2007 Bionicle

[Zarkan]

THIS... Is Bionicle.

Helden, I really think you need to lighten up. I mean, sure, it's okay to hate 2007 if you want to, but making the vast majority of your posts in this part of the forum include something about "the wasteland 2007 is" or "the end of bionicle" or "this is real bionicle, not this," and using all those posts to expose the "true bionicle" (2001 in your opinion), is really a waste of time (IMO). I mean, we all know that you hate Bionicle now, so why do you persist in stating your hatred again and again? It seems kind of pointless to me, especially since your last post had nothing to do with this topic whatsoever. :-/

(note: I'm not attacking you. I just don't understand why you are doing this.)

[KMOI]

For the luvva...

Ravensburg has every right to post. If I'm not mistaken, there's no requirement to love Bionicle in these topics. His opinion, though simple, is valid. And yes, it is on topic. He's just saying Bionicle's moved in the wrong direction recently. That's his opinion. If you don't like it, then fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Unlike BZPower, there's no requirement to love Bionicle here. We can critisize it however we please.

And I don't really see how your disclaimer is valid any more. You just pit-roasted Ravensburg saying that all of his posts in this topic are useless. In my eyes, his posts are anything but useless. He's pretty well much the wake-up call that Bionicle needs. If you take the time to look through the previous pages, you'll see all our points. I'm not going to take the time to rewrite all 4+ pages of it, so you'll have to explore it on your own. I've said it once and I'll say it before. We respect the Bionicle fan's views and we leave them be. We don't attack them by saying their praises may lack no weight or are "pointless". We expect the same treatment when we share our gripes. This is Eurobricks, not BZP.

Anyhow, I'm kinda digging Nocturn. This was more along the lines of what I expected for the canister sets, considering the simple leg and arm structure. Since it's at another price point, I'll skip out on this one along with the other Barraki. With the recent photos of the Pridak, it seems too far gone for any hope of help. Oh well! Here's to hoping that the Toa Mahri look better. *Prays for the Mahri to be upgrades of the original 6*

[Darkness Falls]

Oh well! Here's to hoping that the Toa Mahri look better. *Prays for the Mahri to be upgrades of the original 6*

Doubt it. It's a fact that Lego wouldn't make it like that.

I'm seriously thinking that 2008 (the year this next story arc ends) will be the last year for Bionicle. This year, they've just gone wild with the sets, pleasing (some) fans with uniqueness, and the storyline just seems absolute. Whatever, though.

Nocturn... what to say? I'm going to get him rather than some Barraki, just because some look "eh" to me. Other than him, Ehlek, Takadox, and Mantax... I won't hunt for any other sets this year.

[Zarkan]

For the luvva...

:-|

KMOI, I think we need to review your post.

Ravensburg has every right to post. If I'm not mistaken, there's no requirement to love Bionicle in these topics. His opinion, though simple, is valid. And yes, it is on topic. He's just saying Bionicle's moved in the wrong direction recently. That's his opinion. If you don't like it, then fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Unlike BZPower, there's no requirement to love Bionicle here. We can critisize it however we please.

First of all, I never said he didn't have a right to post. I know that he does, and I stated that this was my OPIONION, not pure fact! And, "IMO", posting a screen clip showing a 2001 video in a "2007 sets topic" is not on topic at all. Not that his opinion is wrong or bad, it's just that things like this lead to problems. And when I mean problems, I mean starting a discuscion on 2001 and getting totally off topic, not even focusing on 2007 at all. Not that this will ever happen, but I've seen how topics on Eurobricks can get wildy off topic, going from a discuscion about a 8 year olds crime to an explination of racial ethics (yes there is a topic here with that case) And frankly, I'm sick of it. Yes, this isn't BZP, which I know well, but still, can't we at least stay on topic?

Also, since when did I say that critiscm is bad? I have criticized things lego has done, and so has eveybody else here! And I don't love Bionicle completely, either, as I said in another topic. Where in blazes did you get that from?

You just pit-roasted Ravensburg saying that all of his posts in this topic are useless

And you know why? Because they don't explain anything. The big problem with Ravensburgs posts are that all he says is "2007 is a wasteland," without explaning why! Yes, I will probably get panned for this, but at least here, I agree with GregF. How can anybody use these posts if they don't explain their opionion at all?

Now, I am NOT saying we have to make page long posts about why we hate or like something. I'm just saying we have to at least give a clue why we don't like a set or a piece! Like, for example, Ravensburg could have said "2007 is a wasteland. Look at that hideous face, and look at the poor construction. Ugh, why couldn't they have made it less thrown together and stick like?" Instead, all he said was "2007 is a wasteland." Now, some people might get a clue about why he said that, but other members will just think he has no real reason for saying that, or that he can not explain it at all! (I don't think that, BTW)

This is why I responded to him like that. I mean, really, is it that hard to devote a sentence to saying why you hate something? I often ask questions to people because I don't have a clue why they responded like that, and it really gets annoying when everybody makes generic statements without even telling anybody why they said it! When I make posts about new sets, I usually give reasons why I like it or hate it, and so do many other people, because it is not hard to do!

So you see, this is not about Ravensburg's opinion at all. This is about the fact that he sounds like he has no reason for saying his opinions (I know he does, but I have no clue what), and that I am sick of people saying 3 words statements and not backing them up at all!

Note that this is again all IMO.

[KMOI]

*sad*

Grevious, I think YOU need to review both my own and YOUR OWN posts.

I don't believe I ever said some of the things you quoted me on, but noticing the tag hanging out there, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and think you just made an error with the quote tags. (You wouldn't believe how many times I've done it myself)

And you know why? Because they don't explain anything. The big problem with Ravensburgs posts are that all he says is "2007 is a wasteland," without explaning why! Yes, I will probably get panned for this, but at least here, I agree with GregF. How can anybody use these posts if they don't explain their opionion at all?

I see you've obviously missed out on the past 4+ pages of this topic in which you yourself may have been involved with. See, my point is that in Eurobricks, there's continuity. We read the posts that have been previously made by the author. I honestly hope this is the very LAST TIME I have to say this, but this isn't BZP. It's not nessesary to copy and paste your previously stated arguments as a lead into something you're saying. Our threads read like a book, not some wretched collage of ideas. It's a simple DIFFERENCE OF STYLE.

Yes, this isn't BZP, which I know well, but still, can't we at least stay on topic?

We're comparing 2007's storyline to older ones. And if I'm not mistaken, the title of this thread is, and I quote in massive bold letters:

2007 Bionicle

Until we start talking about robotic sheep or posting links to trailers to "Rocky Balboa", then we're not "wildly off topic", as you put it.

How can anybody use these posts if they don't explain their opionion at all?

When I make posts about new sets, I usually give reasons why I like it or hate it, and so do many other people, because it is not hard to do!

I'll do this for the sake of repetition. Eurobrick threads read like BOOKS. You don't see Hemmingway's "Old Man and the Sea" explicitly recapping events from, persay, Chapter 1 in Chapter 2, do you? I don't know about my fellow Eurobrickers, but I take the time to read the previous page of comments, if not the entire thread. Sure, we live in a hustle and bustle society, but it's good to take time to admire the finer things in life. I'm telling you as a fact, reading discussions here bring new light into any average person's day.

Lord forbid that one day we have to repeat ourselves over and over again just to get a point across. Then we would have truly reached a point of no return.

But, If you like to like to read at face value because it's too long to read the past pages of the thread (I feel your pain, dial-uppers, and even fellow DSLers! And fellow students with exams!), I've got a real treat for you. I have the rare, EXTENDED edition of his post! Well, not really. But I've mashed up Admiral's related posts into one simple, easy to understand post. Hope this helps! :-)

My main problem is its cheap plasticy feel. It doesnt *LOOK* like a Bionicle. It looks like a generic action story villian exept with a lot of technic holes in it.

Never thought that Lego would start making stuff that looks like their cheesy chinese knock-offs.

For me, at least, Bionicle is now officially DEAD. More specifically, poor set design and Greg Farshtey have killed it.

2006-7, with greg at the helm, takes what was the glory of old bionicle and punts it into the mud.

2007 is a barren wasteland for Bionicle.

The mash-up isnt exactly as glorified as the Admiral put it (That's lack of context for ya), but it gets the point across. HE NO LIKEY 2007. PERIOD.

And as a final nitpick:

Note that this is again all IMO.

I (Hopefully all of us too) get the point. If you post it, then it's generally assumed it's by you. That is, unless you quoted some noted scholar's opinion without referencing... Which means one thing! Lawsuits galore!

Oh, and I totally agree with you, Darkness. Simply put, there appears to be no limit to this other than the fact it's underwater. Other than that, it's free game. Not to sure if they're closing it up or not, but if they do, 2008 will be a year to remember. Or so we hope. In terms of storyline, it seems GregF could use some new ideas people. That's the only way to go if you want to keep Bionicle running for a long, long time. I mean honestly. An underwater city that's identified mainly by a giant air bubble? Kinda reminds me more of the new Aqua Raiders than Bionicle. Crossovers, anyone? ;-)

[Kynok]

I'm lonivin' Nocturn. His color scheme rocks. I will definatly pick one of them off the shelfs.

Here is my opinion:

2001 is overated. Sure it was cool and fun. But I always hear on BZP and Eurobricks that the BIONICLE storyline is repeitive. AND IT IS! But wouldn't it be even more repetitive if it was all like 2001? Let me hear your thoughts on this so I can understand what you guys are thinking.

[KMOI]

Kinda see what angle you're taking there, Kynok. But for me, there's good repetitive and bad repetitive. Let's take Avatar for example. Simple basic "structure" in both seasons. Got to get to place "a", travel there, meet interesting people, character development, lead-up to climax and then all out, full throttle, no holds barred finale. Yes, they invent stuff sometimes, but within reasonable limits.

Currently, Bionicle (for me) falls into the latter catagory or repetitive. It lacks all the crucial elements that adds universal "sticky" value to it. The "character development" is generic at best and the plot's become pretty cookie cutter shaped. The climax often comes too quickly and extremely underwhelming. Take 2006's ending. Vezon and spider beats down Piraka as if they were rag dolls. Inika charge in and they too get beaten down. Vezon laughs in typical villian glating scene. Jala pulls out Axonn's miracle plot device and singlehandedly stops Vezon. Climatic? Not really. It happened all within one comic. And it wasn't exactly riveting either. While the art was better than in previous comics, it went along the lines of this. Toa fire generic power beams at Vezon. Vezon fires gerneric power beam at Toa. Repeat and stir.

What I liked about 2001-2003 was the style it was written in. It's difficult to say what it was exactly, but it made the Toa feel human. I've said this BILLIONS of times, but I guess I'll have to reitterate my points. There was character development. We got to see inside each and every Toa. Each comic was there to build up on the plot, adding REAL twists and turns, such as Lewa's capture. That fight between Onua and Lewa was incredible. It wasn't just "he saw friend and freed himself". There was a fight. There was intriguing dialogue. And in the end, the solution came from within, which really made the entire thing worth the effort of watching.

As for the storyline, it was so simple. Simplicity is a good thing. 6 Toa. 1 evil. Island is at stake. Yeah, it's simple, but personality made it so much more "deep". That one evil didn't have dozens of named lieutenants. He was mysterious (No bodily form) and his power was intangible. Nobody knew what he was truly capable of. Not even us.

As for Toa, that was simple too. There were 6. We now have millions. You can argue more is better, but not for Bionicle. Since the creation of Metru-Nui, we've been introduced to so many Toa that we don't even know who is who. In 2001, we knew who our heroes are and we could even call out their masks by NAME. They had dynamic personalities. Each comic revealed something new to us. Now? ALL the Toa teams have static personalities. They can be slotted into generic stereotypes. The "brooding" one, the "angry" one, the "wise" one, the "joker". Sound familiar? Those are the personalities of all the new Toa teams since Metru.

So as you can see, I'm not asking for constant rehashes of the 2001 saga here. I'm asking for the 2001-2003 STYLE of writing. One villian with unlimited potential, 6 Toa who we learn more and more about with each passing saga, and character development (Of heroes and Matoran. Exposing mysterious villian is a big no no).

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

will post an in depth response when my hands heal

[Ecto]

When your hands heal? What?

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Last week sometime my hands blistered all to ruttin hell for no adequetly explored reason - They're only really starting to heal now. I'm talking about giant multiple-finger-joint spanning blisters - I was down to typing with two fingers when I wrote that last note. I can type with both hands now but its mildly painful.

[Kynok]

Last week sometime my hands blistered all to ruttin hell for no adequetly explored reason - They're only really starting to heal now. I'm talking about giant multiple-finger-joint spanning blisters - I was down to typing with two fingers when I wrote that last note. I can type with both hands now but its mildly painful.

Ouch! Thats sucks! My friend had a simalar experience. Except his injury was a broken hand from punching the wall. "Anger managment" I told him... He got pretty good at typing with one hand, though...

[hewkii9]

ALL the Toa teams have static personalities. They can be slotted into generic stereotypes. The "brooding" one, the "angry" one, the "wise" one, the "joker". Sound familiar? Those are the personalities of all the new Toa teams since Metru.

Of course, now, they mixed it up.

Greeny's brooding,

Nup's alaughing,

Hahli's angry[if you were trying to get to an object that gave you migraines, so would you]

and Noone's really that smart.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read any on 2006's books, and the comics give no character insight at all, anymore. Other then 'Piraka are evil' and soon, 'Barakki are evil'. 'PURE evil'.

These days, Makuta's just misunderstood. Haven't you ever given your brother sleeping pills and tried to break his action figures?

Personally, I'm quite done with the storyline. When I first heard about the Piraka and saw the pics, I was like, "Aw, sweet! These corrupted heroes are actually trying to steal a all-powerful mask... AWESOME!" And since Greg had stated this storyline arc would be more like the '01-'03, I geared up for some Toa-esque creatures with slightly Makuta-like morals.

It is like '01. It's on the surface.

[legomilk]

new sets

new sets

[Darkness Falls]

Not new sets, chief. Promos that certain places sell. Certain countries, actually.

It is like '01. It's on the surface.

He said he'd delve into the Matoran Legends more. Karzahni is the only example of that. A good one, by the way... he was a great character before getting cast aside for the "real story."

These days, Makuta's just misunderstood. Haven't you ever given your brother sleeping pills and tried to break his action figures?

You see, if people would understand that, they'd realize that Makuta was way more evil than MoL and LoMN portrayed him.

Good explanation of it.

[Dino_Bot]

I portray Makuta as a sadistic, evil, racist monster who murders w/o contempt.

Someone who thinks he's the judge, jury and executioner of the entire Bionicle planet, and who also happens to be everywhere.

In other words, the most dangerous and evil villain since Ra's Al Gh

[Lord Thrawn]

Buy one. See if you like it, then make the decision.

[herrluke]

Wow... weird names... especially the first one.

Guess time...

- Titan -

8934 Polypenwerfer - poly = multi so... maybe some kind of fusion.

- Canisters -

8932 Morak - fire

8931 Thulox - earth

8929 Defilak - water

8930 Dekar - air

- Small box -

8921 Pridak - stone

8918 Carapar - air

8916 Takadox -fire

8917 Kalmah - water

8920 Ehlek - ice

8919 Mantax - earth

Sorry, you got it wrong, the first one is the weapon ammo, the second group are the small boxes, the third group are the canisters, and there is a titan which is called nocturn. I don't know the set number to that last one, though I do know it is a bad guy.

herrluke

[Echo]

Sorry, you got it wrong, the first one is the weapon ammo, the second group are the small boxes, the third group are the canisters, and there is a titan which is called nocturn. I don't know the set number to that last one, though I do know it is a bad guy.

herrluke

That was posted in August, before we knew what they were. Start paying attention to dates.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Heres my in depth reply...

*Sigh*

Rather then re-write and re-word everything, I'll just simply state that KMOI's last few posts have pretty much summed up all of my issues and arguments with Bionicle 2007.

Some would say, "Well, if you hate it so much, why are you still talking about it?". The reason for that is is that I spent from 2001 to early 2006 playing with pretty much nothing but my Bionicle collection. My normal Legos took a second place to them, for Bobs sake. I have been a collector and a fan of BIONICLE since, quite literally, its absolute very beggining. BIONICLE is a very dear fantasy world to me, and is a fantasy world i've been a part of from late childhood into my current teenagerdom.

This is why I feel so wounded at what Greg Farshtey has done to BIONICLE. No, KMOI, there arent millions of Toa - GregF confirmed that at one time, only a mere Three Thousand Toa existed. The origional story tagline was "Six Heroes. One Destiny." Now its "Three Thousand Heroes. No Particular Destiny, or, indeed, Purpose."

I still love Bionicle. I am still buying up sets from 2001-2005. Im still playing out my own story with the Toa Metru. But I mean it when I say that 2007 is, IMHO, a barren wasteland; it has been violated of all that made it Bionicle. The heroes are stiff superhero stereotypes, the action is normal super-hero-grade bland violence, the world is now vast and nonsensical, ruled by a comic book writer with delusions of granduer.

- Helden

[Chuck]

Heres my in depth reply...

*Sigh*

Rather then re-write and re-word everything, I'll just simply state that KMOI's last few posts have pretty much summed up all of my issues and arguments with Bionicle 2007.

Some would say, "Well, if you hate it so much, why are you still talking about it?". The reason for that is is that I spent from 2001 to early 2006 playing with pretty much nothing but my Bionicle collection. My normal Legos took a second place to them, for Bobs sake. I have been a collector and a fan of BIONICLE since, quite literally, its absolute very beggining. BIONICLE is a very dear fantasy world to me, and is a fantasy world i've been a part of from late childhood into my current teenagerdom.

This is why I feel so wounded at what Greg Farshtey has done to BIONICLE. No, KMOI, there arent millions of Toa - GregF confirmed that at one time, only a mere Three Thousand Toa existed. The origional story tagline was "Six Heroes. One Destiny." Now its "Three Thousand Heroes. No Particular Destiny, or, indeed, Purpose."

I still love Bionicle. I am still buying up sets from 2001-2005. Im still playing out my own story with the Toa Metru. But I mean it when I say that 2007 is, IMHO, a barren wasteland; it has been violated of all that made it Bionicle. The heroes are stiff superhero stereotypes, the action is normal super-hero-grade bland violence, the world is now vast and nonsensical, ruled by a comic book writer with delusions of granduer.

- Helden

My respect for you has just gone up a notch, so you are now at 1 :-P

-l2k-

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

wewt ^_^

[PSPguy]

My local Target got most of the 07 sets so I got Ehlek. I must say he has no arm or leg armor. Also too much articularation if you ask me.

[Zarkan]

This is why I feel so wounded at what Greg Farshtey has done to BIONICLE. No, KMOI, there arent millions of Toa - GregF confirmed that at one time, only a mere Three Thousand Toa existed. The origional story tagline was "Six Heroes. One Destiny." Now its "Three Thousand Heroes. No Particular Destiny, or, indeed, Purpose."

The truth is, GregF didn't do that (at least mostly). I can say that with reasnable confidence, due to a topic I read on BZP. Ravensburg, you are definately not the only one angry about the incredible amount of toa. Some of the Bionicle fans on BZP are also angry about the ammount of toa, although not as much as you or many Eurobricks members. But when asked about this issue, Greg said this (paraphrasing of course): "We have to have new Toa canister sets every year. Either brand new toa, or more transformations. That's your options. Because if we don't, then Bionicle will fail. The majority of the fanbase (8-11 year olds) love the Hero sets the best, and thus the Toa sets sell the best. The only reason 2003 did well without new toa sets was due to the release of the first Bionicle movie, and we can't rely on something like that again."

So, basicly, Toa are what the major fanbase lives on. What Bionicle lives on. The villan sets, although often the coolest, aparrently don't sell nearly as well as the Toa sets, nor does any other bionicle set. This means that we will be seeing new or transformed toa in 2007, 2008, 2009, and beyond. And it's mainly the fanbases fault (as it was with the squid ammo, the Free the band promotion, and everything else Eurobricks has come to hate.).

You know, Ravensburg, I kinda think you should probably give up hope for a new 2001. Not that that's a bad wish (It's very good!), but it just won't happen with the fanbase Bionicle has these days. Really, I understand if you soon quit Bionicle entirely, and I'm sorry that things are going so rotten for you Bioniclewise.

That's really it. :-/

[Ikki o' Moopyville]

The truth is, GregF didn't do that (at least mostly). I can say that with reasnable confidence, due to a topic I read on BZP. Ravensburg, you are definately not the only one angry about the incredible amount of toa. Some of the Bionicle fans on BZP are also angry about the ammount of toa, although not as much as you or many Eurobricks members. But when asked about this issue, Greg said this (paraphrasing of course): "We have to have new Toa canister sets every year. Either brand new toa, or more transformations. That's your options. Because if we don't, then Bionicle will fail. The majority of the fanbase (8-11 year olds) love the Hero sets the best, and thus the Toa sets sell the best. The only reason 2003 did well without new toa sets was due to the release of the first Bionicle movie, and we can't rely on something like that again."

Count the main teams (Nuva, Metru, and Inika) again -- that's 18, and if you add Takanuva, the Hagah, and Lhikan's team of 11, that's another 18, 36 total. ;-) Meaning it is Greg's fault that 3000+ Toa have existed in the Bionicle Universe, as that was an idea of his, nothing deemed necessary by sets or the majority's desires. In fact, we could easily have had less than 50 or 100 Toa total ever to exist, so I believe 'twas a good example of Greg's negative influence on the story.

Heck, I even remember him comparing Toa to police, having them placed as sentries, knocked out by a single eye beam, and so on... I think most people have accepted the idea of various Toa teams -- I know Helden has, too -- but that does not justify 3000+ Toa, and that's where I see the complaints coming from. :-)

-Ikk

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Nay, Grevious, I shall not quit Bionicle soon, because I no-longer " live in " the official BIONICLE 'Verse anymore. I work in my own version of the Bionicle 'Verse. Here is a quick and not very in depth summary of the way I have laid out my Toa teams:

In my 'Verse, there have been 4 Toa teams. The Toa Valan, which you know as Hagah, were the first, and with them was Takanuva. After they sacrificed their powers sealing Makuta and his minions in the Void, they used what little power remained them to create three new Toa - Lhikan, Dume and Nidhiki. Dume became the Turaga of Metru Nui, and Nidhiki betrayed Metru Nui and was in turn cast into the Warp by Lhikan. When Nidhiki and Krekka returned, Lhikan sacrificed his power to create the Toa Metru. After the Great Cataclysm, Metru-Nui was destroyed by the Bohrok and reborn as Mata-Nui. A thousand years later Takua summoned the Toa Inika (mata/olda), and shortly thereafter, Takua found the 7th Toa (who was an independant and new character, NOT him).

Now, I fully understand that the official storyline needs new Toa sets every year to sell. My little 'Verse here doesnt, and I have taken full advantage of that. The point is, however, that, as Ikki said, there was no real need for THREE THOUSAND Toa. The Toa were origionally portrayed as epic figures upon which the future of the BIONICLE world hinged. Now, as Ikki said, we have Toa standing sentry and getting killed by Piraka eyebeams. Oh, feel the epicness.

So, I shall continue to go on developing and playing in my own personal 'Verse. All I can say is that I am immensly dissapointed in what Greg Farshtey has done with Bionicle. It is, in my opinion, a disgrace to the LEGO name. Shoddy sets with small numbers of gigantic duplo-esque parts beause its what the "Target Audience" wants, the emphasis on weapons because of the "TA", and perhaps above all the immensly lame "violence".

As KMOI draws on Avatar for reference, I will now draw on the anime series Bleach for reference. The characters there are immensly powerful, but their powers are INTERESTING and usually counter-balancing, so one can have a truly interesting and entertaining fight between characters. Furthermore, when they fight, they're usually giving it their all. Theres a fair bit of blood and the surroundings almost always get destroyed.

Now lets look at Greg Farshteys battles. We have a lame Gollum-Clone named Vezon picking up a Toa and knocking him headfirst into a wall. We have Toa capable of blasting things into atoms or using their protodermis zamors to destroy things that arent destined to mutate. Not only are these powers so straightforward and overpowering their bland, but the only reason Greg can come up with for them not instantly vaporizing everything in their path is that "Toa dont kill". So its really an issue of politeness.

So, while Greg wants to talk about it being a "dark universe" with "powerful and violent" villians, the actual combat comes out disgustingly lame. In esscence, now do the Toa not only LOOK like power rangers, their battles have about the same charm.

Just my 0.03...