Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Waterbrick Down]

You're confusing things that you've seen with how the things really are. You haven't even seen Wolf's Den yet, so how can you assume it's just a hiding place for a band of thugs? There's a whole city in the sewers under Eubric! When I say Wolfgang is influential, I'm not exaggerating.

See but we as PC's and players aren't aware of that fact, unlike some of the more informed poor of Eubric. So when someone like Donny offers heroes a choice to join them and starts talking about how much good the Wolfgang is actually doing for Eubric, it's hard for them to make an informed decision. The only context we have so far has come from quests in which the Wolfgang has been portrayed doing evil things...

Well, from the beginning I said that Wolfgang has assimilated almost all of Eubric's criminal gangs into their ranks. Other QMs created those other gangs, but if I were to call the shots, I'd say Wolfgang has already taken care of them.

Oh wait, I am calling the shots!

I fully believe that the Metasimians and Bloodpaw are holding out, they may be in decline but I don't think they'd be so easily squashed or assimilated. Every scummy city needs your common goons that aren't part of the larger syndicate criminal organization.

[Dannylonglegs]

I'm surprised Pretzel and Sylph aren't at each-others throats. I thought he'd be accusing me of being a heathen devil in a haloween costume. Sylph doesn't care that Pretzel serves another god (in-fact, he secretly finds it irritating to be around other worshipers of Sylvania), but I figured Pretzel wouldn't be quite as accommodating. Yay for Ceric/Cleric understanding!

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Flipz]

Hey, Sandy, if you still have them, could you do a group shot with the Bright Day, Red Dawn, and Black Night trio? Maybe with Baba there as well?

[Brickdoctor]

I think I might have become a mini-Flipz for a time there. Sorry for the really long post on why Black Knights aren't the greatest choice.

(Yes, that was all in the Hall and in-character. Docken cares about and knows about that sort of thing in-universe. )

[Dannylonglegs]

I think I might have become a mini-Flipz for a time there. Sorry for the really long post on why Black Knights aren't the greatest choice.

(Yes, that was all in the Hall and in-character. Docken cares about and knows about that sort of thing in-universe. )

You accidentally used the word Cleric instead of Knight... Otherwise, nice rant!

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Flare]

I think I might have become a mini-Flipz for a time there. Sorry for the really long post on why Black Knights aren't the greatest choice.

(Yes, that was all in the Hall and in-character. Docken cares about and knows about that sort of thing in-universe. )

Now we all know that a buff is needed for the black knight, thank you Professor Docken

[Brickdoctor]

You accidentally used the word Cleric instead of Knight...

Where?

Now we all know that a buff is needed for the black knight, thank you Professor Docken

Haven't we all been saying that for a while?

[Flipz]

Problem is, I can't think of anything that would improve the Black Knight without turning it INTO one of the other classes. It's always been the worst AC, simply because there isn't much that can be done to make it better.

The only things I can come up with are to allow the sacrificed health to be added as a WP bonus (thus making it added to ALL multipliers, including Critical Hits), and/or allowing health to be sacrificed to gain SP...which now that I think about it sounds really stupid.

Definitely needs a re-work, but...how?

[Dannylonglegs]

name='Brickdoctor' timestamp='1369285204' post='1599705']

Where?

"You may have good intentions, but that doesn't change the fact that your actions are unnecessarily dark.

"Clerics (Not sure if intentional here) are prone to taking a lot of Damage, and they rely on the tanks to take hits for them. Black Knights can't reliably do that. Anything a Cleric-Black Knight team can do, a Cleric-Mystic Knight or Cleric-Berserker team can probably do better. And any team with a healer, tank, and dedicated Damage-dealer could do even better than that. Really, if you consider that the sacrificed Health is just added straight to the Damage dealt, and consider that enemies usually have much higher HP than heroes, you'd need a good elemental modifier or other multiplier for it to be worth the sacrifice, something that the Mystic Knights I've mentioned are already going to have anyways.[/s]

At least three times. If you did it later in the rant, I can't tell/am-not-going-back-over-it-with-a-fine-toothed-comb.

Haven't we all been saying that for a while?

It's even worse from a rogue, I think, given the loss of income. (although, the SP is a great boon on an individual basis. Rogues and their prestige classes are rather self-focused as a rule, which I like)

OOC: This was so DLL-style - the Queen of Randomness was on my side - this time

I tell ya, it's the puppies! (And she prefers 'Goddess' )

Problem is, I can't think of anything that would improve the Black Knight without turning it INTO one of the other classes. It's always been the worst AC, simply because there isn't much that can be done to make it better.

The only things I can come up with are to allow the sacrificed health to be added as a WP bonus (thus making it added to ALL multipliers, including Critical Hits), and/or allowing health to be sacrificed to gain SP...which now that I think about it sounds really stupid.

Definitely needs a re-work, but...how?

Well, getting gold would fit in with the corrupt angle. That's my thought on the matter. Also, it sucks that there's no getting gold class for a starter knight.

Also, I like how you mention jack of all trades heroes. In my humble opinion, Druids are the best Jacks of all Trades, with the capacity to Fire Back-row, heal, and read from scrolls.... and talk to aminals! (Just my humble opinion again.)

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Edited May 23, 2013 by Dannylonglegs

[Flare]

DLL, I think he meant cleric in all the places you underlined

Monk Pretzel and Dreyugr on same quest? Yuuuuusssssss

[Dannylonglegs]

DLL, I think he meant cleric in all the places you underlined

You're right! Argh! I missed the key word Team! :wall: Sorry Brickdoctor.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Vash the Stampede]

Palathadric, I'm not sure how you're going to do it but you had better come up with a reason for Pretzel to give Dreyrugr loot. Or else......

-snip-

Well I'm not sure about everyone else but I only became Black Knight is because of the SP .

Well, getting gold would fit in with the corrupt angle. That's my thought on the matter. Also, it sucks that there's no getting gold class for a starter knight.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Well a cleric can't advance to a gold earning class either. Though I think the shield could use a serious buff. Considering it's the only shield which CAN cause harm to its user (the armour stops that but still) and it's slightly less flexible as if you attack an enemy immune to darkness its basically useless. Classes such as the berserker and shaman were changed so that the roll of a shield always has some benefit so if the shield had a buff it wouldn't seem out of place. A change I would probably see more plausible is dealing fragile or something to the original target. It would make the health sacrifice go a bit further (though considering the health amount of some enemies still not that far) and make sure that their shield rolls don't become entirely redundant.

[Zepher]

Natnail? Someone capture him and bring him to me to kill.

[Flipz]

Natnail? Someone capture him and bring him to me to kill.

Boomingham needs to have a long talk with Arthur after this is over. Thothwick, too, and maybe Nyx if she's willing.

[Zepher]

I don't know what about, but Natnail embarrassed Boomers, and if they ever meet again, Boomingham will do everything in his power to kill Natty.

[Flipz]

I thought Natnail was Wolfgang...?

[Brickdoctor]

I'm not sure what exactly is a typical fighting style for a black knight, other than maybe 'dishonorable'... Maybe the Black Knight could have a Shield that used the enemy's Level against him. Maybe the Black Knight could have something like "sneaks up on the opponent and steals n Gold, then stabs his opponent in the back for n Damage ignoring SP". (Would have to be a lower number otherwise it would be either overpowered, slightly de-value SP-piercing weapons, or both.)

It's even worse from a rogue, I think, given the loss of income. (although, the SP is a great boon on an individual basis. Rogues and their prestige classes are rather self-focused as a rule, which I like)

Yeah, having started as a Rogue and really wanting SP is pretty much the only reason to go Black Knight, I think. But Black Knights being as bad compared to other options as they are, I think that in that case you should either start over as a different Basic Class or you have to accept the fact that Rogues aren't really made for that role and just wait for higher classes to start tanking. In the mean time there're plenty of decent SP-providing artifacts for Rogues.

Also, I like how you mention jack of all trades heroes. In my humble opinion, Druids are the best Jacks of all Trades, with the capacity to Fire Back-row, heal, and read from scrolls.... and talk to aminals! (Just my humble opinion again.)

Mimes are obviously the best Jack of All Trades. Minstrels are pretty good at it, too. As far as Advanced Classes...maybe a Mystic Knight with a Healing Staff or a Paladin with a good weapon? Druids can't tank (in the traditional sense) so they're not a Jack of All Trades, in my opinion.

"Very well, it either a remedy or a tonic, I guess."

The healing through Mediq and then using a Tonic can only help with certain effects like this Poison, while the Remedy can help with any effect even when healing might not, so Quarryman's move is a smart one. (Assuming that the battle doesn't take so long that he uses too many Tonics, but I doubt that.)

[Waterbrick Down]

I thought Natnail was Wolfgang...?

Nope, the orc girl Quest 28's Party met was working for Roland who was leading up a division of Wolfgang panhandlers. Natnail was just another one of their targets.

[CMP]

I pride Atramor on being a jack-of-all-trades. Healer, tank, offense, support. Anything I need.

I mean, he's probably not as effective as others in each field, but I like adaptable characters.

Edited May 23, 2013 by CallMePie

[Brickdoctor]

I pride Atramor on being a jack-of-all-trades. Healer, tank, offense, support. Anything I need.

I mean, he's probably not as effective as others in each field, but I like adaptable characters.

What is Atramor going to after Level 30, I forget?

[Scorpiox]

Nope, the orc girl Quest 28's Party met was working for Roland who was leading up a division of Wolfgang panhandlers. Natnail was just another one of their targets.

And Boomingham decided to fight him... and lost. That was such a great moment.

[CMP]

What is Atramor going to after Level 30, I forget?

Regulator...maybe. Mass Special Mirror is a lot of fun.

[Dannylonglegs]

I'm not sure what exactly is a typical fighting style for a black knight, other than maybe 'dishonorable'... Maybe the Black Knight could have a Shield that used the enemy's Level against him. Maybe the Black Knight could have something like "sneaks up on the opponent and steals n Gold, then stabs his opponent in the back for n Damage ignoring SP". (Would have to be a lower number otherwise it would be either overpowered, slightly de-value SP-piercing weapons, or both.)

That doesn't sound like a bad idea. It would somewhat devalue an SP defying weapon in the hands of a BK, but other than that it seems OK. Maybe the BK could deal damage wx3+p damage and stun (unlike the sorcerer that steals and stuns, the possibility of KOing the enemies making the stun not too OP.) or, better yet, the BK steals n gold and has an x chance of blinding a few/all enemies... Or maybe some derivative of those. I like blind. It fits with the trait, but it may be OP.

It could be argued that the potential to stun oneself kind-of goes against the self-serving feel of a BK in the first place.

Yeah, having started as a Rogue and really wanting SP is pretty much the only reason to go Black Knight, I think. But Black Knights being as bad compared to other options as they are, I think that in that case you should either start over as a different Basic Class or you have to accept the fact that Rogues aren't really made for that role and just wait for higher classes to start tanking. In the mean time there're plenty of decent SP-providing artifacts for Rogues.

Fair enough. The ability to use shield's the only boon they get over all.

Mimes are obviously the best Jack of All Trades. Minstrels are pretty good at it, too. As far as Advanced Classes...maybe a Mystic Knight with a Healing Staff or a Paladin with a good weapon? Druids can't tank (in the traditional sense) so they're not a Jack of All Trades, in my opinion.

I forgot about healing staffs. Still, just because I don't Tank (yet... we'll see how much SP I can get. I'm saving up my dough for some nice magicy robes...), doesn't mean it's not possible... And being in the back row essentially doubles one's SP automatically, so I still think it's capable of being a Jack. Their only 'problem' is the lack of carrying a shield (and maybe also that their shield doesn't dish-out damage, although with potential for poison or SP decreasing modinfiers on Weapons, I'd take an improved chance to hit over dishing out huge quantities of Dmg any day.) Furthermore, barring Prophets, you can't beat that 50% chance to avoid negative effects from a special, nor can you top removing negative effects and UN-KO-ING!!! on a Shield roll. In my opinion, Druids beat all others in Healing, and come very close in terms of Support. They're not meant to be Tanks or Damage-Dishers, but they can easily hold their own in either field. Maybe their supperiority in Healing removes them from the 'masters of none.' aspect though, so I'll concede there. (I still think they're the best class though, but I might be biased. )

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Brickdoctor]

Regulator...maybe. Mass Special Mirror is a lot of fun.

I was just thinking that once I get to Level 50, I'd probably stop using the Medal of Glory*, and along with Lucky Dies the Amulet of the Court would be a good Accessory for Docken, if you were going to go with a different class that needed a different accessory and strategy.

*Give it to my second character and power-Level him, maybe.

[CMP]

I was just thinking that once I get to Level 50, I'd probably stop using the Medal of Glory*, and along with Lucky Dies the Amulet of the Court would be a good Accessory for Docken, if you were going to go with a different class that needed a different accessory and strategy.

*Give it to my second character and power-Level him, maybe.

I love it because it's almost like being immune to all effects. And with the Pheles Rod, I can probably take whatever effect is is for the round it needs to wear off.

Right now my goal is to get immunity to all elements in it, too. It shall be the ultimate defensive artifact!