Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Palathadric]

Sorry, I don't catch the joke.

Let me rather say, I don't understand what you're referring to.

Still not what I mean to say.

[Dannylonglegs]

No. It took only a few heroes to defeat the Progg invasion, it took whole armies not to mention a ton of heroes to overthrow the orc invasion. Of course, the heroes didn't fight many of the proggs, but still...orcish invasion definitely bigger, especially considering that it's being talked about centuries after it occurred, I think.

The progg invasion would be forgotten if the heroes on it or on the first quest wouldn't bring it up."

I disagree. Sure the invasion was smaller and lasted longer, it was still a large incursion on the free isles with long-lasting effects. It even had an effect on the cloth-market collapse after-all! (62 took place two-three months after 48 in-game)

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Kintobor]

Endgame , your icon.

I've been debating my choices and I think Karie's going Witch for her first advanced class, followed by Sorcerer. She's still able to cast newtity on opponents, and it gives me time to pick up some more gemstones.

[CMP]

I disagree. Sure the invasion was smaller and lasted longer, it was still a large incursion on the free isles with long-lasting effects.

Don't know if you're joking or not, but the Orcish Invasion was definitely more significant, it formed Heroica and they nearly conquered the High Kingdoms.

Edited June 30, 2013 by CallMePie

[Palathadric]

Because such powerful artifacts were all intoruced at the same time, they went largely unnoticed.

Thus, the solution is to equip every hero with a pair of overkill gloves! (Not really.)

My "powerful" artifact was a pretzel that has one in three chances of being beneficial.

Just Pretzel's luck!

I actually don't understand whether Pretzel's pretzel has a one in three chance of giving him all effects or if it gives him any one of hastened, lucky, or encouraged.

[CMP]

I've been debating my choices and I think Karie's going Witch for her first advanced class, followed by Sorcerer. She's still able to cast newtity on opponents, and it gives me time to pick up some more gemstones.

Welcome to the most hated and yet most deviously fun advanced class in Heroica.

[Endgame]

Don't know if you're joking or not, but the Orcish Invasion was definitely more significant, it formed Heroica and they nearly conquered the High Kingdoms.

Well... The regret kind of made himself known there.

And The Regret sure as hell isn't going to just stand idle and allow humanity to bask in the sunlight.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Endgame

[Dannylonglegs]

Don't know if you're joking or not, but the Orcish Invasion was definitely more significant, it formed Heroica and they nearly conquered the High Kingdoms.

Oh, no, of course it is way less significant! I just mean it would not be forgotten if the Heroes stopped talking about it.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Waterbrick Down]

I don't think making the gloves available only to non-gold gaining classes would work. Battle Mage, Hunters, and Mystic Knights, could still reap an enormous amount of gold. No, the real issue is that at higher levels things don't really scale with classes, and thus those with a good gold income tend to shoot past other players. If you take the squishier base classes like a mage versus knights for instance, their is a 5 HP difference between the two classes. Now considering that most knights have a shield (SP 2) but fight from the front row as opposed to a mage that has 0 SP and fights from the back row, the difference is only 2 when starting off in most cases, i.e. when taking damage: Knights: 10 HP + 2 SP= 12 effective HP versus Mages: 5 HP x2 for backrow = 10 effective HP.

Now of course as time goes on, the Knight increases his SP on his shield and has access to some really good armor upgrades, but given that mages can essentially achieve at least 8 SP through artifacts and still attack from the back row, the gaps between the effective HP's remains pretty small even when people go on to advanced classes. My point is that while squishy classes that have advantages in other areas like gathering gold or benefiting from elemental rock-paper-scissors are squishy in the beginning and thus the non-squishy classes clearly have the advantage of being harder to kill as time goes on the benefits become smaller and smaller as the squishy classes become less squishy. Take the fields current Party for example: Namyrra our mage has 10 SP (which is essentially doubled as she stands in the back row) and thus tanks a fair number of our hits. We have a mage tanking free hits!

Back to the overkill gloves, I've got no problem with Arthur getting to get so much gold (that's the point of his class and build) but unfortunately, his ability to generate a lot of gold isn't counterbalanced by any real disadvantages like squishyness in the lower levels. I'd say if we were to fix up one thing in heroica, it would be to limit the amount of SP non-knight classes have access to. Bring squishy back.

[Dannylonglegs]

Endgame , your icon.

I've been debating my choices and I think Karie's going Witch for her first advanced class, followed by Sorcerer. She's still able to cast newtity on opponents, and it gives me time to pick up some more gemstones.

Excellent.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Edited June 30, 2013 by Dannylonglegs

[CMP]

Well... The regret kind of made himself known there.

In the High Kingdoms?

[Palathadric]

Dannylonglegs, you have more posts in 69 then the quest master.

Look at Quest #59, we almost all have more posts than JimB.

[Endgame]

In the High Kingdoms?

Oh, no, in the Invasion of Luosh.

[Palathadric]

Back to the overkill gloves, I've got no problem with Arthur getting to get so much gold (that's the point of his class and build) but unfortunately, his ability to generate a lot of gold isn't counterbalanced by any real disadvantages like squishyness in the lower levels. I'd say if we were to fix up one thing in heroica, it would be to limit the amount of SP non-knight classes have access to. Bring squishy back.

True, but if Arthur were to go Battle Mage or Mystic Knight he'd have a lot more strength behind his attacks, and with the latter and the overkill gloves, he'd be able to garner a massive amount of gold so as to have a incredibly strong shield. I do agree that we should not have too many powerful SP-giving artifacts for non-Knight classes.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Palathadric

[Endgame]

But then he'd simply lose his gold gaining abilities to start with, and cease being a double rogue.

Also, yes: More squishyness needed. Even I admit that 7 SP for an Assassin is too much.

[Palathadric]

But then he'd simply lose his gold gaining abilities to start with, and cease being a double rogue.

Again, I don't follow. He would lose his gold-gaining abilities, but would still generate plenty of gold due to the gloves.

[Endgame]

Again, I don't follow. He would lose his gold-gaining abilities, but would still generate plenty of gold due to the gloves.

Without a proper gold gaining ability on any of those classes, the consumables you'd need aren't readily availibe. Thus, a good chunk of your overkill earnings would have to go right back into readying yourself for more overkill.

It's a vicious cycle.

[Palathadric]

I suppose we shall see.

[Brickdoctor]

I would agree with more squishyness for non-Knights. The argument against that has always been that a Knight's advantage in SP is maintained by being able to upgrade his shield, but SP-granting artifacts are becoming common enough and players are making enough money to buy lots of them and stack them. The average levels of SP that are exclusive to Knights are up to around 8+ now.

[Flipz]

Without a proper gold gaining ability on any of those classes, the consumables you'd need aren't readily availibe. Thus, a good chunk of your overkill earnings would have to go right back into readying yourself for more overkill.

It's a vicious cycle.

Applies to regular Sorcerers as well, actually. People REALLY underestimate how expensive Ether is.

his ability to generate a lot of gold isn't counterbalanced by any real disadvantages like squishyness in the lower levels. I'd say if we were to fix up one thing in heroica, it would be to limit the amount of SP non-knight classes have access to. Bring squishy back.

Disagreed. I'm harping on it, but Ether is a real issue for me (I expend, on average, 3-4 Ether per Round), and I am still quite squishy--I don't have a lot of SP compared to most Heroes, or even most of my fellow Mages; I generally go for Artifacts that grant me new abilities rather than Artifacts that grant me SP. That may change as I adjust my build to suit the melee classes I'm headed toward, but it's still something to keep in mind; the only thing that provokes my ire quicker than a Lucky enemy is something that drains Ether.

...I should shut up now, I keep telling all the QMs how to counter me.

Though I do think squishy should be brought back, the easiest way I see to do it is to drop generic shields a bit more frequently for the Knights, like we did back in the early days with weapons--I remember that pretty much everyone in 31 got a weapon upgrade that was WP:2 higher than their current weapon, or some other upgrade that boosted them along a similar scale. Rather than forcing Knights to be penny-pinchers, perhaps it'd be a good idea to drop shields according to a similar principle.

[Endgame]

the only thing that provokes my ire quicker than a Lucky enemy is something that drains Ether.

Aaaaand I've had one of each to those.

Back-to-back.

Whoops.

[Waterbrick Down]

Applies to regular Sorcerers as well, actually. People REALLY underestimate how expensive Ether is.

Disagreed. I'm harping on it, but Ether is a real issue for me (I expend, on average, 3-4 Ether per Round), and I am still quite squishy--I don't have a lot of SP compared to most Heroes, or even most of my fellow Mages; I generally go for Artifacts that grant me new abilities rather than Artifacts that grant me SP. That may change as I adjust my build to suit the melee classes I'm headed toward, but it's still something to keep in mind; the only thing that provokes my ire quicker than a Lucky enemy is something that drains Ether.

However you expend ether at such a rate based upon your other artifacts, i.e. the lens and your scroll usage. Those items thus have a counter-balance. Your ability to do a good amount of damage and thus score overkill does not.

[Brickdoctor]

Though I do think squishy should be brought back, the easiest way I see to do it is to drop generic shields a bit more frequently for the Knights, like we did back in the early days with weapons--I remember that pretty much everyone in 31 got a weapon upgrade that was WP:2 higher than their current weapon, or some other upgrade that boosted them along a similar scale. Rather than forcing Knights to be penny-pinchers, perhaps it'd be a good idea to drop shields according to a similar principle.

31? I don't remember doing that. I did do it in Quest 4, but in 17 and 31 I tried to drop more of the specialized equips with lower Power that players would have to upgrade themselves to a higher Power later.

[Flipz]

However you expend ether at such a rate based upon your other artifacts, i.e. the lens and your scroll usage. Those items thus have a counter-balance. Your ability to do a good amount of damage and thus score overkill does not.

My ability to score overkill the way I do DOES depend on those factors. Without Ether, my potential damage (and thus ability to Overkill) is divided by 8, unless I want to risk full damage.

Number one rule of Flipz: everything in my build is built off of and/or built to accommodate something else. If you can critically disrupt one of my Artifacts, my whole build falls to pieces.

Aaaaand I've had one of each to those.

Back-to-back.

Whoops.

To be fair, Ether-drain just freaks me out and makes me panic. Lucky enemies, on the other hand, piss me off like nothing else.

Do note that both of those are non-rational reactions, though--which means they both disrupt one of my Player Artifacts: "Rational Analysis". Free Hits also have a tendency to do that to me--mind games in general will take me down pretty quick.

Argh, again, why am I telling you this?!

31? I don't remember doing that. I did do it in Quest 4, but in 17 and 31 I tried to drop more of the specialized equips with lower Power that players would have to upgrade themselves to a higher Power later.

Hmm...maybe it was just me, then. I started at WP:3, and got an Amethyst and a WP:5 staff from Q17. Then I got a WP:7 staff and a Topaz from Q31. That seemed like a pretty reasonable advancement for me, at least considering the length of the Quest. To be honest, you're pretty much the standard I work from in terms of Quest loot balance and pacing, so...

[Endgame]

I sincerely hope you realize that not only are you possibly going to be butting heads with the master of the Harvester, Flipz, but also a freaking Endgame boss.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Endgame