Scubacarrot Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 I think their deaths are fine. Donny and Violetta were expendable to Ulric. I don't know about Steerpike, but he probably is as well. If you're shocked about their deaths... That's the intended effect, I think. Quote
Scorpiox Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 I feel... empty after that. It's like losing a friend in a way that didn't reflect how they lived or how they were destined to go. Completely serious... Quote
Brickdoctor Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Are you sure the plot is failed? What if the plan was to get Baba started, and thats all Ulric needed them for? Maybe the plot is still in motion :shrug-oh-well: That might have been Ulric's or Baba's plan, but I'm sure it wasn't Donny's or Violetta's plan. Quote
Flare Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 That might have been Ulric's or Baba's plan, but I'm sure it wasn't Donny's or Violetta's plan. Yeah, well... Yeah Quote
CMP Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 They failed in a plot to overthrow the Houses. That's pretty epic if you ask me. But the real plot hasn't even shown up yet! I seriously doubt if Quest 66 had failed, every single member of every single house would've died. They probably had specific targets picked out that would've severely damaged relationships between the houses, maybe... Remember that both Donny and Violetta already had the option of getting killed in their respective quests, but the heroes chose otherwise on both times. Even now there was a chance to save them, but two out of the three heroes in the party decided against it, so Patricia put them to the sword. Actions must have consequences. Otherwise there wouldn't be a point in this being an interactive game. Argh. It just seems a shame that Ulric is the only notable Wolfgang member left. I know Donny and Violetta saw themselves as just pawns, but it's like taking the face off the Wolfgang for them to die. All we've heard of Ulric is that he's assumedly the big bad wolf of Eubric, nothing beyond that...it leaves me wondering how the Wolfgang would expect to maintain sway if their three main leaders are dead. Now they just seem like a band of thugs, I doubt most of the goons know anything of Ulric's intentions beyond 'making Eubric better'. Quote
Flare Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Why do I get that feeling that Ulric will appear in 66 soon... Edited May 22, 2013 by Flare Quote
Scubacarrot Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Argh. It just seems a shame that Ulric is the only notable Wolfgang member left. I know Donny and Violetta saw themselves as just pawns, but it's like taking the face off the Wolfgang for them to die. All we've heard of Ulric is that he's assumedly the big bad wolf of Eubric, nothing beyond that...it leaves me wondering how the Wolfgang would expect to maintain sway if their three main leaders are dead. Now they just seem like a band of thugs, I doubt most of the goons know anything of Ulric's intentions beyond 'making Eubric better'. A mind controlling, powerful witch might help with control. And a lot of the Wolfgang seems willing to die for the cause, so I don't think that's a problem. I reckon we are nearing at least a reveal of Ulric's exact intentions/plan (we know he wants to wipe out the houses and control Eubric, but then what? Either pirates will loot Eubric if they have no leadership or the surrounding nations will raze Eubric if they consider the city to be an unstable factor) Also, he took control of Donny and the gang he apparantly had by simply threatening to kill him, making him a werewolf would also help with that. But consider that there are also some other gangs active in Eubric. The Metasimians, and the werehounds/hyena's (Blood paw or something) among others. If Ulric wants more support, perhaps he'll conscript those? Hint, hint. The Wolfgang, even after this defeat(?) are still very much capable, and it's only going to get worse from here. I'm very excited to see where this goes. Quote
Tanma Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 You know while thinking of Skyrim, I had a thought. What if Ulric was really one of the Veterans? Like the Dragonlord. (I say him because Dragonborn) They claimed they had ties to a Veteran, what if they downplayed how big those ties were? Or if they themselves don't know? I know, it is probably crazy and wrong, but still, I just wanted to share this random thought. Plus it might give a face to Ulric despite losing his generals, as the enemy in plain sight. Quote
Scubacarrot Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Damn you Copper Fox. You traitorous bastard! That's some good thinking, Tanma, I hadn't even thought of that. Quote
CMP Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 I'm not saying they're not a threat, it's just that with Donny, Violetta, and Steerpike's death, they don't seem as outright powerful. Instead of widely-recognized vigilantes leading the hordes of clueless thugs in the name of some guy half of Eubric knows almost nothing about...you just have hordes of clueless thugs. For lack of a better example, think Stormtroopers, Darth Vader, and the Emperor. Do Stormtroopers really seem all that terrifying without Darth Vader to lead them? Sure, the mastermind behind everything is still alive, but the guy keeping him connected to his soldiers and the masses is gone. Damn you Copper Fox. You traitorous bastard! That's some good thinking, Tanma, I hadn't even thought of that. I don't think Copper Fox is a member of the Wolfgang, but he's probably the one Donny referred to...he is the one that trains the heroes, so it'd only make sense he has ties to the Wolfgang in order to train Beast Warriors. Quote
Dannylonglegs Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 I'm not saying they're not a threat, it's just that with Donny, Violetta, and Steerpike's death, they don't seem as outright powerful. Instead of widely-recognized vigilantes leading the hordes of clueless thugs in the name of some guy half of Eubric knows almost nothing about...you just have hordes of clueless thugs. For lack of a better example, think Stormtroopers, Darth Vader, and the Emperor. Do Stormtroopers really seem all that terrifying without Darth Vader to lead them? Sure, the mastermind behind everything is still alive, but the guy keeping him connected to his soldiers and the masses is gone. Obviously Ulric just needs new apprentices. ~Insectoid Aristocrat Quote
Sandy Posted May 22, 2013 Author Posted May 22, 2013 All we've heard of Ulric is that he's assumedly the big bad wolf of Eubric, nothing beyond that...it leaves me wondering how the Wolfgang would expect to maintain sway if their three main leaders are dead. Now they just seem like a band of thugs, I doubt most of the goons know anything of Ulric's intentions beyond 'making Eubric better'. You're confusing things that you've seen with how the things really are. You haven't even seen Wolf's Den yet, so how can you assume it's just a hiding place for a band of thugs? There's a whole city in the sewers under Eubric! When I say Wolfgang is influential, I'm not exaggerating. Ulric's plans is to move away from the criminal gang leader status he's holding now, and moving on to a leader of a political party. Getting rid of the worst offenders on his side is actually a good start towards that path. But consider that there are also some other gangs active in Eubric. The Metasimians, and the werehounds/hyena's (Blood paw or something) among others. If Ulric wants more support, perhaps he'll conscript those? Hint, hint. Well, from the beginning I said that Wolfgang has assimilated almost all of Eubric's criminal gangs into their ranks. Other QMs created those other gangs, but if I were to call the shots, I'd say Wolfgang has already taken care of them. Oh wait, I am calling the shots! Quote
Kintobor Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Obviously Ulric just needs new apprentices. ~Insectoid Aristocrat Well, Karie's a contender to replace Violetta/ Kayla once she finds out. She still doesn't know she's adopted yet, so at this point, anything could happen! Quote
Sandy Posted May 22, 2013 Author Posted May 22, 2013 I'm not saying they're not a threat, it's just that with Donny, Violetta, and Steerpike's death, they don't seem as outright powerful. Instead of widely-recognized vigilantes leading the hordes of clueless thugs in the name of some guy half of Eubric knows almost nothing about...you just have hordes of clueless thugs. Again you go with the assumption that because you don't know something, others can't know it either. Ulric's becoming a great benefactor for the poor and oppressed, and his name is on everyone's lips. I have plans to show this better on future quests, so just stick around for it... Quote
Scubacarrot Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 For lack of a better example, think Stormtroopers, Darth Vader, and the Emperor. Do Stormtroopers really seem all that terrifying without Darth Vader to lead them? Sure, the mastermind behind everything is still alive, but the guy keeping him connected to his soldiers and the masses is gone. I think that comparison doesn't work, as Donny, Violetta and Steerpike were never in charge, they were lieutenants, not generals, a better comparison would be to call them Boba Fett, Moff Tarkin and another random guy. If they lost them, sure, it would be bad, but would it lose them the war? No. Donny's gang watched their former leader be reduced to someone that follows orders, with nothing to do to circumvent that. Think they would leave now that he's gone? I don't think so. Also, Ulric, Darth Vader, Baba, the emperor, calling it now. Well, from the beginning I said that Wolfgang has assimilated almost all of Eubric's criminal gangs into their ranks. Other QMs created those other gangs, but if I were to call the shots, I'd say Wolfgang has already taken care of them. Oh wait, I am calling the shots! Well of course, I played the Metasimians as a gang that had to give up a lot of territory and power since the wolfgang moved in, fighting a guerilla (get it, it's a pun) war against both the wolfgang and the other factors. A lot of time has passed since that was established, what's to say the Wolfgang don't have a department consisting entirely of Metasimians now? Quote
CMP Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) You're confusing things that you've seen with how the things really are. You haven't even seen Wolf's Den yet, so how can you assume it's just a hiding place for a band of thugs? There's a whole city in the sewers under Eubric! When I say Wolfgang is influential, I'm not exaggerating. No, I know the Wolfgang is far more than that, but in an in-character sense of things, you can't associate the Wolfgang with Donny or Violetta or Steerpike anymore. It doesn't seem like anyone knows all that much of Ulric, to most in Eubric, he's just 'that guy that leads the Wolfgang'.... Again you go with the assumption that because you don't know something, others can't know it either. Ulric's becoming a great benefactor for the poor and oppressed, and his name is on everyone's lips. I have plans to show this better on future quests, so just stick around for it... ....Or maybe he's not? I've always kind of been under the assumption he's been the puppetmaster behind all that, gaining her power through people like his generals rather than directly...which, it sounds like he was, but I guess that's changing. I think that comparison doesn't work, as Donny, Violetta and Steerpike were never in charge, they were lieutenants, not generals, a better comparison would be to call them Boba Fett, Moff Tarkin and another random guy. If they lost them, sure, it would be bad, but would it lose them the war? No. Donny's gang watched their former leader be reduced to someone that follows orders, with nothing to do to circumvent that. Think they would leave now that he's gone? I don't think so. Also, Ulric, Darth Vader, Baba, the emperor, calling it now. I meant in more of an influential sense. I always thought those three were pretty much what everyone thought when someone said 'Wolfgang'. I hope not. Ulric seems like even more of a genius now, it'd be a shame for him to be outdone, even if it's by Baba. Edited May 22, 2013 by CallMePie Quote
Dannylonglegs Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Well, Karie's a contender to replace Violetta/ Kayla once she finds out. She still doesn't know she's adopted yet, so at this point, anything could happen! Actually, I'd love to see that! If the Arc hasn't run its course by the time Karie's a minstrel/harlot, and Karie gets a chance at Wolfgang reputation, I could actually see this happening. It'd be a great story development. Also, Heroica could always use more rogue heroes. Your character's fall into (anti)villain status would be particularly believable. Also, it'd be great to see a were-newt Wolfgang General! ~Insectoid Aristocrat Quote
Scubacarrot Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Please, not more rogue heroes. I'm pretty sure more than half the heroes is a rogue. Quote
Dannylonglegs Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Please, not more rogue heroes. I'm pretty sure more than half the heroes is a rogue. Well I'd say Anti-Hero, but usually that means something different. Ex-Hero could work semantics-wise. ~Insectoid Aristocrat Quote
Dannylonglegs Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 I just call them dirty traitors. Easier. Perhaps Heroica betrayed her?! ~Insectoid Aristocrat Quote
Endgame Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Perhaps Heroica betrayed her?! ~Insectoid Aristocrat If Violetta insulted Sorrow's weakness, he would've gotten truly angry for one of the first times. And then proceed to crush her skull with his foot. Quote
Dannylonglegs Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Wow, I just realized! Relatives of two Heroes died in this story! Romulus and Karie! It'd be interesting to see Karie as a more-willing Harley Quinn to Ulric... ~Insectoid Aristocrat Edited May 22, 2013 by Dannylonglegs Quote
Endgame Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Wow, I just realized! Relatives of two Heroes died in this story! Romulus and Karie! It'd be interesting to see Karie as a more-willing Harley Quinn to Ulric... You're fogetting one. Quote
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