Heroica RPG General Discussion

[CMP]

That brings me to my next point: Assassins' usefulness will be made-or-broken by QM encounter design. Get lucky rolls and everything falls over dead at your feet. But just slap "Immunity to Sudden Death" on a creature, and Assassins lose a lot of their flavor. This is one that I think only time will tell.

I think as long as no-sudden death is limited to the main boss or any other important encounters, all will be well. Assassin is now the first class I'm going to try. Shame I put all my resources into this dinky dagger when hopefully I'll soon be using bows and such. But I suppose it's worth it for these skills.

[swils]

I think as long as no-sudden death is limited to the main boss or any other important encounters, all will be well. Assassin is now the first class I'm going to try. Shame I put all my resources into this dinky dagger when hopefully I'll soon be using bows and such. But I suppose it's worth it for these skills.

Meh, don't put a restriction on it. That limits creativity. In this case, the QM's discretion will truly be the balancing factor between making the skill useless, overpowered, or just right. Good QMs will use it when it's needed, or when it will add just enough challenge. Bad QM's will use it when they really want their well designed monster to not be susceptible to a OHKO just because they want it to stay alive. And they'll use it again and again. And the feedback will, I'm sure, tell them so. And those QMs will either learn, or not asked to be QMs again

[Brickdoctor]

I hope I didn't come off as though I was picking on your quest, heh.

While I think that QM experience will play a part in it, I also think that the problem stems from flat HP scaling across classes. In keeping the game simple, it might be *too* simple. A level 1 knight will have X more health than a level 1 rogue. A level 14.5 knight will still have X more health than a level 14.5 rogue. At level 1, that's a huge difference. At level 14, it's still a noticeable difference. In the future, though? That flat difference is going to taper off into obscurity, and (using universal terms here), DPS classes will be able to take a hit just as well as Tanks.

Hey, the more you critique my last quest, the better my next one will be!

I agree, though let's not forget that Sandy could just make the Expert Classes have more drastically different changes to max Health and Ether to rebalance things.

[The_Customizer]

I have chosen who I will be. Assassin. I mean, rangers are awesome, and Assassins are the better versions of rangers.. Plus, I already have Erdathcath's costume all ready.

Oh, and the "Kill with one shot" thingy also helps.

[swils]

Hey, the more you critique my last quest, the better my next one will be!

I agree, though let's not forget that Sandy could just make the Expert Classes have more drastically different changes to max Health and Ether to rebalance things.

Oh, well in that case, let me get out my little notebook of C&C from Q4...

Opens up a book as thick as the Webster dictionary

And that's a very good point. I always feel bad critiquing the game, as I know Sandy puts a lot of time into its design and maintenance, and all I do is sit here and reap the benefits, heh. Even offering suggestions, I feel like I'm overstepping my bounds a bit. I really hope I don't offend at all. Sandy has said, over and over, that Heroica is meant to be simple, easy to get into. And maybe you're right, Doc, maybe the third tier of classes will be where we see the line between wheat and chaff. It's taken us a few months to get our first Lv15s, it'll take at least that long before we see 30's. By that time, some are sure to have lost interest, but I'm sure even more will have taken an interest. Lv1-30 could be the introductory period, and then Lv30 could be where you really start getting into a role, things get a bit more advanced, etc.

Sandy, I really, *really* hope you don't see me as a nuisance, haha! You could tell us that all our characters are now, and forever will be changed to Living Mannequins, and that our stats will all be the same, barring level scaling, and honestly, I'd still play--I love having another outlet to satisfy my P'n'P thirst.

[CMP]

I have chosen who I will be. Assassin. I mean, rangers are awesome, and Assassins are the better versions of rangers.. Plus, I already have Erdathcath's costume all ready.

Oh, and the "Kill with one shot" thingy also helps.

Assassins forever. I just changed Aramor's outfit as well. Can't be an Assassin without black clothes.

[swils]

Assassins forever. I just changed Aramor's outfit as well. Can't be an Assassin without black clothes.

*cough*

Edit:

If I were playing a Rogue or Ranger, I would *so* go with a green Assassin--would love a chance to show off my green ninja hoods! haha

Edited December 2, 2011 by swils

[Brickdoctor]

Oh, well in that case, let me get out my little notebook of C&C from Q4...

Opens up a book as thick as the Webster dictionary

In all seriousness, if you do have that much feedback, I'd love to hear it. (though it might be better to discuss that via PM )

And maybe you're right, Doc, maybe the third tier of classes will be where we see the line between wheat and chaff. It's taken us a few months to get our first Lv15s, it'll take at least that long before we see 30's. By that time, some are sure to have lost interest, but I'm sure even more will have taken an interest. Lv1-30 could be the introductory period, and then Lv30 could be where you really start getting into a role, things get a bit more advanced, etc.

Of course, the player could choose to do that themselves. I'm debating whether or not I should just pick one Advanced Class and stick to it.

[CMP]

I did notice one thing not entirely clear - if a Hero were to stick with their main class, could they just continue garnering health/ether and such? I wouldn't think so, but I think it should be clarified.

[swils]

In all seriousness, if you do have that much feedback, I'd love to hear it. (though it might be better to discuss that via PM )

Of course, the player could choose to do that themselves. I'm debating whether or not I should just pick one Advanced Class and stick to it.

I don't actually have anything written down, heh, but I'm sure I could find a little time to recap any strengths and weaknesses that I didn't touch on in the QM thread. If you see a PM from me any time in the next week or two, that's what it'll most likely be. Haha

And I actually probably worded that poorly. I didn't mean getting into their characters in a roleplaying sense, but more about the rules and mechanics. Anyone who reaches level 30 will have put significant time into the game, and will be more capable of handling changes in mechanics, deviations from the simple ruleset that got them to where they are. Hypothetical: up until Lv30, any class could be at the top of the list and take that hit, but knights have special abilities that mark them as the defenders, while rogues have abilities that mark them as killers. All of a sudden, at 30, knight classes have a significantly larger health pool, and quests designed with Lv30+ in mind have enemies that can hit straight through a rogue-class's now relatively lower health pool. To a Lv1-10 player, this might be discouraging, turning them off from the game, especially if it happens a lot. But with a dedicated group of questers who have all reached 30+, and who aren't likely to start stop there, we can see a mix of new-player friendly quests, and more advanced, challenging quests for the veterans.

Edit: typo, struck-out.

Edited December 2, 2011 by swils

[The_Customizer]

*cough*

Edit:

If I were playing a Rogue or Ranger, I would *so* go with a green Assassin--would love a chance to show off my green ninja hoods! haha

I am planning on using Dark Green actually, as I have 2 custom capes that wrap-around the entire minifig. ;-)

[Brickdoctor]

And I actually probably worded that poorly. I didn't mean getting into their characters in a roleplaying sense, but more about the rules and mechanics. Anyone who reaches level 30 will have put significant time into the game, and will be more capable of handling changes in mechanics, deviations from the simple ruleset that got them to where they are. Hypothetical: up until Lv30, any class could be at the top of the list and take that hit, but knights have special abilities that mark them as the defenders, while rogues have abilities that mark them as killers. All of a sudden, at 30, knight classes have a significantly larger health pool, and quests designed with Lv30+ in mind have enemies that can hit straight through a rogue-class's now relatively lower health pool. To a Lv1-10 player, this might be discouraging, turning them off from the game, especially if it happens a lot. But with a dedicated group of questers who have all reached 30+, and who aren't likely to start stop there, we can see a mix of new-player friendly quests, and more advanced, challenging quests for the veterans.

I must've worded my post poorly, too, because that's sort of what I meant.

If a hero were to pick just Advanced Class and stick to it, he would easily become familiar with all the nuances of the class and eventually could develop the character into an offensive or defensive powerhouse. The only thing is that at Level 15, it's still the hero's choice to do this, not the mechanics of the game.

[Waterbrick Down]

My, my, things are really going to get interesting now. While I'm glad we have the choice to flip flop between advanced classes, I'm hoping people will eventually settle down into a specific role, instead of switching every quest just to give them more of an edge for a specific quest but I guess that's more of a personal role playing preference. I mean, an Ogre Assassin doesn't really make sense, not that an ogre bowman does either I agree with swils and that at the higher levels health really doesn't become an issue when distinguishing between classes but in order to keep the game simple it may be a necessity. I can say that I am glad that the rolls for battle became a lot more complex instead of the basic critical hit, hit, miss, damage, and special damage, the black knight, witch, hunter, assassin, berserker, and raider look most intriguing from that aspect. QMing is certainly going to become a bit more challenging that's for sure, maybe I will stick to newbies Great job Sandy, I can see that this took a lot of effort and was definitely not done in a half-hearted manner.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Waterbrick Down

[Peppermint_M]

Hurrah! This all looks very exciting and I am still stuck over Battle Mage or Berserker, two classes that can suit my character. I will ponder this and return to advance my class!

[Sandy]

Thank you for the comments! Nothing's set into stone in this game, and I'm sure the advanced classes will see some changes to them when they actually get test-played. I tried to be versatile with them, instead of just flat-out combining the powers of two basic classes.

I think as long as no-sudden death is limited to the main boss or any other important encounters, all will be well.

That's what I'm planning, at least. I can't micromanage all the QMs, though, but I hope they all will take this into account as well.

I always feel bad critiquing the game, as I know Sandy puts a lot of time into its design and maintenance, and all I do is sit here and reap the benefits, heh. Even offering suggestions, I feel like I'm overstepping my bounds a bit. I really hope I don't offend at all.

Oh no, please don't be afraid to give feedback! It's absolutely crucial for this game that people speak their mind. I might not agree with every suggestion, but I do appreciate them.

I did notice one thing not entirely clear - if a Hero were to stick with their main class, could they just continue garnering health/ether and such? I wouldn't think so, but I think it should be clarified.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but of course you can be a Level 20 Rogue if you choose to stick with your basic class. Your health (and ether) will continue to grow normally no matter what class you are, the advanced classes just give a boost to them.

Great job Sandy, I can see that this took a lot of effort and was definitely not done in a half-hearted manner.

Thanks! I've been working on these job classes ever since I first launched the game. I hope people test out as many of them as possible.

Hurrah! This all looks very exciting and I am still stuck over Battle Mage or Berserker, two classes that can suit my character. I will ponder this and return to advance my class!

That's exactly why I did not want to restrict players to just one advanced class.

[Peppermint_M]

That's exactly why I did not want to restrict players to just one advanced class.

But I can't be both at once! I think I will try a berserker first, a berserker with a darkness imbued blade will be quite a fearsome sight!

[Sisco]

Hm... Assassins look amazing, but the Black Witch's poisoned weapon goes right along with Blohdhurm... Good thing we can switch classes!

[soccerkid6]

Those advanced classes look amazing! I just have two questions.

About the hunters special, can they change who they favor every time they roll shield?

And when you go to an advanced class, do your stats say level 1 warden, assassin, etc. Or level 15 warden, assassin, etc. ?

Edited December 2, 2011 by soccerkid6

[K-Nut]

So wait, oncce we reach Level 15, we can no longer post in the hall anymore? Or is the training room just to choose your class?

[soccerkid6]

So wait, oncce we reach Level 15, we can no longer post in the hall anymore? Or is the training room just to choose your class?

I'm pretty sure it is just to choose your class. After all it is the training room and the hall is the hall.

[K-Nut]

I'm pretty sure it is just to choose your class. After all it is the training room and the hall is the hall.

Alright then! Sage here I come!

[Sandy]

Those advanced classes look amazing! I just have two questions.

About the hunters special, can they change who they favor every time they roll shield?

And when you go to an advanced class, do your stats say level 1 warden, assassin, etc. Or level 15 warden, assassin, etc. ?

Yes, the Hunters can change the enemy they favor every time they roll a Shield, but only to the type of the enemy they target that round. If the enemy has several types, the player gets to choose.

Changing into an advanced class does not affect your level.

[soccerkid6]

Yes, the Hunters can change the enemy they favor every time they roll a Shield, but only to the type of the enemy they target that round. If the enemy has several types, the player gets to choose.

Changing into an advanced class does not affect your level.

Thanks for the quick answers. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be a warden, with a bow of course so I only take half damage

I can only imagine all the time you spent on these.

[Rumble Strike]

I really don't think people should be able to switch Advanced classes, but that's just a roleplaying preference.

Having a look at all the advanced abilities, I can see already that the QMs will have a lot more to juggle.

I think there will be a core of players who want to get to 15+, and hopefully a core of QMs who are happy that the game just got a lot more complicated.

[Scorpiox]

I love the new classes Sandy! You did really a great job with them, and with the whole game as well.

I'm torn between Witch, Druid and Shaman, the option of melee and ranged weapons for Druid will be unusal, I would never take full damage again!.

Where is Jess? She's not there ever, Haldor mises her.