Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Dannylonglegs]

I sincerely hope you realize that not only are you possibly going to be butting heads with the master of the Harvester, Flipz, but also a freaking Endgame boss.

And its pet evil computer game.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Brickdoctor]

Hmm...maybe it was just me, then. I started at WP:3, and got an Amethyst and a WP:5 staff from Q17. Then I got a WP:7 staff and a Topaz from Q31. That seemed like a pretty reasonable advancement for me, at least considering the length of the Quest. To be honest, you're pretty much the standard I work from in terms of Quest loot balance and pacing, so...

Ah, I see what you mean. WP: 5 is usually my starting point, and then for Quest 31 I adjusted that because of the Level of the players. (Except for the Sword of Ancestral Hatred which stayed at WP: 5, but since it has the ability to permanently increase WP I would've made its power lower than all the other drops no matter what their power was.)

[Flipz]

And its pet evil computer game.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

The return of TEC?!

[Endgame]

The return of TEC?!

Nonono, something completely different and ten times more soul-crushing. You'll see it soon enough, although it has no relevance to the completion of the quest whatsoever.

Also: X-Naut is supposed to be pronounced Cross-naut. Which makes Tec TEC Cross Cross. Or, Tec Double Cross.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Endgame

[Dannylonglegs]

I will not be on the computer at all for the rest of the evening, tomorrow, and possibly some of the next day. Moving stuff. Sorry.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[UsernameMDM]

Nyx, Arthur, Alexis. From the top of my head.

Straight out of the box with base power, immunities, etc, I think Guts takes the cake.

[Zepher]

Because there were artifacts like the Yeti Fur Coat that came into play at the same time.

I still don't think enemies should be balanced specifically around such artifacts.

Something that depresses me to this day. That Yeti Fur. Why was it introduced? Ah well.

And THAT (balancing for them) is actually my main objection to over-kill gloves. Just my style of QMing, since I usually don't scale. I will probably just keep my old adage of not allowing characters with game breaking artifacts on my quests, because they frustrate me and infuriate me too much.

I would agree with more squishyness for non-Knights. The argument against that has always been that a Knight's advantage in SP is maintained by being able to upgrade his shield, but SP-granting artifacts are becoming common enough and players are making enough money to buy lots of them and stack them. The average levels of SP that are exclusive to Knights are up to around 8+ now.

Agreed, but I'm afraid you'll only ever hear Knight classes complaining about it, and that it will never change. C'est la vie.

[Flipz]

RE: "Who's the strongest?", stick me in the Arena with ANY of those three and just see how long I last. Who says squishiness is dead?

That actually might not be a bad idea, once the Arena rules get revamped--an Arena-based bracketed knockout tournament.

OoC: These things'll just get me pwnt.

Funnily enough, I've been thinking exactly the same thing about my Smelling Salts. Ironically, the best use I can think of for them nowadays would be to intentionally Hasten an enemy to enable both attacks AND Counterstrikes against it.

Nothing against Smelling Salts in general (there are classes that make good use of them, especially healers), it's just that my own luck and build isn't quite suited for them.

[Zepher]

Smelling Salts are actually useful to healing and tank classes, even though they seem they wouldn't be. Getting to attack and heal the same turn is what they should be used for, and they also allow for more soaked up free hits.

[JimBee]

I'd say if we were to fix up one thing in heroica, it would be to limit the amount of SP non-knight classes have access to. Bring squishy back.

Agreed, but then I think it would also be fair to limit the amount of gold Rogues can make somehow. They should have a distinct advantage to be able to afford more, yes, but as it is now I and any other Rogue class can make a Nostrum pay for itself four- or five-fold in a battle. And yes, it has taken me a very long time (my entire Heroica career, basically) to gain the immunites and advantages that I have now. I was also pretty lucky with loot drops. That's another thing that I think should change (and it is beginning to, a little) is too many powerful drops.

Nothing against Smelling Salts in general (there are classes that make good use of them, especially healers), it's just that my own luck and build isn't quite suited for them.

Smelling Salts are actually useful to healing and tank classes, even though they seem they wouldn't be. Getting to attack and heal the same turn is what they should be used for, and they also allow for more soaked up free hits.

I don't think Smelling Salts are bad at all. To attack twice or use items more frequently is always a plus, even if it means more Free Hits in some cases (i.e. too much SP in one party, poke poke UQers ).

[Flare]

Can we please stop talking about changing core factors of the game while Sandy is gone? I'm sure he will not appreciate.

[Zepher]

Yeah! Discussion about rules suck! We should have a thread where people can discuss them, but that no one has to read so that we don't have to wade through this garbage. Oh, wait...

We're all just discussing how the game is run. It's what active minds do. Sandy has always stepped in when a change seems appropriate, and let us cry ourselves hoarse when not. I don't think he'd mind a spirited debate! No one is trying to step on anyone else's toes!

Endgame, I friggin' hate those gloves, but I still love you! Costy, your Yeti Coat made a year of playing this game not matter as you outclassed me immediately, but I still love you! Sandy, your healing staves are a pain in the backside, but I still love you!

See.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Zepher

[Flare]

See.

Yeah but currently people are jumping right and left trying to change everything in the game And Sandy isn't here to stop you guys when you're pushing it But, I will let you guys continue with your radical rules changing suggestions and shut up No hard feelings anyone!

[Brickdoctor]

Yeah but currently people are jumping right and left trying to change everything in the game And Sandy isn't here to stop you guys when you're pushing it

We can't change anything without Sandy's approval anyways...

[Flipz]

Smelling Salts are actually useful to healing and tank classes, even though they seem they wouldn't be. Getting to attack and heal the same turn is what they should be used for, and they also allow for more soaked up free hits.

Healers, definitely, Tanks, ehh...

Thing is, for a tank class, Smelling Salts can potentially effectively halve your SP or more, because of the (brilliant!) way that Free Hits work. Even with multiple turns, the SP is only applied once, which can get dangerous, fast.

Also, yeee, Sandy's back in a few days!

[Brickdoctor]

Thing is, for a tank class, Smelling Salts can potentially effectively halve your SP or more, because of the (brilliant!) way that Free Hits work. Even with multiple turns, the SP is only applied once, which can get dangerous, fast.

Hastening makes sense for tanks; you can reduce those Free Hits by attacking more, and if you roll Damage while targeting an enemy that you would've taken a Free Hit from anyways, then you just got the equivalent of having your SP applied twice to the Free Hits. (If all the enemies have abilities or Specials such that you don't want to risk attacking them, then you can use the extra Turn to heal as Zeph suggested.)

Although in my case, I don't use them that often, because I do just about no Damage, I can usually tank the extra hit without a problem anyways, and I usually don't want extra chances to roll Aura.

[Sandy]

Please, by all means discuss what you feel should be changed in the rules, but I expect you have some concrete suggestions to give me eventually. You can't just cry for a fix on something if you don't have an idea how to fix it. ;)

[CMP]

I think the SP thing is just a matter of the market being oversaturated with artifacts granting high defense...but remember, nobody but Knights can efficiently upgrade their SP. I think if QMs better regulate it, it won't get too obscenely high. Minus the one-off Fur Coat, the highest SP an artifact has is 6.

[Flipz]

I think the SP thing is just a matter of the market being oversaturated with artifacts granting high defense...but remember, nobody but Knights can efficiently upgrade their SP. I think if QMs better regulate it, it won't get too obscenely high. Minus the one-off Fur Coat, the highest SP an artifact has is 6.

I also think QMs can help regulate it by offering Knights more opportunities to upgrade their shields, either through drops or, better yet, with specific opportunities (i.e. "complete this secondary task for me and I'll upgrade your shield"), or Blacksmith's Writs specifically for upgrading shields (NOT Bright Polish, since that can be used on Artifacts).

It should definitely be worked on on both fronts, though--Artifacts should be less generous with SP, and QMs should also offer Knights more opportunities to raise their shields' SP.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Flipz

[CMP]

It should definitely be worked on on both fronts, though--Artifacts should be less generous with SP, AND QMs should also offer Knights more opportunities to raise their shields' SP.

Less high SP artifacts and more high SP shields being dropped works, for me.

[Vash the Stampede]

Less high SP artifacts and more high SP shields being dropped works, for me.

Only when it isn't lowered by someone in your party. (No hard feelings DLL)

[Flare]

Utterly fed up with the antics of the others, Tesni left the hall for somewhere quieter.

Benji takes care of the noise, and she doesn't even notice

[LordoftheNoobs]

Well, I had this idea that might be a bit too much of a change to the game, but hear me out. I thought that maybe the higher the SP/WP of an item, the higher level you need to be to use it, or something along those lines. For example, if a new player was somehow able to upgrade their weapon to WP:5, let's just say, while still at level 1, they'd have to wait until level 2 to wield it. This would prevent players from becoming overpowered, or whatever; it also reflects how confused I was that this game didn't have level restrictions in the first place. Just my two cents.

Edited July 1, 2013 by LordoftheNoobs

[Flare]

Nah. That makes it more complicated than it needs to be. Anyways, there are limitations of those sorts with artifacts. Also, the main problem with overpowered players are high leveled ones

[Cutcobra]

It should definitely be worked on on both fronts, though--Artifacts should be less generous with SP, and QMs should also offer Knights more opportunities to raise their shields' SP.

Or we could artifacts with really high SP (By high I mean like more than 11 SP)have the Slowed effect.