Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Scubacarrot]

Also, it's always "The Houses in Power", but except for perhaps the Bonapartes, there is little ruling going on. I could understand trying to get rid of the Bonapartes and the Town Watch, but trying to say the rest have to go would basically be equal to admitting you just want their stuff.

[Brickdoctor]

The reasons for my argument and choice are not roleplaying, as I told John Paul before and as I hinted to in my own post. I give priority to stats and loot, and that means continuing to be hired by others who see that Heroica is based out of a city with a stable government and isn't known to be working with a faction that can't be trusted. And seven powers are likely to pitch a lot more quests and offer a lot more options for heroes than one criminal organization can.

Also, it's always "The Houses in Power", but except for perhaps the Bonapartes, there is little ruling going on. I could understand trying to get rid of the Bonapartes and the Town Watch, but trying to say the rest have to go would basically be equal to admitting you just want their stuff.

And those two factions, the Bonapartes and the Town Watch, are probably the closest there is among the eight main factions to a Lawful Good power that you would want in power. The Hinckwells are probably Chaotic Good, the Shadeaux Chaotic Neutral, the Zeigfrieds...uh...Neutral Good, I guess, the Guild of Invision doesn't even seem to care, so true Neutral, and the Wolfgang are Chaotic Evil.

[CMP]

If the Wolfgang are Chaotic Evil, why are they even trying to form a house and seize power to create a Eubric where everyone's equal? That's at least Neutral. (in terms of Chaotic and Lawful)

Also, Ziegfrieds are definitely Chaotic Good.

[Dannylonglegs]

If the Wolfgang are Chaotic Evil, why are they even trying to form a house and seize power to create a Eubric where everyone's equal? That's at least Neutral. (in terms of Chaotic and Lawful)

Also, Ziegfrieds are definitely Chaotic Good.

I concur: for me it seems like:

Hinckwells: from Chaotic Good to True Neutral

Shadeax: True Neutral

Zeigfrieds: from Chaotic Good to Chaotic Evil (Necromancers)

Guild of Invision: True Neutral to Neutral Good

The Bonapartes: Lawful Good to Lawful Neutral

The Ji Pei: Lawful Neutral to Neutral Evil (??? the Tritech company's not 100% good to be sure.)

The TownWatch: Lawful Good to Lawful Neutral

Wolfgang: Chaotic (and Neutral) Evil to Chaotic Good.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Edited June 3, 2013 by Dannylonglegs

[Scubacarrot]

You can't view any of the houses as Good, they aren't. Perhaps some of the members, like the Shadeaux and Hinckwell kids, Cula. As for Wolfgang, they are somewhere between Chaotic Evil and True Neutral, I think.

[CMP]

You can't view any of the houses as Good, they aren't.

In Guts' eyes, maybe. Just because the politics in Eubric are sort of broken doesn't mean anyone who's part of a house is automatically not Good.

Hinckwells: from Chaotic Good to True Neutral

Shadeax: True Neutral

Zeigfrieds: from Chaotic Good to Chaotic Evil (Necromancers)

Guild of Invision: True Neutral to Neutral Good

The Bonapartes: Lawful Good to Lawful Neutral

The Ji Pei: Lawful Neutral to Neutral Evil (??? the Tritech company's not 100% good to be sure.)

The TownWatch: Lawful Good to Lawful Neutral

Wolfgang: Chaotic (and Neutral) Evil to Chaotic Good.

That's pretty much how it looks to me, too.

[Dannylonglegs]

You can't view any of the houses as Good, they aren't. Perhaps some of the members, like the Shadeaux and Hinckwell kids, Cula. As for Wolfgang, they are somewhere between Chaotic Evil and True Neutral, I think.

I agree, but I'm just going with the overwhelming vibe I get from the groups. Partuicularly the Shadeaux and Hinckwells can't be seen as 100% good.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Scubacarrot]

In Guts' eyes, maybe. Just because the politics in Eubric are sort of broken doesn't mean anyone who's part of a house is automatically not Good.

I mean some of the members can be seen as a gradiant of Good, but the houses overall, not really. Good would imply they are actively trying to help make things better, that's not happening.

[CMP]

I mean some of the members can be seen as a gradiant of Good, but the houses overall, not really. Good would imply they are actively trying to help make things better, that's not happening.

The Houses as a complete whole can't be considered anything, there's too much going on. As for each one, I disagree. The Bonapartes try to keep the peace around the seas. The Ziegfrieds are trying to hold back a demonic threat, I guess. Just because heroes get a more complete view of things and the unfortunate ripples and side effects the factions create doesn't mean they don't have Good intentions.

Edited June 3, 2013 by CallMePie

[Dannylonglegs]

The Houses as a complete whole can't be considered anything, there's too much going on. As for each one, I disagree. The Bonapartes try to keep the peace around the seas. The Ziegfrieds are trying to hold back a demonic threat, I guess. Just because heroes get a more complete view of things and the unfortunate ripples and side effects the factions create doesn't mean they don't have Good intentions.

And you know what they say about good intentions.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Chromeknight]

The Houses as a complete whole can't be considered anything, there's too much going on. As for each one, I disagree. The Bonapartes try to keep the peace around the seas. The Ziegfrieds are trying to hold back a demonic threat, I guess. Just because heroes get a more complete view of things and the unfortunate ripples and side effects the factions create doesn't mean they don't have Good intentions.

The guild of Invision polices alchemists and surgeons, preventing outbreaks of poisoning, disease and controlling drugs.

Shadeaux exist as an economic counterbalance to the Hinkwells, preventing monopolistic practices.

The Ji Pei are technologically innovative but also seek to control the uses of what they have designed/ built.

[CMP]

The guild of Invision polices alchemists and surgeons, preventing outbreaks of poisoning, disease and controlling drugs.

Shadeaux exist as an economic counterbalance to the Hinkwells, preventing monopolistic practices.

The Ji Pei are technologically innovative but also seek to control the uses of what they have designed/ built.

Exactly. Just because they sometimes stray from those goals, it doesn't mean they can't be Good in general.

[Flipz]

Shadeaux exist as an economic counterbalance to the Hinkwells, preventing monopolistic practices.

Yeah, good job with that one, Heroes.

(Q4, Q62)

[Dannylonglegs]

Yeah, good job with that one, Heroes.

(Q4, Q62)

Well, Shadeaux doesn't have a very big branch in Brendenton.... So Fleur decided to help them out of the goodness of her heart.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Vash the Stampede]

Yeah, good job with that one, Heroes.

(Q4, Q62)

Hey I thought we did pretty well. Had we totally succeeded or failed a house pretty much would've had a monopoly. (Success=Hinkwells, Failure=Shadeaux) We totally meant to go for a happy medium.

That loot. All that amazing loot. Gone.

[Brickdoctor]

Had we totally succeeded or failed a house pretty much would've had a monopoly. (Success=Hinkwells, Failure=Shadeaux) We totally meant to go for a happy medium.

The Quest 4 heroes, on the other hand... (Okay, to be fair, I designed the quest to trick them into doing what they did, with extra reward if they caught the Shadeaux - either extra Gold from the Hinckwells or they could've defeated Shawe and forced the Shadeaux to pay them more to keep quiet - depending on which reputation they wanted.)

[Flare]

The Quest 4 heroes, on the other hand... (Okay, to be fair, I designed the quest to trick them into doing what they did, with extra reward if they caught the Shadeaux - either extra Gold from the Hinckwells or they could've defeated Shawe and forced the Shadeaux to pay them more to keep quiet - depending on which reputation they wanted.)

Hey!

Wicked! Tricksy! False!

[Dannylonglegs]

Hey I thought we did pretty well. Had we totally succeeded or failed a house pretty much would've had a monopoly. (Success=Hinkwells, Failure=Shadeaux) We totally meant to go for a happy medium.

That loot. All that amazing loot. Gone.

That is true. Until the Shadeaux run out of their cloth stores, neither side will have a monopoly. (And, if Fleur's right, by then the Shadeaux will have found a second source for their cloth, or the deal between Dill Hinckwell and the Lords of Brendenton will have expired/gone sour)

(Also, while we're talking about the quest, I might as well add that the official report from Dill is that a man named Abe Beyland is responsible for the acts that night and that his wife, Ave Hinckwell, was killed during the riots.)

Oh, quit whining, you guys did very well in terms of loot.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Vash the Stampede]

Oh, quit whining, you guys did very well in terms of loot.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

I know but more was staring me in the face. I can't help but feel emotional.

[Zepher]

You can't view any of the houses as Good, they aren't. Perhaps some of the members, like the Shadeaux and Hinckwell kids, Cula. As for Wolfgang, they are somewhere between Chaotic Evil and True Neutral, I think.

I mean some of the members can be seen as a gradiant of Good, but the houses overall, not really. Good would imply they are actively trying to help make things better, that's not happening.

Can't tell others how to perceive the houses. People may have a different definition of good than you, or may view things differently.

ALSO: if Docken happens to come on Guffington II, there will be NO commentary on his lack of roleplaying, or commentary on his role playing if he chooses to do it. I mean, not actually, I can't actually police that, but it does bother me that he gets so much commentary on how he plays the game. I feel like sometimes we shoe-horn him into "not role playing" aka, he's got such a reputation for it, he feels obligated to adhere specifically to people's expectations. You know what I'm saying?

Finally, no where in the Guffington pitch does it say you guys get to sign up as a party, or choose your own party leader. I mean... you can if you want to, but the quest won't necessarily stick to who you chose as a leader, or who you "sign up with".

[Brickdoctor]

ALSO: if Docken happens to come on Guffington II, there will be NO commentary on his lack of roleplaying, or commentary on his role playing if he chooses to do it. I mean, not actually, I can't actually police that, but it does bother me that he gets so much commentary on how he plays the game. I feel like sometimes we shoe-horn him into "not role playing" aka, he's got such a reputation for it, he feels obligated to adhere specifically to people's expectations. You know what I'm saying?

I don't really mind it. I'm aware that technically everything I do in-character is roleplaying, so I'm technically roleplaying not roleplaying. And I know I roleplay the way most of us think of it here and there even if it isn't obvious, because, even if I don't differentiate between out-of-character and in-character knowledge, I do still draw a line beyond which it's completely ridiculously unrealistic for Docken to know stuff.

You just have to remember that if you think I'm roleplaying the way other players do, then that's a case that probably isn't subtle enough to be one of the little things I do (have to) roleplay, and there probably actually is a stats- or loot-based reason behind all of that. And if you don't think so, I don't mind explaining it.

I know that there're also some things that originally were roleplaying when I really tried to do it, which have now become roleplaying even though I don't try to roleplay just because they've become habits. (Like, for example, addressing everyone as 'Master' when speaking but using the name most players refer to them with when thinking about them in italics.) And sometimes they become roleplaying because I keep doing them to keep things consistent for the sake of realism. (For example, Docken started as a Lawful Good character, and there's been no reason for that to change so to change that would be one of those ridiculously unrealistic things, so I keep playing him as Lawful Good.) It's sort of roleplaying a little bit in a way that isn't obvious because I don't want to truly roleplay as would be required if I changed anything.

Finally, no where in the Guffington pitch does it say you guys get to sign up as a party, or choose your own party leader. I mean... you can if you want to, but the quest won't necessarily stick to who you chose as a leader, or who you "sign up with".

Told you, Scuba.

[Zepher]

Yes, I know, and I strangely know that you know that not roleplaying is roleplaying ( ). Perhaps that would have been better sent in a PM: Guffington II is a roleplaying quest, for the most part. I'd like if you roleplayed, even if its your form of "not-roleplay role-play". Don't worry what the peanut gallery says, if you get into it in that way, I think we'll both have more fun. That's all!

[Brickdoctor]

I'm not sure if true non-roleplaying is possible... even if I said absolutely nothing, then I'd be roleplaying a character that didn't talk. And once I say something, even if I only say what is absolutely necessary stats-wise, I'm roleplaying a character that only says what's absolutely necessary. So not roleplaying is roleplaying and roleplaying cannot be not roleplaying and roleplaying not roleplaying is possible but not roleplaying is not possible. ( )

And if roleplaying is required of me to move the quest along, then I'll definitely do it, even it it's roleplaying not roleplaying while not truly roleplaying because I'm roleplaying to accomplish a goal that isn't just roleplaying.

I think I typed the word 'roleplaying' too many times, because now it doesn't look like a word to me anymore.

[Zepher]

I think we're on the same page.

Also, just caught up in the Hall, and I gotta say that it's little moments like this that make me love the roleplayers in this game:

Nyx smiles, slightly wistfully, but probably not for the reasons anyone might think. She realises what Hybros has just said and shakes her outstretched palms at him in an effort to clarify.

"Oh, no no, certainly not a mate; my heart is somewhere across the seas by now."

I don't know why, but that line is perfectly sad to me. She denies her love of XX to Arthur, to Boomingham, to her (brother) Atramor... but she admits it to a stranger. Something about it. I don't know. Perfect for her character.

Also, JimBee, I don't know if I've mentioned it ever, but Hybros' laugh is one of the best, most consistent and most defining character choices anyone has made over the course of the game. I think it is the thing that best encapsulates his character... and he is one of my favorite characters in the game. :thumbup:

Edited June 4, 2013 by Zepher

[Flipz]

And if roleplaying is required of me to move the quest along, then I'll definitely do it, even it it's roleplaying not roleplaying while not truly roleplaying because I'm roleplaying to accomplish a goal that isn't just roleplaying.

Brickdoctor vs. Readers - Confuse (all readers Confused)

Because apparently Doc is a Sorcerer.

I agree that Doc's non-roleplaying is roleplaying in its own way, and I really like it. Every large game-world needs a character who knows slightly too much about how the world ACTUALLY works. In a lot of ways, Docken reminds me of a Lawful Good (/Neutral?) Richard from "Looking for Group".

Also, just caught up in the Hall, and I gotta say that it's little moments like this that make me love the roleplayers in this game:

I don't know why, but that line is perfectly sad to me. She denies her love of XX to Arthur, to Boomingham, to her (brother) Atramor... but she admits it to a stranger. Something about it. I don't know. Perfect for her character.

A lot of good roleplaying in the Hall recently...just not so much from me. I do plan to re-read some of my posts over the past few (WAY too busy) days and do some self-critique, maybe re-write them just for my own edification. Q70 is definitely perfect for Arthur at this point, I just wish I'd had a couple more days to wait for it--I could have done all the same stuff, but not been quite so awkward about it.