we had the same old characters rehashed and reused, but now the story has an incredible depth, and now the villains are a real challenge. So now, whoever said you couldn't rewrite the entire Nuva/Piraka battle, but have the story go on the way it has? Thats what fanfics are for. Please, oh please don't gripe and groan about one little confrontation between your personal favorite heroes (mine too) and the Piraka. It was a little brutal to "kill off" the Nuva, I agree, but that battle was pretty cool, regardless of who won and who fought. The bad guys finally won. You may be a big fan of the Nuva (as am I) ,and I respect your opinion, but do you think you could accept that, yes, the Nuva lost, and yes, the Inika won, and just go on with life? Please?

Ah well. I sure do know how to ramble, eh? X-D

[KMOI]

Take note, I never said the bad guys shouldn't win. If the Nuva are dead, then it's definately indesputable that the Piraka won. If the Toa Nuva are dead, than it's obvious the Piraka won. I don't know how you read my post, but I clearly state, that battle was mockery of the Toa Nuva. Oh, and I'm sure you know how absolutely inaccurate that statement is about one itty bitty battle. You know that it's because of that battle, the Toa Nuva were effectively shafted for the rest of the year.

Killing the Toa Nuva off? Brutal, yes. But I cannot see how this is less "brutal" than having a character, regardless of affiliation (hero or villian), wearing the reminants of his meal as a fashion statement. Note, I hold no grudge against LEGO for the inclusion of fish blood on the Pridak. It actually adds on to an otherwise normal design.

Secondly, I'd like to know how before 2004, all the characters were "rehashed", as you put it. Infact, I believe in the exact opposite. Ever read the first comics involving the original 6? The Toa actually didn't act to their stereotypes as posted on the LEGO website. In the Metru saga, I literally could not tell the difference between Nuju, Nokama, Whenua and Onewa. If it wasn't for their colours, I could honestly not tell one apart from the other. Heck, the only thing that separated Vakama from that was the fact that he had visions all the time. If it wasn't for that, I don't think I would tell the difference between any of the Metru Toa, nevermind the 4 I mentioned earlier.

And I never ONCE said that the story didn't have depth. I just think it's depth in the wrong direction. Why make a universe full of billions of islands with billions of Toa squads with ungodly amounts of villians? Heck, I don't know how many named villians there are in Bionicle any more. If that's depth to you, then great. But as I said, I like a storyline which focuses on the character's personalities rather than focusing on fleshing out every single gritty little detail of the world they live in. I don't need to know who some random Dark Hunter who's said one line is. I don't need to know an obscure details about how Le-Metruians get around town. And I certainly don't need to know 500 different teams of Toa by name and power.

Thirdly, when in the WORLD did I not say I got over it? I got over Bionicle (Nevermind Greg's writing)COMPLETELY. Read the last paragraphs. Read my profile. It's everywhere. Here's just one of the times I state it:

To me, this new approach just isn't floating my boat, and that's why I've traded in my love of Bionicle for Avatar, a theme that actually appeals to me in the ways Bionicle once did.

This said, I still love Bionicle sets, as their designs and pieces are becoming more and more useful in putting together things that I wanted to build when I first started out liking Bionicle. To be honest, I absolutely love all the sets they've put out (With the exception of the Hordika saga). I just don't follow the storyline that closely any more.

[Kahgarak]

Simply one of the team? Yeah, Guess you could say that. But, GregF is the writer (As credited in the comics and books). This means he gets to decide what's done with the storyline. And to be honest, I agree entirely with the Lord Admiral. He's made an insult out of the Toa Nuva. I'd rather have the Toa Nuva dead in some glorious battle that actually would have been worthy of their name. I would rather have Tahu, Kopaka, Gali, Lewa, Pohatu and Onua dead than to be downgraded to a lowly "Toa" status that they are now. Prior to Voya-Nui, they were the Toa Nuva. So powerful to the point they risked leveling the entire island. Remember the Bohrok-Kal saga? Gali Nuva almost sunk Ga-Koro with a mere fraction of her power. They were not just normal Toa. These were the most powerful Toa to exist up until Metru-Nui and that horrid retcon that added hundreds, if not thousands of Toa to the universe.

The Piraka were a group of professional Toa-hunters. The Toa Nuva were so much more than just normal, run-of-the-mill Toa. And when the clashed, the Toa Nuva went out without even a wimper. I expected this to be the battle to end ALL battles. I expected part of Voya-Nui to be blown into oblivion from the raw might of the Toa Nuva's untamed power. Instead, we never got to see it. The Toa Nuva suddenly lacked the essential powers that made them "Nuva." No more extreme element usage, no more extreme unchecked power of the masks. The Toa Nuva suddenly became like what they were before, except for a little bit of tin-foil armor. It was perhaps the most disappointing point in my Bionicle fandom, and is ultimately why I put Bionicle behind for good.

I'll have to agree with that.The Nuva should have used their elemental power to the maximum.I mean,c'mon!A sword fight?Why not create a cage of Protodermis right away,or have Lewa blow the Piraka in the volcano?

[dviddy]

Before I start, let me say '01-'03 was AWESOME.

Now, before 2004, we had the same old characters rehashed and reused, but now the story has an incredible depth, and now the villains are a real challenge. So now, whoever said you couldn't rewrite the entire Nuva/Piraka battle, but have the story go on the way it has? Thats what fanfics are for. Please, oh please don't gripe and groan about one little confrontation between your personal favorite heroes (mine too) and the Piraka. It was a little brutal to "kill off" the Nuva, I agree, but that battle was pretty cool, regardless of who won and who fought. The bad guys finally won. You may be a big fan of the Nuva (as am I) ,and I respect your opinion, but do you think you could accept that, yes, the Nuva lost, and yes, the Inika won, and just go on with life? Please?

Ah well. I sure do know how to ramble, eh? X-D

You're friggin kidding me, right?

Before Bob left, we had characters shown on-line that were not sets. Characters featured prominently. We had actual characterization. Tahu vs Kopaka for leadership, and they have to put it aside to win. It was mysterious. We had all the back-story we ever needed. The toa were mighty heroes of legend. Makuta was an intangible villain, with a darkness we couldn't fathom, but a motive we could. He was jealous.

Greg takes the reins. What do we get? Toa groups with interchangeable members. Take any 'Le' member of a toa group, and he can be exchanged for another. Take any 'Ga' toa, and exchange her for another. It works. They're all the same.

Before Greg, there were 12 mask types. And they were the whole point of '01. Now we have numberless masks, and the entire mask hunt from 2001 is now meaningless.

The Nuva were downgraded, their characters retconned, their personalities abandoned.

And throwing out all the on-line games as 'non-canon' is a dang shame too. Now we get 'some of the events happened as you saw them, but not most of them'. The heck?

Greg doesn't seem capable of writing actual characters. He writes stereotypes. And don't throw the 'you do better, then' crap at me. I'm a lit major. This is what we do. We pick apart novels and stories.

As for 'write a fanfic then!' Step off. That's not the point. I could rewrite whatever the heck I felt like. But that's not the friggin' point. The story shouldn't need to be fanfic'd the heck up.

But this is why I'm a MOCist. Because the story sucks, and has since that first movie.

Bah.

<<DV>>

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

O'course, if Greg were reading this, he'd site that every comic book series has always had non-canon stuff, so its OK for BIONICLE to do it, and that cheap stereotypes sell well to Bionicles target auidience: Your average video-game-psyched 5 year old.

[Zane]

And don't throw the 'you do better, then' crap at me.

Just to add to your pwnage, I also want to point out that the above idea also couldn't be a good argument, seeing as Greg is PAID to write the storyline, and it's his responsibility. I once asked him what one Matoran in one of his books looked like, and he said something like "I don't think about how they look.". It shows a lack of understanding towards the series - like the Matoran was just thrown in or something.

This probably makes no sense because I'm incredibly tired....but hopefully you'll get the gist...

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

I do :)

Oh, and as for the "Lets see you do better" argument... I already have ;) And ima gonna publish it sometime this winter.

Basically, I like playing with my sets. I like coming up with cool storyline premesis, throwing my Toa into it, and making it up as I go along. It is QUITE fun.

Currently, im working with the Toa Metru, giving them addition items, elongating/making up storyline, etc etc. I have already rewritten the universe into something much more character driven then universe driven - For example, there is only 1 island, Metru-Nui, which eventually gets turned into Mata-Nui, and when it does, Voya-Nui splits off. And thats it ^_^ So aye, once I finish with Pirates of the Archipalego, i'll write it up for others enjoyment. Oh, and to prove I can do better then Greggers :P Its through this fanfic-verse that i've been able to keep my interest in Bionicle.

Well, anyhow, b'tween KMOI and a few others here, my point of view has already pretty much been stated, so... yeah.... *sweet*

[Zarkan]

Um guys, the Nuva aren't dead. They won't be for at least another year, either, since Greg said they will play a (possibly large) part in 2007. So, unless you meant their death in a figurative sense, your rambiling about the Nuva isn't completly justified since they will be coming back and fighting later in the story.

But, I'm tired of arguring, so I'll stop trying to convince you guys that 2007 is looking up. ;-)

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Yes. They are dead metiphorically speaking, as in, their personalities are dead and any semblance of how kick-megablocks they were supposed to be is dead when they got beaten in a disgustingly bland way.

And thats not a problem because to us at least, 2007 is looking to be worse then 2006 :P