Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Etzel]

Wha--? the only follower of Ennoc I know of is Ellaria. You guys want to kill Ellaria? Sandy's character?!

I've deliberately avoided reading in-progress Quests, with the exception of Quest 8 (because it will be done soon and I would have forgotten to read it otherwise) and Quest 14. Once we actually start the Quest, I'm going to roll a die, and assign myself a [Current Level] in 6 chance of successfully using a scry spell to see what's happened on the other Quest(s). If it succeeds, I'll read the Quest topic for as far as time allows me; if it fails, I will resist the temptation. This way, I can avoid Arthur accidentally learning things through out-of-character knowledge.

Ellaria follows Sylvania, the forest goddess. Maurice, however, is a faithful follower of the Righteous Light.

[Tamamono]

The situation reminds me a little of Quest 4, where I briefly hijacked the plot because De'kra's memories got set back to zero. I had asked the QM if it would be okay first though, so that might have changed the event.

That was the first thought that came to my head when Leo fell under control of his sword. I always end up with the melodramatic ones...

I think the growth your characters (and actually, lots of players' character) are going through is pretty interesting. It acts as really good character development, and gives a whole new layer to the quests.

I would develop Tomas' character, but I'm terrible at role-play.

[Brickdoctor]

Quest 16 is starting to look a lot like what I've planned for Quest 17.

[Peppermint_M]

Darkness and Light need each other to exist. Nothing can be seen in all Light nor all Darkness, the shadows define our world...

[Tanma]

OK, thanks!

Slaughter all followers of Ennoc? Who is being prejudiced now?

Fair enough, what group doesn't have messed up characters in it's ranks? I was overreacting perhaps, but still those guys rub me the wrong way. Something about their...tactics, as seen in Quest 12 and Quest 16, gives me the feeling that Ennon's destruction was not unprovoked. At least a lot of them appear to be a bunch of racists perfectly willing to massacre a village because of bloodline. Plus they messed with Cronk. Nobody messes with Cronk.

Wha--? the only follower of Ennoc I know of is Ellaria. You guys want to kill Ellaria? Sandy's character?!

I've deliberately avoided reading in-progress Quests, with the exception of Quest 8 (because it will be done soon and I would have forgotten to read it otherwise) and Quest 14. Once we actually start the Quest, I'm going to roll a die, and assign myself a [Current Level] in 6 chance of successfully using a scry spell to see what's happened on the other Quest(s). If it succeeds, I'll read the Quest topic for as far as time allows me; if it fails, I will resist the temptation. This way, I can avoid Arthur accidentally learning things through out-of-character knowledge.

Actually she follows the goddess of nature last I checked.

Edit:

Darkness and Light need each other to exist. Nothing can be seen in all Light nor all Darkness, the shadows define our world...

For dark and light are a part of us all, would we know darkness without light? Or light without shadow? Can the mind of mortals imagine a world with neither dark nor light, or even a world where only one exists. Inside us all lurks good and evil, aggression and submission, deceit and honesty. Without the illumination of light, would one know how to manipulate? And without the rage of shadows, would one have the will to stand up for what is right? Neither light and shadow can survive by themselves. Only Gloaming is balanced, and through gloaming we are alive.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Tanma

[Scubacarrot]

I think it would actually be pretty cool to know what the gods are that the clerics follow, we know it from some, but defenitely not all.

[Khorne]

Fair enough, what group doesn't have messed up characters in it's ranks? I was overreacting perhaps, but still those guys rub me the wrong way. Something about their...tactics, as seen in Quest 12 and Quest 16, gives me the feeling that Ennon's destruction was not unprovoked. At least a lot of them appear to be a bunch of racists perfectly willing to massacre a village because of bloodline. Plus they messed with Cronk. Nobody messes with Cronk.

*raises hand* My group is composed of fully sane, non-messed up people .

How did Ennoc get involved in Quest #12, though? I thought Quest #12 was about saving gnome kids from an Orcish group of mercenaries? Or did I miss something there?

[TheBoyWonder]

I did take inspiration from Tesni slightly.

[Tanma]

*raises hand* My group is composed of fully sane, non-messed up people .

How did Ennoc get involved in Quest #12, though? I thought Quest #12 was about saving gnome kids from an Orcish group of mercenaries? Or did I miss something there?

Check into the Orc's backstory, they accepted the job to rescue the children because they needed money for their village, which was massacred by Ennoc followers.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Tanma

[Etzel]

*raises hand* My group is composed of fully sane, non-messed up people .

How did Ennoc get involved in Quest #12, though? I thought Quest #12 was about saving gnome kids from an Orcish group of mercenaries? Or did I miss something there?

Apparently some followers of Ennoc had kidnapped the Orcish group's friends and demanded ransom for them. That was why the orcs wanted to be the ones to return the kids to the gnome inventor and get the reward so they could pay the gold. Although, this is just based on what the orcs themselves said, and we all know that greenskins are liars.

[Khorne]

Check into the Orc's backstory, they accepted the job to rescue the children because they needed money for their village, which was massacred by Ennoc followers.

Apparently some followers of Ennoc had kidnapped the Orcish group's friends and demanded ransom for them. That was why the orcs wanted to be the ones to return the kids to the gnome inventor and get the reward so they could pay the gold. Although, this is just based on what the orcs themselves said, and we all know that greenskins are liars.

Okay, thanks for filling me in . I knew the Orcs had taken the job to help some Orc friends out, but I didn't know their friends were in trouble because of Ennoc worshippers. Must've missed that part somewhere .

[Tamamono]

I think it would actually be pretty cool to know what the gods are that the clerics follow, we know it from some, but defenitely not all.

To be honest, I haven't even decided which god Tomas follows. I'll definitely be clarifying that when he advances to Sage, though.

[Peppermint_M]

I did take inspiration from Tesni slightly.

Try not to hijack the game with it.

You may have noticed that the whole sword possesion thing started off in a battle and carried on from there. The Sword accepting Tesni while another rejected Hoke in Tesni's second quest helped the idea of the sword acting through my character come to be.

All other occurances of the sword acting/possessing/using Tesni moved with the flow of the game. They didn't make a bump in game progression. I coloured my text to add a visual cue that her voice is altered, it has darkened a shade now, in a quest where the antagonist is someone who uses a form of darkness the entity of Cysgodion disagrees with. I may or may not play more of my story into the game if a situation arises that I could, but I am not forcing it.

I love to write and this game is giving me plenty of chances to work off others and develop a character in someone elses sandbox

[Sandy]

To be honest, I haven't even decided which god Tomas follows. I'll definitely be clarifying that when he advances to Sage, though.

I'd like to remind that the gods and goddesses listed in the Library topic are only the most common deities worshipped in Eubric (not in Olegaia as a whole). You are totally free to make up your own deities, or give your own names to the existing deities (since they are known by different names in different cultures).

The religious system in Eubric is not exactly polytheistic, though. Most people worship just one or a pair of deities, but they accept that other deities do exist and that those have their own followers. Naturally some cults try to convert people to worship their deity, but it's not in the style of "our god is the only one and other gods are heretic figments of imagination", but more like "our god is better than yours".

[Fred Daniel Yam]

Yay! Quest 17 has started!

[Flipz]

I'd like to remind that the gods and goddesses listed in the Library topic are only the most common deities worshipped in Eubric (not in Olegaia as a whole). You are totally free to make up your own deities, or give your own names to the existing deities (since they are known by different names in different cultures).

The religious system in Eubric is not exactly polytheistic, though. Most people worship just one or a pair of deities, but they accept that other deities do exist and that those have their own followers. Naturally some cults try to convert people to worship their deity, but it's not in the style of "our god is the only one and other gods are heretic figments of imagination", but more like "our god is better than yours".

A question: do the gods of the RPG world follow the same deity "rules" as D&D/Planescape?

[Sandy]

A question: do the gods of the RPG world follow the same deity "rules" as D&D/Planescape?

It depends on what those rules are.

I've never played D&D...

[Flipz]

It depends on what those rules are.

I've never played D&D...

Basically, a being becomes a god by gaining enough worshippers; their faith in the god is what grants the god their strength relative to each other (once they reach the point where their divine power is self-sustaining, that is). All of the gods reside in the various Astral planes, and though two given gods may share the same alignment (Lawful Good, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil, etc.), they are in a competition for followers. At best, two identically-aligned gods are friendly competitors; at worst (especially for Neutral- and Evil-aligned gods), the gods may instruct their clerics to encourage holy wars against followers of the other deity. The gods of the various pantheons (Greek, Norse, Elven, the Chinese Zodiac creatures, etc.) are groups of gods of various alignments who have agreed to work together in a sort of mutual compact. There is still competition between the members of the given pantheon, but there is rarely any war between followers, and the pantheon generally maintains a near-"monopoly" of worship in a geographic area (and are well-represented abroad as well). In addition, some gods and demigods focus their attention primarily on other Planes and Universes, but will still grant their followers power if they travel to the "main" planes. (If a given god/pantheon is particularly aggressive or territorial, this can spark cosmic conflict, but this is rare outside of the Lower Planes governed by Evil-aligned gods). In times of great crisis that threaten the existence of the multiverse, large groups of gods may gather together to combine their divine resources to combat the effect.

I'd recommend reading Planescape Survival Guide, it explains things much better. (As an added bonus, the author writes a second webcomic, Harry Potter Comics, which is made entirely in Lego!)

[Sandy]

I don't really prefer that approach to gods, since it makes them feel more like highly powerful beings rather than the manifestations of various concepts that they really are. In many fantasy settings gods can be killed, and that sounds just ridiculous to me. The only way to kill a god in my thinking is to kill everyone who believes in it and destroy all evidence that such a god has ever existed.

The gods in this game do not "exist" anywhere, since they are not physical beings tied to any specific location. Ennoc is the warm light that his followers feel on their faces and the sense of justice they hold in their heart, while Neron and Neredice are the fickle waves and storms that rage in the sea. Sure, the gods are depicted as having a humanoid form and bearing certain symbols, and they might appear to their followers in those forms too, but that is not what they really are. There is no Olympus in this game world where the gods would sit lazily and gaze upon the lives of mortals.

But this all can be discussed among the players. If you prefer some other view to the theological system in this game world, just say so.

[CMP]

Jeez, there's way to more to this game than it seems. I find it interesting how certain groups will approach the same god in different ways. Adds a whole new angle to the deity.

[Scubacarrot]

I don't really prefer that approach to gods, since it makes them feel more like highly powerful beings rather than the manifestations of various concepts that they really are. In many fantasy settings gods can be killed, and that sounds just ridiculous to me. The only way to kill a god in my thinking is to kill everyone who believes in it and destroy all evidence that such a god has ever existed.

The gods in this game do not "exist" anywhere, since they are not physical beings tied to any specific location. Ennoc is the warm light that his followers feel on their faces and the sense of justice they hold in their heart, while Neron and Neredice are the fickle waves and storms that rage in the sea. Sure, the gods are depicted as having a humanoid form and bearing certain symbols, and they might appear to their followers in those forms too, but that is not what they really are. There is no Olympus in this game world where the gods would sit lazily and gaze upon the lives of mortals.

But this all can be discussed among the players. If you prefer some other view to the theological system in this game world, just say so.

I must say that I like the approach you describe, Sandy, because it leaves a lot of room for interpretation by characters and npc's, but I would like to know how Zoot falls into this, no offense to anyone, but was'nt it the point of him in Quest 7 to be 'brought back' or 'resurrected' or something like that?

Edited December 13, 2011 by Scubacarrot

[Flipz]

The main thing I like about the D&D system for god is the "All Myths Are True" approach. Because of that, no character's beliefs can ever be "wrong," but at the same time it avoids the problams of the "all gods are different manifestations of the same universal divinity" approach. (I also like that it provides a legitimate reason that gods would want their followers to convert others.)

Explanatory link for "All Myths Are True":

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllMythsAreTrue

[Sandy]

I must say that I like the approach you describe, Sandy, because it leaves a lot of room for interpretation by characters and npc's, but I would like to know how Zoot falls into this, no offense to anyone, but was'nt it the point of him in Quest 8 to be 'brought back' or 'resurrected' or something like that?

Zoot is an anomaly among the gods. There are actually two Zoots - the concept of otherwordly evil and chaos that is Zoot and the archdemon Azazot that has been associated with the concept to the extent that they are tied together. Worshipping Zoot and calling him to aid actually attracts the attention of Azazot, but since Zoot is a phenomenon it can manifest in other ways than through the archdemon as well. So while the other gods do not have a physical form (with the possible exception of Sylvania, who is associated with the queen of fairies in a similar way that Zoot is also Azazot), Zoot actually has, but it resides in another plane of existence. This is at least how I've imagined it.

I'm eager to find out where the QMs who are using Zoot as a plot device are going with their stories. Will there be a major boss battle against Azazot or will another aspect of Zoot arise instead, I don't know. And I've given full liberties to those QMs to take their stories exactly where they want to, since Zoot is not involved in the main story that I am telling.

The main thing I like about the D&D system for god is the "All Myths Are True" approach. Because of that, no character's beliefs can ever be "wrong," but at the same time it avoids the problams of the "all gods are different manifestations of the same universal divinity" approach. (I also like that it provides a legitimate reason that gods would want their followers to convert others.)

And I actually dislike that approach, since it defies the concept of "myths" to begin with. Myths are not supposed to be realistic records of what has actually happened, but stories and allegories about the deities and their powers. None of the gods in this game are supposed to be "real" in the sense that they'd be exactly what their followers think they are. The gods are (or at least should be) larger than the mortals can even conceive. They are universal concepts, not just invisible beings hovering in the clouds above the planet or in an astral plane somewhere.

But again, this is just the way I like to think of them, you are free to make your own interpretations. (In real life, I'm actually an atheist, but the concept of god and religion has always fascinated me. But since real-life religion is a no-go subject in these forums, let's not go there.)

[Chromeknight]

*raises hand* My group is composed of fully sane, non-messed up people .

If there is a crazy in every group, and you look around and none of the others in your group are crazy, the conclusion is simple...

On the cleric topic, Nerwen follows Galadrya and Celebryon, which, from the library topic, are our names for Amadea and Melodion.

Some elves (obviously including Nerwen) believe they created the race of elves.

I think Barur and Sylph haven't spoken regarding Gods, when they do, that will be all 7 active clerics having weighed in.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Chromeknight

[Zepher]

I'm eager to find out where the QMs who are using Zoot as a plot device are going with their stories. Will there be a major boss battle against Azazot or will another aspect of Zoot arise instead, I don't know. And I've given full liberties to those QMs to take their stories exactly where they want to, since Zoot is not involved in the main story that I am telling.

I don't know who else is using Zoot, or which form of Zoot, but from the start of the Wren Quests I have known who the final boss of the Wren Quests (still planning a total of five ) will be. You did say at some point that you never wanted this game to involve heroes fighting Gods, so I've made sure that won't happen, but never fear, Zoot will be prominent and I think people will like the (potential) ending.

On the other side of things, Boomingham does not believe in any Gods, so he doesn't have to worry about it.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Zepher