Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Scubacarrot]

Sounds like a certain someone's enemies that were immune to Lifestealer.

[Endgame]

Hey, at least you are almost guaranteed to not get blown up at all with that plan.

[Rumble Strike]

Sounds like a certain someone's enemies that were immune to Lifestealer.

Hey you caused that yourself by something you said about a weapon given by Sorona not working against her. I though it was a good idea. Totally justified in storyline terms

[Palathadric]

I usually just change numbers. Everything would be the same, except for maybe level and health. (And sometimes I put a few Immune to Instakills on, because I don't want my minions dying so soon. The battle becomes no fun, IMO, if it lasts 5 rounds cause someone instakilled anything. There's no dramatic attacks, or desperate strategizing!)

What's wrong with 1 round battles? We need more short battles. Why not hike up the Levels while dropping the HP...significantly. Kill or be killed. You either take out the enemy or you're toast. I don't think there should be much need, in general, for battles to last longer than 10 rounds.

Actually, I think you should balance as if you were hosting a Witch, even if you aren't. It'll keep the more insane urges in check.

I agree. Balance your quests as if different classes were involved. Of course, you may not be able to do this all the time, but for instance, slapping on an "immune to insta-kill," even though there's no assassin in the party, just makes it seem more real and not like the guy would've been a walk in the park to defeat had the party thought to bring an assassin along with them.

Okay, maybe that was a bad example...

Witches are officially terrifying.

Thotwick has been saying that for years.

Looks like Thothwick has a new disciple. It's funny. Pretzel would join their side, not being a fan of witches himself, but I think he's even less of a fan of monkey-men and dead-men-walking.

[Kadabra]

Totally agree. I'd love to see a character get set up as a boss and then be Level 1 with 2 HP and just get destroyed by a party or Level 20 something's. Not every person the Heroes meet has to be competent in a fight - heck, not even all the antagonists do. Some people survive off their brains and a Orc with a broadsword could kill them with a batted eyelash, and it'd be cool to see that reflected in game.

[CMP]

I considered bringing this up yesterday but figured if Kint was okay with it it didn't really matter. I personally wouldn't put up with it though. You can't just ignore/change certain aspects of a class that make your battle more complex/easier. Same goes for weapons and such, too. That's why the Quest 69 party has been crumbling their own armor before they can even loot it.

The same thing goes for the weird mechanic you have where the Necromancer can't revive the Oculoid minions until a certain number have died. That's just not how it works. He revives enemies killed. That's it.

[Endgame]

The same thing goes for the weird mechanic you have where the Necromancer can't revive the Oculoid minions until a certain number have died. That's just not how it works. He revives enemies killed. That's it.

I actually did that to beenfit Althior. This way he gets a minion he could actually use to fight off the Satellites rather then just get a multiplier. (A multiplier he would contantly have to put himself at risk with the Amalgam to use to its full extent, putting his army at risk anyway.)

[CMP]

I actually did that to beenfit Althior. This way he gets a minion he could actually use to fight off the Satellites rather then just get a multiplier. (A multiplier he would contantly have to put himself at risk with the Amalgam to use to its full extent, putting his army at risk anyway.)

That doesn't change anything. It's still not how the class works.

[Palathadric]

Wow! There's a lot of people browsing the Heroica forum at present.

[Zepher]

Maybe its because I've quested beside/hosted Atramor so many times during his witchhood, but I agree 100% with CMP. Sometimes you just have to deal with the consequences of your actions. Its your quest, and you, Kint and K-Nut are the ones who are supposed to extract fun from it, so if you find this more fun than I can't really fault you, but if I was in the quest/hosting the quest, I would be calling bull.

[Endgame]

Of course if a questie/enough people objects to an element, I'm always willing to reevaluate something. I try to stay a flexible QM.

You folks were correct: I was 100% wrong on the Tree Topple thing. However, my philosophy on this boss battle as a whole:

I actually looked towards survival horror genre for this one. In most survival horror games, you are only given a limited number of ammunition to use throughout. You have to make every shot, every encounter count, or you're going to be in for a rough time. Here, the Amalgam has put some limits on the heroes. This battle was designed so the party had to make effective use of what they've got. Every round and action mattered - One poorly strategized round and the Amalgam could turn the tables. Even before battle order and who attacks who can be decided, the priority of which satellites can be allowed to live and which need to die have to be determined before the party can really do anything. Of course, even then, the battle is salvageable if they mess up - the party has quite a few Pheonix Essences, and a weapon that can nerf the Amalgam - but they must tread carefully. There really isn't a single round in the boss that can be uneventful.

Something similar in concept and strategy could've been pulled off with no limitations, but it'd require even more fine print, even more passives, even more complications to get across what I wanted to. I streamlined the battle so it'd be easier/more enjoyable in general, but if anyobdy in 79 feels like their class is getting stepped on, don't be afraid to tell me. I am willing to make adjustments, and there is a portion of the battle where you will get to use your full arsenal freely.

Sorry if that is a bit wall of text-y/rant-ish, but I'm just trying to share my intentions for this battle. Your QM is a human (or at least, a computer resembling one, as Danny would have you believe), so don't be afraid to talk to me.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Endgame

[Capt.JohnPaul]

What's wrong with 1 round battles? We need more short battles. Why not hike up the Levels while dropping the HP...significantly. Kill or be killed. You either take out the enemy or you're toast. I don't think there should be much need, in general, for battles to last longer than 10 rounds.

Because you actually get experience from battles. I don't think it would be fair for everyone to go round after round, using consumables and desperately attacking, when in another quest- someone does a 1 round battle, and gets the same level experience.

Though I would love to see a brainy boss, with 1 HP or something (maybe not that low) but he has an insane amount of Passive Specials, or he has the ability to dodge attacks or something.

[Endgame]

Though I would love to see a brainy boss, with 1 HP or something (maybe not that low) but he has an insane amount of Passive Specials, or he has the ability to dodge attacks or something.

So essentially Violetta 2?

[Flare]

Passive Special #41: If a witch happens to mirror any of Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss's specials, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will triple its level and have a 5/6 chance to dodge any damage during the remaining duration of the battle. If the damage is successful the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will have a 5/6 chance to absorb this damage and add that amount as SP for the next six rounds. If the damage is not absorbed, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss regains full health and afterwards is damaged with the amount of damage caused, however the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will gain the Encouraged, Lucky, Hastened, Reinforced, and every other positive effect while transferring all of its negative effects and whatever negative effects it didn't have on the entire opponent party and at the same time causes damage to each member of the opponent party with damage equal to (10 * die number rolled). If opponent is jinxed the higher number of two rolls is used. For each opponent knocked out, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will double its health and triple its Level. Tl;dr you're doomed. If a witch hasn't mirrored any specials, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss makes cookies instead of a free hit for the enjoyment of all battle members. If no witch is present in the battle, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will also prepare mint chocolate chip ice cream for all battle members, free of charge.

[Chromeknight]

Because you actually get experience from battles. I don't think it would be fair for everyone to go round after round, using consumables and desperately attacking, when in another quest- someone does a 1 round battle, and gets the same level experience.

How do we as a community balance this across multiple QMs though?

I know of one situation where a QM was prodded for having an easy battle, but not every quest is the same.

Look at Guts and Nerwen.

Both started in the same quest. Both have been played continuously by committed players.

But Guts has completed 9 quests reaching level 26 (ie, 46 xp)

In the same amount of time Nerwen was on 6 quests reaching level 20 (ie 30 XP)

Sure, both are averaging 5 XP per quest, but Nerwen has taken much longer to earn hers.

Guts

#13 55 days 6 levels 0.109 Rumblestrike

#20 75 days 5 levels 0.066 Username MDM

#26 34 days 4 levels 0.117 Xarrzan

#34 41 days 8 levels. 0.195 Sandy

#39 33 days 4 levels. 0.121 Zepher

#44 76 days 4 levels 0.052 Sandy

#52 71 days 6 levels 0.084 Rumblestrike

#58 33 days 2 levels. 0.060 Sandy

#63 30 days 6 levels 0.200 Masked Builder

Nerwen

#13 55 days 6 levels 0.109 Rumblestrike

#21 cancelled

#29 117 days 8 levels 0.068 JimButcher (with Zepher/Brickdoctor)

#44 76 days 4 levels 0.052 Sandy

#52 71 days 6 levels 0.084 Rumblestike

#58 33 days 2 levels 0.060 Sandy

#65 86 days 4 levels 0.046 Waterbrick Down

Now, some of my favourite quests have had the lowest XP/day numbers and XP isn't the total story stats wise either (but analysing gold/loot values is even more laborious). And some of the difference is in quest availabilities, but clearly some quests are just 'faster' xp wise. A Masked quest or Sandy's outlier of #34 accrue XP at nearly four times the rate of story focussed quests or ones with large groups like Dastan or #44. Not all quests are created equal.

(Also, it'd be fascinating to look at endgame!s and Brickdoctor's numbers, see how consistent each is.)

Edited September 9, 2013 by Chromeknight

[CMP]

Passive Special #41: If a witch happens to mirror any of Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss's specials, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will triple its level and have a 5/6 chance to dodge any damage during the remaining duration of the battle. If the damage is successful the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will have a 5/6 chance to absorb this damage and add that amount as SP for the next six rounds. If the damage is not absorbed, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss regains full health and afterwards is damaged with the amount of damage caused, however the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will gain the Encouraged, Lucky, Hastened, Reinforced, and every other positive effect while transferring all of its negative effects and whatever negative effects it didn't have on the entire opponent party and at the same time causes damage to each member of the opponent party with damage equal to (10 * die number rolled). If opponent is jinxed the higher number of two rolls is used. For each opponent knocked out, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will double its health and triple its Level. Tl;dr you're doomed. If a witch hasn't mirrored any specials, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss makes cookies instead of a free hit for the enjoyment of all battle members. If no witch is present in the battle, the Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will also prepare mint chocolate chip ice cream for all battle members, free of charge.

Passive Special #42: For every cookie and ounce of mint chocolate chip ice cream in battle, Super-Duper-End-of-the-Game-Boss will spawn one Spirit-of-the-Super-Middle-of-the-Game-Miniboss.

[Scubacarrot]

Meh, Zepher's current quest is pulling it down by quite a bit. (91 days so far, 2x experience) Also remember the numbers get kinda messed up by experience as rewards.

And Hall downtime is an unpredictable factor. Sometimes you get to be in the hall for weeks, months, the next time you are good to go in the same week.

[Waterbrick Down]

Of course if a questie/enough people objects to an element, I'm always willing to reevaluate something. I try to stay a flexible QM.

You folks were correct: I was 100% wrong on the Tree Topple thing. However, my philosophy on this boss battle as a whole:

I actually looked towards survival horror genre for this one. In most survival horror games, you are only given a limited number of ammunition to use throughout. You have to make every shot, every encounter count, or you're going to be in for a rough time. Here, the Amalgam has put some limits on the heroes. This battle was designed so the party had to make effective use of what they've got. Every round and action mattered - One poorly strategized round and the Amalgam could turn the tables. Even before battle order and who attacks who can be decided, the priority of which satellites can be allowed to live and which need to die have to be determined before the party can really do anything. Of course, even then, the battle is salvageable if they mess up - the party has quite a few Pheonix Essences, and a weapon that can nerf the Amalgam - but they must tread carefully. There really isn't a single round in the boss that can be uneventful.

Something similar in concept and strategy could've been pulled off with no limitations, but it'd require even more fine print, even more passives, even more complications to get across what I wanted to. I streamlined the battle so it'd be easier/more enjoyable in general, but if anyobdy in 79 feels like their class is getting stepped on, don't be afraid to tell me. I am willing to make adjustments, and there is a portion of the battle where you will get to use your full arsenal freely.

Sorry if that is a bit wall of text-y/rant-ish, but I'm just trying to share my intentions for this battle. Your QM is a human (or at least, a computer resembling one, as Danny would have you believe), so don't be afraid to talk to me.

I like how you're trying something new and want to be innovative, but remember people signed up for Heroica RPG not a survival horror game. If as QM's we aren't able to achieve an effect we desire with the game structure as is, then we may need to either scale it back or look for a different game that suits it better. Sometimes there is room for innovation and if you and your party are cool with doing stuff like that, then sure go ahead, but we as QM's shouldn't assume that a player is going to/should like a certain battle setup or style just because we put a lot of time into planning it. Thank you for also asking for honest feedback from your players, Endgame, I sometimes worry that most folks put up with stuff because they'd rather just play the game then admit they're not having as much fun as they could and risk not playing at all.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Ya, best just to accept the mistake/error and move on. I remember in my first quest, the party had to fight 25+ zombies with 1 health. I forgot they had a bomb.... I couldn't change the stats, that wouldn't be fair. Just learn and move on. You can always host another quest. (Or just have a 2nd phase. )

[Brickdoctor]

Interesting, the Cloak of the Red Assassin also includes Wizard Hat Dye in red. I like the new Hybros.

[Kadabra]

Yes, I like his new pants, scarf, and hat that apparently come with the cloak. It's a good look, though. Nice fig.

[Zepher]

Our little Hybros is growing up. Update on its way, 72ers... we're just wrapping up now, should only be a day or two now. Tuesdays are busy for me, but Wednesday should be the end of our little tale.

[CMP]

New Hybros looks pretty awesome to me.

[JimBee]

Thanks guys, but it was Sandy who built and photographed the little guy for me. After all, he's one of few who own a rare red wizard hat.

Now, if Nyx won't be needing that Cloak of the Blue Assassin....

Er, any suggestions on a dark blue or blue torso for Hybros?

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Any new quests coming up? The Hall has been sort of out of them, and I'd love to spectate some more.