Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Waterbrick Down]

Equal more along the lines of "I can't use my class's ability to its full capacity." As an Assassin, even if 50% of all enemies were immune to insta-kill, I personally would still be okay with it.

Yes but you can't use how you would feel about the situation to determine how someone else should feel about it. Rules stickler here I'm afraid, set things in stone, learn from your mistakes, and no tampering.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Waterbrick Down

[Kadabra]

But you're literally changing a class's roll. That would be like if a player got a Critical Hit that did too much damage to your monster so you changed it to a Hit. Insta kill is an added effect, not part of the core roll itself.

[Scorpiox]

If you've got a witch in the party and are afraid of your monster being crippled too easily, don't create a special that has potential to do so if mirrored. That's all I can say.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Scorpiox

[Endgame]

But you're literally changing a class's roll. That would be like if a player got a Critical Hit that did too much damage to your monster so you changed it to a Hit. Insta kill is an added effect, not part of the core roll itself.

That's an entirely different situation, however. The rules for WP and multipliers are completely set in stone - An Enemy does not equal a Hero, and their specials can be something normally completely and utterly outside of a hero's grasp.

I thought that changing the special would be more ill received than changing the mirror effect (I was cursing myself pretty heavily when the mirror was pointed out), but it appears I was mistaken. I'd be willing to change the special to "Does damage equal to Level x2 and removes one positive effect" or simply allow it to be mirrored exactly, but I'll leave that decision in the hands of the spectators/Kintobor, considering he is the one playing the Special Mirror-er in question.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Endgame

[Kadabra]

It's not really different at all: A critical does WPx2+Level damage. A Special Mirror does exactly what the enemy's 'special' says. Both are set in stone.

[Endgame]

So, the choices are (I'll allow the spectators/questies to decide):

-Keep it as-is (I highly doubt this will be chosen, and I fully understand the reason why)

-Alter the special slightly ( "Does damage equal to Level x2 and removes one positive effect" - does a minimum of 104 damage back to the Amalgam)

-Exact Mirror (Reduces the Amalgam to 1 HP.)

Edited September 8, 2013 by Endgame

[Waterbrick Down]

So, the choices are (I'll allow the spectators/questies to decide):

-Keep it as-is (I highly doubt this will be chosen, and I fully understand the reason why)

-Alter the special slightly ( "Does damage equal to Level x2 and removes one positive effect" - does a minimum of 104 damage back to the Amalgam)

-Exact Mirror (Reduces the Amalgam to 1 HP.)

I'd say option 2 is best if your players will be lenient with you. Making a monster more challenging is almost always a better alternative psycologically, than making a hero weaker.

[Kadabra]

I'd say Exact Mirror, just because that's what the roll does and that's what the special is meant to do. I'm not trying to pick on you but this is probably a good learning experience for the next time you design a ridiculous multiphase boss monster so it's fun for everybody.

[Scubacarrot]

I would recognize the mistake, and do what it said on the tin. Sure it sucks that your battle is 'ruined', but there you go, these sort of thing happen. You wouldn't be the first to have a battle turn out very differently than expected because of overlooked skills, overlooked items or ridiculous luck. It'd make good roleplaying, too.

[Zepher]

I agree. Sometimes, QMs mess up, and the questies get to take advantage of it. My rat battle was a huge mistake with a necromancer and witch, and they wiped the floor with it... but that's just what happened.

[Endgame]

Witches are officially terrifying.

[Scubacarrot]

Witches are officially terrifying.

Thotwick has been saying that for years.

[Waterbrick Down]

You know this brings up an entire topic on a QM's role and role-playing, but I think I'll bring it up in the QM lounge in another hour or two when I have a proper keyboard to type it out on.

[Endgame]

As a footnote: For any other enemy, I would switch to an exact mirror in a heartbeat, no exceptions. Boss Monsters have me hesitating because every single one goes through a minimum for 2 months of brainstorming and 4 drafts.

[Kadabra]

As a footnote: For any other enemy, I would switch to an exact mirror in a heartbeat, no exceptions. Boss Monsters have me hesitating because every single one goes through a minimum for 2 months of brainstorming and 4 drafts.

Brainstorm with a Witch looking over your shoulder and cackling with glee about your OP specials next time.

[Endgame]

Brainstorm with a Witch looking over your shoulder and cackling with glee about your OP specials next time.

The irony here is that I'm helping Kintobor plot his own boss battle.

Hey, I would hardly call a special with a 0% chance of knocking you out "OP". Too bad enemies and heroes scale completely differently at this stage.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Endgame

[Kintobor]

Do I not get a say in this?

No, I don't mind it changing. I'm pretty laid back when it comes to most things, and if you change it Endgame, I'm fine. I'd be fine with any of the options personally, since I'm the only one mirroring things, but that's just me.

Witches are officially terrifying.

I'm surprised how little we had up to this point. At first it was only Atramor, now it's myself and Sarge included! We're taking over Heroica!

The irony here is that I'm helping Kintobor plot his own boss battle.

Especially when the battle is designed with a "how would Endgame do it" train of thought!

[Kadabra]

Witch is quirky for a Rogue/Cleric, to me it seems like it should have somehow been Mage, as I just can't see many Clerics (with a strong Divine Magic theme) taking up a pointed hat or a monocle in order to cackle and cast spells for poison and hypnosis. Maybe that's why all three Witches are original Rogues. But the class itself is great, I love the mechanics of it and I think Sorcerer definitely fits the Mage/Rogue combo better than Witch does, so I'm happy where things are.

[Endgame]

Do I not get a say in this?

No, I don't mind it changing. I'm pretty laid back when it comes to most things, and if you change it Endgame, I'm fine. I'd be fine with any of the options personally, since I'm the only one mirroring things, but that's just me.

I'm surprised how little we had up to this point. At first it was only Atramor, now it's myself and Sarge included! We're taking over Heroica!

Especially when the battle is designed with a "how would Endgame do it" train of thought!

I said I was going to value your input most.

I will be going with option number 2. it equates to almost the same amount of damage, and Karie could still potentially mirror it for high amounts of damage. Compromise, huzzah!

Apologies to everyone involved in this debate, it was indeed one of those moment where I'm thicker than a brick wall.

I'm just glad my 4.5 months of plotting and 11 full drafts won't get wasted.

[Kadabra]

I said I was going to value your input most.

I will be going with option number 2. it equates to almost the same amount of damage, and Karie could still potentially mirror it for high amounts of damage. Compromise, huzzah!

Apologies to everyone involved in this debate, it was indeed one of those moment where I'm thicker than a brick wall.

I'm just glad my 4.5 months of plotting and 11 full drafts won't get wasted.

Bah, retcons.

[Endgame]

I was honestly under the impression that changing the special would get more backlash than changing the mirror! I suppose people prefer having an enemy altered instead of having themselves altered, which makes sense logically. Something I'll definitely keep in mind.

[Kadabra]

I was honestly under the impression that changing the special would get more backlash than changing the mirror! I suppose people prefer having an enemy altered instead of having themselves altered, which makes sense logically. Something I'll definitely keep in mind.

It's more like they prefer to face stronger enemies than have themselves become weaker, I think. If you made an enemy too OP they probably wouldn't mind you buffing them.

[JimBee]

It's not as if an assassin is upset when they can't assassinate the big boss monster.

No, but it's annoying when the entire class is nullified by the fact that 90% of enemies in quests are immune to OHKO. Should we start making enemies immune to Tesni because she can basically assassinate enemies through sheer power?

[Endgame]

Maybe I'm just really passive about that, then. I think having the 1st/2nd highest WP weapon in the game contributes to that.

I've always seen assassins as pest control, anyway.

Also, sweet merciful batman Kintobor, that is the most conditional actions I've ever seen for a three person group.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Endgame

[Kintobor]

No, but it's annoying when the entire class is nullified by the fact that 90% of enemies in quests are immune to OHKO. Should we start making enemies immune to Tesni because she can basically assassinate enemies through sheer power?

Big Bad Boss #4

Level 68 Beast *Immune to Stun, Sudden Death, and Tesni Hightribe*

HP: 900/900

Special: Grudge- Instantly kills Tesni Hightribe. No ifs, ands ,or buts.

Passive Special: Did what he set out to do- When Big Bad Boss #4 kills Tesni Hightribe, it immediately leaves combat.

Also, sweet merciful batman Kintobor, that is the most conditional actions I've ever seen for a three person group.

I don't know how some of you can deal with that kind of micro management. Please, someone go back and double check, because I probably screwed up somewhere.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Kintobor