Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Flare]

I am being perfectly honest here, and I can imagine most rogue players agree. If I do not get considered for gold/loot based on my rogue class, that PL better not expect me to revive, heal or in any other way boost them. It works both ways.

Well thats a good way to win thr battle. If thats the way you're gonna play then you might as well just flee the battle.

Anyways, its not like rogues are the only ones with essences! Geez you guys make it sound like you're the only ones who bother to carry around consumables with you, and that you are the ONLY ones who ever use their consumables on other heroes.... seriously...

[TheBoyWonder]

No, Flare, you do not see it. If you were a rogue class, you have lost decent income from the nerfs already, and then you get a PL who is rather stingy and in the entirety of a quest gives you barely

Rogues seem to be a scapegoat a lot in my opinion. Rogues earning to much gold-nerf. Rogues were DESIGNED to have more gold. Then people moan aboout this. Rogues get heavily nerfed with the only gold carrying enemies being able to steal from. Then, people still moan about their income and punish them. People are getting punished for finding loopholes and building a character to earn lots of gold.

Edited December 18, 2013 by TheBoyWonder

[UsernameMDM]

No, Flare, you do not see it. If you were a rogue class, you have lost decent income from the nerfs already, and then you get a PL who is rather stingy and in the entirety of a quest gives you barely anything.

Stingy? At the end of the battle everyone wound up with gold. The rogues got a whole lot more gold AND consumables/loot.

And we do not make it sound like that, but, when you use essences and it never gets acknowledged, you would be pretty angry.

Every PC uses Phoenix Essences. It's the (only?) one consumable you can't use on yourself. If you have one, you might as well consider it as belonging to the party.

Edited December 18, 2013 by UsernameMDM

[TheBoyWonder]

MDM, I was not referring to you, or any individual. You were pretty fair in my opinion. I was saying it hypothetically.

But in battles where gold is not earnt, or not enough gold to cover the essences, then it is only fair the rogue gets an essence/a small part of the gold loot.

I would just like to state that I am not aiming this at anyone.

[UsernameMDM]

But in battles where gold is not earnt, or not enough gold to cover the essences, then it is only fair the rogue gets an essence/a small part of the gold loot.

See, with something like that, I would spread the loot/gold out over every PC. Everyone winds up with something.

[Waterbrick Down]

Queston, if none of the rogues had stolen any gold in the last battle, how would the loot have been distributed?

[UsernameMDM]

Queston, if none of the rogues had stolen any gold in the last battle, how would the loot have been distributed?

50 gold a pop or whatever was even and consumables. Whoever got the beard and sword would be short at least the gold.

[Waterbrick Down]

See, with something like that, I would spread the loot/gold out over every PC. Everyone winds up with something.

So a rogue's ability to earn gold from the general loot pile is dependent on them performing badly? All other classes are compensated no matter what they roll, rogues are the exception?

Edited December 18, 2013 by Waterbrick Down

[UsernameMDM]

So a rogue's ability to earn gold from the general loot pile is dependent on them performing badly? All other classes are compensated no matter what they roll, rogues are the exception?

Case-by-case basis really. Like with Mystic Knights/Alchemist/Rogues/Tinkerer or whatever the new Marketplace Class is called, I look at what transpired over the course of a battle. If a Mystic Knight got an Enchantment or two, they wouldn't wind up with the Bright Polish or Grating Stone. If the Alchemist made a few items in their rolls and their inventories were pretty well stocked, then most consumables would be spread elsewhere. If a Rogue steals hundreds of gold in a battle, then the loot gold would go towards those who still fought but didn't have a means to generate gold.

[Scorpiox]

So a rogue's ability to earn gold from the general loot pile is dependent on them performing badly? All other classes are compensated no matter what they roll, rogues are the exception?

If a cleric were to roll a shield every round they could almost guarantee the party's victory. If a rogue were to roll the same... they would become very rich. Rogues are the only class whose special ability is self-orientated and not contributing to the victory. That is not to say that the rogue wouldn't also do damage that could turn the party's fortune, but they are the only class that, in effect, rewards themself for performing well.

[Sandy]

This is exactly why I instigated Party Leaders and gave them the ability to decide about the loot on the first case. Imagine if every battle would end with such petty bickering over virtual goodies...

Always remember, guys: this is a game. You aren't really losing anything even if you don't get that extra 50 gold after a battle!

[TheBoyWonder]

If a cleric were to roll a shield every round they could almost guarantee the party's victory. If a rogue were to roll the same... they would become very rich. Rogues are the only class whose special ability is self-orientated and not contributing to the victory. That is not to say that the rogue wouldn't also do damage that could turn the party's fortune, but they are the only class that, in effect, rewards themself for performing well.

I have to say that this is only in certain occasions. In the fields or several other quests, a Raider or Assassin getting a shield would highly impact the party's chance of success.

[Scorpiox]

Is anybody actually irritated here? I must have missed the point when this ceased being an intellectual debate.

I have to say that this is only in certain occasions. In the fields or several other quests, a Raider or Assassin getting a shield would highly impact the party's chance of success.

If a cleric were to roll a shield every round they could almost guarantee the party's victory. If a rogue were to roll the same... they would become very rich. Rogues are the only class whose special ability is self-orientated and not contributing to the victory. That is not to say that the rogue wouldn't also do damage that could turn the party's fortune, but they are the only class that, in effect, rewards themself for performing well.

[TheBoyWonder]

I am not irritated, just wanted to give an opinion.

I apologize if I came off as angry or rude to anyone.

[UsernameMDM]

Is anybody actually irritated here?

Nope, not at all.

[Waterbrick Down]

Nope, just making a case. Ultimately it comes down to ideologies, I don't think either side is "right" per say, we just have different opinions on what is "fair".

[CMP]

This is exactly why I instigated Party Leaders and gave them the ability to decide about the loot on the first case.

It's more a mistake on my part. I had both party leaders still being party leaders to keep the battle moving along and didn't think there'd be this much of an issue over loot distribution.

[UsernameMDM]

It's more a mistake on my part. I had both party leaders still being party leaders to keep the battle moving along and didn't think there'd be this much of an issue over loot distribution.

From previous quests, I was under the impression that Secondary/Second Party Leaders were there in large groups for battle purposes in case the Party Leader was KO'd and did not have out of battle command/party decision functions. But hey, it made for some good RPGing and brought up a conversation on play styles.

[Tachyon]

Better nerf some rogues.......

[Scorpiox]

Better nerf some rogues.......

It's obvious you have bitter feelings, so why not voice them in a more mature and useful way?

[Tachyon]

It's obvious you have bitter feelings, so why not voice them in a more mature and useful way?

Oh, no its just a tradition for me to say that when some really big argument comes up.

[swils]

You aren't really losing anything even if you don't get that extra 50 gold after a battle!

In this case, the difference on both sides of the coin (hehe, coin) came down to about 50 gold. I'm sure that's what you're referring to, what with both sides passionately defending their cause over that same 50 or so gold

[Waterbrick Down]

Better nerf some rogues.......

This needs to be a meme of some sort.

[Palathadric]

No more arena for you after this one though, you're making my brain hurt with all the convoluted rulings I'm having to figure out.

What's wrong with rogues demanding an equal share of the loot? Loot distribution should be a vacuum to some extent not taking class features into account, we do that with every other class so why not rogues? A slight variant on all of this would be to expect mystic knight's to forgo gold because they happened to roll a few enchants during the battle and therefor don't need the gold, weapons, SP granting equipment because they've already upgraded their equipment.

Simply put: a rogue who earns a lot of gold during a battle demanda to get the same share of the gold loot as the ranger, cleric, mage, etc, who had earned no gold during the battle. Sheesh. Really. Its just not ethical. The ranger, cleric, etc, gets nothing out of the battle but the loot. The rogue who reaps huge amounts of gold is getting doubleor more.

Another example which keeps getting brought up is Enchantment of the Mystic Knight - fine. So they won't be getting any high leveled weapons from the loot selection. This really has little to do with the gold loot issue.

Mystic Knights pay for their enchants, Rogues do not pay for the gold they earn.

In the end, party leaders have the last say and we can leave it like that. It would be fun to have different factions with some common party leaders looking down on the rogues and others being more fair as far as the loot is concerned. That way rogues will have a chance to be bitter against party leaders and lead to some more PvP which we all enjoy.

I love how Arthur is flipping through the negative effects several times in one round. It's enough to drive anyone crazy.

[Endgame]

One thing I'd like to add to this discussion: Gold earning is the Rogue's main ability - their appeal, their niche. To deny them gold in the distribution to balance it out kind of just defeats the purpose, in my opinion.