Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Flipz]

I pride Atramor on being a jack-of-all-trades. Healer, tank, offense, support. Anything I need.

I mean, he's probably not as effective as others in each field, but I like adaptable characters.

About the only thing Arthur can't do by himself is tank.

The real difference in my strategy over Atramor's, though, is that I'm building Arthur to be flexible in Expert Class choices as well. Sorcerer--well, you've all seen Arthur's build for that. Chi Monk--pretty much the same, but with Ether restoration on a SHIELD. (There is one major Artifact that will be different for that build, but you'll likely see it in action soon anyway. ) Regulator, Skirmisher, and Dragoon--Jester's Hat, Cloak of Deception, "Mystery Artifact" that, again, will soon be revealed.

I have to say, I'm glad I have my thousand Gold now. Now that I'm assured to finish my deal, I can quit focusing on Artifacts and stats and just collect Scrolls at a leisurely pace, focusing primarily on story.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Flipz

[Brickdoctor]

It could be argued that the potential to stun oneself kind-of goes against the self-serving feel of a BK in the first place.

I think that kind of fits the class, the Black Knight being so blinded by his hatred that he acts first and thinks about the consequences later. (Whether they be a realization of what the hero had just done, an effect of striking the enemy so hard that some of the force bounces back, just plain exhaustion like wielding Leojagd/Greatsword of Lion Nobles, etc.)

I forgot about healing staffs. Still, just because I don't Tank (yet... we'll see how much SP I can get. I'm saving up my dough for some nice magicy robes...), doesn't mean it's not possible... And being in the back row essentially doubles one's SP automatically, so I still think it's capable of being a Jack. Their only 'problem' is the lack of carrying a shield (and maybe also that their shield doesn't dish-out damage, although with potential for poison or SP decreasing modinfiers on Weapons, I'd take an improved chance to hit over dishing out huge quantities of Dmg any day.) Furthermore, barring Prophets, you can't beat that 50% chance to avoid negative effects from a special, nor can you top removing negative effects and UN-KO-ING!!! on a Shield roll. In my opinion, Druids beat all others in Healing, and come very close in terms of Support. They're not meant to be Tanks or Damage-Dishers, but they can easily hold their own in either field. Maybe their supperiority in Healing removes them from the 'masters of none.' aspect though, so I'll concede there. (I still think they're the best class though, but I might be biased. )

~Insectoid Aristocrat

I agree with you that Druids are probably the one best class that you can't go wrong choosing or having in your party. I'm not sure that they can get the chance to truly tank, since they usually need to focus on healing other heroes, not themselves, but as you say, to me, their extreme proficiency in healing makes them a specialized class even if they do decently in the other areas.

[Flipz]

Also important to note is that Arthur has access to Regulator and Skirmisher. There's a flexibility in multiple EC options that not everyone can have. I definitely would have gone on JimB's Quest to Dastan if I could have, just for a shot at another Expert Class option. That's something QMs should note--slap an Expert Class on a Quest, and you have my attention. (And yes, that also applies to Reputation for ECs I want, but still. )

Edited May 23, 2013 by Flipz

[CMP]

I had an idea for Black Knight's Shield (Extortion: it's essentially Sentinel, but the Black Knight gains gold equal to the amount of damage protected), but it's very different from the current one.

[Brickdoctor]

Right now my goal is to get immunity to all elements in it, too. It shall be the ultimate defensive artifact!

Except it doesn't protect against Instant KO. But I've got that covered already.

I had an idea for Black Knight's Shield (Extortion: it's essentially Sentinel, but the Black Knight gains gold equal to the amount of damage protected), but it's very different from the current one.

That's not bad. Maybe it should have some sort of penalty since you can gain something in addition to being protected. (Wardens can gain HP at the penalty of having the Damage protected being deducted from their HP, while Paladins and Knights gain nothing but also don't lose anything.)

[Dannylonglegs]

I think that kind of fits the class, the Black Knight being so blinded by his hatred that he acts first and thinks about the consequences later. (Whether they be a realization of what the hero had just done, an effect of striking the enemy so hard that some of the force bounces back, just plain exhaustion like wielding Leojagd/Greatsword of Lion Nobles, etc.)

I agree with you that Druids are probably the one best class that you can't go wrong choosing or having in your party. I'm not sure that they can get the chance to truly tank, since they usually need to focus on healing other heroes, not themselves, but as you say, to me, their extreme proficiency in healing makes them a specialized class even if they do decently in the other areas.

I suppose you're right. Mechanically it feels like a selfless act, but in-context of the game, your interpretation seems more apt. I see it as an exhaustion or loss-of-essence thing, which is why I saw it as semi-self-sacrificial.

Fair point. We're better than Jacks of All Trades. I do also agree that, while Druids can get as-high-an-SP-as-any-other-non-knight-related-class, their potential to Tank will always be limited by lack-of-shield. Doesn't mean they can't stand in the Back Row with their modest maybe-up-to-8 SP and their high health and counterstrike while healing.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Vash the Stampede]

I had an idea for Black Knight's Shield (Extortion: it's essentially Sentinel, but the Black Knight gains gold equal to the amount of damage protected), but it's very different from the current one.

It seems a bit too different to me. I can see the thought behind it but realistically imagine going against a boss. You can't convince them to change their plans and stop whatever evil thing they're about to do but they'll be happy to hand over all of their gold to you while fighting in battle.

[CMP]

That's not bad. Maybe it should have some sort of penalty since you can gain something in addition to being protected. (Wardens can gain HP at the penalty of having the Damage protected being deducted from their HP, while Paladins and Knights gain nothing but also don't lose anything.)

I said it works like Sentinel, not Guardian Angel. It doesn't protect against negative effects. I figure gold is the reasonable counter-balance for that.

[Flare]

Ambrosia Don't let Docken get his hands on any (at least without a high price )

I said it works like Sentinel, not Guardian Angel. It doesn't protect against negative effects. I figure gold is the reasonable counter-balance for that.

It sounds fair to me.

[CMP]

It seems a bit too different to me. I can see the thought behind it but realistically imagine going against a boss. You can't convince them to change their plans and stop whatever evil thing they're about to do but they'll be happy to hand over all of their gold to you while fighting in battle.

It doesn't have to make sense. Thormanil made 2000+ gold killing barnyard animals.

[Flipz]

Doesn't mean they can't stand in the Back Row with their modest maybe-up-to-8 SP and their high health and counterstrike while healing.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Just running numbers off the top of my head, with the Robe of the Elven Necromancer, the Reflective Gauntlets, the Warrior's Treads, and the Night's Helmet while wielding the Bear Claw Gloves, a non-Knight can theoretically have up to SP:17 at Level 30.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Flipz

[Flare]

Just running numbers off the top of my head, with the Robe of the Elven Necromancer, the Reflective Gauntlets, the Warrior's Treads, and the Night's Helmet while wielding the Bear Claw Gloves, a non-Knight can theoretically have up to SP:18 at Level 30.

Unless its a yeti, and the SP will be much higher

[Flipz]

Unless its a yeti, and the SP will be much higher

Holy crap, you're right!

Nagure could theoretically reach a whopping SP:25 before his shield, AND now that I think about it ALL of those items are suitable for him!!

[Dannylonglegs]

Just running numbers off the top of my head, with the Robe of the Elven Necromancer, the Reflective Gauntlets, the Warrior's Treads, and the Night's Helmet while wielding the Bear Claw Gloves, a non-Knight can theoretically have up to SP:17 at Level 30.

Yes, but I don't HAVE any of those. I only have mah hood and for the future, a robe of the Archmage, and maybe something else, maybe not. 7 SP for me.

Also, Sylph couldn't care less about the cloth trade.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Edited May 23, 2013 by Dannylonglegs

[Flare]

Holy crap, you're right!

Nagure could theoretically reach a whopping SP:25 before his shield, AND now that I think about it ALL of those items are suitable for him!!

Looks like Docken has some competition

[Vash the Stampede]

It doesn't have to make sense. Thormanil made 2000+ gold killing barnyard animals.

Umm....but......but..............they were EVIL barnyard animals. Why else would incredibly good natures heroes who go out to make society a better place at the risk of their own lives with nothing to gain for themselves kill innocent barnyard animals? They were doing extortion. You know they make you pay rent to live on a farm. Unfortunately the legal documents were burned so the money could not be returned to their rightful owners.

Holy crap, you're right!

Nagure could theoretically reach a whopping SP:25 before his shield, AND now that I think about it ALL of those items are suitable for him!!

Nagure, the new Docken, but MORE tanky. (Docken you have a contender .......although does he know it? Has he met Nagure......oh wait OOC knowledge)

[Dannylonglegs]

Nagure, the new Docken, but MORE tanky. (Docken you have a contender .......although does he know it? Has he met Nagure......oh wait OOC knowledge)

Yes, but Nagure doesn't stand in the back row.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Flipz]

Nagure, the new Docken, but MORE tanky. (Docken you have a contender .......although does he know it? Has he met Nagure......oh wait OOC knowledge)

Someone should make an Artifact that turns the wearer into a Yeti...but make it bodywear, so people can't wear it and the Yeti Fur coat at the same time.

[Brickdoctor]

Yeah, the Yeti Coat is ridiculous.

Could at least have given me the Duplovian SP: 20 Shield instead of that Grating Stone.

Although the problem with that artifact set up would be the fact that I don't think any of them have any major benefits other than SP, so depending on class a different artifact might still be the better choice.

I said it works like Sentinel, not Guardian Angel. It doesn't protect against negative effects. I figure gold is the reasonable counter-balance for that.

That would balance out better. Kind of a 'true combo' of Knight and Rogue, then. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Although when I think about it, I'm not sure if protecting the rest of the party sounds like sonething a Black Knight would do.

[Dannylonglegs]

Someone should make an Artifact that turns the wearer into a Yeti...but make it bodywear, so people can't wear it and the Yeti Fur coat at the same time.

That gives me an idea!

Yeti 'nother transformation Scroll (because all TF scrolls must have a pun)

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[CMP]

That would balance out better. Kind of a 'true combo' of Knight and Rogue, then. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Although when I think about it, I'm not sure if protecting the rest of the party sounds like sonething a Black Knight would do.

It's called Extortion, though, which I feel gives it the flavor it needs.

[Brickdoctor]

Yes, but Nagure doesn't stand in the back row.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

And also doesn't have an HP-doubling Shield, doesn't have as high HP, takes full Damage from Free Hits, isn't immune to SP reduction, and isn't unaffected by lower-Level enemies. (Which doesn't mean that he's not still a very good tank, because he is.)

[Dannylonglegs]

That would balance out better. Kind of a 'true combo' of Knight and Rogue, then. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Although when I think about it, I'm not sure if protecting the rest of the party sounds like sonething a Black Knight would do.

That's a fair point. Black Knight don't seem the type willing to protect the party like a true knight. The extortion aspect is interesting though.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Brickdoctor]

Ooh, ooh!

Coercion - The Black Knight offers to protect the party using his shield during the next Round. Each hero in the party must pay Gold equal to the amount of Damage he wishes to be protected from.

*The amount can't exceed the SP of the Black Knight, if that wasn't obvious.

[Vash the Stampede]

That gives me an idea!

Yeti 'nother transformation Scroll (because all TF scrolls must have a pun)

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Oh fur goodness sake, that idea is just abominable.

Ooh, ooh!

Coercion - The Black Knight offers to protect the party using his shield during the next Round. Each hero in the party must pay Gold equal to the amount of Damage he wishes to be protected from.

Sounds fun but for some reason I have a feeling none of the other party members will choose to take advantage of it. Or they ask for their money back.