Rumble Strike Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 If Zeph PMs me the letter I am more than happy for it to go to you at the same time. It's only fair Quote
Zepher Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I was going to post your letter in the Hall thread, would you prefer it over PM? I guess I'll send it to you through PM and allow you to post it in the Hall if you so desire. Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I'm not really a fan of upgrading artifacts as it makes acquiring extra SP really easy. Yes knight classes' advantage should be high SP, but let's not let it get so carried away that they can never be hurt. Also, I'm not sure making Knights able to pierce SP helps either. How bad would it be for existing non-knight classes to actually give up their SP, or even limit it to say a max of 3? Speaking from the perspective of having 8 SP (which is effectively 16 SP since I'm in the back row most of the time), I love being able to take a few hits but I'd be willing to give that up for the sake of balance. Anyone else? Quote
CMP Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 How bad would it be for existing non-knight classes to actually give up their SP, or even limit it to say a max of 3? Speaking from the perspective of having 8 SP (which is effectively 16 SP since I'm in the back row most of the time), I love being able to take a few hits but I'd be willing to give that up for the sake of balance. Anyone else? I still think it'd be too big of a change. How would you even do it, anyway? Have Sandy put a value on every single artifact with more than 3 SP and refund all of them? I don't think it's that necessary. Quote
Myrddyn Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Swap artifact SP for extra hitpoints? Say, Heavy armour:SP+5, immune to fragile becomes> Heavy armour HP+10, immune to fragile? Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I still think it'd be too big of a change. How would you even do it, anyway? Have Sandy put a value on every single artifact with more than 3 SP and refund all of them? I don't think it's that necessary. I wouldn't even expect a refund, though I can understand not everyone being of that same mindset. While it may not be a necessity at the moment, I'm pretty sure that the game is going to eventually reach that point and would rather nip it in the bud now rather than later. Swap artifact SP for extra hitpoints? Say, Heavy armour:SP+5, immune to fragile becomes> Heavy armour HP+10, immune to fragile? That's not actually a bad idea. Quote
Jebediahs Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 SP counted before row for non-knights in damage calculations? Quote
Zepher Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 How about this fix: QMs, this is a personal request/plea. Do not drop items with SP higher than 5 from now on. Ever. Just don't do it. Do THAT sparingly. SP 2 or 3 is great. Do that. Give it a few months. It should even out. Quote
Brickdoctor Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 SP counted before row for non-knights in damage calculations? I think that would be too complicated and we're (supposed to be) trying to keep these rules relatively simple. Exceptions to the basic rules are hard to remember after you've been playing a game for almost two years. How about this fix: QMs, this is a personal request/plea. Do not drop items with SP higher than 5 from now on. Ever. Just don't do it. Do THAT sparingly. SP 2 or 3 is great. Do that. Give it a few months. It should even out. This is an unofficial rule that I've always followed. I've never dropped an artifact with SP higher than 5 (The Robe of the Elven Necromancer), and I've never dropped an artifact with another special effect that had SP higher than 3. (The Mail of the Renegade Commander) Quote
UsernameMDM Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I've thought for a long time now that there should be a QM council that reviews the loot for each quest before it is approved, just to make sure nothing overpowered/ridiculous is dropped. Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I've thought for a long time now that there should be a QM council that reviews the loot for each quest before it is approved, just to make sure nothing overpowered/ridiculous is dropped. It's called Sandy. Quote
Flipz Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I think we're overthinking it, trying to force a solution when time is the best solution. I honestly think general policy is the better way to handle it. RE: Upgrading artifact SP: I dislike the idea in general. Artifacts can't be upgraded beyond slapping immunities on them. Simple as that. To be honest, Bright Polish is rather OP in my opinion, and I wouldn't object to the existing jars magically turning into a fair amount of cash and then the item never appearing again. Swap artifact SP for extra hitpoints? Say, Heavy armour:SP+5, immune to fragile becomes> Heavy armour HP+10, immune to fragile? While I appreciate the intention, I've always maintained that SP translates to HP at a MUCH higher ratio than most people think. 1 point of SP is a MINIMUM of 5 HP, MINIMUM. Take two Heroes with identical stats and weapons, give one a +1 HP artifact and the other a +1 SP artifact, and put them against identical foes, rolling one die for both Heroes; you'll quickly see how much difference SP makes compared to HP. (Also note that the effects of additional HP increase along a linear progression, while the effects of additional SP increase along a sharper, almost exponential progression.) How about this fix: QMs, this is a personal request/plea. Do not drop items with SP higher than 5 from now on. Ever. Just don't do it. Do THAT sparingly. SP 2 or 3 is great. Do that. Give it a few months. It should even out. Agreed, 100%. (DO drop shields that have more than just 5 or 6 SP, though--make Knights worthwhile to play in the loot department. And yes, I'm aware that Clerics face a similar problem, I just haven't worked out a good reward for Clerics that won't help Mages just as much.) Quote
Brickdoctor Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I've thought for a long time now that there should be a QM council that reviews the loot for each quest before it is approved, just to make sure nothing overpowered/ridiculous is dropped. Problem is, a lot of these issues with the items don't surface until after the item is dropped and a player figures out a new way to take advantage of it. Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) While I appreciate the intention, I've always maintained that SP translates to HP at a MUCH higher ratio than most people think. 1 point of SP is a MINIMUM of 5 HP, MINIMUM. Take two Heroes with identical stats and weapons, give one a +1 HP artifact and the other a +1 SP artifact, and put them against identical foes, rolling one die for both Heroes; you'll quickly see how much difference SP makes compared to HP. (Also note that the effects of additional HP increase along a linear progression, while the effects of additional SP increase along a sharper, almost exponential progression.) I wouldn't say it's a 1:1 corelation either, but I think it's a pretty easy fix compared to some of the other ideas as of the moment. Agreed, 100%. (DO drop shields that have more than just 5 or 6 SP, though--make Knights worthwhile to play in the loot department. And yes, I'm aware that Clerics face a similar problem, I just haven't worked out a good reward for Clerics that won't help Mages just as much.) Perhaps items that increase a Cleric's healing power? Censors from the online game Monster's Den come to mind. Edited July 2, 2013 by Waterbrick Down Quote
CMP Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I have an artifact in mind that grants gold on successful heals, kind of like Mercutio's Blessing but for Clerics. Quote
Zepher Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 It was discussed a while ago how many QM's were looking to be the coolest cats on the block by handing out the niftiest gear, but I think that most QMs have seen the obvious problem with that now, and time will heal all wounds. I have always tried to be fair and balanced with my items, but even as I crusade against them, I'm guilty as well, I'm sure. Heck, anyone want to tell me the most broken drop I've ever given out? I'm interested now that I've brought it up. Also, hopefully the audience is enjoying 72. A lot of the action is (obviously) happening outside the thread (a lot more than I intended, but it's still cool) so I wonder what all you people without even your own side-adventures to try to decipher think of the quest so far! Quote
Zepher Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Oh, god, I hope not. I don't recall doing it. I'd argue that I didn't technically create that item, but I still hope that wasn't me. Time to go review my notes. Quote
Flipz Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Didn't you make the second Lucky Die? Nope, that was Masked, I believe. Heck, anyone want to tell me the most broken drop I've ever given out? I'll try and figure that out. Quote
Zepher Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I'd personally probably say the Amulet of the Court, but I don't think it's a totally unfair item over-all, and I'm interested what others have to say on the matter! Quote
CMP Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Your drops aren't cool enough to be broken, Zepher.... In all honesty you haven't dropped any really overpowered items, so you've got the balance down. Quote
Rumble Strike Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I'm still not a fan of the dancing shoes, but as Scuba always points out, their power conflicts slightly with the use of Nostrums. Quote
Flipz Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Man, I really want to fight an Aquaphant one day. And an Electriphant. And the fire version. Because reasons. And magic elephants. Magic elephants with elemental powers are cool. If only they wore fezzes. Or bow ties. Or both. There is a non-zero probability that I have had WAY too little sleep recently and may be suffering from some form of mild insanity as a result. Also, I'll be gone all afternoon tomorrow, so no starting minigames without me, Q70! Kthxbai! *exits stage right, pursued by an elephant* Quote
JimBee Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 How about this fix: QMs, this is a personal request/plea. Do not drop items with SP higher than 5 from now on. Ever. Just don't do it. Do THAT sparingly. SP 2 or 3 is great. Do that. Give it a few months. It should even out. Wholeheartedly agree. Like you said, it was once cool to give out the best loot, but of course that isn't viable as we've seen. I've been saying the same thing since the beginning: truly try to limit the SP on artifacts. Even the Heavy Armor is teetering on the line of OP (throw a Slowed-effect true to the artifact's name and it would be great). To be honest, Bright Polish is rather OP in my opinion, and I wouldn't object to the existing jars magically turning into a fair amount of cash and then the item never appearing again. I'd say they're rare enough to not be a problem. They're pretty cool IMO. Maybe limit them to just upgrading shields if we have to, but not right now. Man, I really want to fight an Aquaphant one day. And an Electriphant. And the fire version. Because reasons. And magic elephants. Magic elephants with elemental powers are cool. Almost had two in the battle. Then I remembered dropping four Aquamarines might anger the powers that be. (And also maybe took pity on my questies). I'd personally probably say the Amulet of the Court, but I don't think it's a totally unfair item over-all, and I'm interested what others have to say on the matter! I don't think the item is OP, but it certainly negates once-lethal effects like Petrified and Doomed. Quote
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