Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Flare]

Question, what would happen if someone were to have the Death Mask and the Red Assassin cloak?

It would be pointless to equip the Death Mask if the Red Assassin cloak is already equipped.

[Scubacarrot]

It would be pointless to equip the Death Mask if the Red Assassin cloak is already equipped.

Yeah okay that was I was thinking.

[Zepher]

Tree Topple: I'll count it as a critical hit, I suppose - can't have you nuking my boss monsters down to 1 HP instantly.

Hey there, that's part of making an enemy with a special like that! He should absolutely get nuked down to one if she mirrors that, its only fair! You can't nerf a class' skill just because it messes with your game.

[Endgame]

Hey there, that's part of making an enemy with a special like that! He should absolutely get nuked down to one if she mirrors that, its only fair! You can't nerf a class' skill just because it messes with your game.

I'm also letting her spawn an ensemble of minions ready to kamikaze, and have her pull of a Mass Illusion when she mirrors the Technique Satellite. I think I balanced the ability of mirror fair enough.

[Flare]

Hey there, that's part of making an enemy with a special like that! He should absolutely get nuked down to one if she mirrors that, its only fair! You can't nerf a class' skill just because it messes with your game.

What is he complaining about anyways? He is going to have another phase or two anyways...

I'm also letting her spawn an ensemble of minions ready to kamikaze, and have her pull of a Mass Illusion when she mirrors the Technique Satellite. I think I balanced the ability of mirror fair enough.

Play fair

[Waterbrick Down]

I'm also letting her spawn an ensemble of minions ready to kamikaze, and have her pull of a Mass Illusion when she mirrors the Technique Satellite. I think I balanced the ability of mirror fair enough.

Now, now, a QM trying to make things "fair" is either a sign of a poorly prepared party or a poorly designed monster. I don't think the special mirror should be adjusted, witches are supposed to be the counter to killer special damages.

[Flipz]

Now, now, a QM trying to make things "fair" is either a sign of a poorly prepared party or a poorly designed monster. I don't think the special mirror should be adjusted, witches are supposed to be the counter to killer special damages.

Exactly. As a rule of thumb, if you think a Special Mirror of your monster's Special is too OP for your fight, your monster's Special is the OP element.

Also, if I never hear the words "balance", "OP", or "nerf" again I will be a happy, happy man.

[Sandy]

Question, what would happen if someone were to have the Death Mask and the Red Assassin cloak?

That someone will instantly commit suicide because they cannot live with being so damn deadly.

[Kadabra]

Agreed. If you don't want the party to be able to do it to your monster, your monster shouldn't be able to do it to the party.

[Flare]

Agreed. If you don't want the party to be able to do it to your monster, your monster shouldn't be able to do it to the party.

Alternatively, don't host witches

[Flipz]

Alternatively, don't host witches

Actually, I think you should balance as if you were hosting a Witch, even if you aren't. It'll keep the more insane urges in check.

[Kadabra]

Alternatively, don't host witches

I personally think that if you balance Quests to take into account certain classes then it defeats the point of having those classes. In my opinion, QMs should balance Quests for a party of 6 with one of each basic class, with difficulty based on the desired level range. Then if a player struggles or is 'OP', then it's because he's reaping the benefits or dealing with the disadvantages of his advanced/expert class choice. It makes the choice feel more meaningful, at least to me. I've never hosted, though, so I have no idea how well that would work, but I think the principle at least is sound.

[Scubacarrot]

I disagree completely. I think you should balance for the party, it will create much more interesting, potential personalized battles.

[Kadabra]

I disagree completely. I think you should balance for the party, it will create much more interesting, potential personalized battles.

But if every battle you're in is tailored to you specifically, it takes the meaning out of personalizing your character. For example, if every enemy Docken faced could pierce SP or cause Enraged or something so as to provide a 'personalized challenge', then what was the point of him working away at accumulating SP and effects that allow him to become an ultimate back-row tank? It feels cheap to me.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Kadabra

[Scubacarrot]

I disagree, I think you should change your view from: I am making myself stronger, to: I am personalizing this aspect. This is true because as you level up, get stronger equipment: get more stats, so do your enemies. As we continue on, we see more specialized heroes. Healers, damage dealers, damage absorbers, buffers, debuffers, etc.

To me the game would feel incredibly stupid if you could do a certain thing and be immune to 90% of what comes your way, which is what would happen if there were the same sets of enemies for every group that would do a certain quest.

That said, I must admit to not yet really having seen a party, that was advanced enough to have a role distribution, have enough real difficulty with something. Nyx dying over and over again does not count, because that's just chance, there's nothing you can do about it. I will try, and try is the keyword, to really put the party through their paces.

[Flare]

I disagree, I think you should change your view from: I am making myself stronger, to: I am personalizing this aspect. This is true because as you level up, get stronger equipment: get more stats, so do your enemies. As we continue on, we see more specialized heroes. Healers, damage dealers, damage absorbers, buffers, debuffers, etc.

To me the game would feel incredibly stupid if you could do a certain thing and be immune to 90% of what comes your way, which is what would happen if there were the same sets of enemies for every group that would do a certain quest.

I think I am agreeing with Scubacarrot. If you spent enough energy to get immunities to 90% of effects, then you should reap the rewards of it. Its not really fair to deny you the privilege of being protected by personalizing each battle. I think a little bit of personalization is acceptable but overall the battle should be planned without prior knowledge of the actual players.

[Scubacarrot]

I think I am agreeing with Scubacarrot. If you spent enough energy to get immunities to 90% of effects, then you should reap the rewards of it. Its not really fair to deny you the privilege of being protected by personalizing each battle. I think a little bit of personalization is acceptable but overall the battle should be planned without prior knowledge of the actual players.

Then you are disagreeing with me.

And that specialization is something I would love to see more enough. Not everyone should be able to do everything, in fact, no one should be able to everything. How can you force that? Beat people until they will do it by themselves, in friendlier words: Make battles harder.

[Kadabra]

I disagree, I think you should change your view from: I am making myself stronger, to: I am personalizing this aspect. This is true because as you level up, get stronger equipment: get more stats, so do your enemies. As we continue on, we see more specialized heroes. Healers, damage dealers, damage absorbers, buffers, debuffers, etc.

To me the game would feel incredibly stupid if you could do a certain thing and be immune to 90% of what comes your way, which is what would happen if there were the same sets of enemies for every group that would do a certain quest.

That said, I must admit to not yet really having seen a party, that was advanced enough to have a role distribution, have enough real difficulty with something. Nyx dying over and over again does not count, because that's just chance, there's nothing you can do about it. I will try, and try is the keyword, to really put the party through their paces.

I'm not saying that enemies shouldn't grow stronger, but they should grow stronger according to their role and design, not in a way specifically designed to challenge a certain party. If you have a Level 20 Warden with 10SP fighting a Level 20 monster designed to be a 'juggernaut' type enemy who has tons of HP and will grind away at the party's health while they are all forced to attack it so it does quicker, then the Warden should be allowed to just chip away at the juggernaut from the back row, taking 0 damage and dealing little damage in return while the rest of the party takes on other enemies. The Warden gets to fill his role as a back row damage sponge and he gets to feel like, 'Wow! My character gets to really shine in this battle! I took out a powerful enemy all by myself!" If you make the monster pierce SP or cause Enraged, both a) it doesn't fit with the original character concept for that enemy and b) it cheapens the choice of class for the Warden, who doesn't get to plat his role in the party.

[Scubacarrot]

Designing a battle for a party is not the same thing as making every monster be able to hit everyone and immunities not matter.

[Zepher]

I never change my enemies for my party - I am of the opinion that it does indeed negate some of the work the heroes have done. That being said, I understand the other philosophy. It's just not my personal taste.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I usually just change numbers. Everything would be the same, except for maybe level and health. (And sometimes I put a few Immune to Instakills on, because I don't want my minions dying so soon. The battle becomes no fun, IMO, if it lasts 5 rounds cause someone instakilled anything. There's no dramatic attacks, or desperate strategizing!)

[Kadabra]

Designing a battle for a party is not the same thing as making every monster be able to hit everyone and immunities not matter.

Designing encounters so that players will shine in some battles and struggle in others is the same thing as not tailoring the battles to the party so that they struggle in battles that their character is not suited to and excel in those that they are suited to, just more artificial, in my opinion. Guess we'll just agree to disagree.

[Endgame]

It's the equivalent of making a boss immune to insta-kill, in my mind. It happens to assassins all the time, I'm still allowing the Witch to do a sizable chunk of damage on the Amalgam, even when rolling a special.

It's not as if an assassin is upset when they can't assassinate the big boss monster.

Also: Amalgam is a one phaser, maybe 1.5. It'll have its specials buffed slightly, but that is all.

Exactly. As a rule of thumb, if you think a Special Mirror of your monster's Special is too OP for your fight, your monster's Special is the OP element.

I'd have to disagree with this. Tree Topple has a 0% chance of ever KOing the hero. If used on the Amalgam it completely circumvents the climatic encounter.

[Waterbrick Down]

It's the equivalent of making a boss immune to insta-kill, in my mind. It happens to assassins all the time, I'm still allowing the Witch to do a sizable chunk of damage on the Amalgam, even when rolling a special.

It's not as if an assassin is upset when they can't assassinate the big boss monster.

Also: Amalgam is a one phaser, maybe 1.5. It'll have its specials buffed slightly, but that is all.

I'd have to disagree with this. Tree Topple has a 0% chance of ever KOing the hero. If used on the Amalgam it completely circumvents the climatic encounter.

Then you needed to provide an addendum or a way to circumvent it without twisting the rules. Assassins aren't upset with No-KO bosses because they specifically state that in the enemy's passive special and do not require a bending of the rules.

[Endgame]

Equal more along the lines of "I can't use my class's ability to its full capacity." As an Assassin, even if 50% of all enemies were immune to insta-kill, I personally would still be okay with it.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Endgame